Originally Posted by
lil' is 300
It's not about producing a "10-15hp" increase or some arbitrary HP number with one IC and another...it's about retaining power that would otherwise be lost through heatsoak. ?
...Which is what I thought I said.
I guess you caught me on a verbal technicality by using the word "produce", but the terms "unleash" or "release" just aren't commonly used ("My new ER's unleash so much more hp than my old RS4's..." I don't think so). So, you can keep grabbing at that straw if you want, but believe me: I know exactly what IC's do, but good catch.
Originally Posted by
lil' is 300
There are power increases throughout the ENTIRE powerband and you will have more consistent power because the IC's can cool the air better (and yes, you're right that you can run more timing etc...which is exactly why a better cooling IC will retain power instead of pulling timing and running inconsistently). Point is, if you're running S4's ...one with ER IC and the other with AWE IC (identical otherwise) over, and over, and over again, the gap in power between the two will widen. You can't just throw out a random figure like 15-20 hp, it doesn't work like that.
I certainly understand and agree with your point, but with the exception of one small inclusion: There will be a point in either IC where the core has met it's maximum thermal efficiency and enthalpy. Heat soak will eventually reach a limit, and therefore cannot continue to get hotter and hotter until infinity (or it would melt). This is because the engine & turbos can only produce so much energy (at maximum load & output), which is absorbed by the IC and ultimately affects the amount of allowable HP that they can "release" [edit] or retain.
Originally Posted by
lil' is 300
I don't get how you don't understand the cost/benefit. You can buy ER IC's for the same price as AWE's - and if you think AWE is a deal because they come with shrouds then I don't know what to tell you. There are logs out there of ER's with no shrouds that show air temperature identical from start to end in FATs runs. No delta in air temp from a 3rd gear pull and that's with no shrouds... and AWE with shrouds still has 15+ delta which begins to climb higher into the next gear. Point is, these IC's perform better than any other IC for our car and that's without shrouds...just stating facts from data that's been collected over the years with tons of intercooler setups..
Sorry, but you cannot buy ER's for the same price (see begining post of this same thread) and your claimed prices are group-buys and hook-ups anyways... What happens if "John-Q-Modder" were to call up ER tomorrow and buy a set out of the blue, I'd be curious what the total cost is shipped... That is IF they have any in stock
Originally Posted by
lil' is 300
Here are some logs of Devious's ER SMIC logs he posted sometime with NO shrouds (major issues eh?)
For the sake of this conversation, find me one AWE log with shrouds that is comparable.
Oh, and here are logs of his "throttle cut" issues with ER's
(In case you can't see the sarcasm, I'll spell it out for ya...he's never had throttle cut with ER's).
Again, please reference Devious2.7's post as it was HIS original assumption. I am sure he has worked out the bugs since... My point was, some "tweaking" may be involved to get the most out of an IC with that much more volume. I doubt they're just "plug-n-play" as you've painted them out to be. Maybe, IDK.
Originally Posted by
lil' is 300
You keep mentioning ER's as an extra cost. I paid $100 less than AWE's and many people have paid between $1200-$1300....AWE's are $1300. And hacking? How is it that with ER's you have to "hack" your car but with AWE's you don't? If you already need to "hack" your radiator support to fit AWE's, why not go the extra length and cut deeper?.
Again, just cause you have a hook-up, doesn't mean J.Q.Modder will get the same... You also keep forgetting shrouds, otherwise the performance difference between the two is marginal at best. Nicely made shrounds can be expensive...
Originally Posted by
lil' is 300
Obviously the difference in cooling is huge between the two...so why the hell not?
Okay, let's clear something up right now, because I think we're coming from two different user groups. I will agree with you that the ER's might be more appropriate for
repeated WOT runs (i.e. autocross, road racing, drag/bracket racing, etc.), but for a street application where someone may still want retain a certain amount of stockability (or even go to the dealership w/o raising an OBVIOUS red flags)... I tend to think AWE's are a great solution for this application. A great performer, excellent quality, and outstanding customer service/support.
One other question which hasn't been addressed: What happens if ER goes out of business tomorrow? As we all know, manufacturers come and go frequently in this market, regardless of the popularity of an individual product... So who do I go to if one of my new ER's gets a stress crack in one of the welds, and they just filed Chapter 11 a few days ago...? Again, there's more to think about than just the product performance.
My whole point was that, if your bottom line is MAXIMUM numbers above
all other issues, ER's may be your solution. But I don't think it's fair to make a broadbrush, qualitive statement like "ER's are better all around", when there are many other things to take into consideration.
Conclusion: To each his own!
~APR Exhaust~APR boost Gauge
oh well, live and learn
Those same S4's are also most likely running GT turbos (w/ built motors), that flow twice as much CFM's than the normal S4; in this case the additional volume of the ER's is definitely legitimized. But for 99% of the general public that can only afford a ko4s upgrade, how much of a difference in HP are we talking about to make it worth the extra cost, hacking (cuase you're bullshitting us all by inferring it is equal to the AWE's), and comparebly-built shrouds? 
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