would you guys consider giving up the RS3 for ....

[RudyH]

Here's the C&D comparison for the numbers, as I originally said the RS3 is faster, but only slightly for a big premium

Braking performance no bueno.

On the RS3 you have to upgrade intercooler to hold consistent power even at piggyback boost level

The top end power and drag results (theoretical maximum) the B58 is making more power and the car is beating the RS3 world record.

ya, I don't disagree, it's a very close match up...and the premium price makes you question the 8Y.5 RS3 and really the G42 M2 (until it gets xDrive really...)
From a person that enjoys tuning their cars, the 8Y.5 S3 and G42 M240i does make more sense then the upper end....I always stop at needing engine work to keep pushing, but once you have tuned and pushed so far, the car always seems to feel next level that you wouldn't want the factory upgrade option.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaFnQzdqdCM

video pitting the CT4 BW vs 8Y RS3 on the 'special tires' vs M4 CS...obviously the CS was quickest (and well Huracan)

[Heat00]

Shenanigans

The S3 gets absolutely destroyed in every metric by the M240 xdrive.

The ZF8 in BMW's is better than any of audi's transmissions or even audi's own implementation of the ZF8 which is really bad.

The B58 is the highest power potential engine on stock internals on the market available today. It's also the most reliable.

The RS3 is 190lb lighter than the M240, but has worse braking performance and equal drag performance. https://youtu.be/35N9ORo6RS4?t=278

Anyway, I didnt expect any audi fanboys to agree with me, but the RS3 doesnt even come close to any S58 powered cars and compares equally with the M240. Sad state of affairs for audi and why I don't own an RS3

I've only ever been an audi VW owner for many years, it took a lot to convince me that Audi wasnt bringing the best car for me to market anymore, but here I am pushed away from my favorite brand by ever weakening offerings.

ok I love everyone's opinion and comments as this is real world feedback on the next car I'm considering so it's much appreciated... and I understand your feeling about the bmw's, believe me, I have an m2 and now x3 at home... and the S58 as discussed here is wonderful... BUT, I don't know that it's fair to bash the RS3 either. remember, to get an s58 in sedan flavor (m3) is a LOT more money than an RS3, I don't care what anyone says just look online at pricing... and for the m2 s58 in comparison to the Rs3 (I currently own both 2024 MY's) is fair, they are the same price basically... but I wouldn't say the Rs3 doesn't hold a candle to it... it beat the current m2 on the track by a lot, is faster in the ultimate or benchmark for speed... 0-60 and standing 1/4 mile, sounds better stock for stock, and gives you real back seats and 4 doors... just saying... I'm not putting down the m2 in any way... earlier is this thread I admitted it does some things better... the overall "feel" and in my opinion the transmission's smoothness is not even close but as for actual data and performance it is right there with the s58 m2 if we're being fair. personally I like the true RWD or RWD biased systems a little better than the Rs3's FWD bias but that's just me. my only complaints of the RS3 are really the transmission (at low speed/normal daily) is very clunky and the FWD bias to me you can feel especially when pushed around a corner or something... it's not really "torque steer" and it's not terrible, maybe it's part phycological I don't know but sometimes it kind of feels as though the front wheels are at the limit of doing too much... these are MINOR complaints though, that I can and do live with : ) just trying to be unbiased in these opinions

[Heat00]

ya, I don't disagree, it's a very close match up...and the premium price makes you question the 8Y.5 RS3 and really the G42 M2 (until it gets xDrive really...)
From a person that enjoys tuning their cars, the 8Y.5 S3 and G42 M240i does make more sense then the upper end....I always stop at needing engine work to keep pushing, but once you have tuned and pushed so far, the car always seems to feel next level that you wouldn't want the factory upgrade option.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaFnQzdqdCM

video pitting the CT4 BW vs 8Y RS3 on the 'special tires' vs M4 CS...obviously the CS was quickest (and well Huracan)

I've watched this a few times actually lol... every car here seems and sounds amazing heheh... this is what is making my next decision so difficult

[IanCH]

B58 sounds great too ;)

https://youtu.be/urZSQ1rURw8 (My car)

The S58 can sound good, but its much harder to get right.

