IE v. APR v. 034 v. Unitronic

[ibmman69]

I currently have the IE Stage 1 tune installed (their support is great BTW).

I don't feel much, if any, difference from takeoff w/ the IE tune.

Looking at the HP charts it seems APR and 034 seem to be the only ones that claim a real increase over stock in the lower RPM ranges.

I've searched the forums, and haven't seen anyone w/ a side-by-side comparison with any combo of these.

I do not plan to do any other mod, except maybe Stage 2 TCU, with any of these. I'm not a racer, and won't go to the track. Just driving around town, and on the interstate.

Anyone have any experiences or thoughts to add? I want to get the most bang for my buck, and I'm still within the return window for IE, so if there's a consensus to try something different I might just do that.

I've attached the charts for ease of comparison. They are all WHP except the Uni chart. The IE chart starts at 1700RPM even though it isn't listed on there. 1700RPM is the first datapoint.

Left to Right 034, APR, IE, and Uni.

034 Stage 1 WHP.jpgAPR S1 WHP.jpgIE Stage 1 WHP.pngUni Stage 1 CHP.jpg

[H3llraisa]

Aloha
I have the IE Stage 2 with the CTS catted downpipe and love it. So far no problems and yes the customer support with IE been on point. Im just like you dont race or anything but love the pick ups and the sound. Also with the stage 2 trans tune is awesome. Shifts good and fast. Only problem i have is my sq5 surges like a missfire but before the tune. Still doing it now that i cant figure out. No codes or anything. I think its my CTS intake pipe. But thats another post. Lol.


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[jlaudio]

Hard to tell differences using those charts since IE doesn't have the RPM scale on the X axis on their graph where the others do. Butt dyno tells me it's much quicker. Also note the overall trend when there are HP gains above 1800-2k RPM. After tuning stage 1 it doesn't seem like you are really in the power band until 3k and when you have full boost. Outside of highway on-ramps I can probably count on 1 hand how many times a week the car is driving around north of 3k rpm.

The other thing I noticed is much more of the city driving is all motor, no turbo. Watching the boost gauge I'm not even building boost pulling away from stoplights the majority of the time, when running in Auto mode.

[ibmman69]

I agree. It's hard to compare these charts across brands. It's also not clear to me whether these numbers are an otherwise stock car. I don't mind spending the money on an ECU tune, and TCU tune, if it gives me what I want. I'm a little underwhelmed with the pickup on the car right out of the gate. After that is great. Not something I noticed test driving, but driving it every day for the past 2 months or so I've noticed.

Hard to tell differences using those charts since IE doesn't have the RPM scale on the X axis on their graph where the others do. Butt dyno tells me it's much quicker. Also note the overall trend when there are HP gains above 1800-2k RPM. After tuning stage 1 it doesn't seem like you are really in the power band until 3k and when you have full boost. Outside of highway on-ramps I can probably count on 1 hand how many times a week the car is driving around north of 3k rpm.

The other thing I noticed is much more of the city driving is all motor, no turbo. Watching the boost gauge I'm not even building boost pulling away from stoplights the majority of the time, when running in Auto mode.

[Hostile]

I agree. It's hard to compare these charts across brands. It's also not clear to me whether these numbers are an otherwise stock car. I don't mind spending the money on an ECU tune, and TCU tune, if it gives me what I want. I'm a little underwhelmed with the pickup on the car right out of the gate. After that is great. Not something I noticed test driving, but driving it every day for the past 2 months or so I've noticed.

034's Stage 1 charts are always with stock hardware. They only publish numbers with hardware upgrades if the tune requires it.

[ibmman69]

How do you find the time on the Golf?

034's Stage 1 charts are always with stock hardware. They only publish numbers with hardware upgrades if the tune requires it.

[Hostile]

How do you find the time on the Golf?

The tune? Very happy with it. The car is tiny beast.

[GoCougs1234]

What do you mean by "take off" exactly? Launch control? Rolling start? General lag? Or? Either way, here are my musings:

Never never never never never never never never never never EVER drive in D mode. Anything other than Dynamic and either S or M mode is a fairly miserable experience (if you're driving in D mode, that's your problem, esp. tuned, since in general tuning = more boost = more lag (though very slight IME for stage 1).

