Intercooler

**Mike~p** · 07-27-2004 11:49 AM

i kno this has come up soo many times, and ill admit ive posted about it before...but i just want people who know there facts to answer on this one because to many people will belive the first thing sumone says and then go out and give that poor/good adive to others..

but my main problem is i live in sd and its freakin hot here i live at the beach so that doesnt help either....so im looking at intercoolers and i see all types that are well over a grand, then i find greddy...a respectable company who puts out quality products...and there intercooler kit is aabout have as much as the others...so i asked around and people gave me half a$$ answers like its to big and it wont help..my main question is has anyone used it or does anyone had proof it will lower my boost pressure...because i knoiw it makes sence it will becvause its size an the amount of the intercooler that would remain hidddin under the bumper but i need more than that

thanks
and i hope this made sence

**nizmosx** · 07-27-2004 11:56 AM

the greddy is a great unit, i love the way it looks compared to many other reputable manufacturers out there. however if your only running a k04 the pressure drop is too much, that intercooler is a great unit for people running larger turbos. im in the market now and dont want to spend money on an intercooler but if you plan on keeping the k04 and not going larger then i would suggest getting a smaller unit that would be more efficient like a abt one from ams. wich is what i hope to get, or a evo motorsport one. those tend to be the best units for k03 and k04 cars and require a minimum amount of cutting on rs4 and s4 bumpers. if you have the stock a4 bumper invest in a dremel as it will be your best friend. i found all this out from research and talking to steven at AMS. Steven seemed very knowledgeable about what he was saying as he told me as well as dvs that the greddy unit would be too big, Steven suggest the evo motorsport one or the one they make (ABT). he also told me he would sell me the ABT one for a grand and it normally retails for 1599 or 1499 i forget wich. so i think i will save and get the abt. hope this helps.

**skene** · 07-27-2004 12:28 PM

Intercoolers as large as the Greddy really were not made for the stock K03 or K04 as the internal volume of the IC will create a pressure loss as the overall internal volume needed to fill the intercooler channels and push them through to get to the other side and into intake manifold.

usually you want an intercooler that will give you at least about 1psi of pressure loss which would be beneficial to the smaller turbos. this is made up by providing a cooler intake charge.

blah blah blah

**Devious27t** · 07-27-2004 04:38 PM

Originally posted by skene
Intercoolers as large as the Greddy really were not made for the stock K03 or K04 as the internal volume of the IC will create a pressure loss as the overall internal volume needed to fill the intercooler channels and push them through to get to the other side and into intake manifold.

usually you want an intercooler that will give you at least about 1psi of pressure loss which would be beneficial to the smaller turbos. this is made up by providing a cooler intake charge.

blah blah blah

thank you for repeating nismosx.

**JMG** · 07-27-2004 07:20 PM

So what is a good FMIC for a stock KO3?

**Devious27t** · 07-27-2004 07:51 PM

Originally posted by JMG
So what is a good FMIC for a stock KO3?

SPP is good for a k03 or k04.... dont think they are producing them right now though... EVO and ABT are very good though they are pricey....

**Hassmeister** · 07-27-2004 07:56 PM

I placed my SPP Traditional FMIC on with the K03 and both the .08 bar and 1.0 bar and now my K04 chip and it runs just fine! What a diff with "JUST" the K03 and .08 bar - WOW!

**sighpost** · 07-27-2004 08:09 PM

I don't have any experience with ICs but this is what one website that sells turbo and turbo accessories says about intercooler theory...

