Turbo Question...Any one wanna help find my answer?

**BoostedA4tQ** · 08-12-2004 10:47 AM

Ok i have been doing allot of reading lately on turbos just trying to get more familiar with them.

My concern is how do i know how much fuel i need for different sized turbos?

Lets say i want to put a bigger turbo but its not a kit and i want to know how much fuel i would need is there chart or formula in finding out how to measure the fuel needed for different sized turbos?

**voodooA4** · 08-12-2004 10:58 AM

not really...its more of a matter of 'how much fuel do I need for the amount of air this turbo is pushing'. Once you figure out how much air the turbo is flowing (from the compressor maps), that'll give you an idea of where to start...

maybe a tuner or someone else experienced can give more details...

**awe4rings** · 08-12-2004 11:02 AM

Even if its not a kit, you will be required to upgrade your software and other components in order for your car to run efficiently with the new turbo. Your specific software will take care of fuel, and then you will have to replace either an fpr or injectors, or maybe both. They need to be replaced because your new software is designed to work with them and those genius engineers that designed your software use those variables to compensate for the increase level of boost being forced into your engine.

**skene** · 08-12-2004 11:25 AM

there are too many factors involved.

You must consider the amount of air being pressurized by the turbo.
You must also consider the injector sizing.
You must do datalogging to verify air/fuel
You must factor in engine timing to take advantage of the additional fuel delivery.
Too many factors.

**BoostedA4tQ** · 08-12-2004 11:25 AM

Well if i have tuneable software like Revo or Giac is that good enough...just would have to do test runs and dyno tuning... is that a possibility...i know Revo has a program out there called Lemmiwinks...cani use that to tune my car for different turbo and injectors..

**skene** · 08-12-2004 11:26 AM

Nope... that only gives you slight options.... it is not a fully tunable program.
just allows you to adjust small parameters.

**BoostedA4tQ** · 08-12-2004 11:29 AM

So confusing...but im going to learn...well im running a EO-5 kit runs great no problems yet...but just looking into future upgrade and i want to piece together a kit..but its starting to look like its not going to work...whats the most power we can get out of Stock internals?

**bitterchild** · 08-13-2004 06:41 AM

stock internals can push 350bhp w/o blinking... but nothing can take serious detonation, preignition or overheating

**BoostedA4tQ** · 08-13-2004 07:14 AM

Thanks for the Heads up... so what you all think of taking out the E05 putting a T28 used get the manifold done and leave all the software ihave now and injectors...you think it would work? i have sps 3

**bitterchild** · 08-19-2004 06:15 PM

Assuming you get everything together mechanically, the car will run, but nothing close to well. You will be all over the place running rich and lean due to the improper fuel map. The fact that you're asking these types of questions leads me to recommend you to stick w/ a kit. With all due respect, you're in over your head.

**Devious27t** · 08-19-2004 06:27 PM

Originally posted by skene
Nope... that only gives you slight options.... it is not a fully tunable program.
just allows you to adjust small parameters.

not to mention that you can only adjust boost across the fuel map that is pre programmed in the chip already..... since the fuel map needs to be adjusted around boost this is not necessarily a good thing if you are running a k03 chip on a big turbo, you will be rich in some areas but lean in others.... the same goes for timing.... i wouldnt bank your engine on them...

**AspenSti** · 08-22-2004 09:11 PM

there are calculators that you can use to estimate what type of fuel flow you need to support certain turbos on certain applications. There are indeed, ALOT of factors involved for this...everything from turbo size to elevation of the car.

I mean, I can show you the way...but if I were to sit here an explain it all...my fingers would start to hurt...my brains too.

**AspenSti** · 08-22-2004 09:12 PM

here, try to understand this one. Its a favorite of mine.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-air-fuel-flow.htm

**BoostedA4tQ** · 08-23-2004 06:30 AM

Hey thanks for the help....i already have a turbo upgrade just want to start getting ready for future upgrade for more power.

