Results of V8 Dyno Day 4 B6 S4's, 1 B7 S4, and 1 B8 S5

[B18b1ex]

I am happy we all got together to get this done, the results were very close. Even though the cars involved had different modifications. I took pics and made a video. I will post the graphs but I'm tired so here is the video, pics and graphs to come.
Please enjoy, we did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjRijARL0oA



Emeric's s4 Stock Avus 18", FI fullback H-pipe non res. Giac 93 octane


Matt's S4 Stock Avus 18", FI fullback X-pipe, Stratmosphere intake


Mike's S4 18" OZ UltraLeggera, Apr dp's, Milltek Catback, Apr Chip 93 Octane


Sean's S4 Champion 19", K&N Drop in filter, Labree Resonated Catback


Matt's S5 360 forged 20" Milltek Catback, Stratmosphere Intake


Charles' S4 18" RS4 Reps, Labree fullexhaust resonated w/o the rear muffler just straight pipes and tips.

[bklein8888]

that yellow B7 is insanity! sounds like a rapist for sure. it has a labree setup but what are the specifics? the text was a bit small...nice compilation! those are some badass V8s!

[Alister]

that yellow B7 is insanity! sounds like a rapist for sure. it has a labree setup but what are the specifics?

Yep, it certainly makes some noise!! [O_O]

I definitely couldn't live with that - happy with the sound my non-res Milltek makes!

[b00st]

everyone seems to be right in the 290s. some 291 or 294...seems to be some magic number.

[Jrunr]

Man, how the hell does BHVDR make 320WHP? Damn! I have yet to see anone else duplicate that!

[b00st]

its just a number...which was probably taken from the generous dyno. he did this dynotesting from different dynos...on one it was 262 from a dyno dynamics and he did 299 on a mustang dyno. they are all calibrated differently...so to me...post what you want....it only means something to your own car. baseline vs mods. and if it was done and test on the same day.

[B18b1ex]

that yellow B7 is insanity! sounds like a rapist for sure. it has a labree setup but what are the specifics? the text was a bit small...nice compilation! those are some badass V8s!

He had a resonated Labree setup, but he took out the mufflers and welded tips.

[B18b1ex]

Man, how the hell does BHVDR make 320WHP? Damn! I have yet to see anone else duplicate that!

Maybe conditions were better on that day.


Our conditions changed a little through the day:

Temp 88-98
Humidity 49%-30%
the pressure no real change.

The correction factor was 1.03, and the graph smoothing was set to 3.

On this day Mike's car still made the most power and torque.

[bhvrdr]

Man, how the hell does BHVDR make 320WHP? Damn! I have yet to see anone else duplicate that!

Yeah, like Sean said...you never know. So many factors can affect numbers. I have never dynod on a dyno dynamics but made my high numbers on a Mustang. It isnt the first time I have seen a dyno jet read lower then a Mustang although many will claim differently but some folks who visited three different dynos on their car have posted the same. Add to that, if you probably took all of these cars to KY and dynod them on a nice cool day then everyone would be making more power. I also dynod in KY with 55K on the clock and new plugs and fuel filter. I have over 80K on it now. Regardless, I think what was really nice to see is the amount of torque compared to hp folks all made with their exhausts. These cars come 340/300 crank and as you can see folks were doing around 290/290 to the wheels in many cases on the dyno. These are really nice gains down low. Thanks for putting this together Sean.

cheers! mike

[Jrunr]

Mike, you know me... i am just jealous... lol But I have ALWAYS been impressed with the work you put into your car and the numbers you have gotten... People can say what they want about the dynos, you also still havethe fastest S4 1/4mile time as well, so it tells me that your numbers are legit.

How is the ol' girl running these days? Any new and exciting plans?

[S|Quattro|4]

Damn, I wish I couldve gone. Sean, let me know if youre going to do it again.

[emericr]

Sean:

This was quick turnaround on video. Congrats and again thanks for organizing this event.
Absolutely phenomenal.
It was quite interesting that we all pulled about the same numbers.
Sean's car was the same as all others even though he does not have DPs. This confirmed that his car is one of the better ones out there.
This also confirmed that third party softwares did not help the hp or tq numbers as claimed. I know we did not have any pure "stock" cars but 3 were non chipped and 2 were (one Giac, one APR).
As Mike said, what people should learn out of this test is the increase in torque numbers from stock with a good set of dps and cbs. At around 290 at the wheel, this translates to around 360 crank (used conservative 20% loss) vs 300 stock. Substantial difference that is easily felt driving.
I hope to see all you guys soon for another fun day. The invite at my place in Naples for a BBQ is open. Let me know.

