SMIC or FMIC

[FINA4]

Is there anyone with Ultra Sport front bumber who has installed FMIC? I just read the thread about Eurocode FMIC and it looked really good.

First someone said that US bumber requires some heavy cutting but then Dave@Ecode corrected that it's not required.

Does anyone know what's the status of that FMIC? And what's the price?

I've also been thinking to get a second SMIC, but I don't know which one is better. Any experiences?

Will the FMIC replace the existing stock SMIC?

Thanks!

[fongaroos]

i say go with the FMIC...

but if you want the SMIC PM villains. i think he is selling his SMIC for a good deal...

[astris]

Go with the FMIC! The FMIC will do a better job than the smic. I believe the FMIC from eurocode is out now, just not up on the sight yet. I think a couple of people have already ordered it.

Yes, the FMIC will replace the smic as far as I know.

[Turbo_Whip]

not completely sure but ive heard that the fmic provides better cooling than the dual smic but the fmic causes a pressure loss of some sort.

by the way, the eurocode fmic is retailing for $795 iirc.

[DLSJ5]

Originally posted by Turbo_Whip
not completely sure but ive heard that the fmic provides better cooling than the dual smic but the fmic causes a pressure loss of some sort.

by the way, the eurocode fmic is retailing for $795 iirc.

FMIC is more efficient and depending on the design it has less Pressure drop. So it's better all around. Eurocode's FMIC will have less PD then the Duals. I've had both setups, did some comparisions with my Prodiag and it really was no comparison.

On a Bi Turbo car, like the B5 S4, a Dual setup would make more sense, but on our cars the FMIC will allow you to advance the timing and maximize your performance. W/ the Revo '04 Beta chip and my OCT FMIC, In 100 degree weather at 1.4 bar my car didn't pull timing at all. FMIC all the way.

[FINA4]

Thanks for all the info!

I have APR chip and Thermal Race exhaust in my car. With the Eurocode FMIC, will I notice the PD if any?

How difficult it is to install?

[astris]

I want a FMIC so bad, this hot weather has been killing my power. The problem is I'm sure this will void the warranty. Correct? When the temp is around 100 I can barely feel the turbo pull.

Fina4,
You should feel an increase in power especially in the hot weather. Someone on here got one with their turbo upgrade and it dropped the temp quite a few degrees C. Anytime the temp drops, you are freeing up power.

[FINA4]

Originally posted by astris
I want a FMIC so bad, this hot weather has been killing my power. The problem is I'm sure this will void the warranty. Correct? When the temp is around 100 I can barely feel the turbo pull.

Fina4,
You should feel an increase in power especially in the hot weather. Someone on here got one with their turbo upgrade and it dropped the temp quite a few degrees C. Anytime the temp drops, you are freeing up power.

Yep, not sure about the warranty I have also only 6 months old car and I don't want to screw up the warranty totally, but like you said, in a hot weather I feel like driving stock TDI

Are you coming tonight GTG @ KK?

[Jeff]

Originally posted by DLSJ5
FMIC is more efficient and depending on the design it has less Pressure drop. So it's better all around. Eurocode's FMIC will have less PD then the Duals. I've had both setups, did some comparisions with my Prodiag and it really was no comparison.

On a Bi Turbo car, like the B5 S4, a Dual setup would make more sense, but on our cars the FMIC will allow you to advance the timing and maximize your performance. W/ the Revo '04 Beta chip and my OCT FMIC, In 100 degree weather at 1.4 bar my car didn't pull timing at all. FMIC all the way.

Drew,

How does your coolant temps look after the FMIC install? I like FMIC's personally, but have had cooling system issues in the past, where my charge air temps dropped, but my cooling effiency on the cooling system as well as A/C system dropped substantially as well. This was obviously on another car, but my oil and coolant temps went up about 30deg. on average. So all the timing advancement I gained from the lower charge air temps was really offset from the car running hotter overall, which really didnt do me any good. I ended up having to upgrade the radiator and add additional fans (especially in 100deg+ weather). I DO know the OE sidemounts on our cars suck ass, but wouldnt it be better to just upgrade the SMIC instead of adding a second? Just a thought..

-Jeff

[fongaroos]

Originally posted by Jeff
I DO know the OE sidemounts on our cars suck ass, but wouldnt it be better to just upgrade the SMIC instead of adding a second? Just a thought..

