Building Courage...

[Spidee]

Recently there have been some threads about blown trannies and ruined synchros. The blown trannies have been CVT's and ruined synchros have been common in the manuals. Some have said that the bulletproof trannies so far have been the Tiptronics. Well, all of this has given me some confidence. I'm thinking of an APR K04 for my TIP.

APR doesn't see why it wouldn't bolt up. However, they won't recommend it. Now I'm thinking of being the pioneer in this.

What do you guys think?

[B7!]

Do It

[audiway]

balls!

[B7AudiA4]

I'm thinking if you could and want to try, do it.. You can always sell it... But not make everything you paid for.

[SEXICÄN]

just do it!

[mrponline]

Yup do it !

[kharsnett]

do it!

[grendel]

I vote do it, too.

I'm new around here. Is the K04 really so much more powerful than the K03 that it screws up the synchros in a manual transmission? Who here has destroyed their manual transmission with a K04? I ask, because I'm contemplating a K04 for my car in the future.

[YZracer]

Didn't Alex@creative have a K04 in his TIP? The silver one that he sold a while back, or maybe it was someone else. Anyway, it worked out fine for him, so you shouldn't have a problem. Go for it and let us know how it is.

[MBoyd4motion]

I'll do it when warranty is out. :) There was a thread on Audiworld a few days ago and the torque rating might be more than we think.

[Dangler]

If you are serious, and have the dough to do it, along with back up money for potential repairs....which i dont think you'll need....the go for it, you'd be doing a great service for all the tiptronic owners. there are tiptronic threads before, discussing the power handling of the tiptronic.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ight=tiptronic

later in that thread someone email zf for the trans specs.

[10MPG]

That is hot. Do et.

[A4_cabrio]

DO IT! DO IT! yeah DO IT!

[A4TuNeD]

I say do it because I want to see what happens....haha

[JCleary]

I think it would be great to have the power, but it's worthless without addressing one, if not the only major problem with our tip trannies.

The shift speed is pathetic. The motor can haul a** to redline, then make a weak, slow, lazy shift, then haul a** to redline again, only to make another weak, slow, lazy shift and so on.

You need someone to reprogram the TCU or modify your valve body so the car clicks off nice, clean, efficient shifts under full throttle like, ummm, a BMW?

Otherwise I think you'll be frustrated by the new-found power. I think it also might be good for your shop to pump up the line pressure a bit to let your clutches in the trans hold the power a bit better.

my $0.02

[SleeperAvant]

I've never heard of a tiptronic quattro transmission breaking...there are a few people on the B6 forum that have Big Turbo setups with no problems...I'm talking GT28R or bigger. With that said the B7 6speed AT is probably stronger than the B6 5speed AT, I assume it is the same automatic tranny found in the b6/b7 S4s? Not sure though so someone might want to chime in.

[SleeperAvant]

I think it would be great to have the power, but it's worthless without addressing one, if not the only major problem with our tip trannies.

The shift speed is pathetic. The motor can haul a** to redline, then make a weak, slow, lazy shift, then haul a** to redline again, only to make another weak, slow, lazy shift and so on.

You need someone to reprogram the TCU or modify your valve body so the car clicks off nice, clean, efficient shifts under full throttle like, ummm, a BMW?

Otherwise I think you'll be frustrated by the new-found power. I think it also might be good for your shop to pump up the line pressure a bit to let your clutches in the trans hold the power a bit better.

my $0.02

Good advice.

[grendel]

Does anyone know anyone who has toasted a manual 6-speed with a K04?

[Fobia]

i think you are going to be spending alot more money then you would ever of wanted to.

[Dangler]

http://www.levelten.com/index.html

contact these guys.....they'll help you with a cost effective solution

[Nico]

Does anyone know anyone who has toasted a manual 6-speed with a K04?

B7! had issues with his MT. He also has a KO4. But the MT problems may not have been related to the KO4.

[Spidee]

Jcleary might be right....

