Which speakers for my listening pleasure?

[A4Shizzle]

Hey folks, my b-day is approaching and I was thinking about a little upgrade in the sound department. I found some CDTs that look good, but I'm unsure what to choose. I already have a nice alpine HU (CDA-9885) that works great and matches the dash PERFECTLY at night. Now I want to upgrade the stock front (non-bose) speakers to some 5.25" components. I don't really know much about CDTs, but the prices look good and I've seen many reviews saying they're better than the competition in that price range. Most of the people who recomend them say that they're smoother in the highs and that's what I'm looking for.

CL-51A-25 PRO

EF-51

The ones above have around a 2.5" mounting depth and I know there isn't a lot of room to work with, so I also linked some with a 2" depth, and neyodium magnet that are supposed to be just as powerful as the others:

EF-51NEO/DRT-25 PRO

I'm definately open to other suggestions in the $100 to $200 range, and I'll probably be powering them with one of these two:

Alpine MRP-F450

Eclipse EA4000

Looks like they both have about the same features and power output, but the EA4000 is going for a bit less on ebay. I was going to throw some woofers in the rear deck so the 4ch is neccesary. Let me know...

[Mawhitey]

TBH i like the spec of the narrow ones, as we have to mount the speakers to the door card spending much more on speakers is a bit of a waste, and 90 rms is a lot of power to drive anyway. Most HU only drive @ around 12w rms.
Anyone of the amps looks good, but i have only heard alpine amps and they tend to produce clear crisp sound, rather than my prefered smooth sound i like ( i'm old)

[zrowcool]

i think cdt's are a great choice depending on the type of music you listen to. I already know your budget but i can recommend speakers to someone which are very "bright" for music such as classical and opera compared to others that are more mellow but still maintain clarity for like classic rock.

As for the cdt's you mentioned, i have heard cdts and i liek the way they sound since they suit my music preference which happens to be a bit more on the brighter side. not much and its definitely tuneable with your headunit and the crossovers that come with the setup.

[djwimbo]

Most HU only drive @ around 12w rms.

Not so much anymore, Pioneer drives 22W rms, Alpine ~18W, ... and so on. IIRC my Sony is 18W as well.
I use my A/M head unit to power the front speakers and a 4 Channel to power the four rear speakers. When I get the $ to replace all 6 speakers I will run the rears in parallel and power them as one speaker per side, then use the other two channels to power the fronts.

4/6 channel amp is the way to go. I wouldn't recommend anything else. Just ditch the stock wiring and rn your own, it'll sound a ton better.

As for speaker choices, that's your call on how your ears translate noise. Every speaker sounds different.
Personally if I'm looking for affordable and decent quality, I go with a Harmon Group aka Infinity, JBL, Harmon Kardon. Mostly I've used Infinity stuff and been very happy with it.

[Kyle H]

I run that first set of cdt's you have, and they sound great if the rest of your system can keep up with them. My system is the cdt 5.25" fronts run off of a PG R4.0:2 (~80w rms IIRC), with a EH8QS sub in my trunk. I used to run a eDesign 13Ov.2 but that setup had NO midrange or midbass at all.

IMO, they're best used with a set of 6.5"s in the rear deck that can fill the mids and mid bass range. They really have no low end. I've heard that with sealed doors and the correct power (150w rms) they gain some of that bass back though.

What I would recommend is getting some Rammat to seal off your front doors and use that to seal your new speakers into the door, then get that alpine amp, run two channels bridged to each speaker in the front. You'll probably want to get a sub down the road, so make sure you run a 4awg wire from the battery at least.

[onemoremile]

8 ga is more than enough for that power level. I ran a Harman Kardon TC600 amp at 1200+ watts on a pair of 8ga and there was no appreciable current drop. The amp was a dual monoblock which is why it ran a pair of cables. The Outback runs a single 8ga to a MTX 4x75 amp which runs Clarion Pro Audio and MB Quart speakers. It is set up so that the front channels of the deck provide the signal to the amp which runs the fronts and is bridged to the sub. The rear speakers are stock and still powered by the head unit which is perfect for rear fill. Since the front speaker signal was tapped it is easy to fade between the fronts+sub versus the stock rears.