-Jeff

can you even do that?

there really isnt all that much room behind the fog light where the OE SMIC is...

were you thinkin about getting a BIGGER CORE or something to replace the OE SMIC?

and why would everything else run hotter just because of an IC?

[FINA4]

Originally posted by Jeff
Drew,

How does your coolant temps look after the FMIC install? I like FMIC's personally, but have had cooling system issues in the past, where my charge air temps dropped, but my cooling effiency on the cooling system as well as A/C system dropped substantially as well. This was obviously on another car, but my oil and coolant temps went up about 30deg. on average. So all the timing advancement I gained from the lower charge air temps was really offset from the car running hotter overall, which really didnt do me any good. I ended up having to upgrade the radiator and add additional fans (especially in 100deg+ weather). I DO know the OE sidemounts on our cars suck ass, but wouldnt it be better to just upgrade the SMIC instead of adding a second? Just a thought..

-Jeff

Hmm...this sound like there's no point to get an FMIC, but can it really be that way?

[DLSJ5]

Originally posted by Jeff
Drew,

How does your coolant temps look after the FMIC install? I like FMIC's personally, but have had cooling system issues in the past, where my charge air temps dropped, but my cooling effiency on the cooling system as well as A/C system dropped substantially as well. This was obviously on another car, but my oil and coolant temps went up about 30deg. on average. So all the timing advancement I gained from the lower charge air temps was really offset from the car running hotter overall, which really didnt do me any good. I ended up having to upgrade the radiator and add additional fans (especially in 100deg+ weather). I DO know the OE sidemounts on our cars suck ass, but wouldnt it be better to just upgrade the SMIC instead of adding a second? Just a thought..

-Jeff

Jeff,

There are no such issues with FMIC's on our cars, and people have expressed your concerns, but I've heard of no one running into those particular problems . As I stated I've ran both setups, 1st the duals and now the FMIC. The Coolent temps stayed exactly the same with both setups, 90-101C max. After several hard runs, the Intake temp differences between the two were as high as 20C!! At idle for 1 minute the Duals were 25C hotter than my FMIC. I've had the FMIC for 10K. No issues whatsoever. It is by far the best setup for a single turbo engine like ours. In fact a FMIC would be more essential for our small K03's because they become heatsoaked very quickly. Another way to bring down intake temps is a testpipe, it will bring down exhaust temps which result in a cooler turbo. Derrick has the duals on his car now and on the dyno his car got heatsoaked pretty bad. When I dynoed my car w/ the duals it consistantly lost power as much as 15HP! With the FM the numbers stayed consistent. The Dual vs. FMIC arguement is dead IMO w/ regards to the A4's, with the B5 S4's, there could be an argument that Duals are better. But I know of two B5 S4's running FMIC's and they're putting down massive HP to the wheels. Last I heard Audi is going with the FMIC on the next A4.

Best,

Drew

[gearhead]

Originally posted by Jeff
Drew,

How does your coolant temps look after the FMIC install? I like FMIC's personally, but have had cooling system issues in the past, where my charge air temps dropped, but my cooling effiency on the cooling system as well as A/C system dropped substantially as well. This was obviously on another car, but my oil and coolant temps went up about 30deg. on average. So all the timing advancement I gained from the lower charge air temps was really offset from the car running hotter overall, which really didnt do me any good. I ended up having to upgrade the radiator and add additional fans (especially in 100deg+ weather). I DO know the OE sidemounts on our cars suck ass, but wouldnt it be better to just upgrade the SMIC instead of adding a second? Just a thought..

-Jeff

Jeff,
Was this mainly because the FMIC gets located right in front of the radiator, getting the coolest air first? From Zemun2's pics in another thread is looks like Eurocode's FMIC covers just under half of a B6's radiator. If this enough to make a difference?

Dejan,
Have you experienced any of the cooling problems Jeff mentioned? Just wondering if the FMIC's thermal impact will be as much on our cars as on Jeff's previous one.

Oops, nevermind, I type slow and Drew answered my question!

[A4NCAR]

My choice would be FMIC

[Jeff]

Originally posted by fongaroos
can you even do that?

there really isnt all that much room behind the fog light where the OE SMIC is...

were you thinkin about getting a BIGGER CORE or something to replace the OE SMIC?

and why would everything else run hotter just because of an IC?

