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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Horsepower Guesstimate

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    I am curious.

    Given my trap speed (119.77), typical 1/4 mile A4 performance.... What do you think my AWHP numbers might be?

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings gotaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    ~340-360AWHP is my guess
    BetaAlphaTau Member#22
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    73 74 69 6c 6c 20 73 6c 6f 77 <--- Look it up

  3. #3
    Senior Member Three Rings spxxx's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    what is your setup?
    Laser Red 1.8tqm GT2X pc16 --> sold

    REVO + 034 Goodies >>> B6 A4 1.8tqm

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    ^ Personally the car feels around that range, but the numbers don't match.

    I have seen 400 AWHP audi's trap around 114 or so... and most 28 series making 300 -330 awhp trap around 108-109... You need more than 30 AWHP to trap 10 MPH higher.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    7 unicornpower.
    2001 A4 Avant 2.0t comp CT4 5858 Maestro Tune
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings gotaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    7 unicornpower.

    LOL
    BetaAlphaTau Member#22
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    73 74 69 6c 6c 20 73 6c 6f 77 <--- Look it up

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings gotaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    ^ Personally the car feels around that range, but the numbers don't match.

    I have seen 400 AWHP audi's trap around 114 or so... and most 28 series making 300 -330 awhp trap around 108-109... You need more than 30 AWHP to trap 10 MPH higher.
    A Stage 3 S4 will put around 400WHP down, they weigh about 300Lbs more, and will do what you do in the 1/4 mile on pump (i think) so for you to get the same time with less wieght your Hp would be less. Just go get it dynoed.
    BetaAlphaTau Member#22
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    73 74 69 6c 6c 20 73 6c 6f 77 <--- Look it up

  8. #8
    Senior Member Three Rings bernB5's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    how much boost were you running?

  9. #9
    Active Member Four Rings bassed's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    7 unicornpower.
    .1 Noobercorns


    I'm thinking about 360ish

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings Solaris's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    See what this calculator on dragtimes.com says

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by gotaudi View Post
    A Stage 3 S4 will put around 400WHP down, they weigh about 300Lbs more, and will do what you do in the 1/4 mile on pump (i think) so for you to get the same time with less wieght your Hp would be less. Just go get it dynoed.
    I will never know, because we are about to pull the head off and when it goes back on............... well you can guess the rest.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings gotaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    what are your plans for the head?
    BetaAlphaTau Member#22
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    73 74 69 6c 6c 20 73 6c 6f 77 <--- Look it up

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings fred2ka4's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    I will never know, because we are about to pull the head off and when it goes back on............... well you can guess the rest.
    Well if you are about to pull the head off, then you should dyno the car because if you plan to do some head work You should want to see what the gains are.
    BetaAlphaTau member #18

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  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by bassed View Post
    .1 Noobercorns


    I'm thinking about 360ish
    You guys will see when you run your car @ the track.......

    I have used those calculators and I just dont know. For example I used the calculator @ dragtimes.com and it said

    Horsepower @ flywheel = 429.90 HP

    So I figure 430 * .75 = 322 AWHP................... THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TRAP ~120 MPH in this car with only 322 AWHP.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by fred2ka4 View Post
    Well if you are about to pull the head off, then you should dyno the car because if you plan to do some head work You should want to see what the gains are.
    no can do....

    not pulling the head because I want to.

    P.S. Can a mod please fix the title of this thread.

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    you can change it yourself. Just double click the title box in the b5 forum page. I was gonna run this weekend but it looks like rain.
    2001 A4 Avant 2.0t comp CT4 5858 Maestro Tune
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Three Rings Solaris's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    You guys will see when you run your car @ the track.......

    I have used those calculators and I just dont know. For example I used the calculator @ dragtimes.com and it said

    Horsepower @ flywheel = 429.90 HP

    So I figure 430 * .75 = 322 AWHP................... THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TRAP ~120 MPH in this car with only 322 AWHP.
    I don't think the drivetrain loss % is constant for all levels of power, so it would be a little less for you. For instance, if a 200HP car makes 150AWHP, why would a 400HP car make 300AWHP while moving the same drivetrain? It should cost the same 50 or so HP.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    you can change it yourself. Just double click the title box in the b5 forum page. I was gonna run this weekend but it looks like rain.
    Thanks for the tip.