I chose APR after my experience with the other tuners mentioned (tech support, buying hardware), plus APR's smog compliance (both stage 1 and stage 3). I couldn't be happier overall with APR.

I was APR stage 1 (91 octane) for ~40,000 miles. IME the mid range punch and response was hugely improved over stock (not the same as less lag - there will be more lag since there's more boost but more aggressive throttle mapping and the huge jump in power will offset this).

The response difference between 91 and 93 octane tunes is noticeable as the 91 tune really pulls timing in the lower RPMs (not sure if you were swapping back and forth?)

I wouldn't get hung up on dyno curves esp. at the lower RPMs. You're only at 3,000 RPM and below if you choose to be (such as super short shifting in M mode).

Do an OBD-II scan. When I was first stage 1, I'd bought the exhaust flap disable thingy so I could lock the flap open permanently. However, the ECU couldn't determine the state of the flap so it would pull power as a precaution (if the flap is closed at WOT the cat will overheat). I was slower than stock. I only got a DTC (something about the exhaust flap) but never a CEL.

I don't know the inner workings of all these tunes, but given that each tuner has to work with the same hardware, safety margins and fuel choices, performance of stage 1 across these tuners will vary little. If you're underwhelmed with IE, it will be same will be with others quite likely. My hunch though is that something else is going on if you're underwhelmed. You should be legit blow away TBH with a stage 1 tune in both feel and hard performance numbers.

[TheContrarian]

I think you have expectations of V8 torque off idle and you're never going to get that with a turbo V6. It takes time to spool. The other issue is throttle mapping which is deadened in D mode.

That being said, I'm quite happy with the throttle response from a stop with a 93 octane tune. My SQ5 has considerably better immediate thrust than my RS3.

[ibmman69]

By takeoff I mean from a red light, totally stopped.

I do run it in D. I'll put it in S and see what happens.

I checked codes. No issues.

I'm new to turbos, so maybe my expectations are out of whack with reality as at least one person said. Once the car hits 3rd it's off to the races. It's the 2 before that bugging me.

034 got back to me. They have free returns too. Maybe I'll try them. I still have time to return the IE tune if the 034 works better.

APR hasn't responded to me yet.

Point taken on the same equipment across tuners.

Thank you for the thorough response. I appreciate the feedback.

What do you mean by "take off" exactly? Launch control? Rolling start? General lag? Or? Either way, here are my musings:

Never never never never never never never never never never EVER drive in D mode. Anything other than Dynamic and either S or M mode is a fairly miserable experience (if you're driving in D mode, that's your problem, esp. tuned, since in general tuning = more boost = more lag (though very slight IME for stage 1).

I chose APR after my experience with the other tuners mentioned (tech support, buying hardware), plus APR's smog compliance (both stage 1 and stage 3). I couldn't be happier overall with APR.

I was APR stage 1 (91 octane) for ~40,000 miles. IME the mid range punch and response was hugely improved over stock (not the same as less lag - there will be more lag since there's more boost but more aggressive throttle mapping and the huge jump in power will offset this).

The response difference between 91 and 93 octane tunes is noticeable as the 91 tune really pulls timing in the lower RPMs (not sure if you were swapping back and forth?)

I wouldn't get hung up on dyno curves esp. at the lower RPMs. You're only at 3,000 RPM and below if you choose to be (such as super short shifting in M mode).

Do an OBD-II scan. When I was first stage 1, I'd bought the exhaust flap disable thingy so I could lock the flap open permanently. However, the ECU couldn't determine the state of the flap so it would pull power as a precaution (if the flap is closed at WOT the cat will overheat). I was slower than stock. I only got a DTC (something about the exhaust flap) but never a CEL.

I don't know the inner workings of all these tunes, but given that each tuner has to work with the same hardware, safety margins and fuel choices, performance of stage 1 across these tuners will vary little. If you're underwhelmed with IE, it will be same will be with others quite likely. My hunch though is that something else is going on if you're underwhelmed. You should be legit blow away TBH with a stage 1 tune in both feel and hard performance numbers.

