What can I expect if I want to balance performance?

[otterski]

TO GET IT OUT THERE! 2001 A4 1.8T FWD with 92,000 miles. Yeah, I know. FWD. You can say it, but I love her.

I don't post too much here, I just read... a lot. Before you recommend the search function, believe me- I've spent my hours there and I'm not finding what I'm looking for (although I did discover how agonizing 30 seconds can be). I'm also going to let you know that I only can pretend that I know what I'm talking about...

Something I've noticed about tuning is that everyone does so with a very precise goal in mind. "I want to accelerate faster," or, "I want to take turns sharper," and, "I want to make more noise." What about those not-so-ambitious people who use their Audi to get from point A to point B, but want to make sure they do so as quickly, safely, enjoyably, and dazzlingly as possible. I want to wake my car up, but I don't want to harm drive ability. I want to unintentionally mumble, "wee," when I accelerate, but still be able to take a corner when the roads are wet. I want to work out a balance between output and handling, and I'd like the people who actually know how it all works to help me. <--- I'm not too good with those...

For example, squeezing horsepower out of her is one big step BUT it gets to a point that traction becomes an issue. If I want to accelerate to 60 in 4.5 seconds I'm going to be lowering her as much as possible, throwing on much wider tires, generally doing everything it takes to keep as much traction as I can. Cornering would be out of the question as I'd hit the wall every time I turned the wheel. If the road was wet I'd have to stay home because my tires would be so wide I'd just float on the puddles. There's a point where pushing power makes it impossible to expect exceptional handling. On the flip side, if I want to go for extraordinary handling I'm going to be crippled when I shoot for the rpms. 17' wheels have their drawbacks, and there's the battle between shocks and springs versus coilovers. There's struts and sway bars and a billion other things to throw on it. Where do you draw the line?

I'm asking where the sweet spot is? How fast can I make it go with wider 17" wheels? Are both front and rear sway bars going to make a difference? Should I go for the struts? What is a decent compromise?!

What I've done so far is replaced the control arms all the way around. Replaced the tie rods. Threw on S4 sway bar links. The next things I will be doing is replacing the front axles. It will be unitronic chipped once I'm done playing with the suspension and I'll be throwing in a new full exhaust. I'll also be replacing the discs and pads right after I get it chipped.

It's the "playing with suspension" that's throwing me through a loop. I want to ensure she handles well. So, should I leave it closer to factory height? Should I do coilovers or stick to nice springs and shocks? What wheel size do I stop at, 17" or 18?" Should I stagger the tires (since I'm FWD this is a very real option)? Essentially what should I do to make my daily driver a super daily driver?

Thank you for your time...

[biketsai]

17" for go
18" for show

Get a chip and coilovers

[onemoremile]

Sounds like reasonably light 17x8 wheels with 225/45-17 tires is a nice place to start. H-Sport anti roll bars are great with stock suspension. Springs and struts are fine and can handle as well as coilovers if they are set up properly.

Power above a K04 (240hp, 240-300tq) may need a clutch. Tires wider than 225 may need fender rolling.

The best balance I can think of is 17" wheels, chip or K04, good ARBs, and then basic suspension like Vogtland springs over Konis. Add in a good set of brake pads all around, new lines, and new fluid and you've got a car the way it should have come from the factory.

[djwimbo]

17" wheels w/ decent tires.
I'd recommend at least a rear sway bar for handling puposes.
Decent brake pads.
Obviously a "chip", I agree w/ the Unitronic, I am very happy with mine.
The exhaust opened my car up like it was getting chipped again. So that's a definite deal. Just don't put a muffler on like I did.
Coilovers is a big step in price and appearance. Yes, it'll help it handle a lot better, and yes, lowering will increase your camber and wear out your tires more quickly. Will it effect reliability, not really. Lowering may also be an issue if you get a TON of snow in your area. Being that you have a FWD, I don't think it's an issue.

