Do we want a bipipe to be insulated, or dissipate heat?

[jibberjive]

So did we ever come to a general consensus on if we want the uppipes to conduct and dissipate heat because of their location with airflow going over them, or do we want them to be well insulated because the heat of the air after flowing through the radiator is higher than the air in the pipes after the intercooler? I don't think it was ever clearly resolved one way or another.

[generationjdm]

The stock pipe wasn't insulated from the factory.. I think by insulating/wrapping the bi-pipes will only add to the IAT because i feel the wrap will get heat soaked and actually hold the hot longer, thats why I had mine ceramic coated so it's like both, theres other ways to help the area without wrapping them ...Thats why I had my set custom made for me, I personally think the 1.5 inch stock I.D isn't helping things & the tiny diverter opening, also the one I had made has a diverter opening more then twice the opening as the stocker and still fits the factory and silicon Diverter boots. Thats just my opinion I hope this helps..

[casawhites4]

are these the ones that were getting manufactured by guruman, or what not...maybe it was you that was suppose to make them...but are these them??? lol

[AMC]

wow genjdm those look sick...how much

[generationjdm]

are these the ones that were getting manufactured by guruman, or what not...maybe it was you that was suppose to make them...but are these them??? lol

LOL, I live in Michigan the motor city capitol of the world why would I send anything to Guru to have done in Canada and deal with all the custom crap? These where mocked up by me and sent to my friends local factory to have bent from there they went to another local business to have ceramic coated... Yes, I was the one who was having them made..

[RogueStatus]

mass produce those bad larrys! i'd be down for some...good work.

[Overboostin]

Are you sure thats not going to hit the fan? The plastic bipipe has a flat spot for that reason I think.

[generationjdm]

You have to remember the stockers r thick walled plastic these r aluminum, so to get the same I.D on the aluminum you don't need a bulky O.D, basically my O.D is the same or smaller then the stocker but with a much larger I.D.. It sits on the inside of the clutch fan pulley by roughly 1/4+ inches and the pipes mount/fasten in the same location as the stockers.. I think I tossed my fan out a while ago I should of left it laying around for a good pic but since I bought an electric fan i pitched it..

[2001S4CT]

^^^ This is for the guys that remove their fans.

What fan are you removing? And why doesnt it cause overheating?

[jibberjive]

The stock pipe wasn't insulated from the factory.. I think by insulating/wrapping the bi-pipes will only add to the IAT thats why I had mine ceramic coated so it's like both the ceramic should help reflects heat and the aluminum should dissipate heat, theres other ways to help the area without wrapping them ...Thats why I had my set custom made for me, I personally think the 1.5 inch stock I.D isn't helping things & the tiny diverter opening, also the one I had made has a diverter opening more then twice the opening as the stocker. Thats just my opinion I hope this helps..

Well the stock one is plastic from the factory, right? So it has much better insulating properties than the aluminum. I really don't get you're thinking on the dissipation. To me it's either good to have it dissipate the heat and you should use as little insulation as possible (ie no ceramic), or it's bad to dissipate and you want to do anything you can to insulate. Does anyone know the answer to this, rather than just conjecture?

[generationjdm]

Your incorrect on the ceramic and the plastic... What I was saying is the ceramic coat on the outside will reflect and keep heat off the pipe the inside of the pipe is bare aluminum... Just curious if plastic is better then why isn't the rs4 pipe plastic? Do some searches on ceramic coated parts as they serve a several purposes.... If the charge in the inlet pipe is roughly 120 wouldn't you wish to keep the charge the same instead of getting hotter?

[generationjdm]

^^^ This is for the guys that remove their fans.

What fan are you removing? And why doesnt it cause overheating?

I'm not removing any fan, my clutch fan was broke so I tossed the plastic fan in the trash... I will be using an electric fan that I can control and will be getting rid of the clutch fan...

