Project Frontrash GT3071R :)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Im guessing I would need 22psi or so to get back to 300 on pump, does that make sense?

300 with the GTRS on 24psi 93/100 mix would be the same as the 3071R on that much boost on 93. How much gain is there between T7 and T9?

I know the dyno was no different just trying to rationalize it, seems like alot of boost with this turbo just to get to 300, maybe my motor is just weak ...

Do a compression check. You could have a weaker engine remember you did only dyno 298 front whp on a dynojet compared to my 321 ALL whp on a mustang. I know conditions are different, dynos are different etc etc but 23whp is a nice difference and also when you factor in my AWD would have been pulling more power away (Me FWD would have been say 330-335whp ) Also you trapped the same mph with FWD where I would think you would have been 1-2mph faster expecially since you have a better intercooler and also meth going where I didnt have meth and "shitty intercooler" therefore losing a little more timing after going through the gears due to increasing intake temps.

[A4ringedONE8T]

Do a compression check. You could have a weaker engine remember you did only dyno 298 front whp on a dynojet compared to my 321 ALL whp on a mustang. I know conditions are different, dynos are different etc etc but 23whp is a nice difference and also when you factor in my AWD would have been pulling more power away (Me FWD would have been say 330-335whp ) Also you trapped the same mph with FWD where I would think you would have been 1-2mph faster expecially since you have a better intercooler and also meth going where I didnt have meth and "shitty intercooler" therefore losing a little more timing after going through the gears due to increasing intake temps.

I will do all that the end of the month with the build If something was wrong such as that it would show in logs, on the plugs, exhaust gas smell, something. I think my car is just on the bottom of the acceptable power range scale to be honest

[Silence]

And there is a pretty big difference between a 71R elim and a GT3071R

Umm, not really. Here are the specs per ATP

3071R:

-Wheel: 60mm w/ 84 trim
-Housing: .63 ar, .82 ar, 1.06 ar
-Maps

Compressor
-Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 trim
-Housing: .50 ar

2871R
-Wheel: 53.85mm w/ 76 trim
-Housing: .86 or .64 ar
-Maps

Compressor
-Wheel: 71mm w/ 52 trim
-Housing: .60 ar


As you can see, compressor specs are very similar. It's mainly the exhaust side and housing differences that account for the slightly higher power rating and flow up top. Which is why the spool characteristics are so close between your GTRS and this turbo.

Believe me, I looked into all this years ago. If I ever went past my eliminator setup, it was going to be a 3076. Sadly, my car was totalled before that could happen.

[Don Supreme]

Umm, not really. Here are the specs per ATP


As you can see, compressor specs are very similar. It's mainly the exhaust side and housing differences that account for the slightly higher power rating and flow up top. Which is why the spool characteristics are so close between your GTRS and this turbo.

Believe me, I looked into all this years ago. If I ever went past my eliminator setup, it was going to be a 3076. Sadly, my car was totalled before that could happen.

not even close.....

Most I have seen from a 71r elim is 33x AWHP. I have seen well over 400 fwhp from a 3071.

Example #1


Example #2

2 liter
3071r
104 octane
HP & TQU at the wheels.


Almost 450FWHP

[A4ringedONE8T]

not even close.....

Most I have seen from a 71r elim is 33x AWHP. I have seen well over 400 fwhp from a 3071.

Thank you, wasnt sure how to respond to that because I know the turbo's are not anywere close as far as power levels

[A4 TSCHUSS]

If something was wrong such as that it would show in logs, on the plugs, exhaust gas smell, something.

Nah, low compression wont cause something out of the ordinary unless it is very negligible, especially if your cylinders are all close to each other. I am really curious now to know what your compression is. It should be right at 185psi give or take a couple to be "perfect."

[A4ringedONE8T]

Nah, low compression wont cause something out of the ordinary unless it is very negligible, especially if your cylinders are all close to each other. I am really curious now to know what your compression is. It should be right at 185psi give or take a couple to be "perfect."

Ill check it before it comes apart

[Silence]

not even close.....

Most I have seen from a 71r elim is 33x AWHP. I have seen well over 400 fwhp from a 3071.

Example #1


Example #2

2 liter
3071r
104 octane
HP & TQU at the wheels.


Almost 450FWHP

Are you really arguing this with me? My point was that 50whp is a nominal difference to change setups to me. Just as you have seen a couple in the 400 whp, and they are far in the minority of 3071r setups, there are many in the 350whp range. I have seen many 2871r setups in the 350 whp + range also. Look in up on vortex if you odn't believe me. And yes, the turbos do have similar specs. The main difference in the gt71r vs gt2871r is the trim on the compressor wheel trim is slightly smaller, resulting in better midrange, but tapering power in the upper rpms.

The whole point of me posting is that Shawn would have no problem running his car at higher boost levels, as you can see, even at 18 psi, the power is much less than his GTRS. Which agrees with everything I have already said. If that were a 3076 or higher, I guarantee the 18psi would be above his old number.

Either way, I was just trying to amp Shawn to boost it to 22 psi, as it will be safe at that level, given the track records of our VW cousins. Being that I had a BT on my B6 5 years ago, and went thru 3 different setups, I think I know a little of what I am talking about.