I am not very familiar w/ the A4's setup as far as clearances go, but on my Supra, there was plenty of room. The FMIC i had on that car was a 4-row (enough to cool 1000hp cars). I bought it for $1275, but mainly to replace my cracked rubber IC hoses, and hardpipes for my car at the time cost nearly $550. When I bought the FMIC, i had issues installing it, for I had to remove (and even CUT) a lot of the plastic duct/panels in order to clear the FMIC, that alone screwed up my cooling efficienct. If I could do it again on that car, I would use a larger core stock SMIC instead of the FMIC.

Sometimes better cooling does not always need a "bigger core". Some IC's cool better than others on design alone. Designs include the positioning of the fins, to the overall layout of the core. This is why some IC's also have less pressure drop than others, and vice versa.

From what Drew and others said, our cars still breath through the top grill section, and his coolant and oil temps didnt change much. I wouldnt mind giving it a try (im always open to new things). But personally, I like to retain the "OEM" stock look on the car, though those FMIC's DO look BADASS :)


Here is a picture of my 4-row FMIC, it has more cooling area than my radiator and AC condensor combined, but less than 1/2 of it was exposed to the outside airflow (which was another problem):

[gearhead]

Got a Eurocode FMIC installed this morning and there's two obvious reasons why I think it'll be better than SMIC's. One, it's over twice as big, about 10" x 18" (just eyeballed, not measured and may be larger) while the stock SMIC is around 8" x 10". So even if you have dual SMIC's you'll have only about 160 in2 of surface area vs at least 180 in2 for the FMIC.

Second, the FMIC gets not only direct airflow by taking advantage of the lower grill and vent below it but also gets air flowed through it all the time, convectiing heat efficiently. The SMIC's air is partially blocked by the fog light and air can't flow through because of the bracket/other stuff behind it. Air hits it, gets partially through and then has to do a u-turn--not good for convection.

[Saturnine]

Your still blocking airflow to the radiator thou.

[A4 - Oh Snap]

Yeah, but i think a pretty valid argument has been made that the FMIC is marginally better than the SMIC or dual SMICs. For the money, and the lack of clearance issues even on the USP bumper, I'm pretty much sold on the FMIC. Too bad it is 900 dollars.

I wonder if Eurocode just gets these things custom fabbed by Spearco.

[Jet Jockey]

Originally posted by DLSJ5
Jeff,

There are no such issues with FMIC's on our cars, and people have expressed your concerns, but I've heard of no one running into those particular problems . As I stated I've ran both setups, 1st the duals and now the FMIC. The Coolent temps stayed exactly the same with both setups, 90-101C max. After several hard runs, the Intake temp differences between the two were as high as 20C!! At idle for 1 minute the Duals were 25C hotter than my FMIC. I've had the FMIC for 10K. No issues whatsoever. It is by far the best setup for a single turbo engine like ours. In fact a FMIC would be more essential for our small K03's because they become heatsoaked very quickly. Another way to bring down intake temps is a testpipe, it will bring down exhaust temps which result in a cooler turbo. Derrick has the duals on his car now and on the dyno his car got heatsoaked pretty bad. When I dynoed my car w/ the duals it consistantly lost power as much as 15HP! With the FM the numbers stayed consistent. The Dual vs. FMIC arguement is dead IMO w/ regards to the A4's, with the B5 S4's, there could be an argument that Duals are better. But I know of two B5 S4's running FMIC's and they're putting down massive HP to the wheels. Last I heard Audi is going with the FMIC on the next A4.

Best,

Drew

Hi Drew, It's me and I'm back to haunt you. You know that I'm not going to let you get off that easy!

Just joking, bye.

[bbaudi382]

lol...

[zemun2]

I also got Eurocode FMIC and haven't seen coolant temp get past the middle of the gauge.
FMIC core is not thick enough to block the air from the radiator like you see on supras etc, where they need aditional fans.
I've been looking for FMIC for quite some time now and $795 is cheapest so far.
This intercooler is hard piped, not like DSMIC where you keep stock hoses.

[A4 - Oh Snap]

Eurocode is charging $895 now from what I have read. I have not confirmed this myself though.

[G_A4]

$895 for a eurocode FMIC is still not bad. all the others are over a grand. the good ones that is.

[zemun2]

My bad it's $895, just a typo.

[Villains]

Originally posted by A4 - Oh Snap
Eurocode is charging $895 now from what I have read. I have not confirmed this myself though.

