looking to do a k04 swap. Look over my parts list please

[04lss]

Hi all,

A few years back, I sold an A6 2.7t (6speed) to a family member. They just gave it back to me. The car has factory turbos, 550cc injectors and an e85 tune. I am planning to upgrade to Ko4s. I have about 6k for the project overall, but would rather not spend it all.

Below is the list of parts ive put together, please let me know what im missing:


CX racing ko4 turbos (friend has a new set in box after they decided on Big turbos)
xs power Side mount rs4 style intercoolers
xs power MAF housing
Revin Short shifter
Bosch 950cc injectors
southbend stage 3 daily clutch
034 IC hose set
New spark plugs
New coils
Clevite.mahle turbo gasket set
H&R rear swaybar
Motoza Tune upgrade from k03 to K04
Misc tools 200
Of course i plan to change the oil etc. I want to keep some cash in reserve for unforeseen things. My experience with Audi says they will always show up.

Question is, will the factory intake piping work, or do I need new intake piping in addition to the IC piping? What am i missign in this list. Im sure there's something.

[CELison]

Turbos- Chinese, will most likely blow, if not for sure have wastegate issues in a short amount of time
ICs- Arguably worse than stock
Maf- Maf housing is a maf housing, but you will need to address how it's connecting to the airbox and Y pipe
Injectors- Never heard of 950s but that's plenty
Clutch- SB is good, but RR may be cheaper? And their beefier ones drive great and hold tons of power
IC hoses- Not needed. Stock hoses are just fine and probably more robust
Tune- I would look at Brad or Blake for tuning.

Just my take on the big things in your list.

[04lss]

Turbos- Chinese, will most likely blow, if not for sure have wastegate issues in a short amount of time
ICs- Arguably worse than stock
Maf- Maf housing is a maf housing, but you will need to address how it's connecting to the airbox and Y pipe
Injectors- Never heard of 950s but that's plenty
Clutch- SB is good, but RR may be cheaper? And their beefier ones drive great and hold tons of power
IC hoses- Not needed. Stock hoses are just fine and probably more robust
Tune- I would look at Brad or Blake for tuning.

Just my take on the big things in your list.

Thanks for the input. The main reason i am looking at the Motoza stuff is that I already have their tune, its like 200 bucks to upgrade vs say a grand.

What would the IC recommendation be?
Noted on the MAF connection, friend sent me a part number he used for an adapter.

On the clutch what does RR stand for> Havent heard of them but happy to save money

[04lss]

I should also note this is 100% a project car. I have 2 cars that I daily drive.

[04lss]

Looking at the frankenturbos, they note 550cc injectors, does that mean the 550 bosh injectors i already have would work with the frankenturbos? I figured the Frankens would need more fueling than the stock k04s.

[CELison]

Thanks for the input. The main reason i am looking at the Motoza stuff is that I already have their tune, its like 200 bucks to upgrade vs say a grand.

What would the IC recommendation be?
Noted on the MAF connection, friend sent me a part number he used for an adapter.

On the clutch what does RR stand for> Havent heard of them but happy to save money

I think Blake and Brad both charge ~$400 for custom tuning. For ICs- ER, SRM, Wagner, AMD. Can’t go wrong with any of them. RR is Ringer Racing. Very streetable and reliable single disk, full face clutches.

[TwoSnelz]

Cel knows and has given solid advice.

I would like to add that most of XS Powers stuff is not great, there is data out there to back up Cels claim that their ICs flow terribly. Even if they do make decent cheap exhaust, I have their Ypipe and hate it as it does not mount to the intake manifold without custom setup. Their one piece bipipe also didnt fit right. The last time i order from them, i ordered resonators on mid pipes and received straight pipes.

I wouldnt mess with them because of my experiences.

I run FTs and I rate them higher than China K04s but barely, id save and buy something proper since its a project. PO bought them, I didnt. Wastegate issues have me trying Mamba wastegate actuators.

