Please Help!! 03 A4 Blew It's Camshaft!!!

[LadyHawk]

Got my 03 A4 1.8t back from the body shop today (minor scratches and dings fixed) and on the way home it started flashing a huge red oil signal and started seriously vibrating. I pulled over checked the oil... empty. Walked 3 miles to the nearest gas station and back and added 3 quarts. The vibrating calmed down but a few minutes later the BIG oil light came back on. Immediately after that the check engine light came on. We checked the codes and it read "cam shaft position actuator a- Bank 1 timing over retard". Car's now sitting in my parking lot after being towed. Someone please tell me what I am looking at here. Should I be looking to get rid of the car or will it be worth it to fix and keep. I'd appreciate any input you can give me. Way I see it... there's no way the body shop caused this. It was in because a plow hit me a few weeks ago, it barely grazed me but broke the housing for my valeo's so I had to put the insurance claim in. There was only a small dent in the passenger fender and some paint missing around the light housing. I can;t imagine that small accident would have caused this. The car has 88k miles on it. Bought it used with 58k, clean car fax.

KH

[DenverNoob]

you are leaking oil and badly.....possibly a blown motor, cracked oil pan, or major gasket leak somewhere. DO NOT drive the car further and have it looked at by a qualified tech....there is a very good chnce you have damaged much of the internal componentry as a result of low/no oil.

[LadyHawk]

Damn, WTF??? How would my oil get THAT low? So basically, too much to think about repairing?

[kyle09]

check around and get it fixed for as little as possible then sell while it still works..if you are wanting to sell it.

[DenverNoob]

Damn, WTF??? How would my oil get THAT low? So basically, too much to think about repairing?

well, if its a leaky gasket and there was a LITTLE left in there maybe you are ok....im thinking you prob thumped ur oilpan...look under the car and get the belly pan off of the car and you will prob see oil everywhere (if thats the prob)....otherwise it could be anything...but oil light = BAD. hard to say but i will say this much....DONT DRIVE IT.

[LadyHawk]

ok so if the car wasn't asking for oil when I gave it to the body shop 3 weeks ago and it came back to me completely empty, could this be the body shop's fault? Could something have happened to the car in the accident that would cause this even though the cosmetic damage was minor? Could something have happened when the body shop did the repairs or is this something that is a long time coming? FYI I drove the car for at least 2 full weeks after the accident before we put it in the shop...

[audipotential]

How the bloody hell could you possibly have a leak that would drain that much oil .....
This is fishy

[LadyHawk]

Additionally, I don't want to sell this car. Any idea what cost range I am looking at in a worse case scenario and if I fix it is it worth keeping? Might just keep it parked until I can afford the fix if I wouldn't have any other problems due to this down the road. Lastly, no belly pan on the car, no oil leaking anywhere I can see. Body shop claims no leaks there, none on the flatbead that brought it back to me, no leak spots in the spot I was parked in for 2.5 hours today. Does that mean really bad news?

[LadyHawk]

How the bloody hell could you possibly have a leak that would drain that much oil .....
This is fishy

That's what I'm trying to figure out... the car was F I N E when I handed it over.

[audipotential]

Additionally, I don't want to sell this car. Any idea what cost range I am looking at in a worse case scenario and if I fix it is it worth keeping? Might just keep it parked until I can afford the fix if I wouldn't have any other problems due to this down the road. Lastly, no belly pan on the car, no oil leaking anywhere I can see. Body shop claims no leaks there, none on the flatbead that brought it back to me, no leak spots in the spot I was parked in for 2.5 hours today. Does that mean really bad news?

Um....Are you sure that the car is lacking oil or are you guessing. Are you sure it didnt just sludge up on you?

THis is peculiar

[absolutegtr]

That's what I'm trying to figure out... the car was F I N E when I handed it over.

Why would the repair shop mess around with your car? They would know that you would just come back to them and that they would be held liable.

I think it is just a big coincidence that the motor 'failed' right after taking it to a shop.

Anyways, it sounds like a slugde issue to me!

[LadyHawk]

Checked the oil level and it was definitly low. It does look dark but no necessarily sludgy. The only thing we did notice was the oil cap was crusty. What would sludge indicate?

