10 Sec automatic S4?

[fifapl16]

Has anyone ever seen a 10sec automatic s4? Videos? If it can be done what are the must have modifications? What is the fastest automatic s4 anyone has seen? Help me settle a bet. Searched the forum but could not find an answer.

[lrg8683]

what side of the bet did you take?. must have modifications are stage 3 tweaked.. stripped car, and a 6 spd. transmission.

[fifapl16]

told him no way hes convinced it can be done

[AMC]

what side of the bet did you take?. must have modifications are stage 3 tweaked.. stripped car, and a 6 spd. transmission.

hope your bet was against teh tip 10 second s4 lmao

the title for this thread isnt what i thought it was lol

[Turtle]

^^^^ my thoughts exactly

[saucys4]

If it can be done what are the must have modifications?

A fully gutted car with a THM400 transmission and a 2JZ-GTE engine swap with a T88H coupled with a turbonator.

[Overboostin]

^^^^ my thoughts exactly

^^ well good sirs, your thoughts were exactly my thoughts. hmmmm yes



quite.

[S4-ORCE]

anything is possible

[lil' is 300]

anything is possible

...even unicorns...

[fastdreams]

tip development isn't there yet, and the cost to build the engine to run 10's in a full weight S4 would be ludicrous.

Can it be done? Of course it can, with enough money, ingenuity, desire, etc.

It hasn't been done because, why would you? There are better ways to 10 seconds, and most of them do not involve the S4. I guess if you have plenty of money to burn and gobs of engineering and race tech experience on your side then go for it.

[ThirdStrike]

There are better ways to 10 seconds, and most of them do not involve the tiptronic S4.

fixed it for ya

[Iosilver]

a S4 tip with ludicrous speed thats some spaceballs S%$^

[Skydive@AI]

Errrmmm...

My Tip S4 is likely the fastest one there is at the moment, though I don't have any data because the transmission is currently tits up. I don't think my car is in the tens yet, but it *may* see high tens at some point, if I can make the drivetrain standup. When the 5HP19FLA dropped the 4-5 clutchpack, I looked very seriously at trying to use a 5HP24FLA instead, but decided that, given bellhousing fitment issues, it would have taken a lot more work than is "reasonable". (Of course, none of the other things I have done to the car in the past 3 years have been reasonable either.) So, I am sending the broken 5HP19FLA to 517 Transmission with an observer, to be rebuilt and improved. (It was the second one ever done by Level10 a few years ago). I'm fairly sure that aside from the transmission, the car could be made to run high tens. We were in the process of road tuning it when the transmission shit the bed. The mod-list is as follows...

1. Custom Tuned ME7 ECM (CT Base Code)
2. 517 5HP19FLA Automanual Transmission
3. VAST Transmission Control Code
4. 18x8.5 TRMotorsport MT1 Wheels in Falken Azenis RT-615 (255x40x18)
5. Stasis/Ohlins Motorsport Suspension (700/800)
6. Hotchkis Front and Rear Swaybars
7. Stasis/Alcon 14” Tracksport Brakes
8. AMS Ported, Polished, Valved Cylinder Heads
9. X-1/AEM Dryflow Intake
10. RS4 Intake Cams
11. RS4 Pistons
12. Cunningham I-Beam Rods
13. Evolution Racewerks Intercoolers
14. APR BiPipe
15. APR R1 Diverter Valves
16. RS4 Y Pipe
17. AMS Poly Snub Mount
18. ASP Motormounts
19. ASP Drivetrain Stabilizer
20. Aquamist 2D Charge Air Cooling System
21. TiAL-Bravo R650 GT series Ball Bearing Turbochargers
22. Milltek Downpipes
23. AWE Twin2 Exhaust System
24. TiAL-Bravo Mass Airflow Sensor Housing
25. Siemens 60lb. Fuel Injectors
26. RS4 Fuel Pump
27. RS4 Interior
28. RNS-E Navigation System w/OE Bluetooth
29. ADR Valentine One Radar Detector Integration
30. APR/PLX Boost/AFR Gauge
31. RS4 Front Bumper

-Michael.

[TonyD]

Skydive, can I see your car sometime? I live in Westlake Village.

[saucys4]

you seriously have the r650 kit? umm kay?

[lil' is 300]

Skydive - the reason people doubt a 10 second TIP is because of the same problems you're encountering now with your own set up. At stage 3, TIPS are a headache...GT's are just asking for trouble (as you can see...)

[goohead]

Hey skydive, its Bin we talked briefly via email about 517 rebuilt, I have their torque converter in my car now and also blew the e clutch holding 4 abd 5th gear on asp's overbossting ass software. Anyways so your going ahead with the build? I have yet to contact sam, due to my schedule, but I'm either going to do the same or rebuild it myself using ipt's diy kit, but I been posting on ipt's forum on here with no reply to my questions. So can you post or pm me the price from sam for the rebuild and details of the upgrade? Thanks man and good luck

[Skydive@AI]

Skydive - the reason people doubt a 10 second TIP is because of the same problems you're encountering now with your own set up. At stage 3, TIPS are a headache...GT's are just asking for trouble (as you can see...)