[jibberjive]

Your incorrect on the ceramic and the plastic... What I was saying is the ceramic coat on the outside will reflect and keep heat off the pipe the inside of the pipe is bare aluminum... Just curious if plastic is better then why isn't the rs4 pipe plastic? Do some searches on ceramic coated parts as they serve a several purposes.... If the charge in the inlet pipe is roughly 120 wouldn't you wish to keep the charge the same instead of getting hotter?

I was just talking about your first post when you said that you thought that wrapping/insulating the pipe would be bad for IAT's, but then said that's why you ceramic coated it (which in essence "reflects" the heat, or insulates the inner air from being affected by the outside air). Just seem like contradicting thoughts to me.

[generationjdm]

Wouldn't it do both reflect the outside heat from the pipe which would basically in return keep the inside cooler? I don't like wrapping for a few reasons 1, hold moisture which will and can corrode parts 2, actually holds heat doesn't reflect heat....I'm going to try something for shits and giggles, I will take 1 stock bi-pipe and 1 aluminum and run a blow dryer in the pipes for 5 minutes each with 1 end caped off and then I will measure the outside pipe temp and the inside pipe temp with a heat radar gun and see how long it takes for temps to be brought down..

[jibberjive]

Wouldn't it do both reflect the outside heat from the pipe which would basically in return keep the inside cooler?

That's the whole point of what I'm asking, is the outside temp indeed hotter than the air running through the pipe, cause if the air going over the pipe isn't hotter, then we don't want to reflect/insulate anything. In this case we would want the pipe to act, in essence, as just more surface area of the intercooler. As far as your experiment goes, I think it's obvious that plastic takes longer to heat up and cool off, therefore is a better insulator. The fact that the stock bipipe is plastic makes me think that you did good by coating your pieces.

[AudiSportB5S4]

^^^ This is for the guys that remove their fans.

What fan are you removing? And why doesnt it cause overheating?

if you were to pop your hood open, and look down on the engine side of the radiator, its the fan on the right that is attached to the engine (clutch fan). Greg (SSP) pulled mine and recently i just (i use I loosley, GREG) installed the VAST EFK which is a 15inch SPAL fan. when you remove that fan you are removing a pulley allowing less engine strain and wasted power.

[generationjdm]

heres a pic with the same size or larger pipes then mine with the stock fan.. From my measurements I should have more room then the stockers, because the stockers sit of the front covers a lot mine sit flat against the covers....

[ladedruck]

I was just talking about your first post when you said that you thought that wrapping/insulating the pipe would be bad for IAT's, but then said that's why you ceramic coated it (which in essence "reflects" the heat, or insulates the inner air from being affected by the outside air). Just seem like contradicting thoughts to me.

I get the same thing from his first post. I wrapped my stock pipes for a while super ghetto style with frost king insulating wrap. It helped imo.
I am not certain about the science behind enlarging a pipe that you are trying to keep the pressure up in. It has always seems to me that if you make a big pipe right after the ic you will only increase pressure drop due to larger volume. Have you measured volume and done some calculations or are they just bigger.

[generationjdm]

So u think going from 2.25 inches just right out of the IC to 1.5 inches is a good thing for a high hp car? The throttle body is after the ic so why ever enlarge that? The intake manifold is after the ic why ever port that or upgrade? Wonder why the stock rs4 bi-pipe is larger, wonder why the t.b is larger also the intake manifold is larger to all after the ic? I was saying wrapping the pipes will add to the ait because once the wrap got hot it would stay hot and hold the heat in the pipe...

[ladedruck]

I am not saying it might not be good. Making those pipes flow better would be good imo. I am asking if you did any math or flow testing etc to figure out if yours are going to help.
The throttle body is a restriction but ad very little volume when enlarged. it also is not a big restriction and can probably flow plenty for the stock cylinder heads.
If you blow air out of the main restriction of the system (the IC) into a big pipe the psi will drop. That is science. It might not matter but it is a fact. Bigger is by no means always better. If the two tubes aren't able to flow enough air then it could help. If they aren't the restriction in the system then they could hurt. it is true the factory ones look like they flow like crap. i am sure they can be improved. I am just wondering what the design needs to be to be better. We can all make a bigger pipe for a lot of things. it doesn't always equal more power.