[ibmman69]

Also, since you have experience with tunes, do you think a TCU tune would address any of my concerns?

[jlaudio]

Also, since you have experience with tunes, do you think a TCU tune would address any of my concerns?

TCU tunes make a sizeable difference on the B9 SQ5. Certain 2022 - current SQ5 transmission modules are locked and not tunable, give your VIN to the tuner before ordering.

[GoCougs1234]

Also, since you have experience with tunes, do you think a TCU tune would address any of my concerns?

Oh, it's most definitely driving in D - just flatfooting it (i.e., not using launch control/not brake torquing) from a stop in D is awful. S will be much better but any turbocharged car will be sorta pokey when flatfooted from a stop, even the twin/big turbo stuff like the M3 or RS cars.

IMO a turbo dyno chart only tells about 70% of the story. What looks like gobs of low-end power means much less IRL when there is turbo lag.

IME the TCU tune did not improve throttle response - firmer shifts, quicker (though more jarring) downshifts, higher red line (depending), etc., sure, but same turbo lag.

[ibmman69]

I watched a few of the 034 videos last night. What they discussed is exactly what I want, driveability. I don't care about peak horsepower. I also read a long review here I found pretty helpful:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...on-drivability

I think I'm gonna give the 034 a try after I put the car in sport later today. Really no reason not to with the option for a full refund.

Oh, it's most definitely driving in D - just flatfooting it (i.e., not using launch control/not brake torquing) from a stop in D is awful. S will be much better but any turbocharged car will be sorta pokey when flatfooted from a stop, even the twin/big turbo stuff like the M3 or RS cars.

IMO a turbo dyno chart only tells about 70% of the story. What looks like gobs of low-end power means much less IRL when there is turbo lag.

IME the TCU tune did not improve throttle response - firmer shifts, quicker (though more jarring) downshifts, higher red line (depending), etc., sure, but same turbo lag.

[ibmman69]

I put it in S today. What a world of difference that makes. Wow. It was amazing to go back and forth from light to light switching between the modes. As I said, I've never owned a turbo car before, but man this is how it should perform in D from the factory. I've never needed to use the sport mode on other cars. The lack of imagination in D is incredible compared to S.

Once I receive the 034 tune I'll report back.

[GoCougs1234]

I've said before and I'll keep saying for as long as I own the vehicle: D is absolutely criminal in its uselessness - if you pay close attention (or, enable gear display via OBD-II), plenty of times it starts in 2nd gear from a standstill FFS.

[Hostile]

I do run it in D. I'll put it in S and see what happens.

For the love of the baby Jesus put the car into S.

[ibmman69]

I ordered the 034 ECU and TCU tune this morning. After I ordered I realized there's a shop on the other side of the county that installs them. I probably could've just called them, but then I wouldn't be able to flash back whenever I want.

I went on a short drive earlier and noticed that even in D if you put your foot down, it'll go.

I've also done the mod where you can see the gear selection. I'll be interested to see how the TCU tune changes that.

I'm just not used to using the pedal so hard, so part of the problem is probably me.

Similar to the auto off function, I'd rather not have to put the car in S mode every time I get in the car.

This is my first Audi S or BMW M type car, but even my 20yo BMW has much better throttle response than this thing off the line, and I've never put it in sport mode, I don't think.

Do not get me wrong, I love the car. Just want something a little extra off the line. I love the comfort, ride height, power once you get going, etc.

I thought the SQ7 was too much of a boat. Anyone else agree w/ me on that? Is the SQ8 any better?

For the love of the baby Jesus put the car into S.

[GoCougs1234]

All turbocharged vehicles have lag, and generally, the more boost/power, the more the lag. Automakers are now starting in with mild hybrid functionality (see new M5) to mitigate lag complaints.

The SQ5 is heavy - a loaded Prestige (with air suspension, Sport Diff and trailer hitch receiver) is ~4,600 lbs, so that will mos def detract from response.