I love talking about this stuff and having a lively discussion, no hate and everyone gets their opinion.

[Heat00]

B58 sounds great too ;)

https://youtu.be/urZSQ1rURw8 (My car)

The S58 can sound good, but its much harder to get right.

I love talking about this stuff and having a lively discussion, no hate and everyone gets their opinion.

I will say, our 22 m340i was the best sounding car we've had in a long while... I had the M Performance Exhaust installed after we bought the car and I will admit, it sounded AMAZING. Certainly better than my OEM RS3 and M2, not even close. it was quiet while cruising, no drone, and at WOT it was insane and perfect. that is what is tempting me about getting a new M340 with the MPE port installed lol especially given it's less expensive than an RS3, M2, CT4, etc. by a good amount too. the money isn't the final deciding factor but it is important. I just built an M340i the way I want for about 62k, plus 2500 for MPE still below 65k. rs3 today is low to mid 70's from what I can tell so far. big difference in price.... and i'm not saying it's better or faster or anything, just saying its somewhat similar performance, great sound, slightly bigger/more comfy, and about 10k$ less. makes it an interesting debate that's all.

[9kracing]

The ZF8 in BMW's is better than any of audi's transmissions

No, it's not.

The DCT in the RS3 is superior in everyway

I'm glad you like your M240i, honestly, it's a fantastic car.

The RS3 beats it in literally every category though, I don't find those 2 cars comparable at all.

[Heat00]

to make this worse or more complicated, IF i was really going to add coupes or 2 door cars into this mix, I would add the Mustang DH lol....

[IanCH]

No, it's not.

The DCT in the RS3 is superior in everyway

I'm glad you like your M240i, honestly, it's a fantastic car.

The RS3 beats it in literally every category though, I don't find those 2 cars comparable at all.

What experiences do you have to support this? Anything to say otherwise than "no you're wrong!" LOL.

Ive owned stock and tuned DL501, DQ250 and DQ250 newer rev both with different tunes, and an audi tuned ZF8 that was a total dog.

The stock bmw zf8 tuning was far better than all of these and the xhp tuned zf8 blows all of them out of the water. Faster, more predictable, better power holding, no overheat...

If audi transmissions were more like their porsche counterparts your sentiment would be correct, but alas they are far from it.

[IanCH]

No, it's not.

The DCT in the RS3 is superior in everyway

I'm glad you like your M240i, honestly, it's a fantastic car.

The RS3 beats it in literally every category though, I don't find those 2 cars comparable at all.

I should also mention, that until audi put on the cheater trofeo R tires at C&D lightning lap, the m240 beat the rs3 in the test by a full second. The rs3 picked up nearly 10 seconds by putting on 60tw track tires.

Stock m240 with a catted downpipe and intake (no tune) dynoed at 427 whp today.

But SURELY they are not even comparable lmfao.

One thing is for sure, the awd g87 will demolish the rs3.

[Heat00]

I should also mention, that until audi put on the cheater trofeo R tires at C&D lightning lap, the m240 beat the rs3 in the test by a full second. The rs3 picked up nearly 10 seconds by putting on 60tw track tires.

Stock m240 with a catted downpipe and intake (no tune) dynoed at 427 whp today.

But SURELY they are not even comparable lmfao.

One thing is for sure, the awd g87 will demolish the rs3.

while I agree with your last statement, it still only has 2 doors : )

[IanCH]

The RS3 should compete with the M2, it should compete with the AWD M2, but thats my point. They've barely beaten the model below the M2 and if there wasn't exploitation of the definition of "stock tires" they wouldnt even have the ring time they have.

[9kracing]

What experiences do you have to support this? Anything to say otherwise than "no you're wrong!" LOL.

I own an M3, X3M, and the 8Y RS3.

Ive owned stock and tuned DL501, DQ250 and DQ250 newer rev both with different tunes, and an audi tuned ZF8 that was a total dog.

ok? Why are you talking about torque converter automatics? The 8Y DSG is superior to the ZF8. Period.

The stock bmw zf8 tuning was far better than all of these and the xhp tuned zf8 blows all of them out of the water. Faster, more predictable, better power holding, no overheat...

Do you have an XHP tuned ZF8?

