So you want to build your engine... A Complete Newb Writeup

[AudiA4_20T]

With the Audi community slowly catching up to the VW community in terms of building engines and BT, I thought a good writeup would really help.

So you want to build your engine eh? That world of bigger turbos then the GTRS will be opened and the real fun times will begin. But where do you start? This will be a guide to what you will need from start to finish to have everything done right.

We will start out with the simple qestion, "I want to do rods, where do I start?"

Well, before ordering anything you need to know what type of rods you want. If you want to do just drop in rods with your stock pistons, with the 19mm wristpin (which is less safe than a 20mm wristpin, but can still take a beating), you have...

- Integrated Engineering Rods ($350)
- Pauter Rods ($800)

Now, if your ready to change your pistons out for bigger 20mm wristpin, you have a few more options.

- Carillo ($850-$1500)
- Scat ($350)
- Pauter ($750)
- IE ($330)
- Eurospec ($700)

Now, for those of you that decided to get pistons for this job way to go, you have a few options here as well.

- JE Pistons ($600)
- Mahle ($600)
- Wiseco ($600)
- OEM AEB Pistons (these come out of the 97-2000 A4s and have 20mm wristpins) ($100-$200)

Now, your rods (and pistons possibly) came in the mail and your all happy, however, youll need some more things to complete the transaction.

- rod bearings
- rear seal
- head bolts (or studs depending if you want to step up)
- head gasket
- timing belt kit
- pan sealant
- assembly lube
- pistons with rings or OEM rings if using stock pistons

Cool, your all set. Now, you want to make sure you have the tools for the whole job. Tools you will need are

- Torx Set
- Hex Set
- Metric Socket set
- Torque Wrench
- Ring Compressor
- Ring filers

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So F that 1.8T stuff man, your moving on to bigger and better things. You're tired of this 1.8 stuff and your doing something about it. This is when the B5/B6 split becomes more apparent.

We will start off with the difference between the B5 and B6 1.8T engines.

In 1997, Audi introduced the AEB 1.8T, arguably the best 1.8T ever made. It had a free flowing head and strong bottom end (20mm wristpin) with forged internals. In the year 2000 this free flowing head was replaced with a small port head but kept the strong bottom end until it was replaced in 2001 by the weaker bottom end. In 2002, Audi came out with the AMB, basically a different block design altogether but with the same weaker bottom end and small port head.

Earlier Block Model - 058
Later Block Number - 06A

I will be using 058 and 06A a lot so stay focused here.

Now onto actual displacements. Engine builders round up quite often, which you will see here. Things to note here is that the stock bore is 81mm and the stock stroke is 86.4mm

86.4mm stroke = Stock 1.8T Cranks
92.8mm stroke = AEG/ABA Cranks
95.5mm stroke = TDI Crank

81mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1781cc
83mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1870cc
83.5mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1892.7cc
81mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 1913cc
83mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 2008cc
83.5mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 2033cc
83mm bore x 95.5mm stroke = 2066cc

It is possible to do more but if your going that big you need more info then this thread...

Now, for your custom pistons for this job, you have a few options here as well, just make sure you order them in time they usually take a month to make! Also, you can get many different Compression Ratios, I went with a 9:1 but talk to them about what you want, everyone's needs are different.

- JE Pistons
- Supertech
- Wiseco

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If you have an 058 block, I'm going to assume your doing the bold route (2008cc) because it is easiest. Now, your basically pulling your whole engine apart to do this so it is much more detailed. Basically you just need one more part, the crank, so now you have

- Pistons
- Rods
- Crank (058 guys use the ABA crank for 2.0 builds)

"You will need to shave the walls on the inside of the block to make the 92.8mm crank with Scat rods work. Cyl #1 has to be shaved the most, then shave the inner reinforcement of #3 and the lower reinforcement of #3. No need to shave the wall on 4th cyl wall but the piston will hit the oil squirter. Answer: Run a copper shim to move the squirter up so it'll clear the piston squirt." - Paul@BF

A machined intermediate shaft is needed for everything to fit also. Check Paul's thread for more info (listed at the bottom)

If you have an 06A block, I'm going to assume your doing the bold route (2008cc) because it is easiest (and even easier then 058 guys). Now, your basically pulling your whole engine apart to do this so it is much more detailed. Basically you just need one more part, the crank, so now you have

- Pistons
- Rods
- Crank (06A guys use the AEG crank a crank out of the new 2.0T FSI motors)

Now, because your motor is comming completely apart, you will most likely have more things to replace, keep in mind some of these may not be needed for you and some may be. Its all up to you. I would get some more opinions with your milage and such.

