Help with VAG-COM log reading

[zemun2]

I need help with VAG-COM log reading. I'm monitoring blocks # 003,020,117.

From my understanding block 003 is

-RPM
-Air mass I was told good range is from 187-190 g/s
-Throttle valve angle (Potentiometer)
-Ignition angle (actual)
why am I getting so high numbers on ignition angle?

Block 020

-Ignition angle retard Cyl. 1
-Ignition angle retard Cyl. 2
-Ignition angle retard Cyl. 3
-Ignition angle retard Cyl. 4

I was told they should not exceed 3-5.
Why am I showing diff reading on all 4 cyl.? (8.3-3-6-8.3)

You can check the .csv file here
http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/...=/Audi&.view=l

TIA
Dejan

[bhvrdr]

You're numbers look solid,

Under WOT your timing retard is solid at zero and close to it. Your maf is getting up into the 180s, but seems to hover more around the 160 mark, which may be normal for a car running lower levels of boost. I hit a solid 180-190 but am pushing more air. Your btdc is totally normal and will have little fluctuations like that all the time. No worries there. You may want to log your lambda values as well but i would bet money they are withing normal limits as your timing retard looks good. cheers! mike

[zemun2]

Originally posted by bhvrdr
You're numbers look solid,

Under WOT your timing retard is solid at zero and close to it. Your maf is getting up into the 180s, but seems to hover more around the 160 mark, which may be normal for a car running lower levels of boost. I hit a solid 180-190 but am pushing more air. Your btdc is totally normal and will have little fluctuations like that all the time. No worries there. You may want to log your lambda values as well but i would bet money they are withing normal limits as your timing retard looks good. cheers! mike

Mike,
What's the normal btdc value?
What block do I need to monotor to get lambda value, and whats normal range?
What's the safe limit for timing retard, and why diff values on all 4 cyl?

Thanks
D,

[Mark]

You're definately seeing some knock sensor activation in 020 going all the way to 8.3 . . . I am as well with my K04 setup when I check 020. I changed back to stock and they read 0.0 nearly the whole time. I have been wanting to fool with lemmiworks and my vag cable to retard the ingnition angle. Perhaps tomorrow I'll get on the pc and log some data . . .

[zemun2]

Originally posted by Mark
You're definately seeing some knock sensor activation in 020 going all the way to 8.3 . . . I am as well with my K04 setup when I check 020. I changed back to stock and they read 0.0 nearly the whole time. I have been wanting to fool with lemmiworks and my vag cable to retard the ingnition angle. Perhaps tomorrow I'll get on the pc and log some data . . .

Mark,
You are talking about Ch.09 "ignition timing offset" in Lemmiwinks, and when you say retard you mean subtract from the existing (current) value, right?

[Mark]

Originally posted by zemun2
Mark,
You are talking about Ch.09 "ignition timing offset" in Lemmiwinks, and when you say retard you mean subtract from the existing (current) value, right?

exactly, you will loss some power but it shouldn't acticate the knock sensors as much.

[bhvrdr]

Originally posted by zemun2
Mike,
What's the normal btdc value?
What block do I need to monotor to get lambda value, and whats normal range?
What's the safe limit for timing retard, and why diff values on all 4 cyl?

Thanks
D,

btdc's are all over the place and constantly changing based on your engines needs. I may be wrong it this but i try not to pay attention to them as much as retard. Retard it the key and as i look at your log, the only time you have little spikes is when you are shifting gears or letting off throttle. This happens. Under WOT and higher rpms you seem to be zeroed out or no higher than 3. Ideally you would like to see zero timing retard, but that's probably not going to happen so anything less than 3 or 4 is probably nothing to be worried about. Channel 1 should get you to lambda. cheers! mike

[jt1]

that's weird that my maf's reading was only around 145-155 g/s at WOT. no help with maf cleaning or even boosted up more by sps3. Is there something wrong, any idea? ( I am running revo with HB3/T6 setting, stock turbo goes through the FMIC, sprike at 21.5psi. no retard, no knocking and no codes at all, a/f seems good and car runs normal too)

[Silence]

HE running a different turbo and larger injectors.

[zemun2]

Mike, Mark. Silence,
What kinda boost pressure drop are you seeing from peek till redline?
What's your peek boost vs. redline boost, and what kinda turbo setup are you running?

[Silence]

i can hold 1.5bar till redline. T28.

[Mark]

Originally posted by zemun2
Mike, Mark. Silence,
What kinda boost pressure drop are you seeing from peek till redline?
What's your peek boost vs. redline boost, and what kinda turbo setup are you running?

I am spiking at 24 psi and slowly dropping to around 15 over 5500 or so. K04-015

[zemun2]

Originally posted by Silence
i can hold 1.5bar till redline. T28.

Damn,
Are you running MBC?

[zemun2]

Originally posted by Mark
I am spiking at 24 psi and slowly dropping to around 15 over 5500 or so. K04-015

I peek 20 and redline at 10 psi, so I guess we're almost the same when it comes to press drop. If I can keep it at 18 red I'd be making much more power.
I'll try running MBC when Dave gets here to BA on 21st.

