BBK vs BBK opinions needed

[belinko]

OK, I'd like to get some opinions on some BBK's for track, autocross and daily driving.

Any pros or cons to any of the following options or added benifits, such as ease of use/swapping pads, maintenance, etc. Also note I'd be upgrading the rears as well.

Alcon's, Brembo's, AP racing, Stop Tech, Willwood, BAER, etc.

I'd like to hear/read some justification for a particular brand vs the other.

TIA

[EBG 18T]

Stick with the Alcon/Stasis, Stoptech, Brembo or AP kits. Personally i have and like the Stoptech kit. There are a ton of pad options and the pads are easy to swap at the track.

[belinko]

Do you like your stoptechs? Would you buy a different kit/brand.


Also, how are you liking your Track Sports? What spring rates did you go with? Do you use this car as a daily driver?

[jeremy@matrix]

OK, I'd like to get some opinions on some BBK's for track, autocross and daily driving.

Any pros or cons to any of the following options or added benifits, such as ease of use/swapping pads, maintenance, etc. Also note I'd be upgrading the rears as well.

Alcon's, Brembo's, AP racing, Stop Tech, Willwood, BAER, etc.

I'd like to hear/read some justification for a particular brand vs the other.

TIA

We've had great success with STaSIS/Alcon (as well as Brembo). We like how STaSIS' kits are uniquely tailored to Audi's by an Audi race team.

STaSIS/Alcon brake attributes
-F1 derived calipers and rotors, using the most recent and advanced technology found in motorsports today.
-These same Alcon components are used by the top race teams worldwide; touring car, LeMans, NASCAR, WRC, etc. "Other" components are used on few SCCA World Challenge cars, however, these teams are PAID to run the kits on their vehicles.

CALIPERS
-Alcon Monobloc calipers--1pc. There is no bridge like other many calipers have which translates into maximum strength and rigidity, less flex, excellent pedal feel and repeatability.
-Very trick beveled edge (ultra-high resilience) piston seals minimize piston retraction distance, again offering excellent pedal feel. (Other's have a single seal which can melt after a hard track day. Other's pedal feel is more on/off since their tolerances aren't as close).
-Differential piston bores balance the pad force and temperature gradient resulting in better clamping force and longer pad life.
-Made in England, the center of the motorsport world (Other's components are made overseas in Asia---quality is not as high, which can result in a leaky caliper---we see numerous local clients with this issue all the time).

ROTORS
- High nickel content (optimizes pad-rotor interface so less chance of pad deposits/”warping” sensation) (Other's rotor metallurgy is poorer which results in a less porous rotor and one more liable to produce pad deposits/“warping” sensation).
-Alcon's proprietary casting and machining processes produce consistent, tight tolerances, ensuring repeatable performance.
-Patented crescent-shaped segmented slots eliminate pedal feel pulsations, increase grip and enhance gas relief (yes, cross-drilled rotors will crack over time).
-252 vane full floating, race quality rotor has a revolutionary vane design that moves 14% more air than conventional rotors resulting in superior cooling performance. This rotor also has a thinner annulus (height from inside edge of rotor where rotor-hat meet to outside edge) which translates into a rotor ideal for intense braking that is lightweight and extremely durable, offers better wear, and is more reliable(less prone to cracking/heat fatigue) since there is less temperature difference across it.
-Alcon rotors are heat treated twice so they're more thermally stable.
-Narrower setup(more compact, tighter tolerances) for better fit with more wheels.

Let us know if we can help at all.

[belinko]

Jeremy,

This was the type of info I was looking. Technical and informative, just the way I like it.

Thank you very much for the insight.

[jeremy@matrix]

Jeremy,

This was the type of info I was looking. Technical and informative, just the way I like it.

Thank you very much for the insight.

You're very welcome.

[EBG 18T]

Do you like your stoptechs? Would you buy a different kit/brand.


Also, how are you liking your Track Sports? What spring rates did you go with? Do you use this car as a daily driver?

I am very happy with the Stoptechs. I would recommend them to anyone. I chose the stoptechs over the STaSIS/Alcons for 2 reasons. 1. They were a little less $$, 2. Stoptech (st-40 caliper) uses a very common pad shape which made sourcing pads very easy. The STaSIS/Alcons are excellent and i would run them if i could have found a good deal at the time.

The tracksports are great. This is my daily driver and after 2 sets of springs i settled on 750#F & 1100#R springs. I do 2-3 HDPE's a year and a couple auto-x's so i wanted a nice balance. If you can afford the motorsports they are smoother and more supple than the tracksports, the new ohlin sl is also slightly more supple than my tracksports.