- crank bolt
- main bolts
- main bearings
- rod bearings
- rear seal
- head bolts (or studs depending on what you want to do)
- head gasket
- timing belt kit
- pan sealant
- assembly lube
- oil pump

Now, for the main bearings, there is a big controversy of which color is best. There are colors on the top bearings (the ones that sit on the top of the crank) that determine their crush factor apparently. Anyway, on the bottom of your block it should have letters, 5 of them, in a row. They should tell you what color your bearings are. Keep in mind that the letters are in German. Mine were Red (Rosen in German) so my block looked like this - RRRRR.

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Ok so you've gotten all your parts (although you know youll be at the dealer for those last minute things you break!), good. Now your off to find a machine shop.

WARNING

by this point I would assume that your ready to tear apart your motor. I would get a spare 06A block for myself (they float around Vortex a lot) and build that. My car was down for way too long and it sucked I could have saved myself a lot of trouble by having a spare block!

Ok so for the machine shop, you need to make sure they have done 1.8Ts that work before. Seriously make sure you have talked to someone with a running engine from their shop. Bring at the least your pistons to them, your going to want a

- 83mm Bore/Hone
- Hottank

and you can get whatever other options you want but its all up to you. I got the block decked also and the assembly balanced, but it doesnt matter because I think I mixed up 2 bearings, o well shit happens.

I paid $400 in all (crazy good deal) but the pricing gets way up there depending on the shop/amount of work

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Well, I cant really help you out on this part, it would be the assembly. Make sure if you dont know what your doing that you have someone help you who does or you leave it to professionals. Basically the hardest parts are torquing everything down, ring gapping (I snapped one of my rings in the process ), and getting timing right once the head is on.

Hope you all enjoyed this thread, let me know if you want to add anything else.

Refrences

http://audizine.com/forum/showthread...=105602&page=3

http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore.html

Random Vortex 1.8T forum threads

- Clint

[biketsai]

very interesting, this should be a sticky!

[oneohone]

^^^Agreed!

[pipe7284]

x2 very informative.

[Don Supreme]

Where do you get time to write this stuff Clint?

Goob job.

[SilverB5A4]

AEG crank is out of a 2.0 VW not the FSI motor FYI

[AudiA4_20T]

Where do you get time to write this stuff Clint?

Goob job.

honestly, the amount of times I had to rewrite this stuff for people made it worthwhile for me to just make 1 bank of info

[TQMB5]

also need a feeler gauge, plastigage
good info though

[Euro-Tuner]

this is great stuff. x3 on the sticky!!!

[Kyle H]

this is great stuff. x3 on the sticky!!!

x4!


I like to think I'm pretty knowledgeable, and I learned a lot. Thanks for the writeup.

[mike-2ptzero]

Where do you get time to write this stuff Clint?

Goob job.

Yeah because none of it has been posted all over the forums and are basicly all over Vortex. Half of the info is stuff that Issam has posted and Issam offers engine building kits and "stroker" kits on Vortex.

The power of "copy and paste".


I am suprised he didn't post up Issam's link where most of that info is located. here it is

[audiFUEGO]

i like the format of this one better.... easier to follow and it takes you from step one.

plus this one isnt trying to sell parts.... its dedicated to informing.

Good job

[ILoveT]

Yeah because none of it has been posted all over the forums and are basicly all over Vortex. Half of the info is stuff that Issam has posted and Issam offers engine building kits and "stroker" kits on Vortex.

The power of "copy and paste".


I am suprised he didn't post up Issam's link where most of that info is located. here it is

Who cares? He is the only one that took the time to put it all together. Seriously nitpickin' like a g-ma.

[mike-2ptzero]

Who cares? He is the only one that took the time to put it all together. Seriously nitpickin' like a g-ma.

I am just saying that the info has been out there for the last 6 years. It isn't something new, but I guess only those that know how to "search" would actually know it.