[LadyHawk]

Ok so this is a retarded question but I'm female and I'm also new to this car game. How the hell would my oil sludge up on me? WTF causes that?

[audipotential]

Checked the oil level and it was definitly low. It does look dark but no necessarily sludgy. The only thing we did notice was the oil cap was crusty. What would sludge indicate?

I really hope this is sludge.


Please instead of posting little answers be EXTREMELY specific. Was it like EMPTY or was it just low?


My brother had similar symptoms and it was sludge. Engine was shaky, started vibrating and sounded like a diesel. It was sludged.

[audipotential]

Ok so this is a retarded question but I'm female and I'm also new to this car game. How the hell would my oil sludge up on me? WTF causes that?

The 1.8T Engine has an extended warranty for sludge. Its a defect from audi so that why I say I HOPE its sludge

[LadyHawk]

One more... say I bought one of those extended warranties when I bought the car... you know the ones I'm talking about. Not from the dealer but they come from an outside source and are good all over the country blah blah blah. If the issue is sludge, would it be covered.

[audipotential]

One more... say I bought one of those extended warranties when I bought the car... you know the ones I'm talking about. Not from the dealer but they come from an outside source and are good all over the country blah blah blah. If the issue is sludge, would it be covered.

Hun,
First things first, if its sludge its covered in most cases. Also, in most cases those outside warranties are bullshit. the Audi warranty is the only true warranty.


Have you been doing routine changes every 5K with Full synthetic?

[LadyHawk]

Praise the lord, the things you just described are exactly what happened! Shaky vibration especially with accelerating and it DID sound like a deisel now that you mention it. As far as oil level it was def between very low and empty. Maybe like 1/4 inch on the dip stick before we added oil. We added 3 quarts turned the car back on and within seconds the oil light was flashing again, the vibration did get better for a second but went right back to bad quickly when the check engine light came on. That's when we said F it and called for a tow truck. Ok so if the problem is sludge... I didn't buy this car from an Audi dealer, might I still be covered?

[LadyHawk]

FYI, I didn't actually buy one of those warranties :). I was gonna try to add it now if I thought it might cover it. We use absolute full synthetic for the oil changes. We don't take it to the dealer though, we have been going to Valvoline out of convenience (there's one right down the street and the 2 closest Audi dealers are very inconvenient). Maybe there is still hope for my baby. We put a deposit on an 2004 S4 yesterday and would know if the deal goes through tomorrow. This would throw a HUGE monkey wrench in that :(.

[audipotential]

FYI, I didn't actually buy one of those warranties :). I was gonna try to add it now if I thought it might cover it. We use absolute full synthetic for the oil changes. We don't take it to the dealer though, we have been going to Valvoline out of convenience (there's one right down the street and the 2 closest Audi dealers are very inconvenient). Maybe there is still hope for my baby. We put a deposit on an 2004 S4 yesterday and would know if the deal goes through tomorrow. This would throw a HUGE monkey wrench in that :(.

Your plan of action is
1) Flat bed it to an Audi dealer
2) Get them to run the 100 dollar inspection or whatever the price is in your area
3)Find every receipt for your oil changes. If you dont have those reciepts your sludge warranty is not valid and you become officially in trouble.
4) Wait and see what their verdict is. It should take no longer than 20 minutes to see if its sludge or not realistically

[audipotential]

Unless you know how to open the valve cover yourself. That way you can rest your mind a bit for tonight lol

[LadyHawk]

Thanks for all of your help everyone! Oil change receipts are no problem at all. Towing cost to an Audii dealer is another problem in itself. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope it is sludge. Just one last question... is my car going to be covered for sludge at it's mileage (88k), even though I didn't buy it from an Audi dealer, and even though regular oil changes were done at my personal mechanic and Valvoline? What if I have no oil change receipts for the car prior to my owner ship but for the last 30,000 miles? We'll let everyone know the outcome.

[audipotential]

If you bought it at 58K..That would mean that everything the previous owner did should be on record from Audi. As long as YOU have ALL your reciepts and I do mean ALL.....you should be fine. Tow it there asap and get this shit done with. The faster they assess the problem, the faster you get it back. If its sludge, itll take about 5 days to fix.