This is one area where the American addage, "the bigger the better", applies. When selecting an intercooler, choose (or have made) the largest intercooler you can fit into the space you have under your hood. Here's why:
Efficiency and Size. Typically, a larger intercooler has more surface area over which the heat transfer can occur. The greater the surface area (given the same transfer medium), the greater the amount of heat transfered. As usual, better quality can make up for a smaller size. Having a better transfer medium, such as aluminum, will increase the drop in temperature. Also, surface area can increase without using a large intercooler, by using more and smaller fins. More fins, though, means less air which can fit between them. Many people report excellent results using intercoolers fabricated by Spearco. They are also capable of making custom intercoolers.
Pressure Drop and Size. Smaller intercoolers can be a flow restriction. This flow restriction can increase the pressure drop across the intercooler. This causes the turbo to compress the air to a higher pressure in order to maintain the same pressure at the intake manifold (after the intercooler pressure drop). Greater compression, even if it's done at the same compressor efficiency, will result in higher temperatures leaving the turbocharger. Ultimately, this results in a warmer air temperature and lower air density at the intake manifold.:

Taken from turbo calculator

**JMG** · 07-27-2004 08:26 PM

Originally posted by DVS18t
SPP is good for a k03 or k04.... dont think they are producing them right now though... EVO and ABT are very good though they are pricey....

Thanks. That's what I was planning on. Eric said he might have another batch if there is enough interest. Otherwise I think something new is in the works.

**Devious27t** · 07-27-2004 08:30 PM

Originally posted by sighpost
I don't have any experience with ICs but this is what one website that sells turbo and turbo accessories says about intercooler theory...

Taken from turbo calculator

i am not even gonna go over the whole thing but please dont take anything there to heart bigger is not always bigger in fact it rarely is with turbo cars.... turbos can be too big for an application, injectors can be too big.... intercoolers can be too big... you have to size things comparatively.... if your turbo can only flow 300 cfms then why would you have an intercooler that can flow 750.... that would make it difficult for the turbo to create any real charge pressure.

**Devious27t** · 07-27-2004 08:32 PM

Originally posted by sighpost
Smaller intercoolers can be a flow restriction. This flow restriction can increase the pressure drop across the intercooler. This causes the turbo to compress the air to a higher pressure in order to maintain the same pressure at the intake manifold (after the intercooler pressure drop). Greater compression, even if it's done at the same compressor efficiency, will result in higher temperatures leaving the turbocharger. Ultimately, this results in a warmer air temperature and lower air density at the intake manifold.:

though i will say that this is very much the issue with k03 running more boost and one of the reasons that heat soak is such an issue with these setups.

**sighpost** · 07-27-2004 09:41 PM

Originally posted by DVS18t
i.... if your turbo can only flow 300 cfms then why would you have an intercooler that can flow 750.... that would make it difficult for the turbo to create any real charge pressure.

I guess what they are promoting is the idea that the drop in temps makes up for the drop in pressure. Ultimatley we care about air volume not pressure. Is it just not possible for an IC to drop pressure but make up for it with a drop in temps?

**Mike~p** · 07-28-2004 11:07 AM

Originally posted by DVS18t
SPP is good for a k03 or k04.... dont think they are producing them right now though... EVO and ABT are very good though they are pricey....

there website still has them...are u shure there not sellin em anymore..because that is probably genna be my next choice

and also if they still do sell em does it come will all hardware?
(piping,brackets, conecters..blah blah blah)

**Mike~p** · 07-28-2004 11:09 AM

blah i was getting excited because it looked alright with the stock a4 front bumper

**Mike~p** · 07-28-2004 11:22 AM

welllllllllll good news...i just called them up and they said there still sellin em but they only get like 3-5 in at a time so if u want one u gota call ahead and reserve one...the guy was way chill and says for the stock a4 front bumper there is little trimming involved and he has full instructions on the install and trimming so i will definitly be reserving one them and probly gettin a rs4 front off him while im at it

**Mike~p** · 07-28-2004 11:25 AM

i guess that was only good news for me

**Paul_858** · 07-28-2004 11:29 AM

pressure drop can be caused by too much volume, crappy core flow capability, bad end tank design, bad pipe layout/design. Just make sure you get a FMIC that is designed for the appropriate application and that it's designed with flow capacity/speed in mind.