A 20-year-old BMW is very likely normally aspirated. I recently drove my parents' new-ish Outback - it felt like a sport bike in its response. Literally 10x better even with just 180 hp and a CVT.

Both the Q7 and Q8 platforms are GINORMOUS I felt. Even the A6 platform is huge. All three are too big for me and all three will have lag.

This is my first turbocharged car as well. TBH, I'm not a much of a fan but virtually all vehicles these days are turbocharged (even most 911s, which is a real shame), so there's really no choice.

My choice precisely due to lag free power delivery = positive displacement supercharging but they're too expensive so most automakers dumped them.

[ibmman69]

Mine is a Prestige too with all those same features. I'm sure the weight is some of it.

My BMW is just an old straight 6.

The 034 programmer shipped today. I paid for 2 day shipping. Maybe by some miracle it will get here tomorrow, but I doubt it; Probably Monday.

APR finally got back to me today, right after I ordered the 034 tune, and pretty much said nothing will change much w/ any of them below 2300.

I thought the same thing about the SQ7. I wasn't impressed w/ the performance of it either even w/ the V8. I was really surprised when I first drove one.

We'll see how things go.

All turbocharged vehicles have lag, and generally, the more boost/power, the more the lag. Automakers are now starting in with mild hybrid functionality (see new M5) to mitigate lag complaints.

The SQ5 is heavy - a loaded Prestige (with air suspension, Sport Diff and trailer hitch receiver) is ~4,600 lbs, so that will mos def detract from response.

A 20-year-old BMW is very likely normally aspirated. I recently drove my parents' new-ish Outback - it felt like a sport bike in its response. Literally 10x better even with just 180 hp and a CVT.

Both the Q7 and Q8 platforms are GINORMOUS I felt. Even the A6 platform is huge. All three are too big for me and all three will have lag.

This is my first turbocharged car as well. TBH, I'm not a much of a fan but virtually all vehicles these days are turbocharged (even most 911s, which is a real shame), so there's really no choice.

My choice precisely due to lag free power delivery = positive displacement supercharging but they're too expensive so most automakers dumped them.

[ibmman69]

I want to update my post w/ first impressions for the 034 tune.

FIRST - The 034 install software is much more slick, and faster than the IE software, running on the exact same laptop about an hour apart. The other thing that was interesting is 034 made me upgrade the ECU to the latest factory software before it would allow me to install their tune. IE did not require this. I have not tried the 034 phone app. I did use the IE phone app on my first install, and thought it was stuck several times.

Second - I bought the trans tune from 034, but only installed the free trans tune so far. I wanted a true comparison as much as possible to IE since I didn't buy their trans tune.

I drove the car after I flashed back to stock, and could tell a slight difference between IE and stock, but not a ton.

I have only driven about 6 miles w/ the 034 tune so far from light to light, and I'll say I cannot tell a difference between 034 and the IE tune. This is esp true for my desire for more power off the line. They both feel about the same.

Over the last several days I have become more accustomed to driving the car, and how much throttle I have to give it to receive the power response I want. It's a lot more pedal than I was used to giving off the line. I am a lot more pleased w/ the takeoff of the car over the last several days w/ the IE tune than I was initially. That's all to say, some of my dissatisfaction with the car initially was me, and not the car or the tune.

I plan to drive the tune more tomorrow, and see if I can see any major difference between 034 and IE.

After I've tested it some more without the stage 2 trans tune, I will take is to flash that, and see what difference it makes.

Overall, I'm not thrilled or displeased w/ 034 v. IE. 034 has the edge right now solely on the install software side, and not anything to do with performance.

[GoCougs1234]

I've done some driving at 8,000-9,000 feet. You ain't felt lag till you're driving big boost at that altitude. It was so poor I don't think I'd let a normie drive the vehicle - it was sorta dangerous pulling out into highway traffic. (I will say, an R8 was hassling me and he got gap'd a bit - lag is atrocious but she'll still make the power eventually!) But yeah, turbocharging isn't the magic cure it's portrayed to be - there are big compromises that we're stuck with for the foreseeable future.

