Finally here are some of those dyno plots...

[Jet Jockey]

Many thanks to Horchaus in Montreal and also to Luc and Claude at L-Sport.

Conditions under which these runs were made: 94 Octane, no water misters, outside air temperature in the low to mid 80F.


This was the first run of the day. After the car was warmed up we did one pull to make sure everything was OK. This also had the effect to warm up the car further to get more real world numbers.

In this run the car was equipped with the standard OEM N 75 valve for a 2004 car. Furthermore the stock OEM rubber turbo inlet pipe was used. Temperature inside the dyno room was
87.6 F.






Now for the boost plot, peak boost was 23.09 psi.






Next was a pull done with the N 75-K valve but we left the stock OEM rubber turbo inlet pipe on the car. Now the temperature had risen to 91.1 F.






Now for the boost plot, peak boost was 28.74 psi.


[IMG] [/IMG]



Finally we proceeded to change the stock OEM rubber turbo inlet pipe by the newly modified custom stainless steel turbo inlet pipe.
Again on this pull the N 75-K valve was retained. Now before I go on to the graphs, we had a technical brain fart from the computer running the dyno. As we tried to do the pull which was followed by several others, the machine's rear mechanisism would not allow the car to accelerate normally. So the computer was shut down twice and rebooted. Needless to say the car and especially the air intake (I/Cs) got really hot and heat soaked. So we feel these numbers could have been higher. I intend to go back soon and do a more normal run with these same components on the car to get a better feel for their numbers. BTW, the temperature inside the dyno room had now climbed to 99.5 F and we saw intake air temperatures in excess of 70 C during the run!






Now for the boost plot, peak boost was 29.12 psi.





In conclusion which may not be easily seen on these graphs is that the custom pipe will give you more torque, Hp and boost sooner in you RPM range. In other words the engine response time is faster and better. The N75-K valve is definitely more aggressive and will take the MTM Stage 3, 1.35 bar chip (20 psi) up to 29.90 psi (seen on one run) and stabilise it between 25 psi at 3300 RPM down to 15 psi around 6000 RPM. I'm not sure if I want to keep this valve on the car and risk burning up the K04. I will talk to MTM in Germany and get an opinion from them. I decide at this time to keep it on the car while we do a shake down of the inlet pipe for a couple of weeks. Maybe the software and N 75-K valve have to adapt to each other. In the mean time I will take it easy, unless I race the car again... in two weeks.

[A4 - Oh Snap]

very very nice. Its nice to see how hard you worked to get us all this data. It is very much appreciated!

[zemun2]

Those are nice numbers but 29 psi might be a bit too much for K04

[G_A4]

wow 29 psi. awesome numbers. can the K04 handle that much?
this is excellent information, thanks again jet for sharing.

[Jet Jockey]

Originally posted by zemun2
Those are nice numbers but 29 psi might be a bit too much for K04

Yes it might be. I'll see what MTM says. But talking to Luc at L-Sport, he seems to say it is just peaking and coming back down below 25 psi and that may be well be in the safe zone.

[Silence]

29psi? Can you say bye bye k04? Good numbers nonetheless, although I would like to see a smoother power curve. Thanks for sharing with us.

[initiala4]

Holly batman! 29psi.......!!!

[David@EuroCode]

Originally posted by Jet Jockey
[/B]

Very impressive indeed the second dyno is my favorite as it’s the smoothest in my opinion based on the power delivery and the boost behavior. The last run with the inlet pipe modified is the highest as far as max HP & TQ are concerned but by no means an improvement in the power deliver IMHO. The car seems to be running healthy and making good power you have a well balanced vehicle as long as you don’t expect it to make this power consistently at those boost levels. I would recommend running the car back to back for 3-4 runs to see exactly how much would be lost so you have a better idea of what the car is capable of constantly if you have already done so great please share.

Also are these numbers at the hub of the actual wheel of the car? If at the hub how much do you feel would be lost to the actual wheel on a dyno with rollers?

Cheers,

David Sarabi

[bLuEjEaN]

where can I get a turbo inlet pipe? and how hard is it to install? I currently use the n75J valve, is that the same as your 'K' ?