[Silence]

Originally posted by zemun2
Damn,
Are you running MBC?

yup.

[zemun2]

Originally posted by Silence
yup.

So you are always at 22 psi from the time you step on it till you red? Do you still have N75 in the system but not piped(wired but no hoses to it)?
I'm thinking about doing 18-20 psi MBC

[bhvrdr]

Originally posted by zemun2
Mike, Mark. Silence,
What kinda boost pressure drop are you seeing from peek till redline?
What's your peek boost vs. redline boost, and what kinda turbo setup are you running?

Well,
I have been experimenting with different N75 sleeves and received my Monaco N75K valve from Dahlback yesterday so i'll tell you what stock MTM software does and what i'm boosting now with the new N75K in.

Stock,
Peaks at around 3000rpm at 23psi
Holds at 20psi until 4800rpm and gradually drops off until rev limiter.

N75K (it overboosted Jet's car but I havent had a hiccup yet)
Peaks at around 3000rpm at 28-29psi,
Holds at 23psi until 4800rpm where it only drops off to about 17-19psi all the way to rev limit.

Keep in mind that Silence is running a very strong turbo that can handle the boost in the higher rpms. The K03 and K04 are tapering boost for a reason. Bye bye turbo if you hold boost like that on our little monsters. cheers! mike

[zemun2]

Originally posted by bhvrdr
Holds at 23psi until 4800rpm where it only drops off to about 17-19psi all the way to rev limit.

Thanks for the info Mike.
I'm planing on not exceeding 18 psi with MBC, you think this is gonna be to much for SK04?

D,

[bhvrdr]

Originally posted by zemun2
Thanks for the info Mike.
I'm planing on not exceeding 18 psi with MBC, you think this is gonna be to much for SK04?

D,

I dont believe there is a single person who can tell you what the Sk04 can stand up to. No one has done long term testing yet since it is new to the market. You pretty much have to roll the dice and be prepared for the worst. That being said, I might look into N75 sleeves so you can still have a nice and quick boost spike and then ease off the boost as the rpms climb. These smaller turbos run out of steam at higher rpms for a reason and while I love the idea of tapping some extra boost out of them, I would be cautious about holding 1.3bar all the way to redline. You never know though. I have heard of MBCs tapering boost as well even though they are supposed to hold it better. One of the more reliable ways to hold onto boost is an EBC, but they are a bit of a chore to get dialed in and installed.

You may want to give Anthony a call and see if he'll send you some N75 sleeves. They are dirt cheap and easy to install so if you dont like the results, you're only out $20 bucks and you can move onto boost controlling. Just a suggestion. If you go the MBC route, let me know. I'd love to hear about the results as I have thought about doing it myself. Cheers! Mike

[Mark]

how are you guys measuring your boost? just wondering if your're using the cars stock sensors or seperate gauges.

I'm reading from an analog AWE VDO gauge.

[bhvrdr]

Originally posted by Mark
how are you guys measuring your boost? just wondering if your're using the cars stock sensors or seperate gauges.

I'm reading from an analog AWE VDO gauge.

AWE and a my last dyno runs. cheers! mike

[zemun2]

Originally posted by bhvrdr
I dont believe there is a single person who can tell you what the Sk04 can stand up to. No one has done long term testing yet since it is new to the market. You pretty much have to roll the dice and be prepared for the worst. That being said, I might look into N75 sleeves so you can still have a nice and quick boost spike and then ease off the boost as the rpms climb. These smaller turbos run out of steam at higher rpms for a reason and while I love the idea of tapping some extra boost out of them, I would be cautious about holding 1.3bar all the way to redline. You never know though. I have heard of MBCs tapering boost as well even though they are supposed to hold it better. One of the more reliable ways to hold onto boost is an EBC, but they are a bit of a chore to get dialed in and installed.

You may want to give Anthony a call and see if he'll send you some N75 sleeves. They are dirt cheap and easy to install so if you dont like the results, you're only out $20 bucks and you can move onto boost controlling. Just a suggestion. If you go the MBC route, let me know. I'd love to hear about the results as I have thought about doing it myself. Cheers! Mike

I have SPS3 so I can adjust boost with it. SK04 should be little more robust than K04.
I found this site that explains different types of MBC uses.
It's even posible to leave N75 in the system and use MBC to bleed some air before the N75 thus faking low boost causing it to open more at higher rpm's.
With this setup I want always boost 1.3 bar.

"We (well actually Volkswagen's engineers)divert some pressure away from the actuator, so that boost in the engine is actually more than the pressure at the wastegate actuator. As airflow approaches the wastegate actuator a percentage is allowed an alternate path via a boost control solenoid (the N75 in our case). The more air flowing out the solenoid and NOT to the gate, the more boost you get, remember the actuator only works from 0-10psi, once at 10psi, its wide open and your boost isn't going any higher. But, since pressure in the manifold is actually higher your peak boost is higher than 10. The dotted line is the vent exiting the N75 which is routed back into the air intake path before the turbo. (This by the way is a lot like how a bleeder valve works)"

http://www.boostvalve.com/tech/boostflow1.8.html

http://www.boostvalve.com/tech/1.8T.html