Transmission woes...HELP!

[sCeRaXn]

Yesterday i finally got around to installing a new rear 02 and my 710n's from Vast(awesome to deal with and insanely fast shipping). I let it warm up then went out and drove it around 5 miles or so...i only got on it once in second gear and didnt take it to redline or shift fast to third. Everything was fine at this point. Later on i left to go to my boss' house to get my check. About a mile down the road i was accelerating normally and went through the first 3 gears easily...then i attempted to shift to fourth and its like it hit a wall. It wouldnt go in at all, so i tried to put it in 3rd and it went in with a little force. I limped back home and parked it and cut it off. At first it wouldnt even come out of gear, so i started it again and it went into neutral like it was working just fine. So i put it in reverse(took a little force but nothing major) and backed it up a few feet, then put it back in first and pulled it back up. With the car off it will go into gear perfectly sometimes, and other times it wont go unless i force it...same thing when its on. The gears have only grinded once when i was trying to put it in reverse. Its almost like its an intermittent thing, which ive never experienced with a blown trans.

While i was installing my 02's i might have put a little force on the shifter linkage. The 02 wires were wire tied together right at the linkage on the passenger side(i think its the linkage anyway) and i couldnt reach the tie to cut it off. I ended up tugging on the wires until the tie popped off, but it really didnt take as much force as youd think. Could i have done something to the linkage thats causing this? I got up under the car today to check it out, but i couldnt find the problem. The part of the linkage im talking about is the rod that goes from the pivot ball on the drivers side of the trans to the bushing type thing on the passenger side. Could it be the clutch slave/master cylinder? Damn i really wish i had a manual for this thing...it would make this much easier.

Any and all diagrams involving the trans would be greatly appreciated. I tried to give as much detail as possible but im in a huge rush so i might have missed some stuff.

[sCeRaXn]

Oh yea...does Helms or Chiltons make manuals for the a6 2.7tt? If so, will it be a good guide for doing things to the engine/trans for the s4? I was thinking about getting one of those and one for the b5 a4(for body and certain chassis problems). I know they wont be exact, but im sure theyll help point me in the right direction.

[Matt@JHM]

Put the car in first gear, and get under the car and see if have a lot of play in that plastic pivot joint by yanking on the linkage rod. If that is shot, it may explain the intermittant problem.

You can either order a new pivot bushing (plastic) or get the linkage upgrade from JHM (steel).

[sCeRaXn]

OK i just tried that. It has maybe 1/16" to 3/32" of play. It really doesnt seem to be that bad, so im assuming thats a normal amount of movement.

Now it absolutely will NOT go into reverse. The more i mess with it, the more it seems like syncros are the culprit. I really hope this isnt the case because ive barely had the car 3 weeks now and ive already had to put a shit ton of money into it...i really dont have $1200+ to spend on a rebuild kit right now. Somebody give me some good news lol!

[Matt@JHM]

OK i just tried that. It has maybe 1/16" to 3/32" of play. It really doesnt seem to be that bad, so im assuming thats a normal amount of movement.

Now it absolutely will NOT go into reverse. The more i mess with it, the more it seems like syncros are the culprit. I really hope this isnt the case because ive barely had the car 3 weeks now and ive already had to put a shit ton of money into it...i really dont have $1200+ to spend on a rebuild kit right now. Somebody give me some good news lol!

Ok, no problem.

Now take off your shifter cover, and double check all of those torx screws on the linkage rods and make sure they are not loose.

[sCeRaXn]

That was the first thing i checked this morning, and everything seemed fine. I checked the allen bolts on the shifter linkage and the torx bolts on the little rods on the sides of the shifter.

Is the slave cyl on the bottom drivers side of the trans? It looks like it but i want to be certain before trying to check it. I really dont think this is the problem, but i might as well check all the little shit while im down there.

[sCeRaXn]

Come on people...with all the trouble everyone has been having with their transmissions there has to be tons of knowledge about them lol. Im pretty certain its fubar'd, but i just want to make sure before i take any major steps.

[Matt@JHM]

The problem may be in the clutch, since it happens with different gears. Does your clutch pedal feel funky? A little different than usual?

[sCeRaXn]

The clutch feels fine. The only odd thing i noticed is that when i backed it up and pulled it forward the clutch didnt engage until the pedal was almost all the way out. It seems like it used to grab closer to the floor, but its hard to tell since my crx has an aftermarket clutch and modified pedal assembly so it grabs really close to the floor. I could just be used to the crx since i drive it alot more.