[zemun2]

Originally posted by David@EuroCode
Very impressive indeed the second dyno is my favorite as it’s the smoothest in my opinion based on the power delivery and the boost behavior. The last run with the inlet pipe modified is the highest as far as max HP & TQ are concerned but by no means an improvement in the power deliver IMHO. The car seems to be running healthy and making good power you have a well balanced vehicle as long as you don’t expect it to make this power consistently at those boost levels. I would recommend running the car back to back for 3-4 runs to see exactly how much would be lost so you have a better idea of what the car is capable of constantly if you have already done so great please share.

Also are these numbers at the hub of the actual wheel of the car? If at the hub how much do you feel would be lost to the actual wheel on a dyno with rollers?

Cheers,

David Sarabi

Dave YGM, the guy on that thread had a question on SPS1 and SPS2

D,

[Paul_858]

29psi spikes = run for your lives.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Jet Jockey
Many thanks to Horchaus in Montreal and also to Luc and Claude at L-Sport.

Conditions under which these runs were made: 94 Octane, no water misters, outside air temperature in the low to mid 80F.


This was the first run of the day. After the car was warmed up we did one pull to make sure everything was OK. This also had the effect to warm up the car further to get more real world numbers.

In this run the car was equipped with the standard OEM N 75 valve for a 2004 car. Furthermore the stock OEM rubber turbo inlet pipe was used. Temperature inside the dyno room was
87.6 F.






Now for the boost plot, peak boost was 23.09 psi.






Next was a pull done with the N 75-K valve but we left the stock OEM rubber turbo inlet pipe on the car. Now the temperature had risen to 91.1 F.






Now for the boost plot, peak boost was 28.74 psi.


[IMG] [/IMG]



Finally we proceeded to change the stock OEM rubber turbo inlet pipe by the newly modified custom stainless steel turbo inlet pipe.
Again on this pull the N 75-K valve was retained. Now before I go on to the graphs, we had a technical brain fart from the computer running the dyno. As we tried to do the pull which was followed by several others, the machine's rear mechanisism would not allow the car to accelerate normally. So the computer was shut down twice and rebooted. Needless to say the car and especially the air intake (I/Cs) got really hot and heat soaked. So we feel these numbers could have been higher. I intend to go back soon and do a more normal run with these same components on the car to get a better feel for their numbers. BTW, the temperature inside the dyno room had now climbed to 99.5 F and we saw intake air temperatures in excess of 70 C during the run!






Now for the boost plot, peak boost was 29.12 psi.





In conclusion which may not be easily seen on these graphs is that the custom pipe will give you more torque, Hp and boost sooner in you RPM range. In other words the engine response time is faster and better. The N75-K valve is definitely more aggressive and will take the MTM Stage 3, 1.35 bar chip (20 psi) up to 29.90 psi (seen on one run) and stabilise it between 25 psi at 3300 RPM down to 15 psi around 6000 RPM. I'm not sure if I want to keep this valve on the car and risk burning up the K04. I will talk to MTM in Germany and get an opinion from them. I decide at this time to keep it on the car while we do a shake down of the inlet pipe for a couple of weeks. Maybe the software and N 75-K valve have to adapt to each other. In the mean time I will take it easy, unless I race the car again... in two weeks.

VERY nice numbers. Now I would like to see what the SK04 and E05 (both which "should" have more potential than the K04) can make with some good tuning. Good job man!

[pdxa4]

wow, 29psi is serious boost...I'd be more comfortable with 25psi...

[Elberoth]

Although those plots may look nice, without a A/F curve you don't really know what is going on with the car.

AFR and EGTs may as well sky rocketed and that may lead to some SERIOUS engine damage (what happend to my friend's, MTM Stage 3 equipped, brand new Audi TT).

So just to be safe, I would recommend dynoing the car on a LOAD dyno and getting the vital AFR and EGT readings.

BTW - any pics of that inlet pipe ?

