TiAl Sport R650 kit

[Tapp]

Here are some videos from the track today, full weight 2000 s4.
The engine was completely stock besides a rod upgrade (for safety)
Stock Y pipe, manifolds, ER intercoolers and a 3" exhaust.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nKqfN5BbJ58

[Wizard-of-OD]

Here are some videos from the track today, full weight 2000 s4.
The engine was completely stock besides a rod upgrade (for safety)
Stock Y pipe, manifolds, ER intercoolers and a 3" exhaust.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nKqfN5BbJ58

Very nice Chris

[AMC]

Here are some videos from the track today, full weight 2000 s4.
The engine was completely stock besides a rod upgrade (for safety)
Stock Y pipe, manifolds, ER intercoolers and a 3" exhaust.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=nKqfN5BbJ58

it says full weight a4

[Wizard-of-OD]

it says full weight a4

It is a typo,the vehicle is a B5 S4.

[AMC]

well then thats a pretty good time...how much does this kit cost

[panix73]

11.55 at 126.98. Impressive. Stock exhaust manifolds? How much boost were you running?

Hate to be the guy asking, but can you please post some logs?

[MiniRS4]

woo hoo... nice times. good work Chris and Johnny!

[Tapp]

Yes, stock exhaust manifolds, stock Y pipe, stock everything except injectors (630's), fuel pump, Er intercoolers, the R650 turbo's with their inlet pipes, and the clutch. I think that's it.

[Tapp]

About 26 psi.

[Tapp]

with more boost and race gas these turbos should put one of these cars in the 10's at something near full weight, someone else will have to do that though :0

[panix73]

with more boost and race gas these turbos should put one of these cars in the 10's at something near full weight, someone else will have to do that though :0

Why not push the turbos further? You have forged rods.

[panix73]

Reliability to minimize compression issues with the stock head gaskets? I don't get it.

[sCeRaXn]

Why does it really matter? Its his car and thats what he chose to go with.

Good runs man. Form all the shit ive read on here youd think that those turbos werent worth a damn...looks like youve thrown that idea out the window lol.

[AB18]

Was this done on a stock exhaust and downpipes? If so, even more impressive. Great runs man.

[panix73]

Why does it really matter? Its his car and thats what he chose to go with.

I'm curious because I enjoy learning. If running more than 26psi on stock 9.3:1 compression ratio means that it's putting too much stress on the heads, cylinder walls, and resulting to a blown head gasket or fried piston rings, then thats something I would like to know. Knowledge is key my friend. The more we learn, the further the progression line extends.

[ms4cd]

Who's tune is this? 034?

[sCeRaXn]

Youre right, knowledge is key. You just came off as pompous with the way you "asked". To answer part of your question...boost alone doesnt blow motors. The ductile iron that most sleeves are made of can withstand 20 times the amount of pressure well ever throw at them. Head lift(which causes most blown headgaskets) can be a concern, but this shouldnt be a problem, and if it is then aftermarket headstuds would be an easy fix. As far as rings go, with a good tune theyll be fine. Ive never seen ring failure because of pressure.

I would guess that they chose 26psi because thats what the car liked when they tuned it. I dont know the specs on these turbos, but i cant imagine them being very effecient if you push them much harder.

[NYCVR6]

Hell i ran [email protected] with my k04's haha Just joking around, this tial kit is looking like a real promising option. Good work fellas.

[generationjdm]

Nice run, didn't you have the exhaust off the car so how could you say 3 inch exhaust? What dps where on the car and do you have meth also? stock 2.7 cams, untouched intake manifold, zero head work, stock dps etc? Also can you post logs from the run at the track? What did you do different to pick up almost 5mph from 1 run to the next? WOW I'm shocked we didn't here Jays car went 130 on k04ss like we usually do in gt threads haha

[GURUMAN]

Who's tune is this? 034?

I guess your joking right ?

Tapp auto, eurodyne is posting this...

Why 034 ?

Eurodyne is capable of doing a lot of thing with the me7.

Autoextrem 1.8t did like over 620 at the wheels with a custom Eurodyne tune.

[Wizard-of-OD]

I guess your joking right ?

Tapp auto, eurodyne is posting this...

Why 034 ?

Eurodyne is capable of doing a lot of thing with the me7.

Autoextrem 1.8t did like over 620 at the wheels with a custom Eurodyne tune.

Thanks Dom,
was about to say
Tapp = Chris Tapp of Eurodyne.

[2001S4NY]

Whats the IDC at redline? also 630cc@4bar?

[GURUMAN]

Thanks Dom,
was about to say
Tapp = Chris Tapp of Eurodyne.

Nothing against you , bro.

I have too much 034 goodies

[Skydive@AI]

Sweet, Chris!

My car will be back together shortly, so we can continue to tune my kit accordingly.

My understanding is that this car is stock with the exception of exhaust, intercoolers, rods, clutch and fueliing. (At first, it sounds like open downpipes, but the lumpy idle continues, so it's clearly ambient sound from another car, correct?)

Anyway, 11.5@126mph on pump with only basic mods is impressive!

