K04...GT2X...GT28r...GTRS/GT28rs - Official Turbo Comparison

[A4ringedONE8T]

Here's my GTRS and K04-015

[A4natomical]

/\ LOL cool pick

But what bigger?

GT28RS or GTRS???

just go with your first choice, GTRS. you wont regret it. IMO its the perfect all around turbo. pm me if you have any questions bout it.

[apexslider]

Lots of great info in here, and oddly enough I'm getting ready to make a choice on which one to go with. I could use a tad bit more info/advice (more so advice). I've got an 02 1.8TQ, here's what my car currently has... GIAC fx2 chip, 386 Injectors, Evolution Motorsports Intake, Evolution Motorsports Diverter Valve, Neuspeed Short Shifter, AWE Front-Mount Intercooler, APR Cat-back Exhaust, Techtonics High-Flow Catalytic Converter, Snub Nose, Stoptech Big Brake Kit (332mm, fronts), Goodrich Braided Lines.

Here's the kits I'm looking at...

http://www.ecodetuning.com/shop/cart...t_detail&p=553

http://www.ecodetuning.com/shop/cart...t_detail&p=504

http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shar...ain&IL=gt28rb6

My first concern is I don't want to open the motor up and change internals just yet, but I want more power than my current set up offers. It seems the ATP/Eurocode kits offer more power than the AWE kit, but if all other things are equal how do the 3 compare for longevity? I'm not seeing much difference in pricing being that AWE doesn't offer a manifold, but they do provide a cat, TIP, and turbo support bracket. The other two don’t offer that, but they do have the manifold. Of course, the AWE kit is $3600 compared to $2800 for ATP/Eurocode...but a TIP, cat, and someone to custom fab a support bracket would make the difference up...I would think.

So what to do? My car is my daily driver and I don’t want to ring its neck to get some good power, but this k03 is killing me! I'm wishing I could get my turbo VR motor back and figure out how to cram that under the hood!

All opinions, advice, and flaming welcome

[apexslider]

Nothing? I read the entire thread, not looking for tech info just some good ole fashion "what would you do?" I'm new to the 1.8's so my experience is limited to what I read on the internet...

[Condo]

I went with the GTRS and I'd recommend it. I'm not sure if you get a discount on the awe kit because you already have their software but you might want to look into that.

[B6Lovin]

hey condo - how many miles are on your GTRS?

[Condo]

About 9,000 miles.

[B6Lovin]

you're running an AM manifold right? (id assume either ATP or 034) lmk if you're stepping up to a BAT and wanna get that thing outta your house somtime soon.

[apexslider]

I went with the GTRS and I'd recommend it. I'm not sure if you get a discount on the awe kit because you already have their software but you might want to look into that.

How much power is your car making? Is it usable power for city and highway driving? what made you choose that kit?

[Condo]

I haven't taken it to a dyno yet but I've heard the average is around 265-275whp. I think that the power is fine for city and highway driving. I got the GTRS because I found a good deal and it was in the power range that I wanted. I didn't want to spend the extra thousands on the APR kit and wasn't interested in the AWE kit.

[PRY4SNO]

I've been contemplating the turbo leap for months now.

A big factor I've considered is the ECU reflashing and swapping of injectors. The more I can minimize repetition of that the better. So I'll have to be very certain, and ready to just do it all at once (after my suspension).

A quick look at some dynos from the first page leads me to this conclusion:

GT28r/GTRS (etc.) kits make nice power for a reasonable price but for a bit over half the price I can get a meth'd-k04 to put out 275chp/275tq and I still don't need an intercooler. (I like the stealth/OEM+ look.) The figures are using a 60 chp gain from the meth over Avanteix's dyno figure, with the same torque (does water/meth increase tq?). Compare that to a GT28R kit with 290/295... I'd rather have the cash in hand to do some other things to my car (ecodes, for one, or RNS-E).



$2000 k04: 215hp/275tq (+60 hp for water/meth = 275hp/275tq)

vs.

$3500+ GT28R: 290hp/295tq



That way I don't spend all my cash modding an A4 when I really pine for a B8 Avant S4. And stock-ish reliability is nice too.

