B7 Multi-Function Steering Wheel into 2002 Audi 24...

[AvanTTix]

Fair enough... ...

For the record, during the recall of the 2-stage A6 airbags 3-4 years, Audi instructed its mechanics to blow off the airbags to avoid discarding them while there was still a possibility one might accidentally fired-up. My mechanic, who used to be a Master Tech, was blowing up these 2-stage airbags by wiring them up as 1-stage airbags. So it's known that a 2-stage can be wired as a 1-stage and inflates when triggered. However let's be clear here, this still does NOT prove anything as to what would happen in real life situation.

There has been cases of accidents involving a vehicle in which a 2-stage airbags was installed and wired up as a 1-stage airbag. In some of these accidents, mine included, the SW airbag didn't deploy while the passenger side airbag did. As far as I'm concerned and I've said it before, I don't believe my SW airbag malfunctioned and I'm actually glad it didn't deploy. There has been one accident in which the 2-stage airbag deployed.

I also find it interesting that there has recently been report (i.e. a thread) about an accident involving a vehicle w/ a 1-stage airbag in which the SW airbag didn't deploy while the passenger side airbag did, which is consistent w/ what happened in mine.

Again, and as you said, until someone forks over the money to perform rigorous testing around this particular mod, all of this should be carefully considered when doing this particular mod.

Note to self: create a dedicated thread about this... ...

[halik]

Fair enough... ...

For the record, during the recall of the 2-stage A6 airbags 3-4 years, Audi instructed its mechanics to blow off the airbags to avoid discarding them while there was still a possibility one might accidentally fired-up. My mechanic, who used to be a Master Tech, was blowing up these 2-stage airbags by wiring them up as 1-stage airbags. So it's known that a 2-stage can be wired as a 1-stage and inflates when triggered. However let's be clear here, this still does NOT prove anything as to what would happen in real life situation.

There has been cases of accidents involving a vehicle in which a 2-stage airbags was installed and wired up as a 1-stage airbag. In some of these accidents, mine included, the SW airbag didn't deploy while the passenger side airbag did. As far as I'm concerned and I've said it before, I don't believe my SW airbag malfunctioned and I'm actually glad it didn't deploy. There has been one accident in which the 2-stage airbag deployed.

I also find it interesting that there has recently been report (i.e. a thread) about an accident involving a vehicle w/ a 1-stage airbag in which the SW airbag didn't deploy while the passenger side airbag did, which is consistent w/ what happened in mine.

Again, and as you said, until someone forks over the money to perform rigorous testing around this particular mod, all of this should be carefully considered when doing this particular mod.

Note to self: create a dedicated thread about this... ...

There's a guy here with a B6 cab that had the B7 steering wheel pop in his accident, thought it would be nice to get more data.

It is a fact that the seatbelt restraints, steering wheel or pass side airbags can fire independently of one another, so having the passenger airbag go, but not the driver's is entirely feasible.

My brother does R&D on the seatbelt things for an automotive supplier, confirmed the above.

[AvanTTix]

Im almost positive that there are no circumstances under which the SDM (I dont know what audi calls their airbag module, GM calls it a Sensory Diagnostic Module) will intentionally fire the passenger side bag but not fire the driver side bag.

If the passenger bag blows in an accident, the driver side [should have] blown too. The side-impact airbags are obviously independant; they might not necessarily deploy when the front bags deploy or vice versa, but the two front bags are on the same deployment loop. The exception being the B7 airbags with the passenger sensing system/active passenger side airbag...depending on if someone is sitting in the passenger seat, or if the person is too small, in an accident it might deploy only the driver side bag and not deploy the passenger side bag, but NEVER vice-versa.

I think those instances of B7 bag retrofits (where the B6 was crashed and the pass bag deployed but the driver side did NOT) were simply that the B7 bag is....wait for it....simply NOT compatible (in any way) with a B6 single stage SDM.

JMO.

ben

ORL'Y... You naysayers are making this way too easy... ...

Let's see. As unfortunate as Tony's accident was, this was a perfect example as to what could happen when a car w/ an OEM airbag set-up crashes.

Well tonight I crashed my car on my way to my girlfriends house. ... I'm in the fast lane going 65 because it's raining pretty heavily and I didn't feel like speeding. Next thing I know, my car is slowly doing a 180 across all 3 lanes and I smash driver side first into a huge wall. At this point my car is facing traffic along the side shoulder in the pouring rain. My passenger side airbag went off but mine didn't...

Wanna reconsider your statement Ben... ...

Now Ben, do not take this personally. I'm just trying to illustrate that when it comes to airbags, unless one has an extensive understanding of their operating mode as well as first hand experience, we all know sh!t and we're all just drawing our own assumptions/conclusions.