Currently on the tracks I attend, Laguna Seca and Thunderhill raceway, I'm mostly in third. On occasion I drop down to 2nd gear on one turn per track. The highest gear I hit now is 4th. That's going down a straightaway. I don't complain about the TIP because my shifts are only one gear at a time, up to 4th from 3rd, down to 3rd from 4th, and down to 2nd from 3rd. The shifts are somewhat slow so I do have to time my shifts correctly so that I'm in the right gear before entering the turn. If I add more power, the slow reacting TIP is going to ruin the use of all that power. Why?

With the new power I might have to double my downshifts. Since the TIP is not fast, I'll most likely be waiting for the TIP to get into the right gear going thru the turn or apex. That right there will not be fast. In fact, that will be dangerous.

I just went to Thunderhill yesterday. I improved my time lap by 1 second. My fastest time in the Audi is 2:20. My personal fastest in the last car I had was 2:15. I realized playing with the tire air pressure made a difference. So instead of more power, I'm going to improve the suspension instead. Streetsport coils have to go. I need stickier tires and better brake pads. The car has enough power right now on 100 octane program to twist the car around a turn. So I need to stiffin up the suspension first.

Sorry guys, if it hasn't been done, another TIP owner needs to be the guinea pig for the K04. Thanks for the encouragement and advice.

[lnferno]

Spidee -- on that note, what brake pads are you using and/or plan to upgrade to?

[Spidee]

I have the ECS Porsche Stage 4 BBK with the Hawk HP pads that come with the kit. ECS told me that there isn't too many options for brake pad on these Cayenne/Brembo 6 piston calipers. ECS offers Pagid RS29 pads. I'm going to research if Ferodo makes some for it. I've always heard good things about Ferodo. If not, I'll go Pagid.

[redhott06]

ahh damn..i was wanting someone to do the k04 ever since that apr financing came out hehe. oh well..someone will! good luck with the rest of your upgrades! maybe ill get on the track with my tip one dayy..

[OutkastSL]

i say go for it...i had a k04 on my b5 and didn't have any problems. for the b7, i just can't justify paying that much money for a k04 right now. i would do it, if i plan on keeping the car after the lease, but at this point, i think i will upgrade to the b8 or another audi when the lease is up in 2009.

[A4_cabrio]

I am sure you are not the first one with a tiptronic and K04.
I am planning to do the same thing if I keep the car past the expiration of the lease and the K03 blows up.

[swoardrider]

Jcleary might be right....

Currently on the tracks I attend, Laguna Seca and Thunderhill raceway, I'm mostly in third. On occasion I drop down to 2nd gear on one turn per track. The highest gear I hit now is 4th. That's going down a straightaway. I don't complain about the TIP because my shifts are only one gear at a time, up to 4th from 3rd, down to 3rd from 4th, and down to 2nd from 3rd. The shifts are somewhat slow so I do have to time my shifts correctly so that I'm in the right gear before entering the turn. If I add more power, the slow reacting TIP is going to ruin the use of all that power. Why?

With the new power I might have to double my downshifts. Since the TIP is not fast, I'll most likely be waiting for the TIP to get into the right gear going thru the turn or apex. That right there will not be fast. In fact, that will be dangerous.