[apexslider]

I think I've got it narrowed down to the GTRS or the GT2871. I cant seem to find to many people with the 2871 to see what they feel pros and cons are.

If I was to do the 2871 would I be wise to build up the head for higher revs <7000K?

[turbo944s2]

The Gt28r isnt that bad either. My car moves pretty good with it so far. When its time to do my next timing belt swap, Ill rebuild the motor and go bigger. Only thing that is crappy is the short first gear.

[michpan]

Does anybody have any information about the GT2x ? Is this a hybrid turbo or is it one of Garrett's GT25x turbo models ? How does it compare dimension-wise to GT28R and RS ?

I've considered every BT turbo option in the past (k04-015, K04-023 setup from the older S3, GT28RS, VF34 etc) but the GT2x eliminator seemed to be the smart choice for various reasons. Spool-up is fast, small difference compared to the K03 and in every day driving it's hardly noticeable. I'm FWD so lots of HP isn't an option without an LSD and I didn't want to change pistons or wristpins or whatever. With this kit you can keep the factory MAF case and it's cheap plus you can get away with just an upgraded smic if you don't wish to run very high boost.

I'm about to replace the factory clutch so I haven't dynoed the car yet. Just as an indication, MAF readings peak at 220g/s with a max boost of 1.4bar. I'll probably ask the guy responsible for the custom software if it's safe to get it any higher but the car is very fast as it is now.. :)


Michael

[doublezero30]

Does anybody have any information about the GT2x ? Is this a hybrid turbo or is it one of Garrett's GT25x turbo models ? How does it compare dimension-wise to GT28R and RS ?

I've considered every BT turbo option in the past (k04-015, K04-023 setup from the older S3, GT28RS, VF34 etc) but the GT2x eliminator seemed to be the smart choice for various reasons. Spool-up is fast, small difference compared to the K03 and in every day driving it's hardly noticeable. I'm FWD so lots of HP isn't an option without an LSD and I didn't want to change pistons or wristpins or whatever. With this kit you can keep the factory MAF case and it's cheap plus you can get away with just an upgraded smic if you don't wish to run very high boost.

I'm about to replace the factory clutch so I haven't dynoed the car yet. Just as an indication, MAF readings peak at 220g/s with a max boost of 1.4bar. I'll probably ask the guy responsible for the custom software if it's safe to get it any higher but the car is very fast as it is now.. :)


Michael

i remember reading about it being a bad choice but i forget why. i think something to do with the way the turbo is cooled...but i could be making that up.

[apexslider]

is this correct, GTRS = GT2860, and the GT28RS = GT2560?

[B6Lovin]

i think the GT2x is the 2560

[apexslider]

i think the GT2x is the 2560

ok, I finally found what I was looking for...kinda. According to ATP the GT28r is a GT2560. I now know the difference between the GT28r and GT28RS. I know the GTRS isn't the GT2560, and I know it isn't the GT2871...but what the hell is it? I'm not finding anything that shows what that turbo actually is. Is GTRS just another name for the GT28RS?

[B6Lovin]

from my understanding,

GTRS = GT2860RS = special exhaust flange on a disco potato.
(GT2860R = disco potato)

and if you didnt know - garrett has a whole thing about turbo nomenclature on their website. lots of mumbo jumbo in there - but the R means ball bearing, and i think the "S" comes from the fact that it's a special production turbo meant only for our engines. basically, in GT2860R -- the GT indicates that its a garrett "GT" seies turbo, the 28 indicates the size of the turbine frame (basicaly, the size in millimeters across the larger diameter of the wheel which the exhaust gases are spinning) and the 60 indicates the size in millimeters of the larger diameter of the compressor wheel (the wheel which pressurizes the air going into the engine). This is why all 28 series turbos have the same size exhaust housing, but the 60 and 71R have different size compressor housings. (compressor = the shiny part) <- i included that for people who might be confused after reading that. lol

[apexslider]

from my understanding,

GTRS = GT2860RS = special exhaust flange on a disco potato.
(GT2860R = disco potato)

and if you didnt know - garrett has a whole thing about turbo nomenclature on their website. lots of mumbo jumbo in there - but the R means ball bearing, and i think the "S" comes from the fact that it's a special production turbo meant only for our engines.

