k04 vs s4

[xburbx]

im still shopping for a k04 and was wondering how it compares to an s4. can anyone who has driven both give a comparison

[MR VTEC]

s4 is still more powerful
no comparison

[Devious27t]

on pump gas and normal boost you will lose to a stock one assuming the guy can drive it..

[xburbx]

does it feel similar or is not even that close

[SoleMate]

anyone have track times of a stock 1.8t w/ the K04 upgrade?

[nizmosx]

both cars feel quick but s4 will most likely walk away from the k04. plus most guys who have the s4 most likely at least got it chipped. then its no contest.

[DDQ]

Originally posted by xburbx
does it feel similar or is not even that close

One is a V6 twin turbo, the other is a 4 cylinder with one turbo. Completely different feel.

The K04 is not exactly a monster upgrade.

[Devious27t]

Originally posted by nizmosx
both cars feel quick but s4 will most likely walk away from the k04. plus most guys who have the s4 most likely at least got it chipped. then its no contest.

haha there will be no walking a away they might get a half car on a freeway run... consider that the s4 has about 10 more hp but the a4 weighs significantly less.... the main factor that will help the s4 is the more agressive gearing of the 6 speed compared to the longer gears of the 5 speed... more torque as well.

[A4Jon1.8t]

Here's an idea, look at the power to weight ratio. Stock hp on an 01 S4 is 250. AWE Tuning claims 235hp out of their K04 upgrade kit. Weight on an 01 S4 is 3593lbs, on an 01 A4 is 3087lbs. Sounds to me like they would be very similar.

[Devious27t]

Originally posted by A4Jon1.8t
Here's an idea, look at the power to weight ratio. Stock hp on an 01 S4 is 250. AWE Tuning claims 235hp out of their K04 upgrade kit. Weight on an 01 S4 is 3593lbs, on an 01 A4 is 3087lbs. Sounds to me like they would be very similar.

like i said before gearing and torque make a huge difference you can only use power to weight when you are comparing apples to apples. though they are the same chassis its still apples to oranges.

[MR VTEC]

well technically we're comparing a4's to s4's

[Hassmeister]

As for comparison... the K04 and associated software is worth about 0- 60 in 6 secs. The S4 would certainly be under that. Keeping in mind 1.8 liter vs 2.7 (twin turbo). Yes the S4 (V6) would give you the thump in the butt compared to the 1.8t ,yet what are you willing to spend?? I can work on my 1.8t with no problems, where as the 2.7t you have limlited space to work on and if turbo(s) blow you have LIMITED space to deal with removing either of them. I've done my mods and it's easy, where as the V6 would be NOT so easy. Yes, I'd like and S4 and I'm not willing to go that route in to debt just for another second in 0-60 and add more bite to my wallet.

Hey, the bottom line IMPO is that people around me have SRT-4's hyped up and the Subaru's (yuck- Jap crap... not like the true rallye car)and yet, I have a great German car with "great styling and much more horse power (zoom this Mazda!) than stock" and it STILL will retain realiability over time. I'm very happy!
Good luck in your choice!

And BTW, the K04 is a "Cost effective" upgrade (reasonable) compared to whats out there. A considerable difference for what you pay!

[aborchew]

just get an S4 and TWO K04's

[MR VTEC]

hass i think he wants to know which one is faster..... maybe.....

[Hassmeister]

Originally posted by aborchew
just get an S4 and TWO K04's

Volunteer...
Yeah, and you'll be his crewchief incase anything goes wrong!

[nizmosx]

dvs i understand that the a4 is lighter but the s4 has a beter 0-60, if that guy can drive his s4 he would walk away. i have driven both cars however my k04 isnt running to its full capacity right now so i cant make an exact comparison, but looking at numbers between stock s4's and k04ed a4, the are pretty even and usualy ends up in driver skill but ill find out once i get my ecu from ams this weekend. ill be running my car at carlsbad the 31st if anyone knows a stock s4 that wants to come along.

[aborchew]

Originally posted by Hassmeister
Volunteer...
Yeah, and you'll be his crewchief incase anything goes wrong!

I was thinking driver, but I guess crew chief is okay

[maxh2o]

xburbx, your looking at doing the k04 with a chip right?

[voltronb5]

get an s4..... better platform for your MODing needs. i think if you ask most a4 owners they would rather be in a s4.

[Hassmeister]

Originally posted by MR VTEC
hass i think he wants to know which one is faster..... maybe.....

Boy, that's a given.

[Zodiak]

Originally posted by voltronb5
get an s4..... better platform for your MODing needs. i think if you ask most a4 owners they would rather be in a s4.

dunno, if I'm at a track, I'd rather be in a Stage 3 A4 over a chipped S4. The weight and handling would be better in the A4. But we're getting off topic. Xburbx, a K04 will bring you very close to stock S4 territory. You'll hang right with a tip s4 (you're 5spd right?). But the k04 won't make you a world beater.

[xburbx]

maxh20 - yes i am looking for it with a chip, seems to usually come in the package

[voltronb5]

Originally posted by Zodiak
dunno, if I'm at a track, I'd rather be in a Stage 3 A4 over a chipped S4. The weight and handling would be better in the A4. But we're getting off topic. Xburbx, a K04 will bring you very close to stock S4 territory. You'll hang right with a tip s4 (you're 5spd right?). But the k04 won't make you a world beater.

the same could be said in any situation... if i was mobbing down the freeway agianst a wrx or lancer.... i would rather keep my hopes in an s4....


i mean... it each his own, but i just like to think that all us A4 owner would rather really have an S4.... like all 3series BMW owners would rather have an M3... u know

[MR VTEC]

not all, most!

[Howard Hughes]

well most people know K04 turbos aren't the ultimate upgrade for your A4, But I did hear they would keep up through the first couple gears.