My X3M is flashed with the M3 CS tranny, and yeah it's OK. I wouldn't call it "far better", as at the end of the day it's an automatic, and the DQ500 is a dual clutch. They're totally different animals.

[Heat00]

I own an M3, X3M, and the 8Y RS3.



ok? Why are you talking about torque converter automatics? The 8Y DSG is superior to the ZF8. Period.



Do you have an XHP tuned ZF8?

My X3M is flashed with the M3 CS tranny, and yeah it's OK. I wouldn't call it "far better", as at the end of the day it's an automatic, and the DQ500 is a dual clutch. They're totally different animals.

That’s a nice trifecta of aces in the garage ! I’m close and working on it lol. Dam m3 is just so expensive now

[IanCH]

I own an M3, X3M, and the 8Y RS3.



ok? Why are you talking about torque converter automatics? The 8Y DSG is superior to the ZF8. Period.



Do you have an XHP tuned ZF8?

My X3M is flashed with the M3 CS tranny, and yeah it's OK. I wouldn't call it "far better", as at the end of the day it's an automatic, and the DQ500 is a dual clutch. They're totally different animals.

They're not really different in practice, other thab the major reliability and consistency advantages the zf8 carries over the dual clutch offerings.

Im pretty experienced with dual clutch transmissions. I used to think they were the bees knees but then something better came along.

Yes I have an xhp tune on my zf8, and it turned a very good transmission into a great one with a ton of customization available. Very impressive that they give control over nearly everything within reason.

But let's hear it, how does the m240 not compare to the rs3? 3mph and 0.2 sec diff in the quarter, nearly identical circuit times on similar tires. Seems pretty comparable.

[S3DUDE]

Not talking about a blackwing

Talking about the m240 xdrive.

My loaded 2025 was 59k, all wheel drive, 6 cylinders and around 10k less than the rs3 option for option.

Nearly identical performance out of the box, with a slight edge to the audi. However we all know the performance can be equalized and with an equal total budget the m240 will be far faster. DQ500 and transverse layout isn't a plus, the zf8 with a proper tune makes dcts irrelevant.

Also the g42 is way better built than the rs3 since it shares a platform with the higher end cars instead of being built up from the econo line.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, great car(M240XI), I love it myself and tried to convinced my wife to get one in 2021 but she opted for the M235I with the 4 cylinder which was not a bad car but equivalent of a Audi S3. They had a M240I purple inside the showroom for similar price of the M240I, I was quiet upset about her purchase.

[S3DUDE]

right but there are none for sale below 80 that I've ever seen (ct4vbw). I would need auto and decent wheels and then you're pushing 80k or m3 pricing lol... what about the m340? that car gets no love around here but is cheaper than all of these.and not far behind in performance based on real world numbers.. just built one for 62k (65k with the MPE). 7k less than an rs3 and certainly less than a ct4... I'm seeing all the new rs3's on all these sites for sale and none are really below 73-74, some 77 LOL..that's getting crazy

Yes, hardly any base trim cars on the lots. The car sales managers normally order their allocations well loaded. Your best chance is getting them at the end of the month or any special sales, extra discounts(new student graduate, loyalty, military, Costco, USAA, etc) or hard negotiations on a car that has been on their sale lot for a while. But yes, I do agree, they are pricey. As per the M340, yes, I give it some love too, good car, sometimes you could be next to it on a traffic light and don't even know it that you have a serious fast car next to you. Well proven drivetrain layout/performance output.

[IanCH]

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, great car(M240XI), I love it myself and tried to convinced my wife to get one in 2021 but she opted for the M235I with the 4 cylinder which was not a bad car but equivalent of a Audi S3. They had a M240I purple inside the showroom for similar price of the M240I, I was quiet upset about her purchase.

Oh no, not the gran coupe. You guys coulda had it all!

BMW doing some weird stuff with the new version of that car. Nice seats in it though.

[S3DUDE]

Oh no, not the gran coupe. You guys coulda had it all!

BMW doing some weird stuff with the new version of that car. Nice seats in it though.

I know. It looked like a Kia Forte.