[generationjdm]

The pipe is more consistent unlike the stock one where its large at one end then gets small then gets large then gets small then large again, also the shape of the stock pipe was for packaging reasons only, the pipe is round right out the ic then rectangular then a capital D shape then round again.. The pipe im using is 2 inch roughly 1.92 i.d the stock one at it's largest point was 1.89 when I cut the pipe in half.. Over all i do have more volume because of the same length of the pipe from 1 end to another but I wouldn't say it's a ton more where guessing 20-25% more. I believe there will be a pretty good improvement over the stocker especially in a higher hp car.. People have been upgrading the stocker for a while in europe especially after they started cracking them in higher hp cars.... I will fill them up with water and see what the volume is.... The pic i posted above is the awe silver bullet car

[ladedruck]

well I will flow a stock one on the flow bench this week to get an idea of what it flows. Then we can know how bad it sucks or blows. You don't get real hard data flowing something like this imo but it will be interesting. If you want to send me one of yours I will be glad to flow them back to back.

[generationjdm]

I already know what one will flow better without a question.. Theres more to a bi-pipe then just flow...

[ladedruck]

I already know what one will flow better without a question.. Theres more to a bi-pipe then just flow...

ok. I was just offering. I know there is more to it then flow. That is why you and I are having this "debate". If we flowed the two and compared it to what the engine can possibly pump at 7500rpm then we would know if it was worth the upgrade. Or we might find it would be better to have a slightly smaller pipe to help keep pressure up but still flow more then enough for the engines potential. It may be that the stock size is good but the shape is the factor. This gos to my original post though. Are your pipes better or just bigger?

[generationjdm]

ok. I was just offering. I know there is more to it then flow. That is why you and I are having this "debate". If we flowed the two and compared it to what the engine can possibly pump at 7500rpm then we would know if it was worth the upgrade. Or we might find it would be better to have a slightly smaller pipe to help keep pressure up but still flow more then enough for the engines potential. It may be that the stock size is good but the shape is the factor. This gos to my original post though. Are your pipes better or just bigger?

R the rs4 pipes bigger then the stockers, why did audi decide to ramp up the rs4 piping from the turbo nozzle to the t.b and go larger on the t.b and manifold, just for the small k04ss? These r for my personal GT car, I'm not saying anyone needs anything, there larger but not huge there 2 inch same size that was on the awe silver bullet car... I had the pipes made different in a few ways then the stockers to improve upon a few different things... P.S, I didn't know we where debating on what pipes r nicer sorry..

[AudiSportB5S4]

off topic, but generation is that your car in the pic you posted last, that is SICK! =]

[AMC]

off topic, but generation is that your car in the pic you posted last, that is SICK! =]

if you read its awe's car not his... lol freakin greenich kids haha
when we chillen bro, im buyin my turbos this week

[2001S4NY]

ill have my pipes tuesday ill see how good they work :)

[ladedruck]

R the rs4 pipes bigger then the stockers, why did audi decide to ramp up the rs4 piping from the turbo nozzle to the t.b and go larger on the t.b and manifold, just for the small k04ss? These r for my personal GT car, I'm not saying anyone needs anything they r larger but not huge there 2 inch sames size that was on the awe silver bullet car... I had the pipes made different in a few ways then the stockers to improve upon a few different things... P.S, I didn't know we where debating on what pipes nicer sorry..

I would assume Audi did it to match with the RS4 heads, cams and turbos. The engine has different flow needs and abilities. Anyway not hating on your pipes. It certainly makes more sense on a gt car then k0x also. Just asking a few questions about the theory you were going on. I think you answered my questions. It sounds like you are saying others have done it so you are going to also.

[AudiSportB5S4]

if you read its awe's car not his... lol freakin greenich kids haha
when we chillen bro, im buyin my turbos this week

LOL. idk, soon man im doing a front mount soon [O_O], then oneeeee more month till fueling finally

[generationjdm]

I would assume Audi did it to match with the RS4 heads, cams and turbos. The engine has different flow needs and abilities. Anyway not hating on your pipes. It certainly makes more sense on a gt car then k0x also. Just asking a few questions about the theory you were going on. I think you answered my questions. It sounds like you are saying others have done it so you are going to also.