Also not to get completly off topic, how does a T-28 fair?

[pdxa4]

I've kept up no problem and overtook stock S4's when I had my K04 setup on trackdays...One or two instructors mistook my car as a S4 until I told them it was a 1.8T...

I never got out on the track in the J31 setup...but that and the intercooler would have helped me out a lot...

But anyway, a well tuned K04'd A4 will be close to a stock S4, driver skill would make the difference...but once the S4 is chipped then forget it on the straights...

To me on a track day I'd much prefer to have a stage3 A4 to a chipped S4 on the track...

Now a K04'd S4 would be a different story, hell just give me a B6 S4 and I'll be happy...

[DRA4]

S4 stock is still faster, totally different animals, S4 is a beast.

[awe4rings]

Originally posted by voltronb5
the same could be said in any situation... if i was mobbing down the freeway agianst a wrx or lancer.... i would rather keep my hopes in an s4....


i mean... it each his own, but i just like to think that all us A4 owner would rather really have an S4.... like all 3series BMW owners would rather have an M3... u know

Actually I know of several 3 series owners that do not want an M3 because of the over-agressive styling in their eyes but they have modded their engines to comparable and better performance than the M3. I had an opertunity to purchase an S4 rather than my A4 but the maintanence prices and price if things go wrong were just way too high. I wouldn't even consider getting under the hood of an S4 either, while I jump right in on my A4 because everything is relatively excessible, sorry I cant just drop my engine on a Saturday morning to check lines and turbos like you probably can.

[excursion]

Those 2 extra cylinders count for a whole lot on a turbo car, not to mention the cylinder head setup on the S4. It's a very torquey machine.

We can also get Aluminium cylinder blocks here in the UK.

[Devious27t]

Originally posted by nizmosx
dvs i understand that the a4 is lighter but the s4 has a beter 0-60, if that guy can drive his s4 he would walk away. i have driven both cars however my k04 isnt running to its full capacity right now so i cant make an exact comparison, but looking at numbers between stock s4's and k04ed a4, the are pretty even and usualy ends up in driver skill but ill find out once i get my ecu from ams this weekend. ill be running my car at carlsbad the 31st if anyone knows a stock s4 that wants to come along.

did you ever search on AW like i told you to? when are you getting that fmic?

[Devious27t]

Originally posted by pdxa4
I've kept up no problem and overtook stock S4's when I had my K04 setup on trackdays...One or two instructors mistook my car as a S4 until I told them it was a 1.8T...

I never got out on the track in the J31 setup...but that and the intercooler would have helped me out a lot...

But anyway, a well tuned K04'd A4 will be close to a stock S4, driver skill would make the difference...but once the S4 is chipped then forget it on the straights...

To me on a track day I'd much prefer to have a stage3 A4 to a chipped S4 on the track...

Now a K04'd S4 would be a different story, hell just give me a B6 S4 and I'll be happy...

i would take the A4 simply because chipped s4s eat the shit out of turbos and their trannys are freaking worthless. though we have shorter gears our trannies are stronger.... a4 platform is just a much more stable platform to mod with, plain believe it or not fewer things will go wrong with an a4. for non-believers of this statement dont argue with me rather call euro-tech in west LA or jeff moss at the torque factory i have had long conversations about this with both of them who are extremely experienced in working on s4's and a4's... they both strongly advised me against getting an s4 which is why i have a heavily modded a4 and not a chipped s4.

[Ryan S.]

Originally posted by DVS18t
i would take the A4 simply because chipped s4s eat the shit out of turbos and their trannys are freaking worthless. though we have shorter gears our trannies are stronger.... a4 platform is just a much more stable platform to mod with, plain believe it or not fewer things will go wrong with an a4. for non-believers of this statement dont argue with me rather call euro-tech in west LA or jeff moss at the torque factory i have had long conversations about this with both of them who are extremely experienced in working on s4's and a4's... they both strongly advised me against getting an s4 which is why i have a heavily modded a4 and not a chipped s4.

can you elaborate on "heavily modded". just trying to get some ideas for my car.

[onemoremile]

wow, lots of speculation out there.

i am sitting in my office looking out the window at matching black avants.
one (mine) is a 1999.5 A4 with K04, spp efk, gutted cats, kw coilovers, h-sport sways, fat sticky tires, a8 brakes with carbotech pads, etc.
the other (boss's) is a 2001 S4 that ran APR flipswitch programming and sticky tires and was otherwise stock until 120,000 miles. then it got real RS4 turbos, big custom spearco intercoolers, lightweight wheels and GSd1s.

the stock s4 is quicker than the K04 a4. the k04 a4 is a lot more fun and quicker on a road course. with my suspension mods it would be hard to pick a winner on a road course versus the RS4 turbo'd S4. my cornering and exit speeds would be higher but speed at the braking point would be lower. a course that favored brakes and cornering would be better for the A4 and a course with a lot of straights would be better in the S4.
on the open road that s4 is a monster than can't be touched by many cars. i have driven an evo and have plenty of seat time in an sti and would be happy to put my $$$ up against the rally cars.

up until 60 the gearing in the a4 and s4 isn't much different. i haven't checked ratios but they both hit redline at similar speeds in gear. the biggest thing that nobody here has mentioned is the powerband difference. my K04 makes real power (butt dyno verified) from about 3000 until 6000 or so. the S4 makes power from 2200 until 7000. in real world driving that is one hell of a difference.

the other big difference is that while my boss paid 46k (~$960 per month) for his car and has put another 11k into it, i paid 15k for mine and have put about 7k into it. my original goal was to be faster than his S4 was stock for less than half the money and i have accomplished that. faster than his S4 chipped will require a turbo upgrade on my part.

-jt