Also just saying that credit should go to those that have already put that info out there.

[ILoveT]

I'm glad all of this information is in one spot now because searching for everything just gets time consuming. Great job AudiA4

[AudiA4_20T]

Yeah because none of it has been posted all over the forums and are basicly all over Vortex. Half of the info is stuff that Issam has posted and Issam offers engine building kits and "stroker" kits on Vortex.

The power of "copy and paste".


I am suprised he didn't post up Issam's link where most of that info is located. here it is

Honestly Mike, your rediculous, Im glad youre excited that you and Issam and others know this info, Im not bragging by making this thread or trying to sell 1 single thing. All I know is I actually built my motor myself, from step 1 to the end, and am posting what Ive learned, all in 1 spot not scattered all over Vortex or AZ as most of the info is. No one is going to agree with you here, in no way can this hurt the community

I am just saying that the info has been out there for the last 6 years. It isn't something new, but I guess only those that know how to "search" would actually know it.

Also just saying that credit should go to those that have already put that info out there.

O yea? Cause Issam was the only one that knew how to figure out what an 83mm bore and 92.8mm stroke would do? Come on Mike, Issam is a smart guy, hes done a lot for the community, but I dont think even he would be on your side here. Nothing on the boards is really new info anymore anyway

O and btw Mike, Issam and INA didnt figure out that the 2.0Tfsi crank worked in the 06A block, so I guess you cant credit their thread now

[onemoremile]

And heeeeerrrrrrrre's Mike with the cockblock!

I built my engine in my garage and assisted TQMB5 with his and I'm still glad this thread is here. If anyone needs more pics I've got tons of them.

I also agree this should be stickied but in a different way. What I would like to do is create a short and simple thread and compiles the links to all the educational engine building threads like this one, the 2020, the 2220, etc.. That way someone can do all the research all at once. What do you guys think?

[audiFUEGO]

/end_arguing_posts


/begin_build_posts

[Nebone]

The info that has been posted on Vortex and here is crucial for people who aren't going to experiment and want it done right the first time. This engine has been experimented with for years and recorded in these forums. Others have done the hard work by blowing their motors and getting specks just right.

You did build your engine yourself and learned a lot but you have learned most by reading and getting help from others.

Issam or other brave people (tuners) are the people who will figure out new specks for new setups like 2.2T etc. 1.8T has been out for so long and all the info is there, all we need to do is gather it into one thread like Clint has done for example.

[A4Rob]

Thanks Clint. This might be next years winter project!

[dualaudi]

Thanks Clint. This might be next years winter project!

^^ I'm prob 2 years out on this. But I'm glad I have the specs in an easy to read post. Thanks Clint.

[onemoremile]

After doing it, I wouldn't do it again. I'd buy a spare block and all the parts and have an engine builder hot tank and magnaflux the block and then do a full balance and blueprint. They are much better equipped and have the experience to do a much better job. The $350 or so is money well spent.

[TQMB5]

And heeeeerrrrrrrre's Mike with the cockblock!

I built my engine in my garage and assisted TQMB5 with his and I'm still glad this thread is here. If anyone needs more pics I've got tons of them.

I also agree this should be stickied but in a different way. What I would like to do is create a short and simple thread and compiles the links to all the educational engine building threads like this one, the 2020, the 2220, etc.. That way someone can do all the research all at once. What do you guys think?

i think that is a great idea, if you need any pics, i took a ton when i did it. Engine building is definitely something the average enthusiast can do, all i needed was a good helping hand from jim, and to show me how to do all the little things like ring gap, honing and all that other good stuff.

[AudiA4_20T]

The info that has been posted on Vortex and here is crucial for people who aren't going to experiment and want it done right the first time. This engine has been experimented with for years and recorded in these forums. Others have done the hard work by blowing their motors and getting specks just right.

You did build your engine yourself and learned a lot but you have learned most by reading and getting help from others.

Issam or other brave people (tuners) are the people who will figure out new specks for new setups like 2.2T etc. 1.8T has been out for so long and all the info is there, all we need to do is gather it into one thread like Clint has done for example.

agreed, but this is for a 1.8T/2.0T build, which has been done for years, so no one gets credit then. If we want to talk about the 2.2 or other things, I would give Issam credit.

