S3/30th GTI Turbo install thread

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

Just thought i would post some info for A3's thinking of upgrading their turbo.

The kit comes with a fuel pump, turbo, various hoses, lines, hardware, S3 FSI Piezzo Injectors, gaskets and software.

The car we are using has a stage II setup with 3" Stealth APR Turbo Back, Carbonio intake, Forge DV and v1.2 Stage II software. For a baseline, ETA did a dyno at Aerocomp Racing in Sanford FL.

It was a bit hot today (92 deg F) and about 32% humidity, and a spirited drive on the way over against a mustang GT and doing some datalogging but we still got some pretty good dyno results.

This is first pull 3rd gear, we decided to go with 4th gear for a closer 1:1 reading, the best pull we got was 245hp/279ft/lbs to the wheels, about 282hp/320ftlbs at the flywheel using 15% loss.

this is uncorrected with some smoothing 93 octane, 1st run is 3 gear the rest are 4th gear pulls.






We did some datalogging also and saw that EGT's hit around 916 deg which is pretty much the safe limit on the turbo exhaust side that many tuners do not pay attention to and had zero timing pull on all cylinders. So that all means we have a healthy engine we are working with

the owner has decided to put a Spec Stage II+ Single Mass flywheel clutch kit which will handle up to 465ft/lbs.

But to be a better comparision from where we started, we are going to dyno the car after the turbo install and then do the clutch/flywheel install.

More pics and S3 Kit Dyno's to follow by the end of the week!

[kwanja_a3]

Thanks for this, keep us posted!

[20AE428]

Great - Can't wait to see the results. I have been looking at the S3 kit. Are you using all OEM S3 K04 turbo and manifold?

[duglas]

2 questions that have nothing to do with the upgrade..

What kind of pod is that in the center of the dash and are those the new GTI rims painted black??

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

2 questions that have nothing to do with the upgrade..

What kind of pod is that in the center of the dash and are those the new GTI rims painted black??

i beleive its a new south pod

the rims are powder coated black :]

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

Great - Can't wait to see the results. I have been looking at the S3 kit. Are you using all OEM S3 K04 turbo and manifold?

its essentially all the S3 turbo components, plumbing and injectors plus the apr pump.

[gotaudi]

I thought you want a little timing pull so you know the car is living up to its potential.

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

Update!
We dynoed Sunday with the factory clutch still installed and the same intake.
S3 Kit w/ Fuel pump + APR FMIC
1st 3 runs were 93 oct, 96deg F 16% humidity best run 285whp/305wtq, 298whp/312wtq 100oct


next set of runs, 100 oct, didn't really have much time to adjust since we didn't drive around on it, but still made a difference and was improving as we made more runs on the dyno.



the kit was very driveable and boost to about 24psi in 93oct and tapers to 19psi redline.
in 100oct it runs around 19psi and tapers to 17psi to redline.

overall about a 34whp/26wtq gain over stage II+ software w/ FMIC

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

I thought you want a little timing pull so you know the car is living up to its potential.

not really, if you mean knock sensor voltages go up, then yes, but it does not retard timing as it reaches peak RPM.

[SilverB7FL]

holy crap thats alot of power! why dont they make this kit for the B7!! its not fair!

[OpenSkye]

$?

[jcg05c]

is that the same car this was sitting in your garage when i was there with the blacked out tails or was that a vdub?

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

$?

with the APR sale, w/ Fuel Pump its $4500, regular price is $4999

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

is that the same car this was sitting in your garage when i was there with the blacked out tails or was that a vdub?

its a MKV Jetta 2.0T

[yacoub]

So $5000 plus significant labor cost for "34whp/26wtq".

That's $147/hp and $192/tq, not including labor AND that's with 100 octane, which isn't what you'd drive around on every day nor is it cheap.

As nice as more hp/tq is, for those cost ratios I'd definitely pass.

Compare it with the basic stage 1 APR chip for the 2.0T FSI, which nets 46hp and 75tq over stock for $600 plus install and using normal, readily available 91 octane.

