B5 S4 vs. B6 S4.....

**Jon_Rhea** · 07-30-2004 04:54 PM

Ok, a few questions. First what is the moddability of the two cars?? Which one is easier to mod and less expensive. What is the max hp you could get out of a B5 S4?? What is the best year B5 to by for modding purposes?? Any help would be great. TIA!!

**hadokenny** · 07-30-2004 05:34 PM

B5 S4 is easier to mod. No question about it. All year B5s are pretty much the same except for minor changes. Moddability wise they are about the same.

**OverSpun** · 07-30-2004 05:34 PM

i think a few of those questions have very obvious answers...

**DRA4** · 07-30-2004 05:57 PM

Well the B5 S4 has much more options cause of the turbos, but the B6 with an exhaust, chip, is damn fast too.

**DefiantS4** · 07-30-2004 05:59 PM

I've had my B5 for not even 48 hours now, but I'll take a stab here using what I know about cars in general...

"First what is the moddability of the two cars?? Which one is easier to mod and less expensive."
The B5 has been around for a while, so the aftermarket will have more for it. You can get a used B5 for a little less than 2/3 the value of a new B6. A turbocharged V6 will generally give you a lot more to play with than a NA V8. I wonder if it's even possible to shoehorn a forced induction system into the B6's engine bay.

"What is the max hp you could get out of a B5 S4??"
How much money you got?

That's always what it comes down to, with any car.

**Jon_Rhea** · 07-30-2004 06:14 PM

Originally posted by OverSpun
i think a few of those questions have very obvious answers...

yeah, but I couldn't think of any others

**DRA4** · 07-30-2004 06:20 PM

Btw, you want a fast S4, they selling an 11 seconds one, right here in audizine.

**Jon_Rhea** · 07-30-2004 07:07 PM

I wish I had the $$ to buy it, right now just planning ahead for the future

**twinsnailsS4** · 07-31-2004 12:53 AM

Here is an article that compares B5 S4's with basic mods (stock, Stage 1 & Stage 2+) with a B6 S4. The edge definitely went to the B5 but that is because you can get power from it so much easier than the naturally aspirated B6. Of course, you don't have to worry about your turbos blowing on a B6

http://www.audiworld.com/news/04/b6shootout/

**SuperbSantorin4** · 07-31-2004 12:53 AM

2 turbos vs no turbos=game over.

**twinsnailsS4** · 07-31-2004 01:07 AM

Originally posted by SuperbSantorin4
2 turbos vs no turbos=game over.

Wait a second, are you saying that the statement "there is no replacement for displacement" is fallacious

**biturbo hero** · 08-01-2004 12:52 AM

the use of forced induction raises volumetric efficancy to over 100%. there is a replacement for displacement......

**Imperial** · 08-02-2004 11:01 AM

Originally posted by SuperbSantorin4
2 turbos vs no turbos=game over.

2 pistons are no replacement for 2 turbos

**JHousyS4** · 08-06-2004 09:38 PM

straight up the b5 is cooler...the b6 looks like a girly car.

**dramaticstatic** · 08-06-2004 09:54 PM

B6 is better unmodded, B5 is better modded.
And with cash taken into consideration for the price of a B6 you could basically approach an RS4 conversion if you got a B5 at a good price. Or you could just buy a modded S4.
The best years are the ones with the newer style badges(the ones with S4 clearly written), that's the easiest way to tell. These are the 2001.5 and the 2002.
There were a few strange cars made near the change over, I used to own one with all the old badges but all the new internals but I recently wrecked it, but the new badge rule works pretty well.

Out of both cars with the top of the line mods the B5 will always win because of the turbos.

**OOOO** · 08-10-2004 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Imperial
2 pistons are no replacement for 2 turbos

but 2 more pistons + 2 turbos =

**jeremy@matrix** · 08-18-2004 07:39 PM

The B6 S4 is a damn fine car out of the box. The brakes are better than a stock B5's by a long shot, the suspension is better, seats are better, exhaust tone is better, etc.....but yes, if you were to take a used B5 S4, big turbos, STaSIS brakes/susp, etc, it would a faster car than a B6, not doubt.

It all depends what you're looking for in a sports sedan. They're both luxurious, great looking, awesome sports sedans. But since the B5s are more cost effective right now, they can probably be built into a monster of a car for less money.

My $0.03.

Best,
Jeremy

**excursion** · 08-19-2004 05:53 AM

B6 hannds down, Miltek exhaust (inc sports cats) and a remap and you're over 400bhp.

However I think it's quite a bland car in comaprison to the B5, particularly the interior which is a big let down.

**jeremy@matrix** · 08-19-2004 08:24 AM

Originally posted by excursion
B6 hannds down, Miltek exhaust (inc sports cats) and a remap and you're over 400bhp.

However I think it's quite a bland car in comaprison to the B5, particularly the interior which is a big let down.