The statement below is probably the most reliable piece of information posted on this particular topic just b/c it comes from someone who has experience in this field. Albeit it's still second hand information, but it makes so much sense.

It is a fact that the seatbelt restraints, steering wheel or pass side airbags can fire independently of one another, so having the passenger airbag go, but not the driver's is entirely feasible.

My brother does R&D on the seatbelt things for an automotive supplier, confirmed the above.

Why would you develop a system that would be costly to replace and that could also lead to more injuries due to unnecessary deployment?

Imagine the cost insurance companies would have to pay if the airbag system wasn't engineered in a way that each unit is somewhat independent from each other when cars get into accidents. The side curtains are independent from the SW airbag or the passenger airbag. Obviously sensors are located throughout the car to provide the on-board computer to figure out which airbag(s) need to be fired off and when.

I would actually not be surprised to hear/learn that insurance companies played a role when auto-makers decided to implement bladders in passenger seats to confirm the presence of a person in that seat before deploying the airbag.

[dmaxben]

I do know that the pretensioners can fire with or without an airbag deployment.

Did you check the airbag control module as to what DTC's were set? Usually they will set a 'latched' (cant be cleared/reset) code for deployment threshold exceeded and a DTC for each airbag that was fired. If there were any faults present at the time of the crash.

My info also comes from a safety/restraints engineer...(but he is at GM)...ok???? Now of course you can say "duh well this isnt a shitty old GM now is it, its an AUDI", but GM has been making airbags and active restraints longer than anyone else, so I would think it would be a fair guess that other car mfg's follow the typical GM-airbag scenarios???? (the SDM wont fire only the passenger side bag without also firing the driver side bag)

So im not totally pulling assumptions out of my butt. Regardless, until I find an instance of a B7-airbag-swapped-B6 having a crash with a proper driver side deployment, its ALL just "speculation".....

[Turbavanttro]

GM has been making airbags and active restraints longer than anyone else, so I would think it would be a fair guess that other car mfg's follow the typical GM-airbag scenarios???? (the SDM wont fire only the passenger side bag without also firing the driver side bag)

Personally, I dont think that is a fair guess at all. I think it is quite a far fetched guess....and sounds as if it was pulled quite directly out of your arse. Nothing against your friend's input, but that logic has no factual basis whatsoever. I would guess the exact opposite based on the fact that car manufacturers spend millions upon millions in airbag research and development trying to win the highest safety ratings and out-perform their competitors.

[dmaxben]

Personally, I dont think that is a fair guess at all. I think it is quite a far fetched guess....and sounds as if it was pulled quite directly out of your arse. Nothing against your friend's input, but that logic has no factual basis whatsoever. I would guess the exact opposite based on the fact that car manufacturers spend millions upon millions in airbag research and development trying to win the highest safety ratings and out-perform their competitors.

Fair enough. I still think the final ruling is "unknown"...IMO it cant be said with any degree of certainty as to whether "yes, it will 100% work properly" or "no, it wont work at all".

However AvanTTix's info also comes from "a friend in the safety/restraints industry"...so whos to say either of our sources are right or wrong?

or its just cause im the newb here, my source's word automatically has less merit which ok, I can understand.

Airbags are by definition "supplemental restraints", they are 100% designed to be used in conjunction with seatbelts, obviously, as we all know. Car manufacturers design them around (and to be most effective with) seatbelt usage. If the occupant isnt wearing a seatbelt, car mfg's are "off the hook" so to speak and theoretically/technically have no responsibility in terms of designing the airbag to work/protect the occupant in that scenario. Yes, auto mfg's DO do out-of-position airbag testing, but the odds of their results being repeatable in the real world are slim to none.

Of course the holy grail would be if someone could contact an audi 8E safety/restraints engineer and get a definitive (albiet 'off the record') answer.

I suppose another way, is if someone took a B6 single stage bag, and a B7 two stage bag, and setup high speed cameras, and a very precise/accurate meter/scope to measure peak current draw, duration, and resistance when the airbag is fired. Measure the electrical data when a single stage bag is deployed, and compare it to both when a B7 bag has both stages wired in parallel, when both are wired in series, and finally with only one or the other stage hooked up. Then review high speed camera footage of the two and compare ignition timing, deployment characteristics, and the amount of time it takes from sending the electrical signal to full deployment/inflation. If I had a couple thousand bucks to spend on this, thats the way I would do it...

Like I said, im not arguing over whos right and whos wrong, but I dont think its fair to call out a definitive answer on this and people doing this swap SHOULD be made well aware of the potential risks.

Ben

[AvanTTix]

There is/was one:

There's a guy here with a B6 cab that had the B7 steering wheel pop in his accident, thought it would be nice to get more data.