[Heat00]

Yes, hardly any base trim cars on the lots. The car sales managers normally order their allocations well loaded. Your best chance is getting them at the end of the month or any special sales, extra discounts(new student graduate, loyalty, military, Costco, USAA, etc) or hard negotiations on a car that has been on their sale lot for a while. But yes, I do agree, they are pricey. As per the M340, yes, I give it some love too, good car, sometimes you could be next to it on a traffic light and don't even know it that you have a serious fast car next to you. Well proven drivetrain layout/performance output.

I hear you but I just looked again and within a 4 hour drive radius it shows 8 available and not one below 94,000$ LOL.. and 7 of them are stock photos which likely means there isn't a car actually there, there is on "on the way" that is 100% accounted for. I have not seen an actual m3 available on a lot in south florida for a very long time, it doesn't exist. maybe it's the market I'm in but either way, to me, there is no way this car is worth 94k... I shouldn't say that, the market says it is, I'll re phrase that line... to me the value is not there. base price on an m3 MSRP with automatic which is comp, I believe is 76k or so but they are all in the mid 90's lol... and there is also not a single preowned one anywhere near here with low mileage below mid 80's. I think some people don't realize the market for these now is out of control and you can't just "get" one, especially anywhere near 76k lol. zero chance I would pay more than that, especially for my situation (high mileage) so I guess it's really not an option for me. 94k for a new m3 or 62k for a new m340, it's not 30k better to me.

[Heat00]

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, great car(M240XI), I love it myself and tried to convinced my wife to get one in 2021 but she opted for the M235I with the 4 cylinder which was not a bad car but equivalent of a Audi S3. They had a M240I purple inside the showroom for similar price of the M240I, I was quiet upset about her purchase.

lol... funny I've learned over the years also, to let the wife get what she wants not what I want LOL... luckily last week I got my wife the new X3 (not m50 version) but with the M sport package... I hated this car at first but once we saw and drove it in person, it's pretty nice actually. she's got nicer wheel/brake set up than I do LOL... I'll dig up a pic... and i'm kind of glad she didn't want or need the extra power as the m50 is a good 10-15k more than the x30.. got a sick deal on the x30, less than we paid for our last xc60 which I couldn't stand driving...

[Buckyoufuddy]

B58 engine not only has VANOS, biggest POC in automotive history, but *double* VANOS.

Big moneymaker for the stealership.

But the good news is, every car comes with a complimentary oil bottle bag in the trunk, for that extra oil you hafta carry with you.

[IanCH]

4500 miles and hasn't burned a drop of oil.

B58 Gen 2 is one of if not the most reliable performance engines sold in cars today.

[Buckyoufuddy]

4500 miles and hasn't burned a drop of oil.

B58 Gen 2 is one of if not the most reliable performance engines sold in cars today.

I hope it works out for you.

Didn't for me.

[IanCH]

I hope it works out for you.

Didn't for me.

You gonna actually post something relevant or just tell me a story about how your used bmw with a different engine was messed up? Lol

What car did you have? How many miles before you owned it? How many miles when you had a problem.

People love to tell fake stories.

[Crowlski]

I hope it works out for you.

Didn't for me.

Sorry to hear of your issues. The B58 and the S variant are very reliable engines. The generations before had water leaks and oil leaks. But ANY singular automobile can have one-off issues. I've have numerous so-called maintenance nightmare autos labeled that by the likes of Consumer Reports and other "experts" and never had those issues they claimed highly likely to occur. As far as the RS3 is concerned, I've owned an 8.5V and an 8Y. Neither had any issues some claim were going to happen like water pump failure, etc. So it is what it is. What happens to your car is not always going to happen to others. If you take good care of it from the beginning and know who the previous owner was then your shot of a owning a good car goes up.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Crowlski]

B58 engine not only has VANOS, biggest POC in automotive history, but *double* VANOS.

Big moneymaker for the stealership.

But the good news is, every car comes with a complimentary oil bottle bag in the trunk, for that extra oil you hafta carry with you.

Bro you're wrong. I believe you are thinking of the N variant. The B58 has a lower ceiling when tuned vs the S58 Engine. But to claim "biggest POC" is just nonsense.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Audizine Forum mobile app

[IanCH]

B58 holds the record for 1/4 mile, over s58. Just saying.