[HighPSI]

FWIW, my buddy uses a n75j valve on his tt with the k04 and peaks at 26psi...may be worth trying if your lookin to get a little "safer"

[teknik]

Originally posted by Elberoth
Although those plots may look nice, without a A/F curve you don't really know what is going on with the car.

AFR and EGTs may as well sky rocketed and that may lead to some SERIOUS engine damage (what happend to my friend's, MTM Stage 3 equipped, brand new Audi TT).

So just to be safe, I would recommend dynoing the car on a LOAD dyno and getting the vital AFR and EGT readings.

BTW - any pics of that inlet pipe ?

yeah what he said....

whats the air fuel look like when the boost spike hits?


1.8ts seem to go real lean when the boost first hits...

[Jet Jockey]

Originally posted by David@EuroCode
Very impressive indeed the second dyno is my favorite as it’s the smoothest in my opinion based on the power delivery and the boost behavior. The last run with the inlet pipe modified is the highest as far as max HP & TQ are concerned but by no means an improvement in the power deliver IMHO. The car seems to be running healthy and making good power you have a well balanced vehicle as long as you don’t expect it to make this power consistently at those boost levels. I would recommend running the car back to back for 3-4 runs to see exactly how much would be lost so you have a better idea of what the car is capable of constantly if you have already done so great please share.

Also are these numbers at the hub of the actual wheel of the car? If at the hub how much do you feel would be lost to the actual wheel on a dyno with rollers?

Cheers,

David Sarabi

Thanks David,

Believe me we did a lot of back to back runs and the Hp and Torque levels are very similar +/- 5 Hp/torque at the most when heat soaked.

The last run which consisted of the custom inlet pipe and N 75-K valve was by far the run under the worst conditions and we ran out of time to let the car cool down to where I think it would have been in a more normal temperature range, so I see this run as not really been a good run. I will go back to do a run with the same components under better conditions. We must have had at least 5 aborted runs before we got that one run in. The dyno room's temperature of 101 F says it all. Only after opening the doors did we get it down to 99.5F before that last run. The two I/Cs were heavily heat soaked with intake temperature above 70 C in that run as seen on the VAG-COM.

The custom inlet pipe as proven to be well worth the effort. I have all the digital data printed out at home. It shows that the pipe with and without the N 75-K valve provides better, smoother and faster engine acceleration. Boost, torque and HP come in ealier in the runs. It also shows that with less boost it produces more Hp and torque. As an example (fictious) let say that with the stock pipe at 3000 RPM I get 15.0 psi, 150 Hp and 200 ft/lbs of torque under the same conditions with the custom pipe these same figures would be produced perhaps at 200 RPM lower or at 2800 RPM.

As for the dyno types it seems everyone as their opinions and I'm not an expert so it would not be fair for me to engage in that debate.

I did log all the runs on the VAG-COM but could not retrieve the info last night and I hope they are still in the computer somewhere. In the next few day, I will try to access them.

Mike

[Jet Jockey]

Originally posted by Elberoth
Although those plots may look nice, without a A/F curve you don't really know what is going on with the car.

AFR and EGTs may as well sky rocketed and that may lead to some SERIOUS engine damage (what happend to my friend's, MTM Stage 3 equipped, brand new Audi TT).

So just to be safe, I would recommend dynoing the car on a LOAD dyno and getting the vital AFR and EGT readings.

BTW - any pics of that inlet pipe ?

Like I just said above to David on the dyno thing, everyone as their opinions. The HUB dyno can put more load on the car than you think. When we had those 5 aborted runs, the dyno's computer was having brain farts. It was putting so much force (torque) on the rear wheels that the car was being actually braked by the dyno. It as a lot more torque available to it then your car will ever have.

On your AFR and EGT readings, I did log with a VAG-COM the lambda values, the timing and I believe the MAF (mg/sec) but I forgot to get an EGT log. Hopefully I will be able to retrieve those logs. What I recall seeing on the Lambda scale leads me to believe if anything the car was running on the rich side with all figures in the negative range. On the MAF side it went all the way up into the 180s. On the timing, I'm sure under these conditions (heat) it was been pulled back. I saw the scale between 5 to 10 with a few moments at 12 and even above 15 but settled right back down between 7 and 10 IIRC. Hope I can get access to those log file somehow.