**Mike~p** · 07-28-2004 11:53 AM

yeah im hoping someone who has oen will see this post and give feedbakc but if not i guess ill be the lab rat an give it a go

but hey where in sd do you live...im over in mission beach

**Paul_858** · 07-28-2004 01:02 PM

Mira mesa, we have weekly meets on tuesdays usually. Check us out for some regional info, www.socaleuro.com

**Mike~p** · 07-28-2004 03:01 PM

whatttt man i went to mira measa high

crazyyy i need to get wit the program here

**Devious27t** · 07-28-2004 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Mike~p
yeah im hoping someone who has oen will see this post and give feedbakc but if not i guess ill be the lab rat an give it a go

but hey where in sd do you live...im over in mission beach

for what the SPP? many people have them you wouldnt be the lab rat by any means... they are priced just right for the build quality imo.... not trying to start a war here either those who have them i have just seen many build flaws in them. the flow is sufficient for a small triple K turbo though.

**Mike~p** · 07-28-2004 03:14 PM

thatsss meee

**czand1** · 07-28-2004 03:37 PM

I am running a greedy with neuspeed sko4 and did not notice much pressure drop at all. Maybe .5 pound. Still a bitch to install need a RS4 or S4 bumper and mount it right to the bumper support. RS4 bumper still will need trimming but it fills the front air duct perfect.

**Devious27t** · 07-28-2004 04:57 PM

Originally posted by czand1
I am running a greedy with neuspeed sko4 and did not notice much pressure drop at all. Maybe .5 pound. Still a bitch to install need a RS4 or S4 bumper and mount it right to the bumper support. RS4 bumper still will need trimming but it fills the front air duct perfect.

Sk04 flows alot more than a k04 iirc.... did you finally get that RS4 bumper on there? good to hear you like the greddy i know i am happy with mine.

**BoostinA4** · 07-28-2004 06:21 PM

the stock a4 bumper fits if you have a recipicating saw and alot of time, im running the greddy with a kkk k04 and its i like it alot

[/img]http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/589000-589999/589435_1_full.jpg[/img]

**BoostinA4** · 07-28-2004 06:22 PM

dont know how to post pics can anybody tell me???

**voodooA4** · 07-28-2004 06:25 PM

take out the / from the first IMG tag

**Devious27t** · 07-29-2004 12:00 AM

Originally posted by BoostinA4
the stock a4 bumper fits if you have a recipicating saw and alot of time, im running the greddy with a kkk k04 and its i like it alot

[/img]http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/589000-589999/589435_1_full.jpg[/img]

lol where the **** have you been? long time no speak...

**Devious27t** · 07-29-2004 12:01 AM

YOUR WELCOME

**Devious27t** · 07-29-2004 12:07 AM

Originally posted by sighpost
I guess what they are promoting is the idea that the drop in temps makes up for the drop in pressure. Ultimatley we care about air volume not pressure. Is it just not possible for an IC to drop pressure but make up for it with a drop in temps?

guess i missed this before... there is very very fine line between the two.... the main things you want to focus on when creating a functional power producing turbo system (on the intake side at least) is creating the coolest highest velocity charge pressure that you can.... what that little blurb from that site is assuming (what they dont tell you) is that you want to go as big as you can because in most cases there is very little space to make an intercooler in the front of the car. but many people take blurbs like that one that lack info to heart and cut thing out to make larger intercoolers work this is not necessarily the smart thing to do as if you turbo cant make a strong charge your requested boost and your actual boost will vary this is pressure drop. you can use a boost controller to fix this but then what happens is (assuming you have 2 psi pressure drop) you have to boost 16 psi to make 14.... that is essentially called overboosting (normally at higher boost pressures).

**littlewhite** · 07-29-2004 12:12 AM

I've had many good comments on the SPP FMIC. Greddy one i heard has some pressure loss, but u can just up your boost with a MBC

**czand1** · 07-30-2004 07:20 AM

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Still not happy with the grills. Had to remove the larger LLTEK mesh when I trimmed the back of the bumper. The stuff I used is a little to fine mesh for me. I am looking for some large diamond mesh made of plastic to attach in front of the fine mesh. Might go with stock RS4 grill Another project on another day. But it works great!