That's a cost ratio of $13/hp and $8/tq, and with DirectPort the labor cost should be minimal if any. Even with two programs, which is probably a given and adds $150, you're still only at $16/hp and $10/tq. Still much more reasonable prices for the performance boost received.

[OpenSkye]

So $5000 plus significant labor cost for "34whp/26wtq".

That's $147/hp and $192/tq, not including labor AND that's with 100 octane, which isn't what you'd drive around on every day nor is it cheap.

As nice as more hp/tq is, for those cost ratios I'd definitely pass.

Compare it with the basic stage 1 APR chip for the 2.0T FSI, which nets 46hp and 75tq over stock for $600 plus install and using normal, readily available 91 octane.

That's a cost ratio of $13/hp and $8/tq, and with DirectPort the labor cost should be minimal if any. Even with two programs, which is probably a given and adds $150, you're still only at $16/hp and $10/tq. Still much more reasonable prices for the performance boost received.

1 hp from S3 kit: $147

1 hp from basic chip: $13

spanking the 2.0t next to you at the light: priceless.

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

So $5000 plus significant labor cost for "34whp/26wtq".

That's $147/hp and $192/tq, not including labor AND that's with 100 octane, which isn't what you'd drive around on every day nor is it cheap.

As nice as more hp/tq is, for those cost ratios I'd definitely pass.

Compare it with the basic stage 1 APR chip for the 2.0T FSI, which nets 46hp and 75tq over stock for $600 plus install and using normal, readily available 91 octane.

That's a cost ratio of $13/hp and $8/tq, and with DirectPort the labor cost should be minimal if any. Even with two programs, which is probably a given and adds $150, you're still only at $16/hp and $10/tq. Still much more reasonable prices for the performance boost received.

skip the chip, just go straight S3 K04 :)
You can't just look at peak hp figures and make a decision, its a 34whp/26wtq pretty much across the whole rev range.

Driving it vs seeing peak numbers is very different. But its not a big turbo, it doesn't have lag down low and it doesn't make peak power in the upper rev range. I think its a perfect middle ground for a daily driven street car.

[UberA3]

skip the chip, just go straight S3 K04 :)
You can't just look at peak hp figures and make a decision, its a 34whp/26wtq pretty much across the whole rev range.

Driving it vs seeing peak numbers is very different. But its not a big turbo, it doesn't have lag down low and it doesn't make peak power in the upper rev range. I think its a perfect middle ground for a daily driven street car.

These numbers are kind of disappointing. Who is going to run 100 octane in a daily driver?

[Six Speed Turbo]

I agree UberA3. Maybe if there was 50 more ponies it would be worth the dough.

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

These numbers are kind of disappointing. Who is going to run 100 octane in a daily driver?

there is also a 93oct graph,
and coming from a 1.8T w/ a 2871 making about the same power, i think these number are pretty impressive and making power about 2k rpm earlier then any big turbo.

Hard to justify when the Stage III is about 1k more w/o FMIC but, for street use if i was going from a stock or just a chipped car, I would go with the S3 K04. If i wanted 370whp+ i would go with the stage III, all personal preference.

[yacoub]

These numbers are kind of disappointing.

there is also a 93oct graph

With even less impressive numbers yet the same pricetag.
Running 93 octane (which is still more than you can get in some states that max at 91 octane), you're paying $5000 (plus install) for 21 more hp/19 more tq. I don't care where on the torque curve it comes in, that's a horrible cost/benefit ratio.

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

With even less impressive numbers yet the same pricetag.
Running 93 octane (which is still more than you can get in some states that max at 91 octane), you're paying $5000 (plus install) for 21 more hp/19 more tq. I don't care where on the torque curve it comes in, that's a horrible cost/benefit ratio.

like i said, its all personal preference. If you just wanted an ECU upgrade, that is all you would pay for. You are still comparing it to a fully modded 2.0T stage II+ w/ FMIC, intake, downpipe, exhaust, etc. It is a progression of mods. If you were to just get the K04 instead of doing all other mods, it would be more cost beneficial but not all are willing or can pay the price tag. Many have spent more then the cost of this kit to get these numbers reliably/consistently for other cars. The cost of some of the OEM hardware raises the price of the kit considerably because of the exchange rate.