I just installed a set of H-Sport RS4 sways (35mm front bar & 29mm rear bar). These are flattening out the ride even more and pushing it to the next level.. These might be a tad of overkill for a daily driver, but i am hoping they give me a tad less roll at the track.

[2PUTT]

keep in mind that the StopTech BBK is one of the easiest calipers to replace pads with. i love my ST-40 StopTechs. i really like all the different pad options they offer for it.

[jeremy@matrix]

keep in mind that the StopTech BBK is one of the easiest calipers to replace pads with. i love my ST-40 StopTechs. i really like all the different pad options they offer for it.

Yes, Stoptech's are pretty quick being toploading calipers but we've actually found that we can replace pads quicker on the Alcon (STaSIS) calipers simply because the Alcon's use 2 big allen fasteners whereas the Stoptech caliper uses 2 to 4 small fasteners that seem to strip out easier.

[HighDesertAudi]

I'll tell you in a couple weeks:




Jeremy: I thought Porsche (Brembo) Monoblocs were 1-piece?

[RicA4B6]

Hey Jeremy, does Alcon sell 345mm rotors for B7 S4?

[jeremy@matrix]

I'll tell you in a couple weeks:




Jeremy: I thought Porsche (Brembo) Monoblocs were 1-piece?

From which application?

[jeremy@matrix]

Hey Jeremy, does Alcon sell 345mm rotors for B7 S4?

Do you mean replacement rotors for a factory B7 S4 caliper?

[HighDesertAudi]

Mine are 996's/Boxster S which are monoblocs, but it looks like ECS uses the old 993TT calipers that have the same dimensions but are two-pieces.


The 6-piston calipers from ECS look to be monoblocs though.

[Maverick]

Jeremy, I have 17" OZ superleggeras on my B6 A4, will a StaSIS setup fit?

[jeremy@matrix]

Jeremy, I have 17" OZ superleggeras on my B6 A4, will a StaSIS setup fit?

When running a 17" wheel, you can run a 13" BBK;

STaSIS TrackSport 13" Mono4 front brake kit for B5/B6/B7 A4/S4/A6/AR 2.7T; 2 Alcon Monobloc 4-piston calipers, 2 13" x 32mm Alcon directionally vented/gas slotted floating rotors, 2 STaSIS directionally vented mounting hats, 2 STaSIS caliper mounting brackets and hardware, SBS Pro-Intermediate/Track high performance brake pads, Goodridge braided/coated stainless steel brake lines (front only), Motul 5.1 high performance brake fluid

[2PUTT]

here is the other reason why i decided with StopTechs (their patents)...trust me, i like the Alcons, myself, but the overall value and the research pointed me towards my StopTech ST-40...

http://www.stoptech.com/proven_technology/patents.shtml

[RicA4B6]

Yes, replacement rotors for B7 S4 calipers (345mm)

[blur510]

2PUTT What do you use for the rear? stock? or does stop tech have the same rotor option like stasis?

[2PUTT]

2PUTT What do you use for the rear? stock? or does stop tech have the same rotor option like stasis?

i just have stock rotors for the rears with Centric (company that owns StopTech) pads and SS lines.

i do noth thiink StopTech has a rear option. most of the rear option i looked into deletes the E-brake. i read that there is a company out there that sells an E-brake option. i believe Brembo has a rear set as well.

[jeremy@matrix]

I'll keep my mouth shut regarding patents...


http://www.alcon.co.uk/heritage.htm

"In the world of motorsport, we are a Technical Partner to the Honda F1 Racing Team, supplying brake calipers of a patented design; while co-operating with a number of other teams to develop the next generation of F1 braking systems. We have also provided all the brake hardware to support Citroën’s and Sebastien Loeb’s dominance of the World Rally Championship [WRC] in recent years.

In the US, every IRL title since 2003 has been won using Alcon brakes, and our product is specified as mandatory for the hard-braking road course races. In the world of NASCAR, we are proud to count Penske, Hendrick Motorsport and Ray Evernham Motorsport amongst our front-running customers.

Elsewhere, we are proud to be the official supplier of brakes to the Australian V8 Supercar Series, and to have been part of Dome’s successful bid for the 2007 Japanese GT500 championship. Furthermore, the motorsport departments within Audi, BMW, Ford, Peugeot, Renault and Volkswagen all count amongst our valued customers.

