APR STAGE 3+ ??'s

[eg6siR]

ok, so i just sold my civic hatch (it will be missed) it could consistently run 12's on street tires all day every day. so now i have $8000 to dump into my A4. i want comparable times, even if the audi can only run 13's i will be happy.

first question: APR 3+ or custom route? i can install everything myself, i have been a mechanic for many years now. so labor prices dont matter to me... and if i go custom i can fabricate whatever i may need.

i know there are some BT and BAT who have done this already so i am looking for your opinions. i want 300+ whp for sure and i will build the motor if i have to. i already have most of the supporting mods sitting in my basement, front mount, neuspeed exhaust, test pipe, coilovers, and s4 brakes.. this has been my daily for a while now and i have been wanting to make it a monster, so please any input would be greatly appreciated.

and anyone from the PA/ pittsburgh area know a good place to get my shit tuned once i install everything?

[yoogene83]

get APR 3+ kit then...

APR 3+ tune + custom lemmiwinks
replace GT28RS with GT2871R
add water/meth injection

that is pretty close if not THE limit on the stock bottom end.

Otherwise, i would go 2.0L, pistons, rods and a full rebuild for safety of mind, then use a 3071R and comparable injectors. only thing is you would need a custom tune or use Shawn's (a4ringedone8t) tune

[B6Lovin]

that money will go a lot further if you go the custom route.

sounds like someone is about to join BAT. best of luck to you -- with that kind of money and most supporting mods out of the way, i'd start reading through shawn's build thread - and see if that's something you want to do. (3071 or 3076, 2.0L, built head, etc)

[eg6siR]

what is APR 3++? i have seen shawns setup, looks/sounds mean as hell. what is he tuned on GIAC? REVO? i think the custom route would be what i would normally do, but it seems 3+ is pretty badass... i am gussing 3++ is a custom build stage 3 setup? like different turbo/injectors/ injector file?

how much HP/TRQ can the stock bottom end handle?

[mtbrider]

go custom, no questions asked

[eg6siR]

go custom, no questions asked

thats how i usually feel, but i just wanna see what some gtrs and APR3+ guys have to say?


anyone running apr3+ currently?

[aLeXliu911]

skip the apr stage 3+ get BAT instead.
2.0L + GT3076

[AudiA4_20T]

skip the apr stage 3+ get BAT instead.
2.0L + GT3076

thats such a solid setup... PM me if you have questions I did the 2.0 stroker this winter

[A4 TSCHUSS]

The stock bottom is good for roughly 325whp anything over that or power consistently at that level then you may have rod failure. Rods are only $350 through Integrated engineering. As far as turbo kit to do, if you are looking for a consistent 300 or little more at the wheels and have $8000 to spend buy the APR 3++ which is the APR kit with the GT28RS swapped out for a GT2871r. This will give you 300 or more on pump gas without having to fool with meth injection and the kit is great quality (no worries of cracked manifolds). Also you will slap it on and not have to tinker with boost and timing to get the power, its just put it in and go then you can always use a program called lemmiwinks which you can download if you search around for it and this was developed by REVO. With that you can adjust the timing to get some more power.

As far as the GTRS you are gonna have to run meth injection with pump gas to get to 300whp and that is at max timing (controllable with the SPS 3 unit or newer Select Plus which I personally don't like since its more work to change things) and around 21psi (GTRS is good for 24psi max) and this is on a perfectly running car. I personally have got 300whp at 20psi and timing 9 (max timing on the REVO software) while running something similar to 100 octane (I had a few gallons of 93 and like 2 gallons of Toluene mixed in) and im all wheel drive and the dyno room was at like 90 degrees, but on the other hand another member only achieved 298whp at higher boost and max timing with a front wheel drive and if I recall this was on the same dyno as me.

[eg6siR]

thats such a solid setup... PM me if you have questions I did the 2.0 stroker this winter

did you do it in the parking lot at school too? making huge messes in public parking lots FTW!!!

what internals did you use?


ok, so where is a good place to pick up another engine for the build? i dont want alot of downtime.. atleast until i get a truck for a daily and to haul around my quads... haha

[eg6siR]

The stock bottom is good for roughly 325whp anything over that or power consistently at that level then you may have rod failure. Rods are only $350 through Integrated engineering. As far as turbo kit to do, if you are looking for a consistent 300 or little more at the wheels and have $8000 to spend buy the APR 3++ which is the APR kit with the GT28RS swapped out for a GT2871r. This will give you 300 or more on pump gas without having to fool with meth injection and the kit is great quality (no worries of cracked manifolds).

i can fabricate my own tubular manifold so i am not worried about a cheap manifold, but 3++ sounds fucking tempting... I have a tubing bender, and a tig welder so maybe i will start fabricating..