[317ssayzarc]

I also agree this should be stickied but in a different way. What I would like to do is create a short and simple thread and compiles the links to all the educational engine building threads like this one, the 2020, the 2220, etc.. That way someone can do all the research all at once. What do you guys think?

ill do a very nice post if you want to sticky it... im not all knowing but i am pretty familiar in this area... ive sold several stroker kits and am actually in the process of building my own... i actually just balenced and clearenced the block this past weekend... give me a week or so and ill get this done... for every displacement and block style

[killa]

Clint,

I like the writeup, seems as it took a while to do all this. I wouldn't take the time to write all this though lol

[killa]

ill do a very nice post if you want to sticky it... im not all knowing but i am pretty familiar in this area... ive sold several stroker kits and am actually in the process of building my own... i actually just balenced and clearenced the block this past weekend... give me a week or so and ill get this done... for every displacement and block style

I've made some excel sheets for people to use that'll give you the total displacement, you only have to enter the bore, stroke and rod size to get the displacement and rod ratio. I can dig it up and you guys want to it, simple yet effective.

[94jedi]

AEG crank is out of a 2.0 VW not the FSI motor FYI

yep, it's from the mk4 2.slow's with the different intake mani. Basically, the engine that followed the ABA.


Great thread and Yes Jim, please sticky this. in 10 years when I have money, I'd like to revisit this info lol.

thanks to the OP as well for putting all the info down in one place!

[killa]

agreed, but this is for a 1.8T/2.0T build, which has been done for years, so no one gets credit then. If we want to talk about the 2.2 or other things, I would give Issam credit.

These bottom ends are all geometrically the same, these larger displacements have been done before in 220mm 8 and 16v blocks before anything, the problem is the the r/s ratio is really bad and they tend to get lazy and eat bearings.

all 10+ years old

[AudiA4_20T]

I've made some excel sheets for people to use that'll give you the total displacement, you only have to enter the bore, stroke and rod size to get the displacement and rod ratio. I can dig it up and you guys want to it, simple yet effective.

http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore.html

found this sucker online, same idea, thanks for all your help with this Paul

[killa]

http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore.html

found this sucker online, same idea, thanks for all your help with this Paul

That'll work too. Just won't do the rod ratio but wont matter.

[onemoremile]

Stickied. Please keep all posts on topic to minimize clutter.

[Wizard-of-OD]

O and btw Mike, Issam and INA didnt figure out that the 2.0Tfsi crank worked in the 06A block, so I guess you cant credit their thread now

Your right,that would be Andre (Audi4u)...I figured out the AEG crank.Just to recap he wanted to upgrade his cast unit for a forged one and got his hands on an FSI crankshaft,problem was the oil pump gear.

Bob Qzzi then got the cranks and pressed on the correct oil pump gear onto the crankshaft snout.Those are what were posted in the stroker kit thread.

Nice write up though.

[Tiluleshpingen]

nice write up... very informative.. links and pics would enhance this thead even more

[AudiA4_20T]

lol what do you guys need pics of? Seriously I have tons of pics in my install thread

[Tiluleshpingen]

I did'nt get this part

You will need to shave the walls on the inside of the block to make the 92.8mm crank with Scat rods work. Cyl #1 has to be shaved the most, then shave the inner reinforcement of #3 and the lower reinforcement of #3. No need to shave the wall on 4th cyl wall but the piston will hit the oil squirter. Answer: Run a copper shim to move the squirter up so it'll clear the piston squirt."

isnt the machine shop that i will take the block going to bore the cylinder walls? or am i misunderstanding something?

[mike-2ptzero]

I did'nt get this part isnt the machine shop that i will take the block going to bore the cylinder walls? or am i misunderstanding something?

Yes they will bore the cylinder walls, he is talking about the inside of the outer wall of the block(crank case) area because the longer stroke on the 2 liter crank causes the rod to get closer to the block wall as the crank spins.

[317ssayzarc]

heres pics from when i did my motor:

[elanspreiser]

hey this is my first post, but i was wondering what the best way to add hp would be for under a grand... right now im driving a gold 2001 a4 1.8t with 18 in bbs black wheels/ nitto nt555 tires and black out emblems and grille and am interested in some performance... any suggestions??

[mike-2ptzero]

Chip.