My $4,000 HRE 542 MISTAKE

[4RingRook]

edit.

[spooled951]

that sucks man i feel you

[spooled951]

and how the hell does this happen?

[R1NSE]

I would print out the thread and your pm's. That would be your written contract. And sue his ass in small claims court for fraud. No attorneys ... just you vs. him. Where are you? I see that he is in Jersey. If it isn't too much of a hassle, then I would do that.

PM me if you have any questions. I am an attorney.

[A4Dit]

Since he stated this qoute in his thread-

The condition of EACH one of the wheels is absolutely perfect.

I feel he is obligated to refund your money. What a scumbag.

[ny2flb7a4]

Sorry to hear about this man. I hope it works out for you.

[smartbabo]

If the seller were to contact hre about the warranty repairs, would he still have to pay?

Keep all correspondence and try to reason with the seller. Both of you should work something out. If all fails, take all your correspondence and head to small claims court.

[4RingRook]

edit.

[GQ//S4]

Legally the seller would be liable, as its false sales pretenses, I believe. Time to check with an Attorney and find out for sure, then if he doesn't refund/return, take him to court, and I am completely serious about that.

[Eurotuned_A4]

I would print out the thread and your pm's. That would be your written contract. And sue his ass in small claims court for fraud. No attorneys ... just you vs. him. Where are you? I see that he is in Jersey. If it isn't too much of a hassle, then I would do that.

PM me if you have any questions. I am an attorney.

listen to this guy!!

[4RingRook]

edit.

[A4 KiDD 810]

So its completely uncommmon to have vibration at high speeds ? I thought it was due to low-pro tires. I actually have the BFG KDWs as well.

[4RingRook]

I would print out the thread and your pm's. That would be your written contract. And sue his ass in small claims court for fraud. No attorneys ... just you vs. him. Where are you? I see that he is in Jersey. If it isn't too much of a hassle, then I would do that.

PM me if you have any questions. I am an attorney.

YGPM.

[1SICKAUDI]

Final price drop to $2500+shipping. These are just taking up space in my garage at this point. Again, these are in their original boxes in their original packaging with the protective plastic still on them! These were completely redone by HRE themselves and are identical to buying a brand new set of wheels.

If you're interested please email me at jcovit(at)gmail.com. I am located in the NJ/NY area and local pick up would be great though shipping is certainly possible!

You mean $4,000 with the cost of tires?
Anyways, false advertisement here, I can see.

[4RingRook]

So its completely uncommmon to have vibration at high speeds ? I thought it was due to low-pro tires. I actually have the BFG KDWs as well.

Some vibration is expected b/c of the tread on the tire. However, excessive vibration was caused by runout.

[Groove1797]

So its completely uncommmon to have vibration at high speeds ? I thought it was due to low-pro tires. I actually have the BFG KDWs as well.

YES! go get your wheels checked for roundness and if that's gravy then get them rebalanced.

[4RingRook]

You mean $4,000 with the cost of tires?
Anyways, false advertisement here, I can see.

The $4000 includes the wheels, travel (i drove 2 hours both ways to pick them up), parts (new HRE lugs), new tires, and balancing attempts (3).

The wheels themselves were $2500. When I contacted the seller, I said at the very least, I would like half of my money back. He wanted no part of that, and its the buyers responsibility.

[Louis J.]

This sucks and I understand why you're angry but one thing your post doesn't address is that his ad states that these are fully reconditioned by HRE and that he never mounted them after he received them. On that basis, I fail to see any misrepresentation on the condition of the wheels. There is no way that he could've known they were out of round if he never mounted them after he got them back from HRE and the wheels would be otherwise in perfect condition. The only misrepresentation I see is the transferable warranty and I would think that any reasonable person, if they were approached the right way, would be willing to cooperate with you to ensure you have the wheels repaired by HRE under warranty. Have you asked if he's willing to send them back under "his" warranty for repair?

Edit: I wrote this on your first post only. If the wheels were refinished because they were bent and he doesn't want to help, my suggestions may not be very helpful.

[Capt. Obvious]

Sorry to read this. I considered picking these wheels up myself when they were on eBay a while back, glad I didn't now. How did you pay for these wheels, cash, credit card, PayPal?

Hopefully the piece of shit seller will grow a pair and make things right. If you do decide to sell them, send me a PM, maybe we can work something out.

