Lets hope Garrett gt28r + MTM Stage 3 = Happiness...

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 07:12 PM

I am impressed with the design. Many people stated without seeing the turbo that the flanges seemed to restrict air. The flanges are flush in most cases. We'll see how it goes. cheers! Mike

**zemun2** · 08-18-2004 07:16 PM

Will that turbo bolt on to stock exhaust manifold?

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 07:18 PM

It will now :)

**zemun2** · 08-18-2004 07:23 PM

Keep us up to date. cant wait to get ridd of my SK04 for something bigger and better.

**DLSJ5** · 08-18-2004 07:30 PM

Good luck Mike! Can't wait to here the results!!!

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 07:31 PM

Thanks bud...prayers would be appropriate at this point :)

**zemun2** · 08-18-2004 07:33 PM

Originally posted by bhvrdr
Thanks bud...prayers would be appropriate at this point :)

May the force be with you

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 07:36 PM

LOL...I shall use it wisely :)

**Saturnine** · 08-18-2004 07:39 PM

Schweeeeet

**gearhead** · 08-18-2004 07:41 PM

Mmmmm, tuuurboo. *drools*

Looks great Mike, best of luck, let us know how it treats you!

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 07:44 PM

Thanks fellas...you know ill be posting as my progress occurs.

**DLSJ5** · 08-18-2004 07:46 PM

Mike is that a bracket I see in the Pic? If so that is essential, the T28 kit didn't have a bracket, thus broken and loose studs. Looks like they're on it. You're sticking with the TT injectors?

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 07:51 PM

Yeah,
IIRC didnt the T28 mount directly outward from the aftermarket manifold. This turbo will bolt up underneath the stock manifold keeping the weight inboard towards the engine. cheers! mike

Oh, and yes i'm using the tt225 injectors. They have even been used sucessfully in gt28rs applications. I am more comfortable with their spray pattern as they spray perfectly for the 5V motor. The greentops have a different spray pattern that I have heard made a couple tuners nervous. cheers!

**G_A4** · 08-18-2004 08:05 PM

Originally posted by bhvrdr
It will now :)

good to hear mike. can't wait to see results. just curious, how did you have it bolt on to the stock manifold?

**giago** · 08-18-2004 08:07 PM

It look's Very Impressive!
good luck!

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 08:14 PM

Originally posted by G_A4
good to hear mike. can't wait to see results. just curious, how did you have it bolt on to the stock manifold?

ATP makes adapters and a modified engine mount bracket which will again have to be custom modified by my metal guy. cheers! mike

**G_A4** · 08-18-2004 08:18 PM

Originally posted by bhvrdr
ATP makes adapters and a modified engine mount bracket which will again have to be custom modified by my metal guy. cheers! mike

i see. i'm rooting for you man. if your custom kit works out more doors will opened for us B6 guys, thats great news. what software are you going to run?

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 08:24 PM

Originally posted by G_A4
i see. i'm rooting for you man. if your custom kit works out more doors will opened for us B6 guys. what software are you going to run?

Here's the thing with that...i'm going to run the MTM Stage 3 software which has plenty of headroom for fueling compensation. Currently it runs slightly rich (an MTM trademark) under WOT and the lambda is usually in the negative 1 - 3s when looking at a consistent curve. With this kind of head room i am hoping that the software will work with minimal tweaks. Now we are also going to be running the MAF way up against it's limits so retuning for a 3" maf housing down the road will also be in the works.

I will start my words of caution now...even if this option works for me, it is not necessarily the case that it would work with other K04 software. All K04 software is not created equal, so logging would be a necessity. cheers! Mike

**Silvant** · 08-18-2004 08:42 PM

i see a lonng headache coming...
good luck though..

**bhvrdr** · 08-18-2004 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Silvant
i see a lonng headache coming...
good luck though..

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best is going to be my strategy here :)

**DLSJ5** · 08-18-2004 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Silvant
i see a lonng headache coming...
good luck though..

Explain.