Can you tell me something I don't know? ;)

I was the second Stage III tiptronic in the country, and ran APR K04 code, (though it was nowhere near tens), successfully for some time before things got crazy. The only reason I ended up with GTs has to do with the fact that I am in business with the engineer who developed them at TiAL. I wouldn't do it otherwise. (...at least not until someone like me figures out what works).

I will slay this dragon. ;)

-Michael.

[Skydive@AI]

Yes sir. I do. It was the second of the production kits to be installed. (The first is in a car belonging to the first of several tuners who are developing code for the kit.)

I had the opportunity to put a couple of hundred miles on it before the transmission owned itself. It's certainly a beast, and extraordinarily drivable. It'll prove to winner for those who want a very fast S4, but want a car that doesn't exhibit excessive lag as a daily driver.

[Skydive@AI]

Skydive, can I see your car sometime? I live in Westlake Village.

Sure. PM me and I'll make arrangements. As I said, the motor is on jackstands right now as I'm in the midst of sorting out my transmission... but yes... you can visit. (It's in Canoga Park.)

[Skydive@AI]

Hey skydive, its Bin we talked briefly via email about 517 rebuilt, I have their torque converter in my car now and also blew the e clutch holding 4 abd 5th gear on asp's overbossting ass software. Anyways so your going ahead with the build? I have yet to contact sam, due to my schedule, but I'm either going to do the same or rebuild it myself using ipt's diy kit, but I been posting on ipt's forum on here with no reply to my questions. So can you post or pm me the price from sam for the rebuild and details of the upgrade? Thanks man and good luck

Bin,

I'll let you know. I'm still working that out with Sam. He is being very good to me, given my experience with Level10, and the bill of goods he sold me there three years ago.

Drop me an e-mail again.

[S4 in_lowplaces]

To bad you couldnt get the rs6 tranny to work, I really woudl have liked to see that work out.

Also, there is another TIP GT S4 coming soon, he has no tranny work what so ever (stock) ,and will be running only a TCU upgrade, Is it even possible to run JUST a TCU with out upgraded tranny parts, I would have though that clutch packs, TC, and VB would be essential. Atleast a TC, no?

Reference
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showpo...2&postcount=34

[Das General]

Don't RS6 trannys start eating hard after being RS6's get retuned/chipped?


I am sure he is putting down similar/or better numbers than a chipped RS6...

[BastardS4]

the first tials were crap, barely making k04 power.

i dont know how they are going to magic up the 100+whp needed to get into the low 11s let alone tens.

[AudiA4_20T]

Yes sir. I do. It was the second of the production kits to be installed. (The first is in a car belonging to the first of several tuners who are developing code for the kit.)

I had the opportunity to put a couple of hundred miles on it before the transmission owned itself. It's certainly a beast, and extraordinarily drivable. It'll prove to winner for those who want a very fast S4, but want a car that doesn't exhibit excessive lag as a daily driver.

where was the spool on those suckers?

[Dr. Jekyll]

the first tials were crap, barely making k04 power.

i dont know how they are going to magic up the 100+whp needed to get into the low 11s let alone tens.

Pretty easily actually. Those first TiALs were using a much larger compressor wheel than the production units and had journals bearings (production have ball bearings). Not to mention he was on stock rods, 2.8L cams (tons of lag and only start pulling above 6k), subpar home made intercoolers and a pretty crappy prelim tune. Depsite all that, he still put down K04 power. So I think a properly built and tuned car using the production turbos will easily surpass those first numbers.

[Skydive@AI]

To bad you couldnt get the rs6 tranny to work, I really woudl have liked to see that work out.

Also, there is another TIP GT S4 coming soon, he has no tranny work what so ever (stock) ,and will be running only a TCU upgrade, Is it even possible to run JUST a TCU with out upgraded tranny parts, I would have though that clutch packs, TC, and VB would be essential. Atleast a TC, no?

I'd like to have seen it work as well. It's just too much work, given location of the turbos. (In fact, there's no room for a larger bell housing and torque converter, even with K03s.)

With regard to the "TCU Only" solution... I wish the guy luck. My real world experience and that of others proves otherwise... but I do wish he was right, because my car would be running right now if he were.

-Michael.

[AudiA4_20T]

hey Skydive where is the spool?

[S4 in_lowplaces]

Don't RS6 trannys start eating hard after being RS6's get retuned/chipped?


I am sure he is putting down similar/or better numbers than a chipped RS6...

I would assume he is. I havent heard that much on the 24FLA trannys eating it, but the rs6 wieghts more than the s4, tranny is probably designed to handle the power better. Put it in the lighter car and you could possibly have a solution, and from him saying it dosent sound resonable sounds like an expensive solution (relocating turbos ). I'm sure somone will end up doing it.