Yes, yes, yes. This is exactly what I said a while ago in a past post when someone asked me why I even take a Tip to the track. Most of the time your just shifting between a few gears. I just did the Streets of Willows track on Friday, and was either in 2nd or 3rd the whole time except for the 2 small straights. Tip is only slow on downshifts coming off of long straights. It doesn't match RPM's, so sometimes it won't downshift when you want it to because your going, for what the car thinks, is too fast to do a downshift. But in reality your scrubbing of so much speed so fast, that if the car would downshift when you want it to, things would be fine. So because of this, it ends up downshifting a little later than you want and sometimes downshifts in the beginning apex of the turn, thus unsettling the chassis. Spidee, I think this is what you mean by the double downshifts. It happens to me with long straights that have hairpins at the other end like Laguna turn 2, Thunderhill, turn 15, and now going counter clockwise at The Streets. My friend's Gallardo with DSG would double downshift on Friday so insane, it sounded like Michael Schumacher was driving! For me, this has been the only major drawback of a Tip at the track.
Upshifting doesn't seem to be really any slower than someone can shift a manual. It's just delayed. So you just adjust your shifts be shifting slightly earlier than with a manual. Although I'm sure I'm losing more power while upshifting than a manual. Which is all the more reason to get a KO4 for a Tip But the benefit of the "softer" upshifts is that their is much less strain on driveline components than a hard hitting short shifted manual.
Another benefit of my Tip I learned on Friday is that even in "manual mode" if you come out of a turn in too high a gear (lugging), you just floor it out of the turn, which you do anyways with only 200 hp, and the car will downshift automatically. So lugging is really almost non existent. Which is not true for a manual. I found this to be very useful on a short, technical track like The Streets.
My new gripe about the Tip, is that at redline, it will auto upshift. This was sometimes a downside at The Streets. I wanna talk to APR and see if they can write a program into their software that will hold the gear??

[swoardrider]

With the new power I might have to double my downshifts. Since the TIP is not fast, I'll most likely be waiting for the TIP to get into the right gear going thru the turn or apex. That right there will not be fast. In fact, that will be dangerous.

I just went to Thunderhill yesterday. I improved my time lap by 1 second. My fastest time in the Audi is 2:20. My personal fastest in the last car I had was 2:15. I realized playing with the tire air pressure made a difference. So instead of more power, I'm going to improve the suspension instead. Streetsport coils have to go. I need stickier tires and better brake pads. The car has enough power right now on 100 octane program to twist the car around a turn. So I need to stiffin up the suspension first.

Sorry guys, if it hasn't been done, another TIP owner needs to be the guinea pig for the K04. Thanks for the encouragement and advice.

No, and Yes. I don't think KO4 will make you double downshift anymore than the turns that already require it. In fact, the added torque will be a huge benefit. An example of this would be the "corkscrew". I've tried it in 2nd and 3rd. Second gear is good for the top left turn, but way too short for the bottom right, causing me to have to shift at the scariest part, the end of the turn at the bottom! The added torque of the KO4 will help the top turn and you'll get more drive out of the corkscrew at the bottom. An even better example would be turns 13 and 14 at Thunderhill. It's essentially a crorksrew with no elevation change. Every Audi I've been in, loses time there. I think because it's in between our gearing. Pretty much the only thing that seems to make up that lost time is a car with torque. AWD, front engine cars really hate these turns. And our open rear diffs make them even worse. Torquey rear engine Porshes are always fastest on those turns.

Yes, you are correct in your thinking. Always spend the money on brakes first, harness second, then tires, then suspension, then power. It all goes hand in hand. You can't go fast if you can't stop. You can't be in control if you have no grip (same applies if your ass is sliding around in your seat!). You can't increase corner speeds if you have too much body roll. And finally, you'll be wanting more power to push around all that extra grip.
I will be doing the KO4 when I jump onto DOT slicks and they offer it with upgraded fueling and a cheaper price. I'm getting tired of being passed in the straights, and then being held up by the same A-holes in the turns. Damm WRX's and Caymens!

[Spidee]

swoardrider, I noticed the same thing at T-hill the other day. The car kicked down a gear when I came out of turn 11. It was unexpected but I already had the car straightened out. It helped getting out of the turn faster. Although I thought that kicking down a gear on its own like that seemed to put more strain on the tranny. It didn't happen too smoothly and more abrupt. Didn't try to do that anymore.

Anyway, I hope swoardrider gets a K04. I'd like for all of us to hear from him how fun and powerful that would be on a TIP car.

I've been working the wife to agree on me getting a different car. Since I have a loan already approved at the credit union, I'm exploring some type of high performance coupe. We'll see what happens, I still like my A4 too much.

[swoardrider]

Just go for a Lotus Exige S and be done with it!