Emeric

[2PUTT]

3rd or 4th gear pulls?

[RAudi Driver]

I am happy we all got together to get this done, the results were very close. Even though the cars involved had different modifications. I took pics and made a video. I will post the graphs but I'm tired so here is the video, pics and graphs to come.
Please enjoy, we did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjRijARL0oA

That was a good watch! Thanks for taking the time to post that video.

[B18b1ex]

3rd or 4th gear pulls?

We did both, in the video it says 3rd and 4th respectively with the results.

I thought I could post the graphs from work but they are now blocking photobucket. So when I get home I'll update.

[B18b1ex]

Updated with pics, specs and dyno sheets.

[channad]

so it looks like mid-290s...not bad. The results look very similar, even though people had different mods.

[Dodge2Dub]

I'm surprised to see that the chips made little/no difference (although those with chips could have had slower factory cars, but I doubt it). I'm surprised because I felt a world of difference with my chip in terms of the power delivery and absolute power.

[B18b1ex]

I'm surprised to see that the chips made little/no difference (although those with chips could have had slower factory cars, but I doubt it). I'm surprised because I felt a world of difference with my chip in terms of the power delivery and absolute power.

We all kind of said I should throw a set of dp's on my car and see if I could get 300 whp. If some on local had a set laying around maybe we could try it.

How long do they take to install?

[intoblue]

Many thanks to you Sean for putting this together. I was very happy with the results compared to my first dyno run at USP. And it was also great to have comparative runs with other like vehicles.
Level vibes rootsman.

[Mello]

Man, I'm diggin' that yellow B7.

Why no 5th gear pulls? Isn't 5th closest to a 1:1 ratio?

[B18b1ex]

Man, I'm diggin' that yellow B7.

Why no 5th gear pulls? Isn't 5th closest to a 1:1 ratio?

No one ever does it, so the numbers would mean nothing to most of us.

[Das General]

you can't compare different dynos and their numbers. ive seen s4's with full exhaust, tune and intake put down 260/270.

some of those s4's sound pretty mean. seems like a downpipe only adds to the grunt of v8 as opposed to any power.

[Dodge2Dub]

you can't compare different dynos and their numbers. ive seen s4's with full exhaust, tune and intake put down 260/270.

some of those s4's sound pretty mean. seems like a downpipe only adds to the grunt of v8 as opposed to any power.

Hmm, I don't know about that. I'm able to pull on stock MT's and I'm a TIP.

[Mello]

No one ever does it, so the numbers would mean nothing to most of us.

What the heck is the point then? You're numbers are reading higher then they actually are(although 4th is closer to 1:1 than 3rd is), not to mention they are in STD instead of SAE correction factor, i.e. read higher.

Sorry, but I don't see this showing anything on what mods gain what .

Nice vid though, thanks for putting it together.

[B18b1ex]

What the heck is the point then? You're numbers are reading higher then they actually are(although 4th is closer to 1:1 than 3rd is), not to mention they are in STD instead of SAE correction factor, i.e. read higher.

Sorry, but I don't see this showing anything on what mods gain what .

Nice vid though, thanks for putting it together.

Okay, I have never seen some dyno any s4 in 5th ever, I've seen 3rd and 4th so that's what we went with. I'm not sure what the difference is between STD and SAE corrections, but the bottom line is that all 6 cars were run in the same manner, at approximately the same conditions. I don't think the numbers are inflated remember one of these cars has run a 335 pretty much dead even with no chip or dp's the numbers seem about right to me.

Here is the 335 race: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX6hTiLnGII

In the end the six of us can compare or cars to each other and that is it, we are all aware of all the factors that make inter-dyno numbers useless.

[b00st]

what i see is...cars that have very little gains with the bolt-ons...makes me wonder what they would have dyno'd stock. like sean who has a labree catback or matt. and as we know...there is really no gains to be had from a catback. yet his numbers are as good as someone with dp's, cb, and ecu.

makes you wonder whether you should buy any of it at all. unless you like sound, and the looks.

[bhvrdr]

what i see is...cars that have very little gains with the bolt-ons...makes me wonder what they would have dyno'd stock. like sean who has a labree catback or matt. and as we know...there is really no gains to be had from a catback. yet his numbers are as good as someone with dp's, cb, and ecu.

makes you wonder whether you should buy any of it at all. unless you like sound, and the looks.