[A4 KiDD 810]

Some vibration is expected b/c of the tread on the tire. However, excessive vibration was caused by runout.

Ahh i see. I was getting a little worried, lol. I bought my wheels used too with tires already on them, but there was no visible damage so I was thinking "oh s***" when i heard about the vibration lol.

[1SICKAUDI]

The $4000 includes the wheels, travel (i drove 2 hours both ways to pick them up), parts (new HRE lugs), new tires, and balancing attempts (3).

The wheels themselves were $2500. When I contacted the seller, I said at the very least, I would like half of my money back. He wanted no part of that, and its the buyers responsibility.

Well, we've got witnesses here, and I hope everything works out for you.

[4RingRook]

This sucks and I understand why you're angry but one thing your post doesn't address is that his ad states that these are fully reconditioned by HRE and that he never mounted them after he received them. On that basis, I fail to see any misrepresentation on the condition of the wheels. There is no way that he could've known they were out of round if he never mounted them after he got them back from HRE and the wheels would be otherwise in perfect condition. The only misrepresentation I see is the transferable warranty and I would think that any reasonable person, if they were approached the right way, would be willing to cooperate with you to ensure you have the wheels repaired by HRE under warranty. Have you asked if he's willing to send them back under "his" warranty for repair?

The seller wants no part of these wheels now. He made it perfectly clear that he wants me to work with HRE directly, "but wants me to keep him posted on how I make out."

Keep in mind that I didnt call this guy screaming like a lunatic. I just sent him an email saying that we have a problem with the wheels, and I dont know what to do.

[Capt. Obvious]

Ahh i see. I was getting a little worried, lol. I bought my wheels used too with tires already on them, but there was no visible damage so I was thinking "oh s***" when i heard about the vibration lol.

Weren't your wheels on a Mercedes before you bought them? Did you get the hubcentric rings I told you to get so that they wouldn't vibrate on the freeway?

[4RingRook]

Sorry to read this. I considered picking these wheels up myself when they were on eBay a while back, glad I didn't now. How did you pay for these wheels, cash, credit card, PayPal?

Hopefully the piece of shit seller will grow a pair and make things right. If you do decide to sell them, send me a PM, maybe we can work something out.

Gave him a $100 check via snail mail for deposit, and paid the remaining $2400 in cash. I'm very tempted to just unload the entire set, take the hit, learn the lesson and move on. ygpm.

[Louis J.]

The seller wants no part of these wheels now. He made it perfectly clear that he wants me to work with HRE directly, "but wants me to keep him posted on how I make out."

Keep in mind that I didnt call this guy screaming like a lunatic. I just sent him an email saying that we have a problem with the wheels, and I dont know what to do.

I edited my post above. I thought maybe the wheels could've gotten bent during shipping or maybe HRE didn't mount the barrels properly and/or it didn't go through QC before they were shipped. Obviously this is not the case and the seller is evading responsibility. Good luck.

[4RingRook]

Thanks for all the well wishes guys. I appreciate the input! I shouldn't have to pay for this!

[grimlock]

Wow man, sorry to hear about this I agree w/ Capt. that the seller is a complete douchebag and you in no way should have to take any kind of financial hit. Regardless of whether or not he had mounted the wheels after they were refinished, the fact remains that the condition of the wheels was falsely represented. Definitely get the law involved here, as it's on your side, especially since you have all the transcripts and PMs. Also throw up a thread on the feedback forum so that no one gets duped by this scumbag again. The bad karma will catch up w/ him sooner or later, good luck

[Sly Raskal]

Damn dude, sorry to hear about this!

[4RingRook]

I just dug this email up from the seller on 3/19 regarding the repair of the wheels. It is IMPORTANT TO NOTE that this email was from BEFORE THE SALES TRANSACTION TOOK PLACE.

"Now, the refinishing. They were refinished because the wheels were discovered to have been part of a production run that did not meet the quality control expectations now set at HRE. At first, one wheel got a severe bend without having hit any particularly memorable road hazard. It was sent to HRE for an expensive repair which included an entirely new barrel using a higher grade aluminum and a powdercoated center. In only a few more months, the other wheels were all severely damaged without having hit any major road hazard and this is when I knew something was up. HRE was contacted and I demanded these wheels be completely retooled/refinished. At first they balked at this demand but soon realized that their conduct (in not telling me about this shoddy production run) was bordering on negligence and that they were putting me at risk by not bringing these wheels up to their typically high quality. So, the remaining three wheels received new barrels using T6-6061 aluminum, had their centers checked for balance and micro-cracking and then powdercoated. As I had mentioned in the thread, these wheels are, for all intents and purposes, brand new and are now up to the same quality we all expect from HRE. In fact, I'd feel far more comfortable putting these HREs on my car because I know they've been verified to be up to par. Another set of HREs may yet prove to be part of that same production run that was prone to failure." -- nice sales pitch.