-Michael.

[AudiXS4X01]

Sweet, Chris!

My car will be back together shortly, so we can continue to tune my kit accordingly.

My understanding is that this car is stock with the exception of exhaust, intercoolers, rods, clutch and fueliing. (At first, it sounds like open downpipes, but the lumpy idle continues, so it's clearly ambient sound from another car, correct?)

Anyway, 11.5@126mph on pump with only basic mods is impressive!

-Michael.

how do you figure this car only has basic mods? It has twin Garrett ball bearing turbos, built motor (aftermarket rods, etc)., and the luxury of unlimited custom, in-house dyno tuning since Chris Tapp owns his own Mustang Dyno.

[AudiA4_20T]

how do you figure this car only has basic mods? It has twin Garrett ball bearing turbos, built motor (aftermarket rods, etc)., and the luxury of unlimited custom, in-house dyno tuning since Chris Tapp owns his own Mustang Dyno.

yea but stock manifolds and such. and the tune will be available from Tapp for anyone who wants it

[Skydive@AI]

how do you figure this car only has basic mods? It has twin Garrett ball bearing turbos, built motor (aftermarket rods, etc)., and the luxury of unlimited custom, in-house dyno tuning since Chris Tapp owns his own Mustang Dyno.

Well...

1) Tapp/Eurodyne is among the three or four tuners that are developing code for this kit, and the code is being offered for sale. There's no more development time in it than there would be in an off-the-shelf kit.

2) The only internals that are other than stock are the rods, and those were done because stock rods have been known to fail at 500 horsepower. The car would not be significantly "less fast" on stock rods, but it might not last very long.

3) The car is running stock heads, stock compression, stock cams, stock intake manifold, stock exhaust manifolds, and stock (possibly gutted pre-cats?) downpipes. There's no water injection or ancillary mods present on many other big power cars. I believe fueling consists of the X-1 intake, 85mm MAF housing, 60# Injectors, an 044 Fuel Pump, and Chris' tune.

...so in relative terms, the mods are basic ones. The car was run at full weight, on pump gas, and street tires.

-Michael.

[AudiXS4X01]

yea but stock manifolds and such. and the tune will be available from Tapp for anyone who wants it

I realize that, but then it's no longer a custom tune. Every car is different, that's what makes a custom tune a custom tune -- it's custom to that specific car

[AudiXS4X01]

Well...

1) Tapp/Eurodyne is among the three or four tuners that are developing code for this kit, and the code is being offered for sale. There's no more development time in it than there would be in an off-the-shelf kit.

2) The only internals that are other than stock are the rods, and those were done because stock rods have been known to fail at 500 horsepower. The car would not be significantly "less fast" on stock rods, but it might not last very long.

3) The car is running stock heads, stock compression, stock cams, stock intake manifold, stock exhaust manifolds, and stock (possibly gutted pre-cats?) downpipes. There's no water injection or ancillary mods present on many other big power cars. I believe fueling consists of the X-1 intake, 85mm MAF housing, 60# Injectors, an 044 Fuel Pump, and Chris' tune.

...so in relative terms, the mods are basic ones. The car was run at full weight, on pump gas, and street tires.

-Michael.

I agree with everything you just said, but I still think a car with Garrett turbos and a built motor should be faster than a K04 S4. This guy on Youtube just ran 11.3@127 with K04 hybrids. That's two tenths quicker than the Tial car. It was on race gas, but was full weight with street tires. In order for the price of the Tial kit to be justified, I think it has to be considerably quicker on pump gas than what K04/hybrid, stock bottom ends S4s run on race gas, not 2 tenths slower! Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KODTV9kEl4

[lil' is 300]

TwinPSI doesn't have your average K04/RS6 hybrids. He has full RS6 CHRA stuffed into a RS4 compressor and turbine housing...both compressor and turbine wheel are larger than RS4 K04.

[AudiXS4X01]

TwinPSI doesn't have your average K04/RS6 hybrids. He has full RS6 CHRA stuffed into a RS4 compressor and turbine housing...both compressor and turbine wheel are larger than RS4 K04.

Yes but others have also gone low to mid 11's with K04 hybrids or even regular K04s. Look at NYCVR6 above, he has trapped 125-126, very close to the Tial GT car which also has a built bottom end. If I'm not mistaken JHM has gone 11.1@130 with plain jane K04 turbos!

[Skydive@AI]

I agree with everything you just said, but I still think a car with Garrett turbos and a built motor should be faster than a K04 S4. This guy on Youtube just ran 11.3@127 with K04 hybrids. That's two tenths quicker than the Tial car. It was on race gas, but was full weight with street tires. In order for the price of the Tial kit to be justified, I think it has to be considerably quicker on pump gas than what K04/hybrid, stock bottom ends S4s run on race gas, not 2 tenths slower!

What built motor? Chris' car has rods in it, which don't don't directly extend its power potential. They merely protect the motor from itself. Pistons, crank, and head gaskets are all stock, as is the compression ratio, so in terms of "built" bottom ends, this one isn't benefiting from lower compression ratio as would a truly built motor.