Yeah, I've been doing some reading on there, learned allot. The "S" just means that it needs to be noted the specific turbo is different from the others in the same family, not necessarily because of our engines. And the "RS" is the Disco Potato. But I couldn't find a definite answer on the GTRS being the Disco Potato, especially when ATP says the GT28r is actually a GT2560...just a bit confusing for a noob. I get all the sizing and that type of stuff, I've just been trying to figure out what the hell turbo that was since I've never heard it called that before

[B6Lovin]

ahhhh gotcha.

yeah, i'm clueless too. some turbos just get named up a class because i guess they're at the upper limit of their series, and they may have similar capabilities/characteristics but different dimensions

[apexslider]

I went looking around and found some guys running the GTRS, they also referrenced GT28RS so it would seem it is the same. I sent ATP an email but never heard back. Guess it seems I was the only person alive that didn't know that little tid bit of info!

[Condo]

They are not the same. Read post 99 again.

[apexslider]

They are not the same. Read post 99 again.

I did read it...two problems, one it is not consistant with what the Garrett web site says, and two I asked someone running the GTRS kit if it was a GT2860RS and the said no. Garrett says the only "Disco Potato" is the GT2860RS. According to them the GT2860R does not carry that name. Now, GTRS would indicate to me its a Garrett turbo yet Garrett holds no info on that turbo (GTRS) at all under that name. So I would now be led to believe that turbo is specific for ATP, but I cant get them to answer. So am I to understand the GTRS is not a GT2860 of any kind, R or RS? And if not, what is it?
Here's what Garrett says about the R and RS..
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...S_739548_1.htm

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_707160_5.htm

And why ATP calls a GT2560R a GT28r will always boggle my mind. I guess this would all be easier (for me) if there was more consistancy between the manufacture and dealer. This has to be a super easy thing to understand and I'm just missing the obvious...

[apexslider]

I talked to Eurocode, very nice guys, and was informed the GTRS is a variation of the GT2860 but not an R or RS. They said it was closer to the RS but still has a different hotside to fit stock location. Glad that's over.... If everything goes right I'm ordering the GT2871 kit from Eurocode next week.

[MSMITTY]

any consultation guys, i went through this debate many times in my head...i've had the B5 with the KO4 pc-16 & decided with the B6, that i didn't want that hard torque spike drive, instead i wanted something with a smoother delivery, but with a nice kick for an every day driver in ny metro area....any way, i went the AWE GT28R kit, i have to say that this kit is very nice & the delivery is super smooth & the car pulls hard right to the red line..i have zero complaints....obviously there are other choices out there if you want big hp/tq #'s, just go with something that best suits your driving habits....my .02, good luck!!

[B6Lovin]

I talked to Eurocode, very nice guys, and was informed the GTRS is a variation of the GT2860 but not an R or RS. They said it was closer to the RS but still has a different hotside to fit stock location. Glad that's over.... If everything goes right I'm ordering the GT2871 kit from Eurocode next week.

well its good to finally know for sure. hahahaha.
i kept looking at the gt2871... but it seemed to me that they weren't making much - if any - more power than the GTRS, and had a slower spool (by 2 or 3 hundred rpm... which is a lot to me. lol)

i'm getting close to completing my kit too though - we'll have to compare setups after we're both done.
i go for a baseline dyno next week too.... it'll be embarrassing cuz i'm going with a stage 4 corrado and a URs6 converted to RS2... but it'll still be fun. hahaha

[apexslider]

well its good to finally know for sure. hahahaha.
i kept looking at the gt2871... but it seemed to me that they weren't making much - if any - more power than the GTRS, and had a slower spool (by 2 or 3 hundred rpm... which is a lot to me. lol)

i'm getting close to completing my kit too though - we'll have to compare setups after we're both done.
i go for a baseline dyno next week too.... it'll be embarrassing cuz i'm going with a stage 4 corrado and a URs6 converted to RS2... but it'll still be fun. hahaha

dont feel bad, I'm taking mine to get a baseline too...the same place I dyno'd my 400hp vrt and my 460hp Cobra. I like the 2871 because I love me some race gas and that's probably where I'll see the difference. But for city driving it help keep me honest with later spool