What I've found while doing mods to my car:
I wish I would have purchased a High Flow Cat instead of a testpipe.
There's no sense in putting bigger or better brakes on, if your brake hoses need to be replaced.
My Stage 1+ Unitronic software makes me happy, especially in the rain and AutoX.
Make sure you don't weld up your exhaust in one piece. Mine comes out in one piece from the turbo flange to the muffler.
And when installing a clutch, make sure you have a trans jack.

[otterski]

With the Unitronic alone she'll already be pushing 240, once I do the exhaust she'll be breaking it. I was planning to end the horsepower squeeze once I surpassed a stock S4 and took the miles off everything that mattered (replacing most parts affected by the miles). I'm planning on the transmission failing in the next year, so I'll be ready to drop $2,500 and drop in a manual, I could do the clutch then. Is it alright to wait till the transmission fails though? Or is the extra horsepower just going to expedite that process...

And as reinforcement for my wish to keep the thing a daily, either directly after or directly before I chip it I'll be dropping in a computer, so I can still have gas-mileage friendly settings for when I'm not feeling too speedy.

[onemoremile]

You need a K04 to hit 240 hp. The Unitronic software will put you at approximately 205 hp.
stock 170hp/166lb-ft
chipped 205hp/230lb-ft



So you are a tip? Swapping to a manual is a big expensive process. Much easier to start with the right car. A chip should not cause your transmission any problems.

You won't get to S4 power levels without something larger than a K04 like APR's stage 3 kit. Even then a chipped S4 makes more horsepower and a ton more torque. I've spent a lot of time driving an S4 Avant with both the K03 turbos and with RS4 K04 turbos and the K03 software and there is no way a K04 or smaller A4 can come close. My K04 would be embarrassed by a stock S4.

There is no need for gas mileage friendly settings. You control boost with your right foot. Install a boost gauge and you'll have an instant economy reading. More boost = more air = more fuel. I've gotten 38 mpg for a 1 hour trip, 32 mpg for a 1800 mile trip, 24-28 average in town, and 6.8 average on the track. More pedal just means more gas.

[djwimbo]

With the Unitronic alone she'll already be pushing 240, once I do the exhaust she'll be breaking it. I was planning to end the horsepower squeeze once I surpassed a stock S4 and took the miles off everything that mattered (replacing most parts affected by the miles). I'm planning on the transmission failing in the next year, so I'll be ready to drop $2,500 and drop in a manual, I could do the clutch then. Is it alright to wait till the transmission fails though? Or is the extra horsepower just going to expedite that process...

And as reinforcement for my wish to keep the thing a daily, either directly after or directly before I chip it I'll be dropping in a computer, so I can still have gas-mileage friendly settings for when I'm not feeling too speedy.

Yea, Uni Stg1+(93 octane) for an '01 is rated @ 220hp/250lb-ft, That's crank horse, not wheel. Jim's 240/300 is wheel IIRC.

Is the car a tiptronic now? Since you said "drop in a manual thought I'd check.

Don't quote me on this, but isn't the crank different from a Tip car to a Manual?

[djwimbo]

My K04 would be embarrassed by a stock S4.

I've gotten 38 mpg for a 1 hour trip, 32 mpg for a 1800 mile trip, 24-28 average in town, and 6.8 average on the track. More pedal just means more gas.

I depends on who's driving. Lemme drive the S4 and you can have the A4, I'll let you win,... I promise.

My personal best was 32.66 stayin outta boost and runnin 89 octane. This would be a bit safer if I had w/m inj. but I don't, yet. I average 27 on just about every tank, but I'm quattro, you should get better.

[onemoremile]

205hp/230lb-ft came directly from Uni's site. I linked it too. The 240 I mentioned is bhp and about all a K04 can flow. The torque numbers depend on boost levels, intercooling, exhaust, etc.. I'd rather drop in a GTRS than a K04.

The S4 beats a K04 regardless of who is driving. The power starts at 2k and pulls to 7k. The 1.8 with K04 starts at 3k and pulls to 5.5-6k. They've got twice the powerband and more torque. That powerband lets them take advantage of the lower gear's mechanical advantage longer. It way more than makes up for the 10% weight difference.

[otterski]

So you are a tip? Swapping to a manual is a big expensive process. Much easier to start with the right car. A chip should not cause your transmission any problems.

