Hsport Sways or CO's?

[okrampf]

I have a stock (other than my 19" RS4 reps) B6 S4 and I'm in a quest to reduce the car's understeer. The car is a daily driver and would see the track about once a year. I would also like to lower the car a bit, but that takes secondary priority.

After doing some research, I'm considering either getting the Hsport RS4 sway bars (F & R) or getting Vogtland GT coilovers. I used to think that just getting coilovers wouldn't really help the understeer of the car as much as sway bars would, but when reading StartupRacing's page on Vogtland GT's http://www.startupracing.com/B6ProductsSuspension.htm, they say that due to the increased rear spring rates (575/650) in their CO kit, that understeer is reduced and the need for upgraded sway bars goes away.

What do you think, is this accurate? Or would sway bars still have a noticeable improvement with Vogtland GT's?

[Stevelev]

I'm installing my GT Vogts on my car Wednesday (had them on my B6 A4). I had A4 H-sports on my B6 and they provided a noticeable improvement to the OEM sport suspension (long before getting the GT Vogts). I then pulled the trigger on a set of Stasis SS coils but was disappointed as the improvement to handling was far more noticeable with the addition of H-sports compared to the addition of the Stasis coils and I had "ass sag" with the coils. There was a noticeable improvement when I swapped out the Stasis coils for the GT Vogts though. I guess what I'm really saying is, I can't give you a definitive answer - yet. If you have a little patience, I'd be happy to provide some feedback in a few days.

[sprintblues4]

Start with the sway bars first, they are cheaper and you will feel the most improvement with them. You can add coils later and they will be that much better. I put the H sport 29mm RS4 rear sway on my car and it has 2 settings, the firmer of the 2 will induce some over steer if you like.

[okrampf]

Perhaps a better question would be: Can I avoid purchasing the sway bars later if I get the Vogt GT CO's now because the CO's would provide the same handling improvement? Or is this not true and the sways would still have a noticeable improvement even after the installation of the CO's?

[sprintblues4]

You will still want the ways. I don't know your driving style so you may be happy with the vogt's, I love mine. Good luck, no matter which way you go you'll still improve your cars handling. Just do both!

[oatzel]

i'm running vogtland c/o's (non-startup version) and h-sport sways. love the set up.

[vovpar]

So would sway bars help me to get my rear out more so that i will be able to get sideways?

[JetBlue]

You are not going to get this car sideways unless you install a mechanical LSD. The sway bars will show much more improvement in handling than the CO's.

[Stevelev]

^ Great shot !

Getting your car sideways is easy .... in snow !

[Addicted2Bass]

Like someone above me said, you need an LSD. The center diff mod will help as well.

[RAudi Driver]

Coilovers first! The only reason to do the sway bars first is that it's a cheaper mod for the results.

Coilovers will shore up your ride more complete than a rear or a set of sway bars. You may even find that you don't need the sway bars after the coilover install. You still end up getting them because the mod bug has bit.

[lllee]

Maybe I'm a good case study for suspension mods.

I bought the car with no suspension modifications and a staggered setup, 19x8.5 in the front, 19x9.5 in the rear. Understeer was pronounced and steering felt very sluggish on twisties.

I switched to stock 18" wheels and that helped a bit. Slightly less sluggish/understeer but still feeling heavy.

First, I installed Vogtland COs and the handling became neutral and balanced.

Next I put on 19x8 forged wheels, no noticeable change in handling.

6 months later I installed the H-Sport RS4 rear bar only, standard setting. Slight improvement in reducing understeer.

3 months later I installed the H-Sport RS4 front bar. The ride flattened out in the corners (less body roll) and didn't feel like any increase in understeer. People sometimes say to not install a beefier front bar since it will increase understeer.

2 weeks later I move the rear sway bar into the more aggressive setting. It's not a huge difference over the previous setup but I can definitely get the tail to swing out if I take a corner hard.

It'll never be a drift machine and will always feel heavy but the car does feel powerful coming out of turns in 3rd gear :)

[Stevelev]

^ Great info

[Stevelev]

Maybe I'm a good case study for suspension mods. ...
I switched to stock 18" wheels and that helped a bit. Slightly less sluggish/understeer but still feeling heavy.

First, I installed Vogtland COs and the handling became neutral and balanced.

Next I put on 19x8 forged wheels, no noticeable change in handling ...

Can you provide some add'l info:

1) Weight of stock wheels with tires versus weight of forged wheels with tires?
2) Which Vogtlands - Regular or GT's from Startup Racing?

[lllee]

1) Not sure, you can probably find out the weight of the stock 18". Never bothered to put either set on a scale. Pretty sure the forged wheels are lighter, but then again 19" tires may be heavier.

2) Standard Vogtlands

[okrampf]

Interesting, thanks for the replies so far.

So there appears to be people saying that CO's will have a more noticeable impact on handling than sways, and some that say it's the other way around.

Would the fact that StartUp Vogt's have higher rear spring rates than fronts have any impact on the above statement? Don't larger sways give the impression of higher spring rates, to a degree, and thus StartUp's CO's would diminish the need for sways?

[RAudi Driver]

People purchase the sway bar first because it's cheaper. If you got the cash, get the coilovers first. Hell, if you got the cash get both at the same time.

Enjoy modding the car, it's one of the greatest hobbies in life.

[Meradin]

Coilovers will also let you adjust the height front and rear independently which can also effect over/understeer.

[oatzel]

Maybe I'm a good case study for suspension mods.

3 months later I installed the H-Sport RS4 front bar. The ride flattened out in the corners (less body roll) and didn't feel like any increase in understeer. People sometimes say to not install a beefier front bar since it will increase understeer.

2 weeks later I move the rear sway bar into the more aggressive setting. It's not a huge difference over the previous setup but I can definitely get the tail to swing out if I take a corner hard.

It'll never be a drift machine and will always feel heavy but the car does feel powerful coming out of turns in 3rd gear :)

i'm similar, i ran just the rear h-sport s4 bar for about six weeks before putting the front bar on. i much prefer the car with the front bar on. the increase in steering response is worth whatever slight increase in understeer there is (and like you, i don't notice much of an increase)

[Jrunr]

asfar as sway bars go, is there a difference between H-Sport and Neuspeed?

[channad]

Let me share with you my experience.

I went to WMS and spoke with Mike. I wanted to get a rear sway bar and try it out for the upcoming canyon runs. He told me he could do it and what not and advised that if I went with c/o's, I wouldn't need a sway bar. Effectively, you're tightening up your back end and front end with the c/o's. He says to his customers, "do it once and do it right." Of course he's speaking of STaSIS Motorsport kit with Ohlins. They have spring rates of up to 800/1200. So your front and back ends are tightened up, and you're out almost $4k!

I'll go with the sway bars first!

Hope that helps.

[Stevelev]

Of course he's speaking of STaSIS Motorsport kit with Ohlins. They have spring rates of up to 800/1200. So your front and back ends are tightened up, and you're out almost $4k!

I'll go with the sway bars first!

Hope that helps.

No question $4k is a lot to spend ! One thing to take into account with sway bars is the is the slight loss of right to left suspension independance ...

asfar as sway bars go, is there a difference between H-Sport and Neuspeed?

H-sport is hollow making it lighter. Also, H-sports are typically sold in a front and rear sets.

[RAudi Driver]

H-Sport > Neuspeed. H&R's have the best bushings.