But yes on stock turbo s58 is making more power than b58

[Crowlski]

B58 holds the record for 1/4 mile, over s58. Just saying.

But yes on stock turbo s58 is making more power than b58

Maybe so. I contribute that moreso to the total setup than just the engine. But your point is well taken.

Sent from my SM-N981U using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Heat00]

I would disagree with the b58 being a pos lol... come on... this may be an audi site with audi owners but I've owned 2 b58's.. one for 50,000 miles that I bought with 5,000 and it was perfect.. then a new one in m x3m40 that was great for 30k also. if you want to say my 2008 m3 had oil issues, sure I would agree as it did but those days are long gone.

the b58 is very highly rated not only in reliability, but power, efficiency, and smoothness. it's actually a very impressive motor. under rated horse power and silky smooth. That being, I love our S58 even better but that's just the speed demon in me lol...

the M340 is certainly on my list for the next car and it's primarily because of it's motor and performance vs pricing and value.

[Buckyoufuddy]

The POC refers ta the VANOS, not the entire model line.

But, they all have VANOS, it seems.

Google the problems, they exist ta this day.

VANOS gets past the warranty, then it is a problem child.

Indy shops don't want ta estimate the repair, because it can be anything from a solenoid to a full teardown.

So, you're stuck with the stealership, which charges for the whole hog and hopes ta bring it in under that, not that they would refund anything.

BMW owner's manual reads: "All BMW engines (excluding Motorsport) can consume up to 1 quart of engine oil per 750 miles at any time. Due to the increased engine power, all Motorsport engines can consume up to 2.5 quarts of engine oil per 1,000 miles at any time."

Fanboy Ian, feel free ta think of me ever time ya add oil.

[konaforever]

What's worse in the DCT in the RS3? I only use it in manual mode and it seems pretty quick and crisp. Doesn't seem any much worse than the PDK in my GT3.

[Jetdriver]

A 911 Carrera T-hybrid. Probably nothing in between.

[IanCH]

The POC refers ta the VANOS, not the entire model line.

But, they all have VANOS, it seems.

Google the problems, they exist ta this day.

VANOS gets past the warranty, then it is a problem child.

Indy shops don't want ta estimate the repair, because it can be anything from a solenoid to a full teardown.

So, you're stuck with the stealership, which charges for the whole hog and hopes ta bring it in under that, not that they would refund anything.

BMW owner's manual reads: "All BMW engines (excluding Motorsport) can consume up to 1 quart of engine oil per 750 miles at any time. Due to the increased engine power, all Motorsport engines can consume up to 2.5 quarts of engine oil per 1,000 miles at any time."

Fanboy Ian, feel free ta think of me ever time ya add oil.

Still refuse to tell us that you had a used high mileage gen 1 b58 (guess but probably right)

Sucks to drive a poorly cared for used car. Your problem not mine.

You can call me a fanboy but I've owned more audis than you bucko

[Buckyoufuddy]

Still refuse to tell us that you had a used high mileage gen 1 b58 (guess but probably right)

Sucks to drive a poorly cared for used car. Your problem not mine.

You can call me a fanboy but I've owned more audis than you bucko

How many Audis have I owned?

[IanCH]

How many Audis have I owned?

According to this forum 2 lol. But you are just a troll so who knows. Maybe you haven't owned any.

[Buckyoufuddy]

Guess again.

While you're cogitating the possibilities, maybe you can also attempt to reason out why BMW has to put the oil consumption possibilities into its owner's manual.

[IanCH]

Still not telling the whole story.

Enjoy driving trashed used cars, like I said, not my problem.

[Buckyoufuddy]

https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...oblem.1306775/ BTDT.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1553443 BTDT.

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1919469 Not goin there.

[IanCH]

Literally not one of those examples is a b58 gen 2

And the only b58 is highly tuned running ethanol.

Try again hater.

[Buckyoufuddy]

Every engine with VANOS, and every generation, has had issues so far.

Obviously, not all the cars produced had the problem, and online forums overrepresent some issues.

It would be smart to lease these models, and avoid the problem, but I drive too many miles for that.

I'm hoping the one you have has no VANOS problems.