Sealing the doors is a great way to get an inexpensive improvement. My wife's Outback is fully Dynamatted (doors, floorpan, roof, tailgate) and it is quieter than my Audi. Cascade V-Blok is another great product and there is a paint on version too.

[Kyle H]

I was telling him to run a 4awg wire in case he wanted to add a powerful sub down the line, that way he wouldn't have to run another 8awg wire or replace the wire with a bigger one.

Jim (can i call you that? ), since we're on the topic, I have a couple of questions.

1. How much weight would sealing my front doors with dynamat or a comparable product add?

2. I've read somewhere that running a sub in the trunk, and having speakers in the rear deck is a big no-no. IIRC they said that the rear speakers will be distorted since the trunk is sealed and the sub is increasing the pressure so much. Your comment about leaving the rears in for fill goes against that, though. Would it be okay to throw some speakers in the rear deck again for some rear fill?

[1hotA4]

1. How much weight would sealing my front doors with dynamat or a comparable product add?

IT will add alot of weight, Also depends on how many layers you plan on going? But if your looking for a cheap dynomat i got a solution for you. Go to your local lowes or homedepot. And Down the Gutter or roofing aisle they will have a product that is called "Roof and gutter Flashing." It comes in a roll most of the time a 25 foot roll. Its like 6-8" wide normally and has an adhesive back. I used this on a SPL truck that i built with a 14 cube box with 2 18" subs. His roof still excurted (Sp?) 6 ". hahah BUt thats a suggestion for your question. Dynomat is cool b/c its a noise reducer. But if your into weight reductions its really not the way to go. IMO.

[1hotA4]

2. I've read somewhere that running a sub in the trunk, and having speakers in the rear deck is a big no-no. IIRC they said that the rear speakers will be distorted since the trunk is sealed and the sub is increasing the pressure so much. Your comment about leaving the rears in for fill goes against that, though. Would it be okay to throw some speakers in the rear deck again for some rear fill?

whats wrong with running subs in the trunk? I have 2 JL 12w6's in my trunk and they sound pretty damn good.

[onemoremile]

He was referring to the subs changing the air pressure of the trunk which will distort the open backed rear speakers. The easiest way to deal with this is to use a speaker backer which looks like an old top hat turned upside down. When I used them I would mount it and modify the backer to fit before putting some fiberglass resin on it. Then pull it out and add another layer to harden it. It probably isn't necessary but if left untreated it's semi-permeable material causes it to act like an aperiodic membrane.

Sealing the doors can add as little as 5 pound or as much as 20 pounds per door. The full dynamat approach like on the Outback can add a couple hundred pounds. Going overboard doesn't help since the door can't be completely sealed. Deadening (lowering the resonant frequency of) the door skin and limiting the amount of air leaks does make a sizable difference though. Just for kicks a few pros took a stock car and gave it the treatment and entered it into a national SQ comp and placed very well. All they had to do is get the most out of what was already there.

I've seen/heard systems with Pyramid and Power Acoustik that were better than Quart, PPI, and JL because they were set up correctly. Just like a big turbo system the tuning is the most important aspect of the system.

The roof and gutter flashing isn't bad and will get the job done. There are far better products out there but not all of them are available locally.