I'd disagree with that. Look at the numbers. Again, stock the cars are making 40 more hp then torque. And these S4 cars are putting out almost identical hp and tq numbers to the wheels, not to mention torque at the wheels that is close to the crank torque rating. There's no question the exhausts are helping the low end. If anything i'm starting to question the rumors that catbacks produce no gains. I'd like to go back and see if anyone who has stated this did before and after runs to see if it really is the case.

Of course there's also the thing that we've never ever seen a stock S4 dyno those number on any dyno and never seen a stock one run 13.2s even by professional drivers much less one that has been to the 1/4 mile less then 10 times in his life. Then theres the fact that the S4 cars dynod higher then the 354hp 325tq S5 (stock crank) that had a catback. I agree though and we were all saying that it really would have been nice to have a stock S4 there....really nice.

[Das General]

Hmm, I don't know about that. I'm able to pull on stock MT's and I'm a TIP.

you don't know about what?

[Mello]

I'd disagree with that. Look at the numbers.

3rd gear is no where near 1:1 ratio(highest numbers you are looking at). The third gear number should not even be noted. This reminds me of the supra guys running their cars once on the dyno @ 40 psi of boost and telling everyone they have a 1000 whp car when they putt around at 15 psi.

1st Gear Ratio 3.67:1
2nd Gear Ratio 2.05:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.46:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.13:1
5th Gear Ratio 0.92:1
6th Gear Ratio 0.78:1

While 4th is close, 5th would be the gear to dyno in w/ a SAE correction factor to be on an equal playing field for people in different parts of the country to compare.

[bakos4]

Anyone do some runs to see how they stacked up against the S5?

[whyb2nd]

so it looks like mid-290s...not bad. The results look very similar, even though people had different mods.

Exactly, why spend the bucks for little return. buy catback exhaust if you need the sound, don't expect more hp/tq though.

[b00st]

I'd disagree with that. Look at the numbers. Again, stock the cars are making 40 more hp then torque. And these S4 cars are putting out almost identical hp and tq numbers to the wheels, not to mention torque at the wheels that is close to the crank torque rating. There's no question the exhausts are helping the low end. If anything i'm starting to question the rumors that catbacks produce no gains. I'd like to go back and see if anyone who has stated this did before and after runs to see if it really is the case.

Of course there's also the thing that we've never ever seen a stock S4 dyno those number on any dyno and never seen a stock one run 13.2s even by professional drivers much less one that has been to the 1/4 mile less then 10 times in his life. Then theres the fact that the S4 cars dynod higher then the 354hp 325tq S5 (stock crank) that had a catback. I agree though and we were all saying that it really would have been nice to have a stock S4 there....really nice.

still doesn't make sense that a just catback car dyno's as much as one with all the bolt-ons does it? are the two cars freaks of audi nature?

i agree that having a stock B6 S4 dyno that day would have been key. but it still leaves me wondering.

i know you ran a 13.2 and someone else did. but really what was he running before hand? that guy was ECU and catback same as my brother and ran a 13.2....does that mean my brother runs a 13.2? what about me then...cuz we were tied

the fact is that we can't really compare dynos or 1/4 mile times...you may run 13.2s where you live...but maybe here thats a 13.6 or something...so does that really mean anything? if i'm running all day 13.6 here in chicago and then go to say NJ and run a 13.2...same 60 foot...prolly same trap....its all the same. different factors in the area.

[Quattroownsyou]

Decent numbers...the V8 is stout.

More importantly the area under the graph looks good. The chipped cars seem to push the powerband a little further along, despite the numbers all being close. Nice flat torque curves also...

[bhvrdr]

3rd gear is no where near 1:1 ratio(highest numbers you are looking at). The third gear number should not even be noted. This reminds me of the supra guys running their cars once on the dyno @ 40 psi of boost and telling everyone they have a 1000 whp car when they putt around at 15 psi.

1st Gear Ratio 3.67:1
2nd Gear Ratio 2.05:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.46:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.13:1
5th Gear Ratio 0.92:1
6th Gear Ratio 0.78:1

While 4th is close, 5th would be the gear to dyno in w/ a SAE correction factor to be on an equal playing field for people in different parts of the country to compare.

I'm not sure why you are stuck on 5th gear. No it would not be comparable to other people's numbers since I have NEVER seen an Audi dynod in 5th gear out of the hundreds of dynos out there from around the country. I've seen third and fourth used, exclusively. You find me one done in fifth. And you did notice that even though 3rd gear is "no where close" that we produced numbers that were withing 5hp/tq of our 4th gear numbers. It doesnt make as big of a difference as people think.

cheers! Mike

[bhvrdr]

still doesn't make sense that a just catback car dyno's as much as one with all the bolt-ons does it? are the two cars freaks of audi nature?

i agree that having a stock B6 S4 dyno that day would have been key. but it still leaves me wondering.

i know you ran a 13.2 and someone else did. but really what was he running before hand? that guy was ECU and catback same as my brother and ran a 13.2....does that mean my brother runs a 13.2? what about me then...cuz we were tied

the fact is that we can't really compare dynos or 1/4 mile times...you may run 13.2s where you live...but maybe here thats a 13.6 or something...so does that really mean anything? if i'm running all day 13.6 here in chicago and then go to say NJ and run a 13.2...same 60 foot...prolly same trap....its all the same. different factors in the area.