[mtbrider]

there is a amb motor and trans in the classifieds for a good price right now

[AudiA4_20T]

did you do it in the parking lot at school too? making huge messes in public parking lots FTW!!!

what internals did you use?


ok, so where is a good place to pick up another engine for the build? i dont want alot of downtime.. atleast until i get a truck for a daily and to haul around my quads... haha

nah the build was during my winter break ha.

Buy a spare 06A and build that up in the meantime... I did wiseco 9:1 83mm pistons, Scat rods, and an AEG crank... Read the FAQs youll have a built 2.0 for ~2k

[eg6siR]

nah the build was during my winter break ha.

Buy a spare 06A and build that up in the meantime... I did wiseco 9:1 83mm pistons, Scat rods, and an AEG crank... Read the FAQs youll have a built 2.0 for ~2k

that sounds like what i want... IE rods look a little better than scat though... or am i wrong? that would leave me with 6k for the turbo setup... since i already have frontmount, TP, exhaust waiting for install

[Groove1797]

APR 3++ is for a built bottom end, head, and uses a gt2871

[A4 TSCHUSS]

It really would only take you a day to swap the rods, its actually pretty easy. You don't even have to take the cams out of the head to get to the head bolts so just take the valve cover off and pop out the head bolts then disconnect a few coolant hoses toward the rear of the head and a plastic coolant flange on the backside of the head which you can see a do it yourself with some pics from when I changed mine to see where bolts are which you cant really see when you are doing it. Then of course disconnect turbo from the mani and undo the timing belt and there ya go!

[A4 TSCHUSS]

APR 3++ is for a built bottom end, head, and uses a gt2871

you don't need a built head for a GT2871r

[eg6siR]

looks like i might be going with a built motor.... Any good cams with some nice long exhaust duration to get those BT's spooling faster? now i am getting excited


this was my street/racecar for the last few years, it could consistently run 12's on street tires:


all motor B16 setup 12.5:1 comp. ratio, 11k rpm redline, i miss it already and the guy hasnt even picked her up yet, but he gave me a nice deposit so i guess i have to say goodbye honda, and hello BT a4.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

god damn 11k rpm I had an integra in the past but never went crazy with rpms

[AB18]

I am in the Pittsburgh area and can help you out with the install if you need it. Ive installed a couple turbos on my old B5 1.8T,one being Apr stage 3. If this is going to your daily driver, Apr stage 3 + is the way to go. I don't care what anyone says, it is a rock solid kit that isn't going to give you many problems, which is nice for dding. BAT setups will make more power, but won't be as drivable in this city, and won't be as reliable. The Apr stage 3 uses the disco potato, which is proven to be a great all around turbo. As far as tuning options around pitt, not really. All i have to say is, watch yourself around Next level tuning in Greensburg. They will come off as your best friend, but its far from the truth, thats all im going say. Apex tuning in wexfords deals with GIAC, they are legit.


What are you located? I am just off exit 9 on 60 north, right near pitt international. I am out here going to flight school.

[eg6siR]

haha, yeah, its built for like 12k, fully balanced, and revs like a street bike, it made like 240whp all motor.... and i could drive it on the street with no problems... i drove it less than 5000 miles a year so it was emissions exempt and i ran a test pipe with the spoon n1 catback setup so it was loud as hell and sounded like a crotch rocket, and moved like one too...

[eg6siR]

AB18: i am in washington, so like 30 minutes from you... south on 79... i can install it myself no problem, but i would like to see that s4

[eg6siR]

but what about some long duration cams?