You won't get to S4 power levels without something larger than a K04 like APR's stage 3 kit. Even then a chipped S4 makes more horsepower and a ton more torque.

Yeah, I'm a tip. Already talked pricing and parts over. A very informal quote of $2,500 was given to drop in a manual. Less than replacing the tiptronic. As I said, I'm expecting it to have a continued life of, at most, another year. It already jumps from 2nd to 3rd and occasionally needs me to say something nice to get it to leave 1st. Considering the guy's done the job before, I'm just gonna assume it'd work. >.< And yeah, manual puts forth more power than does the tip, of course I don't know if that's just because Audi's assuming tip's gonna be in automatic...

As for the S4, bummer. I was sizing up a completely stock S4. An S4 chipped? Yeah... I'd just buy an S4 and chip it if I wanted to get that much out of my A4... I was ill informed concerning the amount of power I could squeeze out of the K03 then. I'll research that a bit more.

What I'd like to do then is this: Get all the work done to make the car capable of handling well in every average scenario (NoVA suburbs makes the average scenario hell for a stock car going above 10 miles an hour, try the back roads in Tyson's, Reston, Falls Church...). It looks like 17" 's are going to be it, but what width, and how would staggering affect handling? I can afford both front and rear sway bars, no problem. Coilovers, they're going to ride lower than springs and struts, what will this affect? Anything else recommended? Brakes I'll deal with... Then, once that's been planned, figure out how far I can push that rig without inhibiting the driveability. A chip on the k03 may be all I can do before I need to work on traction, and I'd be fine with that. But then, if I could chip a k04 without fear of loosing traction, then I think I'd be spending more money.

[onemoremile]

Stay away from staggered tires if you want good handling unless you are going to put the fat ones on the front. All the normal stagger does is exacerbate the tendency to understeer.

Rolling stock:
17x8 or 17x8.5 with backspacing around et35 are perfect. You can then run tires anywhere from 205/50-17 to 245/40-17. The 245s will require that the front fenders be rolled and the liners trimmed. There really is nothing wrong with sticking with the 225/45-17 stock S4 tire size. Try to keep wheel weight under 25 pounds with 17-19 pounds as the goal. Koseis go as low as 15.5 pounds for a 17x8 but the S4 has already had to replace 2.

suspension:
Depends a lot on budget and peformance requirements. H-Sport bars first, then coilovers or springs/dampers. I prefer Koni since they are more compliant and handle as well as Bilsteins. I've run corner balanced KW coilovers and am now on stock sport with the H-Sport bars and it is still competitive. I've run it on the track like this and was comparable to a stock R32. The thing is that due to heat soak I could only make 5-7 psi from my K04 and was still keeping up with the R32. Guess something was working in my favor there. Both with and without the coilovers, with and without the slicks, I was repeatedly turning faster laps than faster cars. They would have to coast or hit the brakes to let me pass but I was way ahead in the twisty sections.

brakes:
Stock is surprisingly capable with the proper setup. Good smooth rotors, ceramic pads, braided lines, and good fluid (I like Motul) will stop the car no matter what you're doing on the street. If you are headed to the track a simple pad change and re-bed will give you enough braking to run slicks and full suspension without fade. The A8 rotors are an easy upgrade but really are as much for looks as performance. If you are replacing rotors then give the upgrade a look.

[speedydragon]

brakes:
Stock is surprisingly capable with the proper setup. Good smooth rotors, ceramic pads, braided lines, and good fluid (I like Motul) will stop the car no matter what you're doing on the street. If you are headed to the track a simple pad change and re-bed will give you enough braking to run slicks and full suspension without fade. The A8 rotors are an easy upgrade but really are as much for looks as performance. If you are replacing rotors then give the upgrade a look.

what's a smooth brake rotor? any suggestions?

[otterski]

Haha. Thanks for the awesome input. I must siphon as much from your mind as I can while you're willing to give it. Now, given said suspension/brakes/wheel size; what kind of power could you pull out of it?

[onemoremile]

Smooth meaning no slots or holes. Click this link and scroll down to post #3 for the reason why.