In the field of specialist and performance road cars we serve an impressive list of prestigious road car manufacturers, including Audi, Bentley, Brabus, Jaguar and Land Rover. In this field too, our reputation for technology and innovation is highly visible, no more so than the calipers for the 2006 Bentley Continental GT Diamond Series, vast but lightweight 8-piston calipers designed specifically to clamp the world’s largest road car brake discs, ceramic items of 420mm diameter."

How you like them apples?

STaSIS/Alcon rear BBK's don't delete the e-brake functionality.

[jeremy@matrix]

Yes, replacement rotors for B7 S4 calipers (345mm)

Sorry, nothing available and nothing in the pipeline I'm afraid.

[Jurjen]

any thoughts on b7 rs4 calipers on a b5 s4?

[jeremy@matrix]

any thoughts on b7 rs4 calipers on a b5 s4?

Anything can be made to fit but doesn't mean it's been engineered well for your master cylinder and all.

[Jurjen]

Anything can be made to fit but doesn't mean it's been engineered well for your master cylinder and all.

Well im more concerned about how it functions, pedal feel etc.

Is there a way to check (before i go out and track down a set of used b7 rs4 calipers) if a B5 S4 master cyclinder is up to the job? There must be a rating system of some sort...

[jeremy@matrix]

Well im more concerned about how it functions, pedal feel etc.

Is there a way to check (before i go out and track down a set of used b7 rs4 calipers) if a B5 S4 master cyclinder is up to the job? There must be a rating system of some sort...

There is no rating system. I'd recommend a professional automotive engineer spec it out for you (one of STaSIS' engineers is an ex-Porsche Motorsport engineer).

[JK35]

I found a chart which compares stock - S4 - RS4 - Brembo - AP - Alcon - Stoptech (and a few others)
This chart had stopping distances, dimensions and all sorts of techinical details... I cannot find this again for the life of me! Does anyone know where such a chart can be found?
This would be helpful to quite a few AZ'ers from the sound of it!

[NYSpeedRacer]

Definitely keep me updated on the Porsche caliper conversion. I got two sets of 996 C2 calipers in my garage from my Porsche days...

[Tugboatguy]

Anything can be made to fit but doesn't mean it's been engineered well for your master cylinder and all.

Well if the RS4 units won't work well with his master cylinder , He'd have the same problem with the other BBK units as well , yes????? They are all multi piston units, if his master cyl moves enough brake fluid for the other brands of BBK's then the RS4's should work.Someone has to have done this upgrade before? Hello , input people ? I am considering using the RS4's on my 07 S4 and I called my stealership and asked the service dept if my master cyl was up to the conversion but could not get a strait answer from them .As to whether the RS4's are a good choice , there seems to be a lot of disagrement in several of the posts I've read.

[jeremy@matrix]

Well if the RS4 units won't work well with his master cylinder , He'd have the same problem with the other BBK units as well , yes????? They are all multi piston units, if his master cyl moves enough brake fluid for the other brands of BBK's then the RS4's should work.Someone has to have done this upgrade before? Hello , input people ? I am considering using the RS4's on my 07 S4 and I called my stealership and asked the service dept if my master cyl was up to the conversion but could not get a strait answer from them .As to whether the RS4's are a good choice , there seems to be a lot of disagrement in several of the posts I've read.

Not exactly. What's the piston size/volume of the RS4 caliper vs an Alcon (or Brembo, Stoptech, etc) caliper?

Moreover, B7 RS4 front calipers are 8pots (Ceramics are 6pots)--STaSIS doesn't recommend running 6pots+ on A4's with their Alcon kits (due to the A4's smaller master cyl).

[Tugboatguy]

Not exactly. What's the piston size/volume of the RS4 caliper vs an Alcon (or Brembo, Stoptech, etc) caliper?

Moreover, B7 RS4 front calipers are 6pots which STaSIS doesn't recommend running on A4's with their Alcon kits (due to the A4's smaller master cyl).

Thanks .

[vwong]

Moreover, B7 RS4 front calipers are 6pots...

Aren't the B7 RS4 front calipers 8-piston Brembo?

[jeremy@matrix]

Aren't the B7 RS4 front calipers 8-piston Brembo?

Sorry, I was talking about Ceramic's (being 6pots).

Non-ceramic's are 8pots, yes.

[2PUTT]

i read this little tidbit...2007 event at LR. just sharing some info. no ill intentions...just sharing. peace.