The only thing that makes me think it isnt the clutch is the fact that the car wont go into gear when its off. I can usually row through the gears without even touching the clutch, but now i have to fight it into most gears, and it just wont go into reverse.

[sCeRaXn]

Any help would be appreciated!

[The_Jerbel]

the clutch slave cylinder is about 1.5 inches in front of the shifter linkage assy.

While i was installing my 02's i might have put a little force on the shifter linkage.

I would think that perhaps you popped the press fit socket off of the ball of the shifter linkage. Use a mechanics mirror to visually (and also by feel) make sure that the linkage is still bolted correctly to the trans, that the ball and socket are also still connected, and that both stabilizer rods on the pass side of the trans are still bolted down. The shifter linkage has a little piece of metal that is shaped like a wedge that goes between the linkage and the selector shaft on the trans. If the bolt holding the two comes loose, this little wedge can be moved around and no longer be correctly in place. If that happens, you won't be able to hit gears properly. You may have to remove the driver's side CV axle and shield to be able to access the linkage adequately.

[sCeRaXn]

Is the ball and socket youre referring to the one on top of the trans on the drivers side that connects to the rod that goes to the pass side(im assuming it connects to the selector shaft)? Thats the only ball and socket i saw...but its so hard to get up there that i could only see 1/4 of whats actually going on. If thats the one youre talking about then thats what i checked yesterday and it seemed fine. There was very little play where the ball meets the linkage. Ill go out there and see if i can find the wedge youre talking about. I have a diagram of the linkage assembly but i dont see it on there. I dont think it would be possible for Audi to have made it harder to get to everything on the car lol

[JDM EJ1 95]

No. the ball that goes inside the trans that pushes on the clutch fork.. the one on the top that goes in the little hole.. (where the clutch line goes to)


although that wont be the probelm since.. like you said it wont even go into gear sometimes when the car is off

[sCeRaXn]

Ok i managed to get in just the right position so that i could reach up there and feel around. I think ive got itll all figured out now, but i cant find anything wrong. Both ball and sockets(the small one on the horizontal rod and the one on the selector shaft) are together and tight. I checked for a wedge between the selector shaft and linkage and i couldnt feel anything. It feels like they are bolted straight together. The bolt hasnt come loose or anything either, so im sorta confused now. Is the shim(wedge) extremely small, or is it large enough to where i could feel it between the shaft and linkage?

While i was down there i had a friend row through the gears, and all of them went smoothly except for reverse. The linkage looked like it was straining to get selector shaft that far over. In fact, the dust boot on the large ball/socket popped off because there was so much strain on it. Yesterday i figured that it wouldnt go into reverse because the gears werent aligned properly, so i moved the car back and forth while trying to put it in gear and it still wouldnt budge.

I know this is a stupid question, but does reverse share a shaft with any other gears? On my honda if it wont go into reverse i can just put it in 1st and itll align the gears so that i can put it in reverse, but thats just not happening on audi.

Im sorry about all the stupid questions, but im trying to do this while remodeling the kitchen and changing the HG on the honda...all by myself. Its like trying to kill 5 birds with a grain of sand lol

[AMC]

reverse is a gear all on its own but when engaged it hooks up to both the hollow shaft (containing 1-2 synchro) and the input shaft (containing the rest) honestly try loosening the 2 bolts to your shifter and play with it tightening and loosening to see if maybe u can get reverse in

[The_Jerbel]

No. the ball that goes inside the trans that pushes on the clutch fork.. the one on the top that goes in the little hole.. (where the clutch line goes to)


although that wont be the probelm since.. like you said it wont even go into gear sometimes when the car is off

I was actually referring to the shifter linkage, just as he described, with the "ball and socket" comment. The slave cylinder is a whole different issue, which I don't think is the issue.

[The_Jerbel]

Ok i managed to get in just the right position so that i could reach up there and feel around. I think ive got itll all figured out now, but i cant find anything wrong. Both ball and sockets(the small one on the horizontal rod and the one on the selector shaft) are together and tight. I checked for a wedge between the selector shaft and linkage and i couldnt feel anything. It feels like they are bolted straight together. The bolt hasnt come loose or anything either, so im sorta confused now. Is the shim(wedge) extremely small, or is it large enough to where i could feel it between the shaft and linkage?