**Silvant** · 08-18-2004 09:54 PM

adaptor plates, stock manifold, mismatched software.. one, i've had bad experiences with plates etc. and although the inlet side looks correct now, i just dont see it running to its potential. we'll see, i definitely hope it does..
there is alot of testing and engineering put into the big turbo kits and the upcoming gt28rs set ups.. there is a reason and a reason for the pricing.. aside from the mtm kits, you do get what you pay for. i've learned the hard way.

**DLSJ5** · 08-18-2004 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Silvant
adaptor plates, stock manifold, mismatched software.. one, i've had bad experiences with plates etc. and although the inlet side looks correct now, i just dont see it running to its potential. we'll see, i definitely hope it does..
there is alot of testing and engineering put into the big turbo kits and the upcoming gt28rs set ups.. there is a reason and a reason for the pricing.. aside from the mtm kits, you do get what you pay for. i've learned the hard way.

The software sounds like it will work, the TT injectors flow plenty of fuel, but you never know. AWE is running the exact same turbo with the stock manifold on their B6 and all they are doing is finishing up the software, they claim 290HP. Still from personal experience I hear you, my T28 was a headache to say the least. How's your Stage 3 running?

**neoprufrok** · 08-18-2004 10:27 PM

So Mike, is Hoppen going to tune it themselves? Or are you using your own programming to garage tune it?

In any case, I wish you luck! The B6 community is really lucky to have people like yourself, Jet Jockey, Silence, and Drew (and many others I'm forgetting) to push the B6 tuning to the limits.

I wish I was so brave.

**Vanimaniac** · 08-18-2004 10:46 PM

And don't forget to dyno it!

Cheers!

Van

**Silvant** · 08-18-2004 11:04 PM

Originally posted by DLSJ5
The software sounds like it will work, the TT injectors flow plenty of fuel, but you never know. AWE is running the exact same turbo with the stock manifold on their B6 and all they are doing is finishing up the software, they claim 290HP. Still from personal experience I hear you, my T28 was a headache to say the least. How's your Stage 3 running?

i have had no problems with my stg3 kit.. running great.
i must say, to run a gt28rs with a stock mani at 290hp is pretty pointless and almost funny.. so far under its potential. kind of surprising from awe.

**DLSJ5** · 08-18-2004 11:15 PM

Originally posted by Silvant
i have had no problems with my stg3 kit.. running great.
i must say, to run a gt28rs with a stock mani at 290hp is pretty pointless and almost funny.. so far under its potential. kind of surprising from awe.

Good to hear on the Stage 3. I'm going with that kit on my B6, hopefully very soon. The AWE kit is a GT28R not RS, isn't that the same turbo you're running with your current Stage 3? Mike's running the same turbo with his project a GT28R. I agree a 28RS would be pointless on our stock manifold, is it even possible?? AWE is also developing a GT28R kit with a manifold as well, 300+ HP.

**Silvant** · 08-18-2004 11:23 PM

Originally posted by DLSJ5
Good to hear on the Stage 3. I'm going with that kit on my B6, hopefully very soon. The AWE kit is a GT28R not RS, isn't that the same turbo you're running with your current Stage 3? Mike's running the same turbo with his project a GT28R. I agree a 28RS would be pointless on our stock manifold, is it even possible?? AWE is also developing a GT28R kit with a manifold as well, 300+ HP.

ahh didnt realize.. still even with the gt28r i figure 290 is low.
apr stg3 is the gt25r, ballbearing.

**G_A4** · 08-18-2004 11:31 PM

Originally posted by DLSJ5
AWE is also developing a GT28R kit with a manifold as well, 300+ HP.

the E05 is good but this is what i'm talking about GT28R 300+HP. drew any idea on ETA and price range?
did you buy the koni coilovers?

**DLSJ5** · 08-18-2004 11:47 PM

Originally posted by G_A4
the E05 is good but this is what i'm talking about GT28R 300+HP. drew any idea on ETA and price range?
did you buy the koni coilovers?