The price has gone up to $895, but that is still a great deal. It is only $95 dollars more then the DSMIC. I have the DSMICs but will be going to a FMIC because I got a great deal on it and I will post my before and after results. Both dyno numbers and intake temps. Gerard (G_A4) has already installed the EuroCode FMIC on his Ultra Sport and reported that it fit perfectly. There is only a very minor amount of trimming, but no actual cutting involved; nothing like some of the other kits.

By the way, I have sold my DSMIC to John (Saturnine), but thanks for passing the info along fongaroos, I appreciate it.

[DLSJ5]

Originally posted by Jet Jockey
Hi Drew, It's me and I'm back to haunt you. You know that I'm not going to let you get off that easy!

Just joking, bye.

Hehe... Good to see you back. Nice numbers on the dyno.

[bhvrdr]

IMO, both have their benefits. If you are looking into a FMIC, I would wait for a unit that provides vertical flow such as the APR that is in R&D and the old Racetek Z-flow that is fitted for the B5 and will hopefully come available for the B6. Vertical flow is highly efficient. One of the benefits of the DSMICs it the vertical flow and the other is the cold bypass feature which allows the air to be cooled that is returned to the sysem rather that with the SSMIC and a FMIC that returns the bypass air prior to reaching the intercooler. This is not to say that the DSMICs are better at all. Just that there are some positives and negatives of both designs. I think some of the vertical flow FMICs that will come to market will be the way to go. Cheers! Mike

<

[Saturnine]

Ive actually thought about buying a B5 Racetec fmic, and just repiping it.. It'll fit, thats for sure.

[gearhead]

Originally posted by Saturnine
Your still blocking airflow to the radiator thou.

Well, yes, about 45% of the radiator is covered by the FMIC but air flows through, it's just a little hotter by the time it gets to the radiator. I'll keep tabs on my coolant temps and post if they increase.

Install is very clean is Derrick says, just some minor trimming, nothing a future car buyer would notice/care about it that's your concern.

Okay, there is a negative side, FMIC adds a coupla pounds to the car in the worst place, the nose.

[neoprufrok]

Originally posted by bhvrdr
IMO, both have their benefits. If you are looking into a FMIC, I would wait for a unit that provides vertical flow such as the APR that is in R&D and the old Racetek Z-flow that is fitted for the B5 and will hopefully come available for the B6. Vertical flow is highly efficient. One of the benefits of the DSMICs it the vertical flow and the other is the cold bypass feature which allows the air to be cooled that is returned to the sysem rather that with the SSMIC and a FMIC that returns the bypass air prior to reaching the intercooler. This is not to say that the DSMICs are better at all. Just that there are some positives and negatives of both designs. I think some of the vertical flow FMICs that will come to market will be the way to go. Cheers! Mike

<

APR FMIC? Available in 2 weeks?

Yeah, I really hope that APR starts picking up the ball and getting there stuff out soon. Either they're being really careful in their R&D or they're just lagging behind from laziness. Oh well, I won't be getting a Stg 3/4 kit till next spring anyways!

[FINA4]

Anyone got/bought the FMIC from Eurocode recently? Still want to confirm the price, 'cause some people have got it cheaper than $895.00...just wondering...

[Villains]

Originally posted by FINA4
Anyone got/bought the FMIC from Eurocode recently? Still want to confirm the price, 'cause some people have got it cheaper than $895.00...just wondering...

The price is $895.00; I just got mine on Saturday. PM me if you want a great deal on a used one. I can hook you up for about $650 and it has only been on a car for about 2 weeks as well. The guy is selling his car so he no longer needs it. Let me know.

[fongaroos]

ohh mang thats an AWESOME DEAL!

well... sounds pretty good to me at least...

[FINA4]

Is your friend still selling his used FMIC? Let me know so I can let Dave@Ecode know that I need only installation if your friend is still selling it.

Originally posted by Villains
The price is $895.00; I just got mine on Saturday. PM me if you want a great deal on a used one. I can hook you up for about $650 and it has only been on a car for about 2 weeks as well. The guy is selling his car so he no longer needs it. Let me know.

[Villains]

Originally posted by FINA4
Is your friend still selling his used FMIC? Let me know so I can let Dave@Ecode know that I need only installation if your friend is still selling it.

Sorry, he is keeping it now. But a new one from Ecode is still an awesome deal!