While i was down there i had a friend row through the gears, and all of them went smoothly except for reverse. The linkage looked like it was straining to get selector shaft that far over. In fact, the dust boot on the large ball/socket popped off because there was so much strain on it. Yesterday i figured that it wouldnt go into reverse because the gears werent aligned properly, so i moved the car back and forth while trying to put it in gear and it still wouldnt budge.

I know this is a stupid question, but does reverse share a shaft with any other gears? On my honda if it wont go into reverse i can just put it in 1st and itll align the gears so that i can put it in reverse, but thats just not happening on audi.

Im sorry about all the stupid questions, but im trying to do this while remodeling the kitchen and changing the HG on the honda...all by myself. Its like trying to kill 5 birds with a grain of sand lol

The wedge, or shim, that I'm talking about is actually inside the hollow linkage shaft and pressed against the selector rod. You would have to take the linkage off of the sel. shaft to take the wedge out.

Try this: Reach up to where the linkage is and try putting the trans into gear and changing gears manually, by hand. If you can smoothly get it into all gears, then you know that it's a shifter mis-alignment issue of some sort. If not, then there are bigger problems.

[sCeRaXn]

reverse is a gear all on its own but when engaged it hooks up to both the hollow shaft (containing 1-2 synchro) and the input shaft (containing the rest) honestly try loosening the 2 bolts to your shifter and play with it tightening and loosening to see if maybe u can get reverse in

Ah ok. Ill play with the adjustments on the shifter tomorrow and see what i can come up with. I messed with it a little bit yesterday, but didnt want to do alot until i had a good idea as to what the problem might be.

[sCeRaXn]

The wedge, or shim, that I'm talking about is actually inside the hollow linkage shaft and pressed against the selector rod. You would have to take the linkage off of the sel. shaft to take the wedge out.

Try this: Reach up to where the linkage is and try putting the trans into gear and changing gears manually, by hand. If you can smoothly get it into all gears, then you know that it's a shifter mis-alignment issue of some sort. If not, then there are bigger problems.

I was thinking that it would have to be inside, because the way its designed if you put it on the outside it would do nothing but put it in a bind. That makes much more sense lol.

I shifted it into every gear by moving the ball joint earlier and i had no problem. Sometimes it has a decent amount of resistance when going into the outermost gears(reverse and 5th/6th). Now im starting to think that you guys are right about the linkage being the culprit, because while looking at the geometry of the shifter you could tell that if it was slightly too long it could cause all kinds of issues. That probably doesnt make sense, but i know what i mean lol.

Thanks for all the help. I actually feel a little better about the situation now!

[Dowskeet]

Glad to hear it was a simple fix.. Unfortunately the shifter linkage can be an issue for an older higher mileage S. A little brown box from JHM and everything is all golden.

Good luck

[sCeRaXn]

Well im not exactly sure if thats the problem yet. I just put a coat of paint on the new kitchen cabinets, so im gonna go mess with the car while its drying. If it is the problem then im gonna mark the correct position of the collar on the linkage, then put it on the drill press to make a small divit for the set screw to seat into. This should keep the linkage from being thrown out of adjustment again. This is all assuming that the linkage is the problem.

I was looking at pics of JHM's solid linkage upgrade, and i think i can make my own for a fraction of the price. Ive got some shoulder bolts that were machined to fit into
custom made spherical bearings that i used to make pedal assemblies for CRX's, they look like theyll work perfectly for this project. Ive just got to find an OEM shaft link to modify. Time to break out the welder, drill press, hydro press, and lathe...its been far too long since ive had a good fabrication project.

BTW-Im in no way saying that this is going to be better than JHM's. If i had the extra money id skip this whole process and order his kit since its already had the R&D done and has been proven time and time again. All of his fabricated components look top notch, and i wouldnt hesitate to use any or all of them on my car. Im just trying to save some cash wherever possible.

[sCeRaXn]

OK i just went out there and messed with the linkage some. I managed to get it where the 6 forward gears will engage easily while the car is off, but reverse was still a no go. So i decided to start it up and see how shed act. I went to put it in first...nothing. Then i tried the rest of the gears....nothing. It wont go into gear no matter what you try. Now if i try to put it in reverse it will grind badly. So i tried adjusting the linkage more and it didnt do a damn thing. I dont know how it couldve gotten worse while just sitting there on jackstands. I havent tried to start it and put it in gear since thursday, and it went into the forward gears at that point...not easily but they still engaged.