[diagnosticator]

I'm late to this discussion, but your original post is missing the GT2554R, a dual ball bearing water cooled turbo comparable in size to a K-04, but spools faster, and has better efficiency with an extended top end capability. This turbo is the unit that would be worth consideration and answers the questions you conclude your op with.
If the GT2554R has already been discussed in this thread, please disregard.

[apexslider]

I'm late to this discussion, but your original post is missing the GT2554R, a dual ball bearing water cooled turbo comparable in size to a K-04, but spools faster, and has better efficiency with an extended top end capability. This turbo is the unit that would be worth consideration and answers the questions you conclude your op with.
If the GT2554R has already been discussed in this thread, please disregard.

I was told depending on the k04 you went with you could get the same results.

[B6Lovin]

I was told depending on the k04 you went with you could get the same results.

you'll pay out your butt for that k04 though. i'm assuming you're referring to a special one like JJ's k04-19...

diagnosticator is one SMART guy - his advice is some of the best on the site... if you really want to be enlightened, just read through his posts.

[apexslider]

you'll pay out your butt for that k04 though. i'm assuming you're referring to a special one like JJ's k04-19...

diagnosticator is one SMART guy - his advice is some of the best on the site... if you really want to be enlightened, just read through his posts.

Thats good to know. It's always nice knowing who you can believe and who you want to stay away from. Especially in this industry, everyone has "thee" setup that looks great on paper or a website...

Is there any way (not sure of the legalities) that we can post the info from Garretts site regarding Turbo Tech in this sticky? I really thought that was great info. I'm not sure how Intellectual Property Rights work with info on websites...so I dont want to just start cutting and pasting.

[B6Lovin]

no clue - but i mean... if you learn something from a book, and post it online - its not illegal

i guess to be safe you could credit garrett/honeywell for all information that you take from their site, and provide a link back. seeing as how garrett turbos seem to be the most popular aside from borg-warner i do think it would be very valuable information to have on the site.

[apexslider]

I just did this instead...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...24#post2260224

[diagnosticator]

I just did this instead...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...24#post2260224

Good move, I was going to suggest that, but you did it first, avoids any copyright problems.

[TonyD]

I've been thinking about a turbo upgrade for a while. I just want to get some more info from more people. A few questions:

1.How much WHP will a K04 add over a Neuspeed chip, Ecode Test pipe, and Neuspeed Exhaust?

2. What is the MOST you could get out of a K04 with any other mods you need to add like FMIC, Meth, whatever.

[apexslider]

I've been thinking about a turbo upgrade for a while. I just want to get some more info from more people. A few questions:

1.How much WHP will a K04 add over a Neuspeed chip, Ecode Test pipe, and Neuspeed Exhaust?

2. What is the MOST you could get out of a K04 with any other mods you need to add like FMIC, Meth, whatever.

I think someone was saying its possible to get upwards of 250whp with a K04, depending on the trim, and ALL supporting mods. If you read back a few pages I think its talked about. As for how much more power it will make, I've heard 40chp. Some one asked me this, so now I'll ask you; why do you want to get a bigger small turbo? If your thinking FMIC and meth, just go BT or BAT!!

[Condo]

K04 is 250hp at the crank, not at the wheels. There isn't really much of a HP boost from going K04, just a much improved torque curve.

[B6Lovin]

Some one asked me this, so now I'll ask you; why do you want to get a bigger small turbo? If your thinking FMIC and meth, just go BT or BAT!!

amen

/thread

[apexslider]

K04 is 250hp at the crank, not at the wheels. There isn't really much of a HP boost from going K04, just a much improved torque curve.

I was going off of a few things I read on another audi forum as well as post #91 in this thread. but I did confuse chp and whp