Excursion,

We have a B6 S4 on our Mustang AWD dyno as I type with the full Milltek downpipes/cats, cat-back, remap, etc......400bhp is a lot and a big jump from stock. Have you seen dyno sheets from S4s on that side of the pond making 400bhp with these mods?

Best,
Jeremy

**excursion** · 08-19-2004 08:37 AM

I only have a torque graph to hand:

you should be able to work out the BHP from that

The power depends on mileage, initial conversions on sub 10,000 mile cars are seeing 390-398 whereas the 20k+ cars are getting the real 400+ If you are interested I can maybe get some dyno graphs for you?

Mark

**jeremy@matrix** · 08-19-2004 08:41 AM

Originally posted by excursion
I only have a torque graph to hand:

you should be able to work out the BHP from that

The power depends on mileage, initial conversions on sub 10,000 mile cars are seeing 390-398 whereas the 20k+ cars are getting the real 400+ If you are interested I can maybe get some dyno graphs for you?

Mark

Hey Mark,

Thx for the info.

What dyno is this?
What are the baseline numbers for the car stock?

I'd love to see more info if you have it.

Cheers!
Jeremy

**excursion** · 08-19-2004 08:57 AM

Originally posted by jeremy@matrix
Hey Mark,

Thx for the info.

What dyno is this?
What are the baseline numbers for the car stock?

I'd love to see more info if you have it.

Cheers!
Jeremy

Jeremy, This is AmD's dyno here in the UK, sorry mate but I have no idea what model it is. The stock car here puts down between 345-350bhp on the dyno. I have no idea on torque.

Originally AmD were claiming figures of 420 but have since changed the website to '400' after owners were having the cars dyno'd independantly and finding cars short of AmD's claims. However as cars are getting more mileage on them the power is starting to rise to near AmD's original claims. The highest recorded stage 3 here is 415BHP.

Sorry I can't help you a whole lot with info, I'm simply passing on what is happening on the UK forums

Regards,
Mark

**cj-S4** · 08-19-2004 08:58 AM

Yes I would like to see the beginning numbers too. Not to sound sceptical, but stock is 344HP at the crank correct? So that minus around 30% for drivetain loss is around,, 241 at the wheels. So you are saying that with highflow cats, a cat back, an ECU remap,, is adding around 130 HP. I just don't see that.

With Long Tube headers, high flow cats, Titanium Cat back, intake system and ECU remap, my Z06 gained around 50 WHP.

Jermey,
What is your car making with these similar mods?

**jeremy@matrix** · 08-19-2004 09:15 AM

Originally posted by excursion
Jeremy, This is AmD's dyno here in the UK, sorry mate but I have no idea what model it is. The stock car here puts down between 345-350bhp on the dyno. I have no idea on torque.

Originally AmD were claiming figures of 420 but have since changed the website to '400' after owners were having the cars dyno'd independantly and finding cars short of AmD's claims. However as cars are getting more mileage on them the power is starting to rise to near AmD's original claims. The highest recorded stage 3 here is 415BHP.

Sorry I can't help you a whole lot with info, I'm simply passing on what is happening on the UK forums

Regards,
Mark

Hey Mark,

Thx for passing on the info.

No worries on the dyno model.

You said a stock car does 345ish BHP on the dyno. But, what WHP are they doing stock and what WHP are they doing with the mods? 30% drivetrain loss should be close....

Chris,

As far as our numbers yet with the mods, I cannot say as we are still in the R&D phase.

But I can pass on that a stock B6 S4 on our Mustang AWD dyno(same model as GIAC's and AWE's dynos) does about 255whp and 239wtq. So, an estimated 26% drivetrain loss on our dyno.

**excursion** · 08-19-2004 09:15 AM

Chris, the above are flywheel numbers, not wheel HP

**jeremy@matrix** · 08-19-2004 09:26 AM

Originally posted by excursion
Chris, the above are flywheel numbers, not wheel HP

So, no WHP numbers?

I can say that it seems that from our dyno comparisons the Milltek cats/DP's and cat-back don't make the claimed 30whp and 40wtq.

**quicksilver_S** · 08-20-2004 07:48 AM

On the B6 vs B5 note, Which engine bay would create more heat? the v6 biturbo or the 4.2 v8? Might be a rediculous question but I would like to know what you guys think because my biturbo runs pretty hot.

**excursion** · 08-20-2004 08:52 AM

Turbo cars usually run hotter than their naturally aspirated counterparts, but Jeremy can probably provide a better answer

**jeremy@matrix** · 08-20-2004 08:57 AM

Originally posted by excursion
Turbo cars usually run hotter than their naturally aspirated counterparts, but Jeremy can probably provide a better answer

Mark,

You are correct. As we do more R&D with these vehicles we will see the differences in underhood heat.

Best,
Jeremy

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