spark plugs

[hyperspeed]

hey guys i was wondering what kinda NGK spark plugs i should pick up. gunna go grab some later today.

also do u guys know how to gap them? and what the purpose is behind gapping them?

here are my engine mods if they matter:

neuspeed1.2bar chip
custom cold air intake
custom 2.5" exhaust
hks ssqv bov

[BrokenXenon]

i think u are the one who has nothing to do. LOL

[hyperspeed]

dude that was fastest response evAr

[bbaudi382]

ngk bkr6e

gap to .032, bigger gap exposes more spark for better combustion.

[hyperspeed]

where do i get them at?

[bbaudi382]

i bought mine at allperformanceparts.com for 2.05 each

[hyperspeed]

they dont have them at pepboys or something like htat?

[bbaudi382]

uhhh...maybe NAPA autoparts iirc

[hyperspeed]

wheres the nearest napa?

[bbaudi382]

i dont have one near me...thats why i used allperformanceparts.com

damn we might as well be chatting on aim

[hyperspeed]

sigh...i want them now

[BrokenXenon]

why dont you and alex talk on AIM or something.
whores!

[bbaudi382]

try www.napa.com and then store locator?

[rex_racer]

ngk bkr7e gapped at .028 =P. that's what all the chipped etc VW 1.8T guys are running, diff car same engine... 7es are one heat range cooler. umm, the bigger gap mite make a bit more power, ie tq down low, but its harder on the ignition system, but i think the stockies are gapped to .032 anyhow, but the best results thus far have been w/ .028, and that's coming from ppl who spend all day long playing w/ gap, weirdos haha.

[hyperspeed]

so.. 6e or 7e? 0.028 or 0.032?

[bbaudi382]

hmm...im running the 6es at .032 and it works good. maybe i try 7e next

[hyperspeed]

im gunna try and get to a NAPA before they close at 6. if not then ill buy em tomorrow no biggie.

ok im done. oh yeah hey alex i got 1 more mod in before bbq. i got my extra set of headrests =) tvs here i come!

[rex_racer]

Originally posted by hyperspeed
so.. 6e or 7e? 0.028 or 0.032?

they'll both work fine w/ whatever u get and whatever u gap em at. simply put, in the vw 1.8t section, if ure at stock boost then ure getting 6es gapped to .032, if ure chipped ure going for 7es gapped at .028. give em a shot for 5k miles or 10k miles. plugs are about 2 bucks a peice and the coilpacks are all right up on top so its easy to swap and test and tune .

[bbaudi382]

i think i still win this time tho

[bhvrdr]

bkr6e = stock heat range and due to copper bieng a more efficient conductor it automatically burns 40 degrees cooler than platinum so no need to step down to the 7 heat range unless running more than 75hp over stock. These plugs come gapped at .032. That is the way to go. Just double check them.
www.sparkplugs.com
Cheers! Mike

[hyperspeed]

thanks for the info mike

[bbaudi382]

those are the exact same ones i have in my car, pregapped to .032

[teutonic_blur]

Originally posted by rex_racer
ngk bkr7e gapped at .028 =P. that's what all the chipped etc VW 1.8T guys are running, diff car same engine... 7es are one heat range cooler. umm, the bigger gap mite make a bit more power, ie tq down low, but its harder on the ignition system, but i think the stockies are gapped to .032 anyhow, but the best results thus far have been w/ .028, and that's coming from ppl who spend all day long playing w/ gap, weirdos haha.

I'm one of the weirdos . The first time I installed coppers I gapped them at .032. The surging was basically gone but I could swear that revs were not climbing as quickly as with the platinums (which had been factory gapped at .027). I assumed, as you state, that .032 was asking too much from the coilpacks so I regapped at .027 and it felt MUCH better.

[imajn34]

So can someone tell me how to install these SOB's and what tools I need. TIA if not then I guess I have to break my car to figure it out.

[hyperspeed]

u need a gapper as far as i know.. its a lil metal thing that has #'s on it.

[imajn34]

Ok, I'm totally going to break my car.