From an email on 3/19 before the explanation on the repair: "The wheels are in brand new condition in all of their original packaging and with the protective plastic still on and never removed."

[davis449]

Shit, if he was a half way nice guy, he would have at least offered to have the repairs done in HIS name and just had you ship the wheels off to HRE for re-finishing again. Then at least the warranty would be valid. However, that being said, I have some suspicions as to why he would, in fact, insist that YOU and only YOU deal with HRE. Did he know something and not tell you? Like, maybe, the warranty wasn't valid anymore anyway? Who knows...sometimes we all learn the hard way.

[4RingRook]

His email from last night in response to me telling him that the wheels are out of round, thus NOT BRAND NEW.

"That said, at no point can it ever be assumed that an item bought through a private sale would have any warranty or guarantee. All items bought in a private sale are assumed, unless otherwise stated, to be as-is. There is an inherent risk that a buyer must consider. Really all a buyer must demand is that the transaction is dealt with honestly and I believe I have been very forthright and clear (and helpful). Never once have I indicated that these wheels were brand new wheels. I explicitely state in my sale ad on the forums, and on the Ebay auctions, that these wheels were refinished and retooled. Stating these wheels to be in "brand new" condition does not mean you are buying a brand new set of wheels; that can only be gotten by buying direct.

I believe this is a matter that you must try to pursue the issue more aggressively with HRE. I understand that the hassle is unwelcome and unexpected. But I believe that you will have most success in obtaining what you want, which is an exclusive and high quality set of custom forged wheels, through HRE.

Please keep me posted on your dealings with HRE and I will forward you whatever correspondence I have from them concerning their repair of the wheels. I am quite infuriated myself with their conduct and I want to see them do what is right for the consumers involved, both you and me. A custom wheel company like DPE, which got its starts on the E46Fanatics BMW forum, regularly examines defects in wheels posted about on the forums and often agrees to repair the wheel at no charge to the customer. This is the kind of service you must demand of a company that practically started the high-end custom forged wheel market... HRE."

Not a nice guy. Wants no part of this headache. He's just blowing me off.

Shit, if he was a half way nice guy, he would have at least offered to have the repairs done in HIS name and just had you ship the wheels off to HRE for re-finishing again. Then at least the warranty would be valid. However, that being said, I have some suspicions as to why he would, in fact, insist that YOU and only YOU deal with HRE. Did he know something and not tell you? Like, maybe, the warranty wasn't valid anymore anyway? Who knows...sometimes we all learn the hard way.

[4-tified]

Hey guys,

The last price he offered was $2500 + shipping.
That's your cost.
If you are counting the price of new tires, don't.
Even in court the cost of the tires won't be counted.

Are you sure the hop is not from the tires?
Did the tire shop tech put just the wheels on the balancer, not tires mounted?
Make sure the hop is from wheel radial and lateral runout and not from the new tires, which can have all kinds of runout.

So, you paid $2500 for the wheels and it will cost about $600 to get them straight, and then they'll be quite nice.
I think the seller owes you the cost of truing the wheels, if indeed they are bent.
I didn't see anywhere where the wheels were represented as brand new. In fact, they were represented as used.
However, he also said and implied that he KNOW's the condition of the wheels to be comparable to new wheels of the same type.
Thus, he does imply more than "as-is".
Further, he stated that the warranty is transferable, again, that's beyond "as-is".

As far as warranty, the seller did lie to you. He should have checked that, but so you should have too.

Ask him to pay for the repair.
Also, push HRE into explaining fully what was done to the wheels when the seller sent them to be repaired.
Also, ask HRE how the repair and wheels were tested for acceptable runout.

Are you sure the wheels were not used since HRE sent the wheels back to the seller?
Did you inspect the wheels to make sure they looked brand new?
A brand new wheel, which is what he claims they were once repaired, should have absolutely clean lips with NO signs of tire install scuffing or marks.