[jlaudio]

I've done some driving at 8,000-9,000 feet. You ain't felt lag till you're driving big boost at that altitude. It was so poor I don't think I'd let a normie drive the vehicle - it was sorta dangerous pulling out into highway traffic. (I will say, an R8 was hassling me and he got gap'd a bit - lag is atrocious but she'll still make the power eventually!) But yeah, turbocharging isn't the magic cure it's portrayed to be - there are big compromises that we're stuck with for the foreseeable future.

I just Stage 3, Pure 750 Turbo'd on Friday and drove up to Park City to see what it's legs are like and 8k+ elevation has a huge impact. Everything is a little bit slooooower. Still good fun and nice views though.

[GoCougs1234]

I just Stage 3, Pure 750 Turbo'd on Friday and drove up to Park City to see what it's legs are like and 8k+ elevation has a huge impact. Everything is a little bit slooooower. Still good fun and nice views though.

I spend time in Lake Tahoe. There are some highway intersections (and not onramps) at upper elevations - you come to a stop and then gotta get up to 55+ mph, sometimes crossing lanes, right quick to merge (esp. with weekend traffic). I actually had to brake torque to feel comfortable doing so.

[JBAeroEngineer]

Similar to the auto off function, I'd rather not have to put the car in S mode every time I get in the car.

I have the 034 ecu/TCU tune on my a4. If you’re in dynamic drive mode it’ll start the car in S or D, wherever you left it. Auto start/stop also remains on or off, with the 034 tune, FYI

[GoCougs1234]

FWIW, at least for the S vehicles, the vehicle is truly not in S mode until you shift in/out of S mode each time you start the vehicle. Why Audi does this (i.e., S can lie to you) I have no idea.

[turbo_911]

Why my car feels a lot torquey in D than in S? I am Stage 2.

My friend that has tuned RS3 said the same thing. Anyone else experience this?

[ibmman69]

UPDATE after about a week w/ the 034 ECU and TCU tune:

The car is more responsive in D. In D I don't really notice a ton of change after the TCU tune. As I've said previously, some of the change is probably me getting used to how to use the throttle in the car.

In S it is a much, much different car, but it's also a much different car stock in S than D.

I don't think you could really tell a huge difference unless you had 3 cars in all different states, and drove them back to back. Maybe even a blind test on the same course. Even then, I don't know that someone who isn't a competitive driver could tell the difference.

That said, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison to IE since the car was brand new to me, and I've had a lot more time to learn the car w/ the 034 tune.

Overall, I'm happy w/ the tune. I think it's money well spent. I still have another 2 weeks or so to decide on the 034 tune. I may flash it back to stock, and go for another comparison.

I can't underscore enough how much better the 034 software for Windows is than the IE software for Windows. It is night and day. The logging in the 034 iPhone app is better too. IE logging on iPhone only works at 50% throttle and above.

I'm now looking to maybe add an intake.

Happy to answer any quesitons.

[turbo_911]

UPDATE after about a week w/ the 034 ECU and TCU tune:

The car is more responsive in D. In D I don't really notice a ton of change after the TCU tune. As I've said previously, some of the change is probably me getting used to how to use the throttle in the car.

In S it is a much, much different car, but it's also a much different car stock in S than D.

I don't think you could really tell a huge difference unless you had 3 cars in all different states, and drove them back to back. Maybe even a blind test on the same course. Even then, I don't know that someone who isn't a competitive driver could tell the difference.

That said, I'm not sure it's a fair comparison to IE since the car was brand new to me, and I've had a lot more time to learn the car w/ the 034 tune.

Overall, I'm happy w/ the tune. I think it's money well spent. I still have another 2 weeks or so to decide on the 034 tune. I may flash it back to stock, and go for another comparison.

I can't underscore enough how much better the 034 software for Windows is than the IE software for Windows. It is night and day. The logging in the 034 iPhone app is better too. IE logging on iPhone only works at 50% throttle and above.

I'm now looking to maybe add an intake.

Happy to answer any quesitons.

Did you get Stage 1 or 2 TCU tune?

[ibmman69]

Did you get Stage 1 or 2 TCU tune?

Stage 1. It's the only mod on the car so far.