[bhvrdr]

Youll figure it out pretty easily,
1. unplug each coilpack wire
2. pull STRAIGHT out on the coilpack
3. remove spark plug
4. i think you get it by now. cheers! Mike

[bbaudi382]

u need a ratchet, extension and the right hex socket. you have a gap measurer to measure the gap and an actual gapper, or u can just pound the spark plug into the gap you want too

[rex_racer]

Originally posted by teutonic_blur
I'm one of the weirdos . The first time I installed coppers I gapped them at .032. The surging was basically gone but I could swear that revs were not climbing as quickly as with the platinums (which had been factory gapped at .027). I assumed, as you state, that .032 was asking too much from the coilpacks so I regapped at .027 and it felt MUCH better.

haha hey, i love u weirdos, u get rid of all the dirty work, then u get everyone else to test and r&d it hahaha.

installing these is super super easy. just make sure u don't overtighten, cause u don't wanna strip the head, i think they call for about 20ft lbs or so of tightening force. oh and don't forget u want a spark plug socket too, i think its 5/8" or 3/8" i forgot, but u want the stocket, it has an oring thing or something in it to hold the plug while u guide it down the hole.

as for going w/ a heat range cooler, some say 50hp and u can go cooler, but hey u figure chip turboback, and or high flow cat, intake, boost controller devices, replacment hoses etc and ure almost there...

[bbaudi382]

and i have a spark plug socket if u need one jeff

and its 22 ft/lb

[hyperspeed]

im gunna chk to see if marcos has some if not then ill go buy some


i just hate waiting.

[SignatureJames]

i tried ngk and i thought they werent that good...i tried the copper bosch F7TLCR and im running neuspeed 1.4...hope that helps...

[dfresh000]

Some more info for you guys:

Cheap BKR7E's are $1.61 @ www.RockAuto.com
BKR7E's Part# 6097
BKR6E's Part# 6962

Comes in packs of 10 & shipping was pretty quick. Picked up 7E's and Gapped them at .032 Putting in my GIAC chip next week.

So i will let you know how the car feels..

[rex_racer]

Originally posted by dfresh000
Some more info for you guys:

Cheap BKR7E's are $1.61 @ www.RockAuto.com
BKR7E's Part# 6097
BKR6E's Part# 6962

Comes in packs of 10 & shipping was pretty quick. Picked up 7E's and Gapped them at .032 Putting in my GIAC chip next week.

So i will let you know how the car feels..

don't forget to try gapping at .028 like
teutonic_blur said, if the acceleration seems sluggish. .028 is what everyone has been using in the vw sector.

[invisman777]

Is there any instructions to gap the spark plugs?? How does this gap method will make a different on performance??? Also, which brand is better? NGK or DENSO?? I am planning to get a REVO software soon!! Any recommendation??

[Jeff]

I wrote this FAQ like over a year ago, help it helps...

After chipping my 03 1.8T the other day to a 1.5bar program, I noticed some problems.

1) Slight missfiring/blowouts at ~5000RPM on 4th gear
2) Slight Pinging (which leads to pre-ignition/detonation) at high boost
3) Loss of power past 5000RPM (due to the size of our K03's...as well as sparkplug gapping/etc)

So on Saturday morning, I pulled out my OEM plugs, and this is what I found:

1) Don't know about the 02's, but my 03 OEM plugs are actually "NGK"...model number BKR6QP (Defined as: B = 14mm thread diameter, K = 5/8" projected tip, R = Resistor plug, 6 = Heat Range 6, Q = 4-ground electrode, P = Platinum)
2) Sparkplug is actually UNDERGAPPED, where NGK states all their plugs that dont have a (-xx) gap number to it, they should all be factory gapped at 0.0315". My OEM plugs were gapped at 0.027"!!! (Probably lost a good 5hp from that alone)

With my many years of sparkplug tuning and fiddling, I went to a local Kragen, and purchased a COPPER plug with the same specs mentioned above: BKR6E-11. Same plug, just in a copper form, with a bigger 0.044" pregap.

I gapped the plugs from it's specs (0.027"?) to 0.032". The minute I fired up the car, the exhaust tone became a LOT deeper. So I took the car around the block, then on the fwy doing some 0-100MPH runs. The car became a LOT smoother. The powerband of the turbo will now make boost past 5000RPM, and the spoolup got a LOT quicker. The "Hesitation" at 5000RPM disappeared, and the idle became a lot smoother. Simply switching the plugs, I would say that my "Ass-Dyno" pretty much felt another 5-10hp difference in power. (will do a VAG-dyno soon.)

Now many would ask "Why use Copper when they sell Iridiums???" Well first of all, before my explanation, simply switching from platinums to standard coppers will lower your EGT temps anywhere from 30-40C Degrees!...read on:

Well, here is my explanation:

Personally, I think Platinums and Iridium plugs should be BANNED from all forced-induced cars (turbo/supercharged).