Hey G,

They say early fall and that it will be very affordable for a Stage 3 kit. Although it won't put out what the APR stage 3 will.

Todd also told me that they're making a kit that will match APR's stage 3, it's gonna heat up in the next six months for the B6 crowd, it's about time. I decided to stay with the NS springs and Koni shocks for now, may do Co's down the road, thanks for your help bud.

Silvant,

I'm not positive but I've read and been told that the APR Stage 3 GT25R is the same turbo as the GT28R. You're in Irvine right? I'd like to get a ride in that beast of yours. Let me know.

**G_A4** · 08-19-2004 12:08 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DLSJ5
[B]Hey G,

They say early fall and that it will be very affordable for a Stage 3 kit. Although it won't put out what the APR stage 3 will.

Todd also told me that they're making a kit that will match APR's stage 3, it's gonna heat up in the next six months for the B6 crowd, it's about time. I decided to stay with the NS springs and Koni shocks for now, may do Co's down the road, thanks for your help bud.

yo drew,
just curious what are the HP numbers for the APR satge 3? looking forward to that AWE stage 3 kit there putting out. thanks for all the info.

**teknik** · 08-19-2004 04:07 AM

the only glaring problem I see is fuel pressure.... doesnt the APR stage 3 kit use a 4 bar regulator to push enough fuel through the tt225 injectors....

is 290 on the TT injectors doable at the factory fuel pressure?

ive been following the s4 crowds k04/16 with homemade fueling with interest.... they take a bigger maf, and bigger injectors and end up with a reasonable harmony...

what does Hoppen have to say about your perversion of MTM's kit....

**bhvrdr** · 08-19-2004 04:08 AM

Originally posted by neoprufrok
So Mike, is Hoppen going to tune it themselves? Or are you using your own programming to garage tune it?

In any case, I wish you luck! The B6 community is really lucky to have people like yourself, Jet Jockey, Silence, and Drew (and many others I'm forgetting) to push the B6 tuning to the limits.

I wish I was so brave.

Hi Rich,
Thanks for the kind words. I have a couple optione here. One is sending it out to a programmer in California to modify the fuel maps of the existing software. He assures me its no big deal for him. The next is, as you pointed out, to use a grarage tuner. Another option is the hope that MTM will finally agree to a custom chip (they are closed in germany so i'm in a holding pattern). If all of these things fail, than it may mean going to another chip (already have some one waiting) until MTM comes out with their stage 4. cheers! Mike

**bhvrdr** · 08-19-2004 04:19 AM

Originally posted by teknik
the only glaring problem I see is fuel pressure.... doesnt the APR stage 3 kit use a 4 bar regulator to push enough fuel through the tt225 injectors....

is 290 on the stock injectors doable at the factory fuel pressure?

ive been following the s4 crowds k04/16 with homemade fueling with interest.... they take a bigger maf, and bigger injectors and end up with a reasonable harmony...

what does Hoppen have to say about your perversion of MTM's kit....

Excellent points,
It is hard to use a standard flow calculator on our cars. The flow calculators youll find on the internet were never designed to be compared to a 5 valve turbocarged 4 cylinder. The tt225s have run a gt28rs on more mild to moderate boost with no problems so it looks like the gt28R should not be a problem. I was really worried about the spray pattern and not putting in an injector not designed for the audi 5v motor (hearing minor issues with the green top 440s on startup). The tt225s run between 360 and 380cc on our ruturnless system. Again, I am running slightly rich right now so we'll cross our fingers on this issue.

I think a 3" MAF is really going to benefit this sytem. I am thinking that well really see an increase in the potential of this kit with a larger MAF. I'm sure it will actually run on a smaller MAF, but there is no question it's not going to be at it's full potential. My next project will be tuning a 3" MAF and custom turbo inlet pipe. I am waiting for the el cabonio airbox that will mate directly up to a 3" MAF.