If and when a race gas profile is done, I'm certain you'll see middle to low 10s from this car, and you'll have an apples-to-apples comparison. With race gas, one can increase both boost and timing, and lower compression which are considerable factors, given the potential for detonation on pump gas. These turbos can flow in excess of 32 PSI easily. Chris has them tuned for 26 PSI so as not to kill his motor.

Can I ask, (because I really don't know), how fast is the fastest K04 car on pump gas?

-Michael

[lil' is 300]

Yes but others have also gone low to mid 11's with K04 hybrids or even regular K04s. Look at NYCVR6 above, he has trapped 125-126, very close to the Tial GT car which also has a built bottom end. If I'm not mistaken JHM has gone 11.1@130 with plain jane K04 turbos!

Jay has an unobtainable tune which has been revised dozens of times for his own car and he has spent thousands and thousands of dollars on RS4 bolt ons (cams, rs4 manifold, tbb, pipes, rail, porting heads etc...). Last time I checked, forged rods cost a lot less than those RS4 bits. Justin ran a good time as well, but he had K04/RS6 hybrids...both were on race gas.

Also...Justin ditched his hybrids for GTs.

[generationjdm]

There a little different then garrett turbos, the exhaust side is smaller for starters... I really didn't see any exhaust sticking out of the rear of the car, and I seriously doubt the car has pre-cats..

The weak link of the motor is the rods, so the motor is built bottom line..

When he says approximately 26lbs of boost does that mean 29lbs tapering to 26 just like in the dyno charts? Sure is a lot of boost on regular pump gas?

[Reich]

Wow Great job. Not too much mod in this car and it runs fast.

[generationjdm]

Yes but others have also gone low to mid 11's with K04 hybrids or even regular K04s. Look at NYCVR6 above, he has trapped 125-126, very close to the Tial GT car which also has a built bottom end. If I'm not mistaken JHM has gone 11.1@130 with plain jane K04 turbos!

Tracks play a huge roll in why some of these cars did what they did..

[Skydive@AI]

Tracks play a huge roll in why some of these cars did what they did..

That's certainly true, as does driver experience.

Wow! Mark this date in history! You and I agree on something!

-Michael.

[generationjdm]

That's certainly true, as does driver experience.

Wow! Mark this date in history! You and I agree on something!

-Michael.

We actually agree on more then you might realize

[AudiXS4X01]

What built motor? Chris' car has rods in it, which don't don't directly extend its power potential. They merely protect the motor from itself. Pistons, crank, and head gaskets are all stock, as is the compression ratio, so in terms of "built" bottom ends, this one isn't benefiting from lower compression ratio as would a truly built motor.

If and when a race gas profile is done, I'm certain you'll see middle to low 10s from this car, and you'll have an apples-to-apples comparison. With race gas, one can increase both boost and timing, and lower compression which are considerable factors, given the potential for detonation on pump gas. These turbos can flow in excess of 32 PSI easily. Chris has them tuned for 26 PSI so as not to kill his motor.

Can I ask, (because I really don't know), how fast is the fastest K04 car on pump gas?

-Michael

Since the stock rods are notorious for being the weak link of the S4 motor, I think it's suffice to say that by installing stronger rods, you have a built motor. You need not drop the compression ratio to have a built motor.

Nobody is saying the rods are making the car faster. Semantics aside, the point here is the car does not have basic mods like what was originally stated in the thread. Aftermarket rods cost a pretty penny, not to mention the labor and/or machine work involved for your "regular" enthusiast. This is something that needs to be considered when comparing it to other setups.

It's pretty far fetched to say his car will drop more than a full second off his ET with a race gas tune. 3-5 tenths is more realistic.

It should be interesting to see how this kit works out as the turbos are pushed harder and harder. I know ATP went through quite a few motors trying to achieve success with their stock manifold, bolt-on GT turbos. The rumor at the time was that the stock exhaust manifolds were to blame, but I'm not sure I buy into that theory.

I'm not sure what the fastest K04 car is on pump gas. It seems like all the guys who push those cars hard are always running race gas. Either way, a Tial GT car with rods should annihiliate a K04 car, no matter what octane is in each car. IMO of course.

[AudiXS4X01]

Jay has an unobtainable tune which has been revised dozens of times for his own car and he has spent thousands and thousands of dollars on RS4 bolt ons (cams, rs4 manifold, tbb, pipes, rail, porting heads etc...). Last time I checked, forged rods cost a lot less than those RS4 bits. Justin ran a good time as well, but he had K04/RS6 hybrids...both were on race gas.

Also...Justin ditched his hybrids for GTs.

How is a tune "unobtainable?" Can't anyone get an aggressive tune by going to any number of shops who are currently custom tuning the S4?

What about Brent's S4? Plain Jane K04s, completely stock motor, stock manifolds, etc. and it ran 11.4 at something like 3,000 feet during the Euro Tuner event at LACR a few years back.

I want to see a GT car go 10's with a full interior and pump gas. If you're spending the money on GT turbos, bulletproof rods, etc., I think those ETs should be attainable.