The SPL truck above sounds a bit like my home theater. I build a couple of 8 ft3 sealed enclosures with an Adire Audio Tempest 15 in each. I measured one side with the submarine scene from Finding Nemo and it did 146.2 dB (A weighted with slow response curve) which is exceptional for the 125 watts @16 ohms it was playing with. Each sub's in-cabinet f3 is about 15.5 hz. Q is in the .6 range. It is an audiophile setup that just happens to play very very loud. It can hit mid to upper teens with no problem and no distortion. 20hz is about 112db at the listening position 12-15 feet away.
http://michiganvw.org/forum/showthre...036#post108036

[1hotA4]

He was referring to the subs changing the air pressure of the trunk which will distort the open backed rear speakers. The easiest way to deal with this is to use a speaker backer which looks like an old top hat turned upside down. When I used them I would mount it and modify the backer to fit before putting some fiberglass resin on it. Then pull it out and add another layer to harden it. It probably isn't necessary but if left untreated it's semi-permeable material causes it to act like an aperiodic membrane.

Sealing the doors can add as little as 5 pound or as much as 20 pounds per door. The full dynamat approach like on the Outback can add a couple hundred pounds. Going overboard doesn't help since the door can't be completely sealed. Deadening (lowering the resonant frequency of) the door skin and limiting the amount of air leaks does make a sizable difference though. Just for kicks a few pros took a stock car and gave it the treatment and entered it into a national SQ comp and placed very well. All they had to do is get the most out of what was already there.

I've seen/heard systems with Pyramid and Power Acoustik that were better than Quart, PPI, and JL because they were set up correctly. Just like a big turbo system the tuning is the most important aspect of the system.

The roof and gutter flashing isn't bad and will get the job done. There are far better products out there but not all of them are available locally.

The SPL truck above sounds a bit like my home theater. I build a couple of 8 ft3 sealed enclosures with an Adire Audio Tempest 15 in each. I measured one side with the submarine scene from Finding Nemo and it did 146.2 dB (A weighted with slow response curve) which is exceptional for the 125 watts @16 ohms it was playing with. Each sub's in-cabinet f3 is about 15.5 hz. Q is in the .6 range. It is an audiophile setup that just happens to play very very loud. It can hit mid to upper teens with no problem and no distortion. 20hz is about 112db at the listening position 12-15 feet away.
http://michiganvw.org/forum/showthre...036#post108036

hahah thats awesome, im in the middle of building my home theater too. And im also using car audio. I have a hook up with boston acoustics so im using there mids and highs and i made 2 transverse box for subs underneath the seats...so basically like a IMAX theater.

[onemoremile]

Don't use car audio speakers. The dispersion patterns are all wrong and they sound strange. This is because car speakers are made for great off-axis dispersion while home speakers are never meant to be used like that. Back when I had the store I picked up a dozen sets of 6.5" Clarion Pro Audio components (one set is in the Outback) and built three matching D'Appolito configuration speakers and they were ok but a very far cry from the ones I built with Vifa or Swans drivers. The theater uses Klipsch Reference for everything but the subs.

When my garage gets redone this summer it will have several 6.5" coax drivers mounted in the ceiling along with some 10" MB Quart subs that are just lying around.

[A4Shizzle]

I run that first set of cdt's you have, and they sound great if the rest of your system can keep up with them. My system is the cdt 5.25" fronts run off of a PG R4.0:2 (~80w rms IIRC), with a EH8QS sub in my trunk. I used to run a eDesign 13Ov.2 but that setup had NO midrange or midbass at all.

IMO, they're best used with a set of 6.5"s in the rear deck that can fill the mids and mid bass range. They really have no low end. I've heard that with sealed doors and the correct power (150w rms) they gain some of that bass back though.

What I would recommend is getting some Rammat to seal off your front doors and use that to seal your new speakers into the door, then get that alpine amp, run two channels bridged to each speaker in the front. You'll probably want to get a sub down the road, so make sure you run a 4awg wire from the battery at least.

Hey, thanks for the post! So are you saying that they will definately fit in the doors? Did you have to do any extensive modification? I'm going to get some Tang Band 6.5" woofers to go in the rear deck, and make some mini enclosures for them if I need it. Hopefully I won't need to add a bigger sub, as I don't need to be setting off alarms . I'll probably to to seal up the front doors too, while I have the cards off.