[A4ringedONE8T]

I really dont think there would be much difference between this and a 3076R

[Silence]

I really dont think there would be much difference between this and a 3076R

Just about another 50(conservative) hp per Garrett.http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ison_sheet.htm

[Silence]

And just to further back up what I was saying, here's a dyno ATP did on a car, where all they did was switch the turbo and tune. Not the exact same turbos were speaking of, but close enough.

[A4ringedONE8T]

I cant find that graph but not sure what your point is, that must have been on 18psi, lol

Heres the real 28RS to 3071R swap

Just for the purpose of data collection, the GT28RS turbo in the GT28RS kit was swapped out for one of Garrett's newest GT3071R variants. The results were staggering and what we found were unprecedented levels of performance and HP output from the turbo engine, due to the combination of the high flowing wheel profile and the reduced backpressure. Garrett’s modern wheel aerodynamics proves again that small engines can make big HP AND Torque!
As dyno results here indicate, over 400 ft/lbs of torque is achieved before 4500 rpm and peak HP is 426 WHP on the Quattro (all wheel drive) drivetrain. This equates to over 500 HP at the flywheel before the frictional loss through the drive line. To test real world performance, the car was taken to the track and an 11.97 second timeslip was produced. Trap speeds reached as high as 121MPH. Simply amazing!

Noteworthy: All engine components including engine block, cylinder head, cams, etc. remain stock. Only reprogramming of the stock ECU along with larger injectors were required to accomodate the additional horsepower.

[Silence]

My point is that those are basically the two turbos we are discussing, and the difference, although definitely noticable, isn't huge. Here's the link http://www.atpturbo.com/root/releases/dynos_gt3071r.htm

Ya I remember seeing that above posting. Notice it's from a 28rs though, and not a 2871r (which shares the same compressor wheel as the 3071r)

Either way, the best is the last blurb about stock engine (although on an AEB). Crank that shiz up.

[Don Supreme]

^ I am with you on the fact that most are going to be in 350whp range, but I really don't consider a 71r elim the same as Full GT2871R.... I have seen full 2871r do close to 400 and one case above 400 fwhp on 1.8Ts.

I also used to run a 71r elim and I really didn't like that turbo.

[mike-2ptzero]

And just to further back up what I was saying, here's a dyno ATP did on a car, where all they did was switch the turbo and tune. Not the exact same turbos were speaking of, but close enough.

what was the boost level ran and were both running the same exact boost level? Because I think once the GT3071r is pushed to 30psi it is going to be a different story since the GT2871r cant hold that boost level to redline like the 3071r can. I think that is where the big difference in 2 turbos is going to come into play.

Well the only thing that can be looked at on the ATP dyno plots is the hp/tq curve, because their dyno reads very high even for a dynojet, but what do you expect from a shop that uses its dyno to sell products.

[Silence]

what was the boost level ran and were both running the same exact boost level? Because I think once the GT3071r is pushed to 30psi it is going to be a different story since the GT2871r cant hold that boost level to redline like the 3071r can. I think that is where the big difference in 2 turbos is going to come into play.

Well the only thing that can be looked at on the ATP dyno plots is the hp/tq curve, because their dyno reads very high even for a dynojet, but what do you expect from a shop that uses its dyno to sell products.

I agree. Like I said, my whole point was to assure Shawn that he was far from the sweet spot in the turbo. 18 psi on that turbo is just waking it up, and he wouldn't have to worry until he was in the mid 20s. Even from his logs and dyno, there is still plenty of room.

[Silence]

^ I am with you on the fact that most are going to be in 350whp range, but I really don't consider a 71r elim the same as Full GT2871R.... I have seen full 2871r do close to 400 and one case above 400 fwhp on 1.8Ts.

I also used to run a 71r elim and I really didn't like that turbo.

Ya, I know they're not the same, but also not far off. I had a 71r eliminator on my b6. It was good for what I wanted at the time, but if I did it all over, I definitely would have went larger. Either way, it's great to see some b6'ers go larger. I wish I still had mine, but then again, my stage 3 s4 isn't so bad.

[F16HTON]

The 71R eliminator and the 30-71 are pretty far off. The most I have seen on the eliminator is 350AWHP.

The GT30-71R is good for well over 400AWHP. The 1.8T loves boost. The problem with the eliminators is that they are only good for 25PSI.

35PSI on the GT30-71R is its sweet spot.

[A4ringedONE8T]

The 71R eliminator and the 30-71 are pretty far off. The most I have seen on the eliminator is 350AWHP.

The GT30-71R is good for well over 400AWHP. The 1.8T loves boost. The problem with the eliminators is that they are only good for 25PSI.

35PSI on the GT30-71R is its sweet spot.

You sure the bottom end route we're doing is going to take that?

[mike-2ptzero]

I agree. Like I said, my whole point was to assure Shawn that he was far from the sweet spot in the turbo. 18 psi on that turbo is just waking it up, and he wouldn't have to worry until he was in the mid 20s. Even from his logs and dyno, there is still plenty of room.