I have done sparkplug tuning for many years now (indexing/j-gapping), and I've found Platinums/Iridiums to be inferior to copper plugs in a turbocharged environment.

Platinum plugs (and Iridiums) were introduced to provide longevity (60k-100k+) to vehicles compared to copper plugs which foul after 3000-5000 miles, but they do NOT dissapate heat fast enough (which leads to pre-ignition/detonation) and do NOT provide a "better spark" like they have claimed...with their "fine-wire electrode" (which only causes problems).

Copper is one of the best conductors, but they just plain dont last. Using Platinum and Iridium plugs, the center electrode (fine-wire) thin, that under high boost, they get so hot, they will begin to "heat glow" and cause premature ignition in the combustion cycle (pre-ignition => detonation). This is a problem for all of us turbo guys. Copper on the other hand, has a much thicker center electrode, on top of that, the copper material is able to dissapate heat from the combustion chamber fast enough to keep the combustion temperatures lower.

Remember the TWO primary functions of a sparkplug:
1) To efficiently ignite the A/F mixture without missfires (gap..etc)
2) To pull heat from the combustion chamber into the head, where the cooling system should dissapate that heat. (Heat Range)

With those 2 in mind, coppers will work much better in these environments. For those thinking: "What If I just simple use a colder Platinum plug?" Well, for the kind of boost our A4's make w/ the Krispy-Kreme K03's (1.2 bar..and in my case... 1.5bar), we will reach EGT's of over 900C Degrees (keeping in mind that Pre-ignition occurs at around 870C). Once those colder platinums reach preignition temperature, it will take them FOREVER to dissapate that amount of heat (with the details about the material/design I mentioned above). A platinum/Iridium plug in a colder heat range usually runs just as hot as a copper in the standard heat range when under high stress. So many people will use a Platinum/Iridum plug TWO steps colder to counter that. But using a plug that is 2 steps colder, will lead to two things:
1) More prone to carbon-fouling on "normal driving" where EGT's are kept low. (Plugs must stay above 550C Deg to burn off excess carbon deposits to "self-clean")
2) As a result, loss of horsepower.

You need a plug that is actually "hot enough" to ignite the A/F mixture as hot as possible to get the most efficient combustion, as well as burn off carbon-deposits (~550C deg), and yet cold enough to prevent pre-ignition when compression is high (< 870C Deg).

With all that said, for those interested in going copper the "feel the difference themselves", I recommend the following plugs:

NGK: BKR6E, BKR6E-11 (-11 indicates a 0.044" pregap, which should be regapped anyways)

Denso: K20R, K20R-U11 (bigger pregap)

I have personally used a colder plug, because my chip is making 1.5 of INSANE boost, and I am personally using the following:

NGK: BKR7E (Part Number #6097), they are one heat range colder than stock (~80C degrees colder than our OEM platium plugs)

Well, here's my $0.02 (maybe $0.03) about this issue, feel free to comment or correct me if you have any concerns.

Happy Boosting

-Jeff


----------------------------------------------------

If you kids need help changing them, let me know.... you can help contribute to my "BOX":

[rex_racer]

LOL, jeff u posted this over on audiworld too huh, it looks awfully familiar. after i saw that i posted it over on a few other forums and pretty soon everyone was switching to coppers hahahah. good work man thanks for all u've contributed .

[Jeff]

Originally posted by rex_racer
LOL, jeff u posted this over on audiworld too huh, it looks awfully familiar. after i saw that i posted it over on a few other forums and pretty soon everyone was switching to coppers hahahah. good work man thanks for all u've contributed .

Wow... I didnt know it was floating around other forums. I remember someone once did a search for "sparkplugs" on Yahoo, and one of the links was my same post. Kind of odd. Maybe i should start charging =P

haha j/k

Free knowledge educates the ignorant, and the less ignorance we have, the better this place will be. :)

[rex_racer]

Originally posted by Jeff
Wow... I didnt know it was floating around other forums. I remember someone once did a search for "sparkplugs" on Yahoo, and one of the links was my same post. Kind of odd. Maybe i should start charging =P

haha j/k

Free knowledge educates the ignorant, and the less ignorance we have, the better this place will be. :)

hahaha. yea its over on 20vturbo, and then i think it hit vwvortex after that, or was it before i can't remember lol, but yea, everyone loves running coppers now, runs soo much better. there were a few guys that tried it before, but they never gave such great writeups like u did for ures, props to u man.

[Toast]

sparkplugs.com is in Chino - i ordered ground from them and had the plugs in LA on the 2nd day.