[Groove1797]

you don't need a built head for a GT2871r

there software revs to 8+

[rxrep]

I don't have time to read all the threads, but I'm APR Stage 3+ and in Pittsburgh. Go to the North East section, then to the "Pittsburgh People" thread.
We're all willing to lend a hand or half a brain if beer is involved.
No idea what I am at the wheels, but haven't found many cars in this podunk town that will keep up with me. Not being cocky, as I'm certainly not the fastest, but Stage 3+ in and of itself is pretty quick and damn near what you're looking to put out.
With built bottom end and race gas, I'd bet you've got it and then some.
I'm running race gas/93 mix but with Unitronics timing tweaked. Plus, I'm running TP and fully wraped/blanketed hot side and custom ducting.
I'd venture to say I'm putting out a tad more than a standard GT28RS APR Stage 3+ kit, however I don't even care what that number is on paper. I only care that the other guy can barely read my license plate.

[mtbrider]

I'm in the Pittsburgh area all the time, the next time i'm up there I'll have to let you guys know

[A4 TSCHUSS]

there software revs to 8+

Because your car can do 140mph does that mean you do it? I will leave you with that.....

The car will only rev as high as you choose to rev it.

[rxrep]

I'm in the Pittsburgh area all the time, the next time i'm up there I'll have to let you guys know

Bring your bike. Some decent single track around here. Just go slow for me, lol. I raced in top percentage NORBA sport class, but then went through total knee reconstruction and now I'll bet I'm novice at best, lol. And do let us know on the "Pittsburgh People" thread (longest and most viewed thread on AZ), as we're always up for buying beer for out of town guests.

[eg6siR]

i posted a few times in the pittsburgh people thread but my car is pretty stock right now... it was gonna be my daily driver, but i am selling the civic so i am gonna go all out on the audi, and get a beater truck for everyday and to haul my quad... my civic pulls damn hard, and i just want to have atleast that amount of power from my a4..

RXREP: i would love to check out your stage 3+ car to see if its what i am looking for, or if a custom setup is more my route...

[mtbrider]

^^will do

[eg6siR]

there software revs to 8+

i am talking about camshaft specs... i wanted to know if there are any good aftermarket cams that have a longer exhaust duration so that the turbo spools faster on a BAT setup

[mtbrider]

I'd talk to [email protected] about cams.

[rxrep]

If I could've gotten in to what the BAT boys are now doing when I bought my kit, I might have gone that route. Simply because I spent that much money anyhow, why not have the biggest turbo around, lol.
Although, I think my car with the GT28RS sports the best combination of quick... and top end.... for what I want it for. My lag is minimal, and it still pulls like a bitch to redline. I'm at that point where if I wanted that much more, I'd buy a different car to do it with.
For SCCA and track events, the stage 3+ works awesome, while still being able to go well in a straight line if I wanted to, which I don't. Turning the steering wheel once in a while is what makes it fun for me. I don't live 1/4 mile at a time.
I regularly beat up on the V8's around here, especially if there are turns involved.
Anyhow, my car is just out of the body shop today, and I should have it all back together by the weekend. Hit me up sometime if you want to check it out.

[dougyfresh]

I think Jordan (CO Avant) has the ultimate set-up. APR 3+ hardware with a GT2871R and a 2.0L stroker with fully built head and CAT cams.

Clint did do is 2.0L stroker for a really good price. Mine will come out similar but I'm paying for the bottom end to be assembled whereas he did his himself.

[Groove1797]

Because your car can do 140mph does that mean you do it? I will leave you with that.....

The car will only rev as high as you choose to rev it.

I was giving him background on the APR 3++ software... but good job on trying to look cool.

An in response to cams.... most of the cams will shift the curve to the right and reduce spool time on a BAT.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

try to look cool give me break besides I know im cool .

[eg6siR]

rofl.. we drive audi's, we're all cool!! haha

i am really considering the apr 3 + and building the motor after i find a truck for daily driving.. then maybe the 3++ or something...

[20vturbo]

I am selling my apr 3+ kit complete for 3500$ PM if interested

[rxrep]

rofl.. we drive audi's, we're all cool!! haha

i am really considering the apr 3 + and building the motor after i find a truck for daily driving.. then maybe the 3++ or something...

Well, the 3+ install in and of itself is very easy. I ripped my 3+ down to the block when I wrapped TP and put turbo in a blanket and I had it all out and back in in like 2 hours.
There are some tricks I learned from the initial install that helped, so if you're going the 3+ route, let me know and I'd be glad to help out.
There are some stupid things that you learn the hard way that are so easy if you'd know them up front.

[Groove1797]

I am selling my apr 3+ kit complete for 3500$ PM if interested

is the software included or do you have to pay the 1200 to APR again?