Yeah. I explained that to him on page 22

So when are we all going to head out to vegas to visit?

You sure the bottom end route we're doing is going to take that?

Well the sweet spot of the 3071 is around 25psi to 30psi. The GT35r sweet spot is 30-35psi but can be pushed to 40psi.

If you plan on pushing the turbos that high you really need to lower the CR down to 8.5:1 or 9.0:1, the lower you go the higher the adv timing you can run with that high boost level and the timing makes up for the lower CR while off boost but there is a limit of how much off boost adv timing you can run. For example, I run a 8.5:1 CR, run 32psi, still run 20+ degs of adv timing in the higher rpms at full boost and run 110 octane. If I ran C16 I could push that timing up maybe another 8-10 degs across the board.

[Don Supreme]

I highly doubt a 3071 is going to be making any real power diff past 31 psi.... Even it will start to die off past that (in terms of power increase going from 31 -> 35).

[A4ringedONE8T]

Yeah. I explained that to him on page 22

So when are we all going to head out to vegas to visit?




Well the sweet spot of the 3071 is around 25psi to 30psi. The GT35r sweet spot is 30-35psi but can be pushed to 40psi.

If you plan on pushing the turbos that high you really need to lower the CR down to 8.5:1 or 9.0:1, the lower you go the higher the adv timing you can run with that high boost level and the timing makes up for the lower CR while off boost but there is a limit of how much off boost adv timing you can run. For example, I run a 8.5:1 CR, run 32psi, still run 20+ degs of adv timing in the higher rpms at full boost and run 110 octane. If I ran C16 I could push that timing up maybe another 8-10 degs across the board.

I want 375-400 on pump and would like to see a 450ish dyno (on race gas) once I get the head done, what boost do you think thats going to take?

[mike-2ptzero]

I want 375-400 on pump and would like to see a 450ish dyno (on race gas) once I get the head done, what boost do you think thats going to take?

Once you start getting over that 20psi hump you should start seeing a nice gain in power and air flow from that turbo, there should be a big jump from 20-25psi and again from 25-30psi on race fuel or your WI.


If you are going to get the head done and put in some cams you could aways switch out the turbo to a GT3076r which will take advantage of the head work and cams. Also make sure you change out the valve springs so you can start taking it to 8k without having to worry about valve float since valve float will cause your hp to drop off at high rpms.

[A4ringedONE8T]

What Im saving on the bottom end is all going in the head, cams, ti springs and retainers, oversized valves, ported runners and large port intake mani, maybe a VR6 TB

Im not set in stone on power, I just want something worthwhile of the work, I would think 25psi would be more than enough for a DD, hopefully that hits in the mid 300's, guess we'll have to see

[SinisterA4]

400HPA4, So when are you going BAT?

[Don Supreme]

^ He wants NOS! (ha)

[A4 ABT]

I guess there is replacement for displacement ;)

[A4ringedONE8T]

400HPA4, So when are you going BAT?

Patience

[A4ringedONE8T]

I guess there is replacement for displacement ;)

I guess there is a "Substitution" for displacement

[7speed]

this is like the longest F'in post ever

[A4ringedONE8T]

this is like the longest F'in post ever

haha

[SinisterA4]

this is like the longest F'in post ever

Quite possibly but honestly chalk full of good information and conversation. There is nothing in here that wasn't a good read!

[A4ringedONE8T]

Quite possibly but honestly chalk full of good information and conversation. There is nothing in here that wasn't a good read!

I know surprised we have kept the BS out!!! 23 pages and Im not even done yet

[dirtybrd]

I could of had 23 pages but didn't have as much money readily available. You're a poophead! Im bringing in the BS!

[A4ringedONE8T]

I could of had 23 pages but didn't have as much money readily available. You're a poophead! Im bringing in the BS!

Rods will be here Thursday

[dirtybrd]

Got those already! I hope I have my turbo back before Greg gets here.

[Nebone]

So I skipped the thought of having K04 for an Eliminator, now I'm skipping the eliminator and in good time go 3071R. This tubo is the best solution I can think of and many people are jumping into one.

There is that green modded GTI (goes to shows and was featured in EuroTuner) running ATP setup 3071R making 350fwhp on a stock motor and its a daily driver. I understand that you feel like your driving a ticking time bomb but you can definately go higher to 22 psi+ and be on the safe side. Your reliability factor is coming awfully close to 1 tho.

[A4ringedONE8T]

So I skipped the thought of having K04 for an Eliminator, now I'm skipping the eliminator and in good time go 3071R. This tubo is the best solution I can think of and many people are jumping into one.

There is that green modded GTI (goes to shows and was featured in EuroTuner) running ATP setup 3071R making 350fwhp on a stock motor and its a daily driver. I understand that you feel like your driving a ticking time bomb but you can definately go higher to 22 psi+ and be on the safe side. Your reliability factor is coming awfully close to 1 tho.

No reason to push it when my bottom end is coming by the first of next month

[Nebone]

Current setup is just a teaser until the hardware is in. So you control timing with Lemmiwinks?

[dirtybrd]

Rods will be here Thursday

What going on with the thing from the guy that we know who does that stuff with that company on the other coast?