I hope its not something else. But look on the bright side...if it is sludge, brand new engine for you.

[LadyHawk]

Good, everyone cross there fingers for sludge, if there was ever a time to pray for it, that time is now.

[audipotential]

Good, everyone cross there fingers for sludge, if there was ever a time to pray for it, that time is now.

Haha dont worry...If its something else...look on the bridge side..

You can use it as a project car and be the only girl on these forums with a 350 HP 1.8T :D

[LadyHawk]

:) that was my plan anyway. Anyone know of somone who had issues getting the dealership to cover this? What if the previous owner didn't follow the maintenance schedule (I know the dealer I bought it from picked it up at auction after a corporate lease)? I just saw some HORROR stories after a google search. I probably should have just went to bed. I'd hate to pay the huge towing fee to find out it won't be covered then have to pay the HUGE towing fee to get it back home. Long drive off short pier... link to horror stories if anyone is interested...

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...di_sludge.html

Please tell me these people just had bad luck because if not. I can't prove maintanence was done on this car before I purchased it.

[AudiA4_20T]

Hey LadyHawk I'd help you out if you I could but your all the way up in Boston...

Here's the deal, your oil leak was probably not caused by the body shop, or it happened right before the body shop got your car. Basically you have a leak which wasnt a big deal while it was sitting at the body shop but probably got big when you drove it again. Big deal. I dont think your cam is busted it sounds like your timing belt just skipped a tooth. Basically your not screwed you just need to fix it before it gets bad.

[LadyHawk]

I have my personal mechanic coming to the lot to take a look at it today. Based on what he finds will determine whether I take it to the dealer. I am so bummed. Another day in the VW Jetta...

[dougyfresh]

So, when the oil light kept coming on you checked the level and the level was low? Even after you put those 3 quarts back in? 3 quarts is A LOT for this engine.

Definitely take it to get looked at and go from there. Find ALL of your receipts. Was the timing belt ever changed?

[Splattj]

Maybe like 1/4 inch on the dip stick before we added oil. We added 3 quarts

Your car only holds around 4-1/2 quarts when you drain the oil. If there's still oil on the dipstick, you added way too much oil.

That being said, your symptoms probably started with 3 quarts in the oil pan, so you weren't out of oil. If I were a betting man, I would have to say you were struck by the sludge monster.

One last thing, did you get synthetic oil changes at Valvoline? (You'd know as they cost twice as much.)

[LadyHawk]

Update: talked to the dealer, they said no way Audi's gonna pay for it if I can't prove maintenance by the previous owner. Oh well, at this point I guess we are taking this as a loss. $8-12k to fix it is not worth it to me. I might as well just pay it off and buy a newer one. :( this sux. I'm still gonna have a mechanic come to my house and look at it just to get his opinion. If he says def sludge the car will sit until it's paid off and then I guess we junk it? Yesterday I had hope, it's pretty much run out.

We do buy the synthetic oil, usually like $70 or so for a change. Not sure about the timing belt.

Not good luck on the 1st Audi but it'll be replaced and I guess you learn from this experience and move on. Note to self: Buy a car that has proof of maintenance next time. Thanks for your help everyone!

[audipotential]

Wait a second here....
It should have scheduled maintenances done at the the dealership... Did the run the vin? You might have to be a bit more aggressive in this.
Call Audi of north america and plead your case.

Update: talked to the dealer, they said no way Audi's gonna pay for it if I can't prove maintenance by the previous owner. Oh well, at this point I guess we are taking this as a loss. $8-12k to fix it is not worth it to me. I might as well just pay it off and buy a newer one. :( this sux. I'm still gonna have a mechanic come to my house and look at it just to get his opinion. If he says def sludge the car will sit until it's paid off and then I guess we junk it? Yesterday I had hope, it's pretty much run out.

We do buy the synthetic oil, usually like $70 or so for a change. Not sure about the timing belt.

Not good luck on the 1st Audi but it'll be replaced and I guess you learn from this experience and move on. Note to self: Buy a car that has proof of maintenance next time. Thanks for your help everyone!