    Dammit Poopie you need to do something!!!!!!!!!!!

    But honestly what are you expecting?

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    I don't think the drivetrain loss % is constant for all levels of power, so it would be a little less for you. For instance, if a 200HP car makes 150AWHP, why would a 400HP car make 300AWHP while moving the same drivetrain? It should cost the same 50 or so HP.
    The great debate...................

    I took the best Audi A8 time from dragtimes and plugged it into their calc

    12.6 @ 113.020
    Weight = 3605

    They estimate 381.19 HP ---------- Audi says the car makes 420+


    You see what I mean?

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings CaSp3r9's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    You guys will see when you run your car @ the track.......

    I have used those calculators and I just dont know. For example I used the calculator @ dragtimes.com and it said

    Horsepower @ flywheel = 429.90 HP

    So I figure 430 * .75 = 322 AWHP................... THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TRAP ~120 MPH in this car with only 322 AWHP.
    That's if you're losing 25% of your power through the drive train, which I can pretty much guarantee is not the case. I believe that's for stock HP numbers and even then 25% is on the high side IIRC; I think it's around 23%). The more HP your car has, the less power you lose through Quattro, as a percentage - even though the number of horses(or unicorns) lost is greater.
    I don't really think losing 107.5hp with Quattro is realistic at the 430hp mark. Instead, let's say you lose 18% through Quattro at the 430hp mark, which is 77.4hp. That puts you at 352.6awhp, which is more realistic.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, because I probably am. I'm just going off what makes sense to me.
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  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiA4_20T's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    I think your not making anything because you need to get your car moving first
    - Clint

    Current : 2013 Q5 3.0T Prestige S-Line - 11.6@117 - 034 Stage2+ FBO
    Gone : One of the first ever 2.7T Swaps - White '04 S4 2.7T - Stage 2+
    Gone : Fastest B6 A4 ever - 464awhp/12.1@116

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings CaSp3r9's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    I don't think the drivetrain loss % is constant for all levels of power, so it would be a little less for you. For instance, if a 200HP car makes 150AWHP, why would a 400HP car make 300AWHP while moving the same drivetrain? It should cost the same 50 or so HP.
    You beat me to it! Glad to see I'm not the only one that believes this.
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  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    i would like to trap atleast 120mhp on race fuel which is about 400awhp. No clue on ET, maybe high 11's
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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings CaSp3r9's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Mike needs to chime in, I remember him talking about this but it was a looong time ago.
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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by CaSp3r9 View Post
    You beat me to it! Glad to see I'm not the only one that believes this.
    Lets not go down that road on this thread. We are talking about trap speed as it relates to HP in a Audi A4 (B5 or B6). I don't see 350AWHP trapping 120 in this heavy ass car.

    Audi r8 makes 420 CHP and traps 113 mph.
    04 gallardo, AWD, 500 HP, weighs less than an A4, traps 118 +.
    Last edited by Don Supreme; 04-09-2008 at 06:44 PM.

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings CaSp3r9's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepowr Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    Lets not go down that road on this thread. We are talking about trap speed as it relates to HP in a Audi A4 (B5 or B6). I don't see 350AWHP trapping 120 in this heavy ass car.

    Audi r8 makes 420 CHP and traps 113 mph.
    What road? I think you misunderstood me... I was just saying I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks the percentage of power lost isn't constant at every HP level...

    Or did you mean about Mike? I said that because I remember him having some valuable information about HP loss through the drive train at different HP levels. Trust me, I'm the last person to try and start any drama on here.
    1998.5 A4 1.8tqms, Sold
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  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Well I an one to believes that it IS a constant %.