[Jet Jockey]

Originally posted by HighPSI
FWIW, my buddy uses a n75j valve on his tt with the k04 and peaks at 26psi...may be worth trying if your lookin to get a little "safer"

Thanks for the info. This may be an option for me.

[Elberoth]

Originally posted by Jet Jockey
It was putting so much force (torque) on the rear wheels that the car was being actually braked by the dyno. It as a lot more torque available to it then your car will ever have.

The torque you are talking about in nowhere near the forces that are generated by a LOAD dyno. Load dynos use special electrical engines for braking (those are HUGE) - not only relay on the sole mass of the rollers as inertial dynos do.

I hope that MTM is right this time and you will not be a part of the horror stories that a friend of mine went through with his MTM equipped Audi TT.

IMO the B6 ECU's are more idiot proof to strat with, since they relay on lambda readings all the way from part throttle up to the WOT.

[bhvrdr]

Originally posted by Elberoth
The torque you are talking about in nowhere near the forces that are generated by a LOAD dyno. Load dynos use special electrical engines for braking (those are HUGE) - not only relay on the sole mass of the rollers as inertial dynos do.

I hope that MTM is right this time and you will not be a part of the horror stories that a friend of mine went through with his MTM equipped Audi TT.

IMO the B6 ECU's are more idiot proof to strat with, since they relay on lambda readings all the way from part throttle up to the WOT.

Jet Jockey and I have both taken extensive data logs on lambda and g/s. I, myself logged all my dyno pulls plus the entire 4 hour trip to the shop reaching at several points during the trip 140mph speeds at over 6000rpms (this was in the middle of the state in alligator alley). Lambda readings were always between -5 and +5 with most readings between 0 and 3. This represents some awesome readings that many other tuners have been surprised by. cheers! Mike

[David@EuroCode]

Originally posted by Jet Jockey
Thanks David,

Believe me we did a lot of back to back runs and the Hp and Torque levels are very similar +/- 5 Hp/torque at the most when heat soaked.

The last run which consisted of the custom inlet pipe and N 75-K valve was by far the run under the worst conditions and we ran out of time to let the car cool down to where I think it would have been in a more normal temperature range, so I see this run as not really been a good run. I will go back to do a run with the same components under better conditions. We must have had at least 5 aborted runs before we got that one run in. The dyno room's temperature of 101 F says it all. Only after opening the doors did we get it down to 99.5F before that last run. The two I/Cs were heavily heat soaked with intake temperature above 70 C in that run as seen on the VAG-COM.

The custom inlet pipe as proven to be well worth the effort. I have all the digital data printed out at home. It shows that the pipe with and without the N 75-K valve provides better, smoother and faster engine acceleration. Boost, torque and HP come in ealier in the runs. It also shows that with less boost it produces more Hp and torque. As an example (fictious) let say that with the stock pipe at 3000 RPM I get 15.0 psi, 150 Hp and 200 ft/lbs of torque under the same conditions with the custom pipe these same figures would be produced perhaps at 200 RPM lower or at 2800 RPM.

As for the dyno types it seems everyone as their opinions and I'm not an expert so it would not be fair for me to engage in that debate.

I did log all the runs on the VAG-COM but could not retrieve the info last night and I hope they are still in the computer somewhere. In the next few day, I will try to access them.

Mike

Ok

But back to my question are these numbers on the dyno plots the actual wheel or hub numbers because if they are at the hub there is hp & tq to be lost when the wheels go on that is all I'm getting at. Hub dyno numbers should not be considered wheel hp numbers and I feel you should disclose this because someone that uses an actual wheel dyno may feel they are getting low numbers when in fact your numbers are inflated as the loss of hp & tq associated with wheels and tire temperature are not taken in to account. Believe me I'm not looking for a debate just a straight forward answer wheel or hub.

[David@EuroCode]

Originally posted by Jet Jockey
I saw the scale between 5 to 10 with a few moments at 12 and even above 15 but settled right back down between 7 and 10 IIRC. Hope I can get access to those log file somehow. [/B]

5-12 I guess you like living in the danger zone may the force be with you.