[Papachristou]

[QUOTE=LadyHawk;2390251]FYI, I didn't actually buy one of those warranties :). I was gonna try to add it now if I thought it might cover it. QUOTE]

that is insurance fraud FIY... you think a company isnt going to say anything if you add a policy then a week later claim sludge? they will probably find what you have said online as well...

but your own insurance company might cover it under comprehensive.. check with them and see, i had a friend drive through water and it was covered


the reason adding oil didnt help is because the internal pickup tube is probably blocked off with sludge, it cant circulate the oil no matter what.

[My OOOO My]

Here are some questions that you should ask, to assess your situation.

Since you live in Boston, MA...

How cold has it been day & night for the past few weeks?
How long was the car at the repair shop without being started?
Colder temps will cause oil to thicken in the oil pan.

What type of Valvoline oil do they use?
What type of oil filter do they use?
According to the Audi/VW approved oil chart VW 502 00, you should only be using the following types of Valvoline Synthetic Oil:
- Valvoline SynPower MXL SAE 5W-30
- Valvoline DuraBlend MXL SAE 5W-40
- Valvoline Synpower MST SAE 5W-30

Incorrect oil type and incorrect filter STAY AWAY FROM.

[chaser]

Just wondering.....the car isn't leaking oil.......and you had to add a lot of oil....hmmmmm

[Dos::Avants]

[QUOTE=Papachristou;2391182]

FYI, I didn't actually buy one of those warranties :). I was gonna try to add it now if I thought it might cover it. QUOTE]

that is insurance fraud FIY... you think a company isnt going to say anything if you add a policy then a week later claim sludge? they will probably find what you have said online as well...

but your own insurance company might cover it under comprehensive.. check with them and see, i had a friend drive through water and it was covered


the reason adding oil didnt help is because the internal pickup tube is probably blocked off with sludge, it cant circulate the oil no matter what.

Even if the pickup tube was blocked off, once she turned off the car to check the oil, wouldn't the dipstick still read the correct level? Either the OP didn't wait for the oil to drain in the pan or she IS actually burning a lot of oil through the exhaust???

[skeeball]

Call AoA (Audi of America) and explain your situation. Hit up the NE forum and find out which is the friendliest dealer in MA, then speak to them about the sludge warranty.

And not be an f'ing jackle or anything... But if nothing works out and you are going to junk the car, what color is your interior and is your glovebox unbroken?

[dougyfresh]

Even if the pickup tube was blocked off, once she turned off the car to check the oil, wouldn't the dipstick still read the correct level? Either the OP didn't wait for the oil to drain in the pan or she IS actually burning a lot of oil through the exhaust???

That is what I was thinking.



To the OP. You can run the VIN and get the entire factory maintenance history. Follow the suggestions in post #34 and you'll get a few steps closer.

I'm willing to bet its been down below freezing at night the past couple weeks up in Boston. It has been here in Hartford.

The answer of junking the car or paying out of pocket for a new engine right now is not acceptable. All acceptable avenues have not been pursued yet.

[LadyHawk]

I love this forum and I really appreciate all the help/advice. It has been COLD here overnight since the shop had my car (20s prob every night). A car that normally goes 25-50 miles per day had been sitting for 3 weeks exactly. I originally let the body shop have it because I thought they might have let the car run constantly and burned the oil all the way out. I just talked to him again, they def didn't start the car everyday. I think for the 1st two weeks it was sitting waiting for the parts to come in anyway. To answer one question... if I can't get this payed for, I will be selling EVERYTHING off of it. The car is in PERFECT condition, nothing is broken and it has a fresh coat of paint. So it looks like I am likely in for a fierce fight. Maybe I should stop being defeated and get it together huh? I'll let everyone know how it works out. Thanks so much again! I keep telling people how I can't believe how Audi owners just band together and offer someone they don't even know so much help! Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

[Mike02A4]

To the OP. You can run the VIN and get the entire factory maintenance history.

How do you do this? I had the dealership by me that the previous owner used print out the service records and it was only what he (the previous owner) had done, not the entire history. I would like to find out the entire history. Thanks!

Threads like this one scare me. Even though i only have 1,000 miles on my oil change (mobil 1 0w40/mobil 1 filter) I think im going to run a cleaner through it and do a flush pretty soon.