The stock Bi-pipe was made for a 185whp car not 500+...You say your not hating but you sound as if you are... If you follow my build you will see I'm doing everything about 90% different then most, so to say I'm just following the crowd is crazy... It's common sense that the plastic stock Bi-pipes r not going to cut it on a higher hp car if you cut one in half as I did you will understand... Cars not running GTS in Europe have split these pipes a few times and I don't wish to learn the hard way. Do I think there will be improvement over the stocker, without a doubt. Look at the tiny opening for the diverter valve for 1 mine is twice the I.D which will allow better response and will eliminate inconsistent boost.. Also the pipes half the weight as stock and is ceramic coated to cut down radiant heat and they look 10000% better then stock... I'm finished here I don't wish to keep go around in circles over this...

[HyePwr]

JDM---I wouldnt take things personally. I think all Evan is trying to say is that Bigger does not equal better. I remember reading an article about F1 cars and theyre exhausts. One would think --logically---if a small ID exhaust is a restriction--then a huge exhaust has less restriction....which equals more power. Then no exhaust equals max power. When in fact ---there is an 'optium' exhaust length\ID. according to the article.

Either way....its pointless....because 1)It wont hurt performance 2)it looks better 3)will probably be far more durable. More power isnt th reason to do everything.

[generationjdm]

F1 exhaust r made to step and uses venturis complete different then the charge pipe... I understand what he's trying to do or say but my point was completely valid when I said why did audi make such a dramatic change with the RS4 by changing everything and going larger... What I did was take the largest section in the stock pipe and make my pipe the same through out removing all the bends different shapes and sizes of the stocker.. Pretty basic design and I would say the RS4 pipe might even be the same or larger then mine by the way and was designed for a car that will make far less hp then a GT car....

[Justin:NorCal]

Might I just mention, you just made a pipe that will absorb radiant heat from the engine better than the plastic before. Get pictures of the Champion S4 see what they did. RS4 pipes coated in gold heat resistant insulation. About $40 a square foot but works great.

[generationjdm]

Ceramic coat lowers radiant heat on the pipe from the engine bay and actually reflects it off the pipe. If you where to coat the inside and outside of the pipe I can say your right, by doing the outside will keep heat off the pipe and allow the aluminum from the inside to dissipate faster, where never going to cool this pipe after the coolers any further with out meth or so on but when can keep heat of the pipe by shielding it from the engine bay temps... Jet hot coating & Swain coating r a few source who I've spoke to about this and several others they all agreed... I've used the bronze stuff on pistons and cranks before... It's pretty simple put a torch to a ceramic coated aluminum pipe and take the heat off in less then a minute you can touch it, do this with a pipe not coated and touch it and see what happens... Whats on the outside of the stock RS4 pipe?

[generationjdm]

Just for fun I took the stock pipe and the aluminum coated pipe and did a quick test from home just now.... I blocked off the openings on both pipes and used a heat gun that was blowing out 172 degrees of heat after fully heated... Both pipes where exactly at room temp 71 degrees. I took the aluminum ceramic coated pipe and heated the pipe up with the end of the blower 1 inch from the pipe for exactly 2 minutes recording with a digital stop watch. I was shocked to see after 2 minutes of 172 degree temps the outside of the pipe was only 91 degrees. I did the same test to the stock pipe exactly and the pipe on the outside was 168 degrees and the inside was exactly the same temp 168 degree... O the ceramic coated pipe drop back to room temp is less then 90 seconds while the plastic pipe took over 8 minutes... I used a laser gun that registers heat to do the quick test... On a side note if you ever look in the stock pipe ends theres medal rings in them and this gets hot real real fast and having air going over such a hot surface doesn't help.... I didn't measure the ring for heat but I touched it and almost burnt my finger when caring the pipe...