    The drivetrain loss is from the drag coefficient from the moving parts. It is a multiplying FACTOR so in all power levels so it remains the same.
    2001 A4 Avant 2.0t comp CT4 5858 Maestro Tune
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  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Ok this is for Poopie and for the trap speed to AWHP in an A4 discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigjuice View Post
    You'll be able to make more than 330whp on pump with the 3071R
    With only 17psi I did 320awhp,25psi 415awhp on race gas.
    I was being conservative only revving to 7200rpm & using lower boost than I usually do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigjuice View Post
    After my first spinned, I got another set of exprimental Cats (asymetric) that are pinned.
    Used them once at the track ran 12.2@114 with a 1.9 60'
    No dyno as yet.
    Too much wheelspin.
    It maybe better to get billets...

    confirmed 400 AWHP and trap speed is < 115 .............................

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    dooohhh....thats ok. With the wheel spin and just an okay 60ft time and he still managed a low 12 run, 11's seems obtainable. Although his post a little ambiguous on what boost and such he ran at.

    400 awhp with 23% DTL is still 512 hp at the crank.
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  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    ^ I am not talking about ET......

    Lots of things affect ET. I am sure you can run low 12s, but trapping 120 is another story.

  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    so with all things said....you must be at like 430-440 whp mark right? Just hit the dyno. Plan to drive up in a month and we can all hit a dyno
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  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings CaSp3r9's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    Well I an one to believes that it IS a constant %.

    The drivetrain loss is from the drag coefficient from the moving parts. It is a multiplying FACTOR so in all power levels so it remains the same.
    Yeah, I'm really not sure. I was just going off of what makes sense to me. It seems like the percent of power lost would stay constant but losing 100hp through the drive train at the 400hp mark doesn't make much sense to me, it seems like a lot.

    I was kinda looking at it like a terminal velocity problem; an skydiver can only fall so fast, he doesn't keep accelerating for as long as he falls. Such that, you can only lose so much power through the drive train before it hits a plateau. If this is the case, the percentage of power lost would be inversely proportionate to the amount of hp you're making.

    Now I REALLY wanna know the answer to this haha
    1998.5 A4 1.8tqms, Sold
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  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    well that is a bad example because it actually works agains you.

    in both comparisons you have a force, gravitational and a combustion force. Both forces result in something increasing in velocity at an exponential rate. The opposite force is friction. You can say there is a point where there is so much friction at a certain level to stop HP from developing as well.
    2001 A4 Avant 2.0t comp CT4 5858 Maestro Tune
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  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    so with all things said....you must be at like 430-440 whp mark right? Just hit the dyno. Plan to drive up in a month and we can all hit a dyno
    who knows.....

    When I get everything wrapped up, I don't know if I even have enough injector to safely run on the dyno.

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    are you running 630s? I think you should be fine. Do some loggon on the way up. lol
    2001 A4 Avant 2.0t comp CT4 5858 Maestro Tune
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  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    are you running 630s? I think you should be fine. Do some loggon on the way up. lol
    yeah - 630s @ 4 bar ( some say thats 730cc)

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings CaSp3r9's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    well that is a bad example because it actually works agains you.

    in both comparisons you have a force, gravitational and a combustion force. Both forces result in something increasing in velocity at an exponential rate. The opposite force is friction. You can say there is a point where there is so much friction at a certain level to stop HP from developing as well.
    True, I see what you mean. I was looking at it differently which is prob why it doesn't work.
    1998.5 A4 1.8tqms, Sold
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    I have a VAG-COM if anyone in the Santa Monica area needs it.

  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Supreme View Post
    yeah - 630s @ 4 bar ( some say thats 730cc)
    I think thats plenty of injector. I though 630s at 3 bar could support up to 500 whp on a 4cylinder engine.
    2001 A4 Avant 2.0t comp CT4 5858 Maestro Tune
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  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings Don Supreme's Avatar
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopie View Post
    I think thats plenty of injector. I though 630s at 3 bar could support up to 500 whp on a 4cylinder engine.
    ahhhhhh, I have never seen anything like that.... maybe 500 chp - 550...


    I think I have seen 480 FWHP, but that may have been 4 bar and I know it was on race.

  40. #40
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Horsepower Guesstimate

    hmmm i think you are right. 500chp sounds about right

    an s4 with rs4/rs6 hybrids made a tad over 500whp on pump gas with 630s at 4 bar with 95% injector duty cycle.
    2001 A4 Avant 2.0t comp CT4 5858 Maestro Tune
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