It also sounds like he was stating that the wheels bent for NO REASON other than a manufacturers defect.
Well, we all know that wheels don't just bend for NO REASON. Granted, the wheels can be soft and easily prone to bending, but they don't just bend from the weight of the vehicle.
That's why I would like to know what HRE has to say about what was repaired and why.

Overall the seller was deceptive in that the wheels did not have a warranty and he did state that the wheels were in like new condition, implying they are true and straight. Even if he didn't know for sure, he did state it. He can't know claim ignorance after he already made the claim in writing for all to see.
He even compared his price offer to the cost of a brand new set, implying that the wheels compared to a new set.

However, he did NOT present the wheels as brand new, and he stated that they were not by the very description of the wheels story and background. Still, that doesn't mean he sold the wheels "as is".

[Phrost]

That really sucks man, I'm sorry... I remember seeing these wheels for sale and I was eyeing them up but didn't want to buy used without tires.

Have you tried to get the seller to get them repaired in his name, and tell him that you want to keep the wheels? I really don't know what to tell you... They are not new, they are reconditioned (as stated in the thread) and the seller sold them after thinking they were perfectly reconditioned so I don't really think he is liable. HRE is at fault, but the seller SHOULD take them back to make HRE repair the out of roundness (at your expense probably, if at all) but HRE did say it has been too long so they won't do it. So with that said, I think you are out of luck.

All you can do IMO is send them to HRE, eat the costs, and have them make sure the wheels themselves are balanced, or else sell them stating that the buyer will have to do just that. That's too much money to just let them sit and do nothing, I would just get them repaired and ask the seller if he'll pay half or at least help with the cost since he said they had a transferable warranty.

That, or else make the seller buy them back, assuming it has been less than 30 or so days and they are in the exact same condition.

[Noffy]

this is a no brainer small claims court case. Get what you can back from him through court if neccessary, you might get some money, you will get lots of satisfaction, and you might get on Judge Judy.

good luck.

[4RingRook]

Do you think I should go back to the seller one more time with all of this info and give him one more chance to make it right (chip in for repairs, buy them back, whatever), or should I just let my lawyer send him a letter?

[quattrotman]

You might be better off just geting them fixed and take as a life lesson...court might be a real PITA.
This exact thing happened with me and the Oetty's I bought....but it was the refinishing shop's fault. When I sent them into to get re-sprayerd, they seperated the lips from the wheel (2 piece) but did not mark the wheels. So when they bolted them back together they did not line up the rivets to the way they were before. Apparantly this will cause a vibration (and it did no matter how many time they were balanced).
Luckily the shop took em back, seperated the rims and straightened them and re-assembled. They said it wasn't a big deal and now they're perfect. You might just wanna take em into a refinisher to see if they can straighten them out....might not even cost that much.

[Rapter]

Make a print out ASAP before he tries to modify the thread.

[Louis J.]

Do you think I should go back to the seller one more time with all of this info and give him one more chance to make it right (chip in for repairs, buy them back, whatever), or should I just let my lawyer send him a letter?

I don't understand why people always jump on the legal dispute bandwagon the moment something is slightly sideways. Any judge will tell you that most disputes arise out of simple misunderstandings that can be easily negotiated. Please don't contribute to the disease.

I'd go back to the seller, explain your situation and get him to put himself in your shoes. Hopefully he'll realize that he misrepresented the warranty and that you were left to hold the bag on his defective product. If he's got any integrity at all, he should help, at least by negotiating a repair from HRE. If that doesn't work, call HRE and make your case with a manager. Send them a link to the thread and point out how bad their company looks and tell them you'll gladly continue to share your story until the ultimatly responsible party (HRE) makes it right. If all that fails, take'em both to court.

[Phrost]

There can't be any harm in trying to get him to 50/50 in repairs or something, but I would try to sell them back first... even at a little discount. You might as well try this first IMO as it would be the easy way out of your bad situation.

Then, you can gather some legal info, and threaten to take legal action if he doesn't comply. Hell, I've heard of lawyers writing up a quick page on info threatening to sue, then paying a sheriff $100 or something to personally deliver it and scare the fack out of the defendant.

Suing should really be a last resort though... but sometimes it's the only way

[SGVA4]

This is the reason why we need to get itrader ratings up. Although it still does not stop frauders alike, but atleast we will some sort of peace of mind when dealing with another member.

It was his duty to explain the situation of the wheels up front NOT after you've bought them.