IMHO between 3-5 in all 4 cyl is acceptable anything above that you are either out of efficiency range of the turbo or are running too much timing or simply not enough fuel.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by David@EuroCode
Ok

But back to my question are these numbers on the dyno plots the actual wheel or hub numbers because if they are at the hub there is hp & tq to be lost when the wheels go on that is all I'm getting at. Hub dyno numbers should not be considered wheel hp numbers and I feel you should disclose this because someone that uses an actual wheel dyno may feel they are getting low numbers when in fact your numbers are inflated as the loss of hp & tq associated with wheels and tire temperature are not taken in to account. Believe me I'm not looking for a debate just a straight forward answer wheel or hub.

Why da F*CK does it matter "wheel" or "hub"??? Who cares if he lost/gained HP because it's NOT on the "MAHA"? You are too obsessed with your "Dyno Queen" philosophy, yet I havnt heard ONE success story of you and your customers' cars OFF the MAHA dyno. I think you know WTF I'm talking about.

These numbers are impressive numbers, but you always seem pretty upset that another tuner did this and not "Eurocode" (Hell, I dont even think you are a "TUNER"). SHIT man...just give the guy some CREDIT. I think he spent enough money, and enough credit should be given to him for all his efforts. You come onto EVERY "dyno related" post...and post your negative shit.

What's with you and "Dyno's" anyway? I think you are headed AMS's path pretty soon... I think when someone has to resort to "SELLING DYNO TIME" to make an income, it is pretty pathetic.

Peace out my friend! :)

[DLSJ5]

Originally posted by Jeff
Why da F*CK does it matter "wheel" or "hub"??? Who cares if he lost/gained HP because it's NOT on the "MAHA"? You are too obsessed with your "Dyno Queen" philosophy, yet I havnt heard ONE success story of you and your customers' cars OFF the MAHA dyno. I think you know WTF I'm talking about.

These numbers are impressive numbers, but you always seem pretty upset that another tuner did this and not "Eurocode" (Hell, I dont even think you are a "TUNER"). SHIT man...just give the guy some CREDIT. I think he spent enough money, and enough credit should be given to him for all his efforts. You come onto EVERY "dyno related" post...and post your negative shit.

What's with you and "Dyno's" anyway? I think you are headed AMS's path pretty soon... I think when someone has to resort to "SELLING DYNO TIME" to make an income, it is pretty pathetic.

Peace out my friend! :)

Jeff,

WTF? They're having a civil conversation why do you have to intrude in such a mean spiritied way? I think David's just asking questions, those numbers are high, I don't doubt Mike's honestly, David is just asking questions, that's WTF this forum is for, come on Bro engage in a constructive way, as far as I know David has offered free dyno sessions to a few of his customers, and dyno tuning is really the best way to tune your car anyway. Chill out Bro. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the next GTG I gotta put a face to this big mouth of yours.

Drew

[Jeff]

Originally posted by DLSJ5
Jeff,

WTF? They're having a civil conversation why do you have to intrude in such a mean spiritied way? I think David's just asking questions, those numbers are high, I don't doubt Mike's honestly, David is just asking questions, that's WTF this forum is for, come on Bro engage in a constructive way, as far as I know David has offered free dyno sessions to a few of his customers, and dyno tuning is really the best way to tune your car anyway. Chill out Bro. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the next GTG I gotta put a face to this big mouth of yours.

Drew

No problem Drew. First round of beers is on me bro. :)

-Jeff

[DLSJ5]

Originally posted by Jeff
No problem Drew. First round of beers is on me bro. :)

-Jeff

Sounds good Jeff, but aren't the GTG's always at Krispy Kreme or at a random Parking lot somewhere? I think it'll be the first round of Glazed Donuts is on you. What's up with your clutch BTW?

[Jeff]

Originally posted by DLSJ5
Sounds good Jeff, but aren't the GTG's always at Krispy Kreme or at a random Parking lot somewhere? I think it'll be the first round of Glazed Donuts is on you. What's up with your clutch BTW?