[pdq 5oh]

Why would someone use 2.8 cams with turbos? Centerline would be way wrong. No wonder lag was bad, and nothing until 6K.

[Skydive@AI]

where was the spool on those suckers?

They make 14 PSI at 3200 in 3rd. (1 BAR)

They make 27 PSI at 3300 in 5th.

The production units are well sorted. Power comes on extraordinarily quickly given the fact that these turbos can be made to flow 36 PSI inside their efficiency envelope.

-Michael.

[Skydive@AI]

the first tials were crap, barely making k04 power.

i dont know how they are going to magic up the 100+whp needed to get into the low 11s let alone tens.

I believe the units you are speaking of were the very first prototypes, built at TiAL and fitted to a car in Canada over a year ago. The production turbos are completely different, and have pretty much zero in common with the prototypes you speak of.

One of the technicians at WMS, familiar with some of the quickest B5s in the country, remarked upon returning from a test drive in my car, (just before the transmission let go), that the car was REALLY fast, but he would be concerned about the transmission. The transmission died the same day.

The turbos are impressive. Level10 transmission work is not.

[Reich]

I believe the units you are speaking of were the very first prototypes, built at TiAL and fitted to a car in Canada over a year ago. The production turbos are completely different, and have pretty much zero in common with the prototypes you speak of.

One of the technicians at WMS, familiar with some of the quickest B5s in the country, remarked upon returning from a test drive in my car, (just before the transmission let go), that the car was REALLY fast, but he would be concerned about the transmission. The transmission died the same day.

The turbos are impressive. Level10 transmission work is not.

Your not the first to say l10 are not the best. Thne where else to go? IPT? 3zero3? Do you have a link for 517 transmissions?

[BastardS4]

I believe the units you are speaking of were the very first prototypes, built at TiAL and fitted to a car in Canada over a year ago. The production turbos are completely different, and have pretty much zero in common with the prototypes you speak of.

One of the technicians at WMS, familiar with some of the quickest B5s in the country, remarked upon returning from a test drive in my car, (just before the transmission let go), that the car was REALLY fast, but he would be concerned about the transmission. The transmission died the same day.

The turbos are impressive. Level10 transmission work is not.

I certainly hope so. I have been following the deveolopment for years, and i hope that the numbers are solid enough for me to give them a try.

[Skydive@AI]

Your not the first to say l10 are not the best. Thne where else to go? IPT? 3zero3? Do you have a link for 517 transmissions?

Sam at 517 is doing it for me this time around as he was the person at Level10 who I worked with the first time around. He is giving me a substantial discount this time around as compensation for Level10's "errors". (Sam is now one of two owners of 517 Transmission.) Several people have had good luck with his torque converters, and he is allowing me to have an observer present while the work is done, given my experience with Level10.

I'm not sure there is a website for 517, but I'll provide contact information via PM if you like.

Thanks,
-Michael.

[johnkent1212]

...even unicorns...

First we need to start with an 11sectip.....dibs

[Skydive@AI]

First we need to start with an 11sectip.....dibs

Pretty sure that's done...

BLK01S4 ran low twelves, and I know that drgolfnut's tip was faster.

Anyway, here's some goodies from my car, which is unofficially "much faster" than both of them, according to the WMS tech who worked on drgolfnut's car and rode in mine just before the transmission went tits up...

Johnny and I took some photos while we were over there, prepping the transmission for shipment to 517. (Sam is working with me to solve the problem, and being very good to me as one of the first adopters of Level10's not so stellar work. He is allowing me to send an observer in to witness the work.)

Anyway, here's the business end of the TiAL R650 kit, as installed by Johnny and WMS a couple of months ago, and now outside of the car again due to transmission failure...

Here you can see the inlet plumbing... Bend a single piece of stainless like that on a standard mandrel. I dare you... There are no welds to back purge. Also note the aircraft quality fittings and lines, all pre-fitted:




Here you see the downpipe flanges, compatible with the K04 downpipes of your choice... even gutted stockers if you so so desire:


Here you see the reason the motor is out for your viewing pleasure. The transmission is off to 517 Transmission, where Level10 failed:




Incidentally, the kit has a few hundred miles on it at this point, and everything is breaking in nicely. There are no signs of excessive wear, loose anything, or oil anywhere in the intercoolers or bypass valves.

-Michael.

[AudiA4_20T]

this sounds like a promising kit Id love to see some numbers

[Skydive@AI]

this sounds like a promising kit Id love to see some numbers

You and I both! Unfortunately, Level10 LevelZeroed my chance to run some numbers for you all... so it'll be a bit yet.

There are three major tuners developing code for this kit now.

[generationjdm]

Just curious how you take the valve covers off without spending all day trying to take the inlet pipes out, since there one piece? Thats the main reason why i didn't have mine bent in one piece at my buddies factory where he has 45 mandrel machines of all types...