Hoppen is, of course, not allowed to publicly stand behind any buchering of the sacred MTM kits, but they are watching with a morbid curiousity and will lend a hand only if they see me winning the fight :)

cheers! Mike

**DLSJ5** · 08-19-2004 08:33 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by G_A4
[B]

Originally posted by DLSJ5

yo drew,
just curious what are the HP numbers for the APR satge 3? looking forward to that AWE stage 3 kit there putting out. thanks for all the info.

Here are the #'s for the B6 Stage 3 APR GT28RS kit that I've heard about: On 91oct 320HP, 93/340HP, 100/370HP. David/Ecode ran the same 28RS and 71R on his B6, and it was a monster, took a B6 S4 w/milltek on the highway, without a problem. I'm not sure if AWE has released the stats for their 320HP turbo kit, so I'm not gonna post that until they announce it. But supposedly it's comprable to APR's #'s.

**Silvant** · 08-19-2004 09:17 AM

Originally posted by DLSJ5

Silvant,

I'm not positive but I've read and been told that the APR Stage 3 GT25R is the same turbo as the GT28R. You're in Irvine right? I'd like to get a ride in that beast of yours. Let me know.

ya, im in irvine. .
i wouldnt call it a "beast" but you are welcome to come take a ride.

**bhvrdr** · 08-20-2004 05:35 AM

Originally posted by DLSJ5

Silvant,

I'm not positive but I've read and been told that the APR Stage 3 GT25R is the same turbo as the GT28R. You're in Irvine right? I'd like to get a ride in that beast of yours. Let me know.

Here's a place to download the Garrett Catalog. It gives maps and specs for the different turbos.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...downloads.html

**A4NCAR** · 08-20-2004 09:31 AM

Originally posted by bhvrdr
Here's a place to download the Garrett Catalog. It gives maps and specs for the different turbos.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...downloads.html

I was just reading the Garrett Performance GT28R page and was surprised to read what they state about this turbo, not to mention that they offer it as a "drop-in" kit with ECU programming. I wonder what SW they supply with it? They mention all the other details, but neglect to tell the consumer who makes the SW. When you read it, it also sounds as though you could just replace your K03 and nothing else; "Just buy this kit, install it, and you're done..."

Well, if that's true, then I'm sold... where do I pay?
Also makes me wonder why this turbo and the SW just isn't for sale at some aftermarket dealer. Sounds perfect. Just drop it in, reprogram ECU, and presto, you have around 260hp. And all for $1878.45

**bhvrdr** · 08-20-2004 09:40 AM

Originally posted by A4NCAR
I was just reading the Garrett Performance GT28R page and was surprised to read what they state about this turbo, not to mention that they offer it as a "drop-in" kit with ECU programming. I wonder what SW they supply with it? They mention all the other details, but neglect to tell the consumer who makes the SW. When you read it, it also sounds as though you could just replace your K03 and nothing else; "Just buy this kit, install it, and you're done..." Well, if that's true, then I'm sold... where do I pay?
Also makes me wonder why this turbo and the SW just isn't for sale at some aftermarket dealer. Sounds perfect. Just drop it in, reprogram ECU, and presto, you have around 260hp. And all for $1878.45

Technically, they are correct that you could pay your $1900 and get everything you need, but it will come with ATP programming, which has not been well received. Plus, the $1900 price is for the B5 so you would delete the fpr from the price, but add the price of injectors. Figure $2100. cheers! Mike

**A4NCAR** · 08-20-2004 10:26 AM

Originally posted by bhvrdr
Technically, they are correct that you could pay your $1900 and get everything you need, but it will come with ATP programming, which has not been well received. Plus, the $1900 price is for the B5 so you would delete the fpr from the price, but add the price of injectors. Figure $2100. cheers! Mike

Yikes

ATP SW. It pisses me off that these tuners sell SW that isn't totally reliable/proven.

If someone bought this kit for their A4 B6, then it should be flawless. Maybe I'll buy the GT28R and have a local tuner tune it.

Do you think 280hp is possible?

On another topic; who has a vertical flow designed FMIC for us? This is obviously the better design.