Yea... G2G's always happen in the weirdest places, which is why I hardly go. (I'm still traumatized from lastyear's So Cal + No Cal meet that happened at some farm in SLO...car shows SUCK). I'll see if I can make it out there tomorrow assuming that my car is in one piece. :)

What about the clutch? I'm on my 4th one. :) The SPEC is the best one I had so far.

-Jeff

[DLSJ5]

Originally posted by Jeff
Yea... G2G's always happen in the weirdest places, which is why I hardly go. (I'm still traumatized from lastyear's So Cal + No Cal meet that happened at some farm in SLO...car shows SUCK). I'll see if I can make it out there tomorrow assuming that my car is in one piece. :)

What about the clutch? I'm on my 4th one. :) The SPEC is the best one I had so far.

-Jeff

4th!!! wow! Which stage Spec?

[A4NCAR]

Originally posted by David@EuroCode
Ok

But back to my question are these numbers on the dyno plots the actual wheel or hub numbers because if they are at the hub there is hp & tq to be lost when the wheels go on that is all I'm getting at. Hub dyno numbers should not be considered wheel hp numbers and I feel you should disclose this because someone that uses an actual wheel dyno may feel they are getting low numbers when in fact your numbers are inflated as the loss of hp & tq associated with wheels and tire temperature are not taken in to account. Believe me I'm not looking for a debate just a straight forward answer wheel or hub.

Hub IIRC.

[foofighter]

Originally posted by Jeff
Yea... G2G's always happen in the weirdest places, which is why I hardly go. (I'm still traumatized from lastyear's So Cal + No Cal meet that happened at some farm in SLO...car shows SUCK). I'll see if I can make it out there tomorrow assuming that my car is in one piece. :)

What about the clutch? I'm on my 4th one. :) The SPEC is the best one I had so far.

-Jeff

i had one at BJ's and that was fun...u hung out a bit and then went in to eat and drink...loitering in the parking lot gets old sometimes.

[Saturnine]

Here you go sir

Originally posted by Elberoth

BTW - any pics of that inlet pipe ?

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Saturnine
Here you go sir

John... a bong? If not, it'll make a pretty cool one :)

[Jet Jockey]

Originally posted by David@EuroCode
Ok

But back to my question are these numbers on the dyno plots the actual wheel or hub numbers because if they are at the hub there is hp & tq to be lost when the wheels go on that is all I'm getting at. Hub dyno numbers should not be considered wheel hp numbers and I feel you should disclose this because someone that uses an actual wheel dyno may feel they are getting low numbers when in fact your numbers are inflated as the loss of hp & tq associated with wheels and tire temperature are not taken in to account. Believe me I'm not looking for a debate just a straight forward answer wheel or hub.

OK David I will try to find out if the readings are at the wheels or the hub. I'm pretty sure they told me it was at the wheels.

[Jet Jockey]

Originally posted by Jeff
Why da F*CK does it matter "wheel" or "hub"??? Who cares if he lost/gained HP because it's NOT on the "MAHA"? You are too obsessed with your "Dyno Queen" philosophy, yet I havnt heard ONE success story of you and your customers' cars OFF the MAHA dyno. I think you know WTF I'm talking about.

These numbers are impressive numbers, but you always seem pretty upset that another tuner did this and not "Eurocode" (Hell, I dont even think you are a "TUNER"). SHIT man...just give the guy some CREDIT. I think he spent enough money, and enough credit should be given to him for all his efforts. You come onto EVERY "dyno related" post...and post your negative shit.

What's with you and "Dyno's" anyway? I think you are headed AMS's path pretty soon... I think when someone has to resort to "SELLING DYNO TIME" to make an income, it is pretty pathetic.

Peace out my friend! :)

Thanks Jeff,

In a way you are right, some people are very touchy about dyno runs and I don't know why (especially here on Audizine). In any case I don't care, I know how the car pulls on the road and I can tell you it is a lot better than a stock version or even what my 2002 with the MTM Stage 2 did. It's a new ball game.