I marked the linkage position before i started messing with it. So i put it back exactly where it was originally and it didnt help at all. The ONLY thing i did today was mess with the linkage at the shifter box, so i dont think i couldve knocked anything else out of adjustment.

[sCeRaXn]

Now im thinking that its clutch related. In my Hondas, if the trans was blown it wouldnt go into gear at all...it didnt matter if the car was on or off. It also feels like the clutch just isnt disengaging all the way. This could also be the reason that the wouldnt engage until the top of its travel. Im gonna check the master and slave cylinders to make sure theyre fine, and if thats not it then im guessing its the clutch. I suppose it could be the TOB or fork as well, but it isnt making the typical burnt TOB noise and ive only see forks bend under alot of abuse. The fact that its gotten worse without being used makes me think it could be a leak or something in the MC or slave.

Whats your thoughts on this? Afterall, you guys are the s4 experts. Im still in the learning phase lol.

[The_Jerbel]

If you can get it into gear when the car is off, but not when the car is on, then it's a clutch/PP issue.

BTW, if you messed with the shifter adjustment at the shifter box, that would definitely mess up your ability to get into gear with the shifter. You should still be able to get the tranny in gear manually, if that was the case (by hand directly at the shift linkage).

[sCeRaXn]

Well i tried every position imaginable with the shifter linkage and had no luck. I started at one end and slowly went all the way to the other, pausing every 1/8th" to row through the gears. Nothing i tried got it in gear. With the car off itll go into gear from the shifter and from the linkage itsself. I was going to take a look at the slave cylinder today, but i dont have a 12mm tri-square bit to get the axle out(i guess thats what size it is?). Where is the clutch master cylinder located? I looekd for a second and didnt see it so i gave up lol. I could track it down the old fashioned way, but im doing this on a very tight time schedule so im looking for anything that could make this go quicker. What else should i check before dropping the trans? Thanks again for all the help!

This couldnt have happened at a shittier time...but thats how it usually goes lol

[The_Jerbel]

It's on the cabin side of the firewall, up and behind the clutch pedal itself. I would probably just drop the trans at this point. Hydraulic issues are much more rare than PP failures and clutch disk issues.

[JohnnyG]

time to pull the gearbox and check it out
It sounds like a clutch problem to me

[sCeRaXn]

It's on the cabin side of the firewall, up and behind the clutch pedal itself. I would probably just drop the trans at this point. Hydraulic issues are much more rare than PP failures and clutch disk issues.

Yea i figured thats where it was. Thats the first place i looked, but i couldnt see anything because of the tray under the dash. I was covered in grease at that point so i didnt wanna be rolling around in the car. I mainly just wanted check for any small leaks, but if it were leaking enough to cause this id most likely have a puddle somewhere. I think im just looking for a reason to not have to pull the trans at this point lol

[sCeRaXn]

time to pull the gearbox and check it out
It sounds like a clutch problem to me

Yea thats not what i wanted to hear lol Oh well i figured id have to do it anyway, so i guess now is as good of a time as ever. I guess ill go ahead and get the Vast stage 2 clutch and resurfaced FW...im sure ill need the extra clamping force eventually!

[The_Jerbel]

Give me a call re: clutches and I'll take care of you
403-690-7135

[sCeRaXn]

OK so i got the clutch in, but im still missing a few little parts...so i decided to go finish up a few little things under the car in preparation for the clutch install. While under there i noticed a small amount of fluid on the tip of my slave cylinder. I wiped it off and it came back immediately. I noticed a little fluid on it when i first took it off, but i had accidently douched it with wd40 while spraying another part so i assumed thats what the fluid was. I went in the shop and looked inside the bell housing on the trans...sure enough, there was a nice clean area just under where the slave cylinder comes into the trans, so it had obviously been leaking for a while. So now it looks like i dropped the trans and spent close to $1k on a rs4 clutch and other parts for nothing. I guess im gonna have to order a new slave cylinder now, so its gonna be down for another week or two. I guess this is what i get for not diagnosing correctly and assuming i knew what it was.

Jordan...you have a PM lol

[The_Jerbel]

Sorry to hear that man!

I'll get that slave cylinder for you ASAP so you can get your car up and running again post haste!

[sCeRaXn]

Hell yea...youre the shit lol. Thanks again man.