**DLSJ5** · 08-24-2004 09:41 AM

Originally posted by bitterchild
stock internals can push 350bhp w/o blinking... but nothing can take serious detonation, preignition or overheating

Exactly right! Keep the intake temps down that's the key to keeping our engine's safe. These all do the trick, FMIC, Copper Plugs, Power Gasket and Hi Flow Cat or Testpipe.

**G_A4** · 08-25-2004 09:41 AM

Originally posted by BoostedA4tQ
Ok i have been doing allot of reading lately on turbos just trying to get more familiar with them.

My concern is how do i know how much fuel i need for different sized turbos?

Lets say i want to put a bigger turbo but its not a kit and i want to know how much fuel i would need is there chart or formula in finding out how to measure the fuel needed for different sized turbos?

you'll probably run green top 440cc injectors for a bigger sized turbo like the ATP GT28RS. you'll need the proper software to run fuel into the injectors for proper flow. fuel mapping. keeping intake temps down is a must too with the upgrade turbo.

**Devious27t** · 08-25-2004 12:12 PM

Originally posted by G_A4
you'll probably run green top 440cc injectors for a bigger sized turbo like the ATP GT28RS. you'll need the proper software to run fuel into the injectors for proper flow. fuel mapping. keeping intake temps down is a must too with the upgrade turbo.

actually you cannot run the Green tops on A4's successfully... the 1.8L does not produce enought load to meet the minimum pulse rate of the green top injector (min=1.70ms) an A4 will idle with a pulse rate of 1.64ms, this will cause the cars idle to search and rough idle. the rough idle will lead to misfiring and a rich condition. this is another one of the issues with big turbos on the A4 finding larger injectors that will idle.

i am not sure what Revo did to make them idle in silences car but i would assume that this has something to do with why the car would not idle with the MAF hooked up.... I am still researching as to understand why. If i had to venture a guess i would say that the MAF was adjusting the load of the engine according to the air it was reading and at the given airflow at idle the load was too low. removing the MAF would allow Revo to increase the load at idle thus giving the injectors enough to let the car idle properly which i would not condone anyone doing.

**Silence** · 08-26-2004 02:28 PM

Perhaps, the MAF issue is definitely wierd. Although I will be trying something else relatively soon. As soon as I receive my carbonio, I will try several different MAF's to see how the car responds. I'll post the results afterwards.

On another note, as soon as I ran the new software, the idle was fine witht he MAF, only after a 10 minutes or so did it begin running pig rich at idle, whether that was an adaption stage, I dunno. Although I have not thrown any codes other than the MAF since I put the software on my car.

**Devious27t** · 08-26-2004 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Silence
Perhaps, the MAF issue is definitely wierd. Although I will be trying something else relatively soon. As soon as I receive my carbonio, I will try several different MAF's to see how the car responds. I'll post the results afterwards.

On another note, as soon as I ran the new software, the idle was fine witht he MAF, only after a 10 minutes or so did it begin running pig rich at idle, whether that was an adaption stage, I dunno. Although I have not thrown any codes other than the MAF since I put the software on my car.

that is because of the ecu adapting to the load... i have the green tops in my car as well and when the car start it idles fine and pulls hard and after about 10 mins of driving/warming up at WOT the car will misfire because it is so rich and my idle has a blip in it. when the car warms up i see about a 2.1 m/s injector pulse that is when it runs fine....

**G_A4** · 08-27-2004 03:47 PM

Originally posted by DVS18t
that is because of the ecu adapting to the load... i have the green tops in my car as well and when the car start it idles fine and pulls hard and after about 10 mins of driving/warming up at WOT the car will misfire because it is so rich and my idle has a blip in it. when the car warms up i see about a 2.1 m/s injector pulse that is when it runs fine....

why don't you try running 386cc injectors. those put out some good power and are very efficient and you might be able to work around the rich issue with the green tops your running.

**Devious27t** · 08-27-2004 07:44 PM

Originally posted by G_A4
why don't you try running 386cc injectors. those put out some good power and are very efficient and you might be able to work around the rich issue with the green tops your running.

already got something in the works.... doing something no one has ever done before.....