I don't care if you use a Dynojet, a Dynapack a Mustang or a MAHA, if you do a base line with one type and you go back to the same dyno and complete some more runs after your mods you will see the gains on your car on that dyno. The peak values may be different on the different dynos with the same car and who cares? It is the gains that are important. 215 Hp on the Dynapack could be 200 Hp on the MAHA or 225 Hp on a Dynojet but I'm sure the gains on each dyno would be the same between the baseline runs and then the runs after the mods are installed.

Mike

[neoprufrok]

Originally posted by Jet Jockey
Thanks Jeff,

In a way you are right, some people are very touchy about dyno runs and I don't know why (especially here on Audizine). In any case I don't care, I know how the car pulls on the road and I can tell you it is a lot better than a stock version or even what my 2002 with the MTM Stage 2 did. It's a new ball game.

I don't care if you use a Dynojet, a Dynapack a Mustang or a MAHA, if you do a base line with one type and you go back to the same dyno and complete some more runs after your mods you will see the gains on your car on that dyno. The peak values may be different on the different dynos with the same car and who cares? It is the gains that are important. 215 Hp on the Dynapack could be 200 Hp on the MAHA or 225 Hp on a Dynojet but I'm sure the gains on each dyno would be the same between the baseline runs and then the runs after the mods are installed.

Mike

Yeah, I'm not sure where this touchiness with dyno numbers stems from here. I wonder how much of it has to do with them feeling insecure with their own mods?

Like you've said Mike, it doesn't matter what instrument is used to measure, as long as you have the "delta" you should be able to get good ideas as to how your car performs with a given mod.

[DLSJ5]

Originally posted by neoprufrok
Yeah, I'm not sure where this touchiness with dyno numbers stems from here. I wonder how much of it has to do with them feeling insecure with their own mods?

Like you've said Mike, it doesn't matter what instrument is used to measure, as long as you have the "delta" you should be able to get good ideas as to how your car performs with a given mod.

When it comes to dyno's you're always going to get doubters & questions about how the runs were conducted etc. I can see why people would doubt those kind of #'s with just a K04 and a few goodies, as you have expressed the same doubts in the past Rich. Who are you referring to being insecure about their mods? I think asking any question about a dyno run is fine, people are very touchy when anyone questions their dyno runs, including myself. Running a K04 at 29psi is taking a risk, but I'm pushing 1.7 bar on my K03, and that's risky too all part of the quest for power, still doesn't take away that it's really pushing it.

Personally I take Jet's #'s at face value, but I think just because someone is asking questions doesn't mean they're insecure, I mean 90Hp or is it higher? From a K04 is alot, it's a tough sell and I know they would be lower on a MAHA, just the way it is. That takes nothing away from Mike's hardwork, dyno numbers and success.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by DLSJ5
That takes nothing away from Mike's hardwork, dyno numbers and success.

That's the whole point I'm trying to get at. Mike made some impressive numbers that even a negative/cocky/grouchy bastard like myself would like to give him some props. I don't understand why someone would want to question the exact "details" of his dynos, when they have been consistent before and after the changes, and indirectly "doubt" those numbers.

The guy think his car hauls ass (and I'm sure he's compared it to other cars and rode in them), and that's all that matters. :)

[Jeff]

Originally posted by neoprufrok
Yeah, I'm not sure where this touchiness with dyno numbers stems from here. I wonder how much of it has to do with them feeling insecure with their own mods?

Like you've said Mike, it doesn't matter what instrument is used to measure, as long as you have the "delta" you should be able to get good ideas as to how your car performs with a given mod.

A dynomometer is merely a "tool" for tuning a car, and does NOT constitute whether a car is "fast" or "slow", though it gives you a very good idea. Mike's car can make 300whp, but if he has no suspension, brakes, or tires (or the driving skills) to handle that power, his car will be no faster than a stock K03'd car making 190whp on "tweek". People who brag and rant about "dynos" all day long should NOT be considered a "tuner".

Though a word of advice Mike, chill out on the boost bro! I'm already on my second K03 (i was pushing 1.6bar+ on 95 octane daily driven before).

=)

Jeff

[madrussian]

i use the best dyno money can buy...












butt dyno and my shit still feels slow.