[yacoub]

Hey, that's a good point!

[SoFresh]

You could build a better setup thats not "out of the box"... and gain alot more power for your buck... however, wont be as reliable... most likely...

[AudiRacerS4]

there is also a 93oct graph,
and coming from a 1.8T w/ a 2871 making about the same power, i think these number are pretty impressive and making power about 2k rpm earlier then any big turbo.

yeah but a 2871r kit can be had for $3400 on the 1.8T and is capable of making 300-330whp on 93oct

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

yeah but a 2871r kit can be had for $3400 on the 1.8T and is capable of making 300-330whp on 93oct

maybe so, but still not making this power anywhere near where a K04 is making it.

If you guys aren't impressed with these numbers, check out European Car this month, there is an AWE kit making 237whp/245wtq w/intercooler w/ Turbo Back, those are stage II APR K03 numbers or less.

[AudiRacerS4]

maybe so, but still not making this power anywhere near where a K04 is making it.

If you guys aren't impressed with these numbers, check out European Car this month, there is an AWE kit making 237whp/245wtq w/intercooler w/ Turbo Back, those are stage II APR K03 numbers or less.

yes but a 2871r is much bigger than a K04 and where you run out of breath up top the 2871r shines. K03/K04 have no top end power. For the $ per HP the K04 kit for these cars are not worth the money IMO.

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

yes but a 2871r is much bigger than a K04 and where you run out of breath up top the 2871r shines. K03/K04 have no top end power. For the $ per HP the K04 kit for these cars are not worth the money IMO.

true you would gain more peak power, i still think the S3 2.0T FSI would be faster. I have a 2871R on a 1.8T right now i am thinking of selling to get a 2.0T FSI with S3 K04 or BT setup on it.

the S3 kit actually had pretty good top end power considering the size of the turbo it uses.

Borg Warner turbo's and VW/Audi Have put millions into R&D with this turbo for reliability, driveability, and efficiency. You don't really get that with a homebrew kit that uses parts that were not designed together and so heavily tested. I would think that a K04 would probably outlast a homebrew Garrett setup.

Might change my mind if i get to drive a 2.0T APR stage III w/ a GT2871R

[ThirdStrike]

Borg Warner turbo's and VW/Audi Have put millions into R&D with this turbo for reliability, driveability, and efficiency. You don't really get that with a homebrew kit that uses parts that were not designed together and so heavily tested. I would think that a K04 would probably outlast a homebrew Garrett setup.

yah KKK turbos have reliability but id take a dual bb gt before id take a kkk turbo. i dont get how you think it wouldnt be as reliable? if someone homebrews a gt setup and tunes it right it will be more reliable than oem anyday.

yeah but a 2871r kit can be had for $3400 on the 1.8T and is capable of making 300-330whp on 93oct

i know of a RS making 330whp/394wtq, who cares if you lose 1k rpms on lag... by the time your at full boost the car is making the hp to redline.
k04=fail

[SlowGolf]

If you got lag on a ball bearing turbo you arent driving it right

[AudiA4_20T]

the K04 kit is the biggest waste of money ever... Any 1.8T guy can piece together a B.A.T. setup with rods for cheaper than that and run 400awhp

and these are fwhp numbers

[1sika3]

the K04 kit is the biggest waste of money ever... Any 1.8T guy can piece together a B.A.T. setup with rods for cheaper than that and run 400awhp

and these are fwhp numbers

yep. custom GT3071R turbo setup for the win...u can buy all the parts right from ATP and do it for under 3k.....

[UberA3]

yep. custom GT3071R turbo setup for the win...u can buy all the parts right from ATP and do it for under 3k.....

yeah and then be stuck with no tuning