Ok, but if you take the above into account and you factor in that we have never ever seen a stock S4 that puts down 300tq to the crank go on a dyno and put down 295tq to the wheels and you take into account all the S4 cars were dynoing higher than a 354hp and 325tq S5 that was modified I think it's safe to make some assumptions that the cars got more power. I agree with you about the catback which is what i was saying...perhaps a catback is indeed worth the money. I'd like to see more on that.

[Dodge2Dub]

you don't know about what?

Somebody mentioned that the downpipe only adds to the grunt of v8 as opposed to any power....I disagree.

[Mello]

I'm not sure why you are stuck on 5th gear. No it would not be comparable to other people's numbers since I have NEVER seen an Audi dynod in 5th gear out of the hundreds of dynos out there from around the country. I've seen third and fourth used, exclusively. You find me one done in fifth. And you did notice that even though 3rd gear is "no where close" that we produced numbers that were withing 5hp/tq of our 4th gear numbers. It doesnt make as big of a difference as people think.

cheers! Mike

Mike, the very fist car in the vid showed 292/287 in 3rd and 278/275 in 4th. While the others were close, I do think 5 awhp is a big difference when trying to figure out if certain mods make the power they claim, especially on a NA car like ours. I can't show you any 5th gear video because I've never searched for one, nor care to as modding means nothing to me with these cars until someone comes out with a forced induction kit here in the states. Call up any shop that has a dyno and they will tell you the optimal gear to dyno in is the closest to 1:1 ratio. Like I said, 4th gear is close enough, but I cannot understand why anyone would do it in 3rd other than to get higher numbers(I have over 100 dyno pulls under my belt between 4 cars, not just pulling this out of my ass).

I'm not here to argue, just stating my opinion.

[b00st]

Ok, but if you take the above into account and you factor in that we have never ever seen a stock S4 that puts down 300tq to the crank go on a dyno and put down 295tq to the wheels and you take into account all the S4 cars were dynoing higher than a 354hp and 325tq S5 that was modified I think it's safe to make some assumptions that the cars got more power. I agree with you about the catback which is what i was saying...perhaps a catback is indeed worth the money. I'd like to see more on that.

if this was really the case. my brother's milltek cb and ecu should have walked me. considering we raced before his bolt-ons and after. there was no change. since the car has 302tq stock. and i'm not sure what the DT loss was set at . but seeing 290/290 doesn't make sense. if we did DT loss on the 290tq at 15% then its 333.7tq....if we took it at 22% 353 and this just wouldn't make sense. we don't gain no 51tq out of the deal.

[bhvrdr]

if this was really the case. my brother's milltek cb and ecu should have walked me. considering we raced before his bolt-ons and after. there was no change. since the car has 302tq stock. and i'm not sure what the DT loss was set at . but seeing 290/290 doesn't make sense. if we did DT loss on the 290tq at 15% then its 333.7tq....if we took it at 22% 353 and this just wouldn't make sense. we don't gain no 51tq out of the deal.

I dont know about "walking" people though. One thing I never ever count on is street pulls. I've seen cars that are 1.5 seconds different from each other in the 1/4 mile that can go wither way on street pulls depending on driver. Our cars are picking up a half second in the 1/4 mile even if you believe they have another 50hp so you're just not going to see that transfer to anything you would see by "street pulls" anyways.

Keep in mind that on dynos you lose drivetrain loss differently across the rev band. This is why you cannot apply the same 22% or 25% quattro drivetrain loss to both the peak hp and tq numbers. Technnically you cannot apply them the exact same anywhere in the rpm band. If you do a true parastic run down test to show the losses you find that it varries completely across the rev band. When we did a parastics on the A4 on a dynojet (something the dyno operator rarely does and did not do in this instance) we found about 12% loss down at 3000rpm while it was more in the 24% range up at 6000rpm. That was that dyno but there is no question there is less drivetrain loss down low. Even so, it isnt 1% like the 297 wtq would have you think. and it isnt a negative number for those of us who have dynod over 300wtq.