After checking out the fancy cars in the parking lot, we wandered down to the paddock area to meet up with friends and check out the race cars to see who was running our brakes. StopTech brakes could be found all over the place. Of course Turner Motorsport's cars all had them. But a set of StopTech brakes showed up in an unexpected spot. The Stasis team uses their own Alcon-based brakes, which they sell in competition with StopTech. However, Dino Crescentini started the year as one of their drivers and, since he's a co-owner of Centric Parts - the parent company of StopTech, his car was equipped with his favorite brakes. Of course, it would be politically incorrect for the StopTech logo to adorn the brakes and body of a Stasis race car. So "Centric" and "Posi Quiet" (Centric's brake pad brand) logos appear on the car and the StopTech brake calipers have no logos at all.

[Jason@PenskeAudi]

And here is a little tidbit I read, from this past Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street Car Challenge...

Serious stoppers can go from 80mph to zero in under 200 feet and an unprecedented six out of 10 competitors managed to pull this off. The shock was who came out on top. To our surprise, it wasn't the StopTech car, which only managed to finish in fourth place at 195 feet.

Steve Ruiz's crew had a reasonable explanation, though. A paltry three stops was not enough to get the 'Vette's massive Pilot Sport Cup tires up to temperature. And everyone knows brakes don't stop a car, tires do.

Still, three other cars managed to stop significantly shorter and it was hard to figure out which was most impressive. Both of the heavy, all-wheel-drivers beat the Z06 by over 20 feet, but Mortara gave high points to the Audi, which was in his mind, the most 'stock-like' in terms of feel and performance.

The "Audi" is the Torque Factory/Jeff Moss B5S4 running...you guessed it, Alcons.

[Papachristou]

although im no brake expert, i do know a lot of performance has to do with your tires but forget about all that... i do like stoptechs for the money... most of us dont need or use a BBK to performance levels beyond what our tires can do anyway... if i had the extra $1500 or whatever it is to do a full alcon setup with rears i would do it..

i just wished alcons came in RED! im either going to do a alcon 328mm 4 pot with their rear setup or a stoptech with s4 rear rotors/calipers

[jeremy@matrix]

i read this little tidbit...2007 event at LR. just sharing some info. no ill intentions...just sharing. peace.

After checking out the fancy cars in the parking lot, we wandered down to the paddock area to meet up with friends and check out the race cars to see who was running our brakes. StopTech brakes could be found all over the place. Of course Turner Motorsport's cars all had them. But a set of StopTech brakes showed up in an unexpected spot. The Stasis team uses their own Alcon-based brakes, which they sell in competition with StopTech. However, Dino Crescentini started the year as one of their drivers and, since he's a co-owner of Centric Parts - the parent company of StopTech, his car was equipped with his favorite brakes. Of course, it would be politically incorrect for the StopTech logo to adorn the brakes and body of a Stasis race car. So "Centric" and "Posi Quiet" (Centric's brake pad brand) logos appear on the car and the StopTech brake calipers have no logos at all.

Yes, Turner is supposedly paid to run Stoptech's.

Since all the drivers pay to drive, they can really run whatever they want(in Dino's instance "his" brakes promoting "his" logos). Just because someone is running one brand or another doesn't mean it's the best--I know that can go both ways.

Stoptech's are suitable for the money...do we feel there are better brakes out there for a bit more? Yes.

Peace.

[jeremy@matrix]

And here is a little tidbit I read, from this past Sport Compact Car Ultimate Street Car Challenge...

Serious stoppers can go from 80mph to zero in under 200 feet and an unprecedented six out of 10 competitors managed to pull this off. The shock was who came out on top. To our surprise, it wasn't the StopTech car, which only managed to finish in fourth place at 195 feet.

Steve Ruiz's crew had a reasonable explanation, though. A paltry three stops was not enough to get the 'Vette's massive Pilot Sport Cup tires up to temperature. And everyone knows brakes don't stop a car, tires do.

Still, three other cars managed to stop significantly shorter and it was hard to figure out which was most impressive. Both of the heavy, all-wheel-drivers beat the Z06 by over 20 feet, but Mortara gave high points to the Audi, which was in his mind, the most 'stock-like' in terms of feel and performance.

The "Audi" is the Torque Factory/Jeff Moss B5S4 running...you guessed it, Alcons.

Woot!

[jeremy@matrix]

although im no brake expert, i do know a lot of performance has to do with your tires but forget about all that... i do like stoptechs for the money... most of us dont need or use a BBK to performance levels beyond what our tires can do anyway... if i had the extra $1500 or whatever it is to do a full alcon setup with rears i would do it..

i just wished alcons came in RED! im either going to do a alcon 328mm 4 pot with their rear setup or a stoptech with s4 rear rotors/calipers

You can always powdercoat them. It's what we've done for a few select clients.

[Papachristou]

do you have any pics of them in red with white lettering?