034 hoses look nice but the turbo outlet hose that isnt a straight coupler fits like shit on my FTs. Maybe its just me.

I would def budget for oil feed lines, oil drain lines, possibly wastegate lines for piece of mind. You will need a thick copper washer on one of the oil feeds for turbo, some install kits dont give this and youll get a leak. I think its driverside.

Consider cv condition. Consider transmission condition on crossrod/shifter rods, my shift bushing was shot.

If you are buying that clutch you will want to make sure trans input seal and rear main seal arent leaking.

Does that clutch come with a flywheel?

Start an Excel document and put the car fully together in your head/follow a guide if u cant. Anything you think might need attention notate in the document, investigate before u start if possible, fire cash cannon, repeat lol

You can slide into while im in theres easily, the excel sheet helped me budget and spend money where it made the most sense. Cant service everything with engine in the car you know.

I made 6k go pretty far but it gets expensive quick lol.

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[04lss]

I found out the RR clutch stage 3+ and talked to Mike over there. It’s cheaper and holds more torque so win win
I know the axles are good. I plan to service the trans and diff, and replace any seals while the engine is oht


Friend of mine has I think a jhm fmic he said I can have.

I’m not sure what to do on the turbo front. I’m hoping not to spend over 6k.

[CELison]

Skip a front mount. They don’t work well, have a bunch of couplers that can leak, and you have to chop the hell out of your bumper to make it fit. Even then your fog lights won’t fit. A nice B5 S4 bumper is worth a lot now, well over $1k. If yours is in decent condition don’t destroy it with a fmic, you can’t buy new ones any longer so they’ll just keep getting more rare and expensive.

[TwoSnelz]

Yep, mine got axed up. The first mod I technically did was a new set of side mounts to replace the "JHM frontmount" which was probably ebay garbage lol

Someone had made the bumper cuts while it was on the car, nicked the piping in a few spots. Was a nobrainer but the side mounts are superior in my opinion.

I got some AWEs but my bumper is still missing things on the inside and now they are unobtainable. Let alone in cactus.

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[04lss]

Skip a front mount. They don’t work well, have a bunch of couplers that can leak, and you have to chop the hell out of your bumper to make it fit. Even then your fog lights won’t fit. A nice B5 S4 bumper is worth a lot now, well over $1k. If yours is in decent condition don’t destroy it with a fmic, you can’t buy new ones any longer so they’ll just keep getting more rare and expensive.

Im in a c5, a6, Im just here because this forum has more activity IMO. But good to know.

- - - Updated - - -

What are the general feelings on the JHM RS6 RS turbos? With the current sale, i think i can make it work.

[CELison]

Ah ok. I would still do side mounts if you can swing it. The JHM turbos have been pretty reliable. May want to just swap out the wastegates for Tial, Turbosmart or Mambas. Even then the flapper and arm can be an issue. The downfall of most Chinese turbos is the wastegates. I had FH4s, F21, and K24s. Wastegate failure of some sort on all of them before I put tials on.

[04lss]

Ah ok. I would still do side mounts if you can swing it. The JHM turbos have been pretty reliable. May want to just swap out the wastegates for Tial, Turbosmart or Mambas. Even then the flapper and arm can be an issue. The downfall of most Chinese turbos is the wastegates. I had FH4s, F21, and K24s. Wastegate failure of some sort on all of them before I put tials on.

are the JHM considered chinese turbos? Sorry for some basic questions. ive spent the last 4 years in b8 s4 world with superchargers.

I think my goal for now is going to be the JHM turbos with factory piping, and the 550cc injectors i already have.

Later on i can easily upgrade to higher flow injectors once the rest of the car is in a stat to support more power. Ultimate (No time soon)n id like to build an engine with rods, pistons and 2.8 heads and aim for 650 whp. For now my goal is just 400-450.

[TwoSnelz]

Welcome to the Thunderdome.

Next thing you know youll have a spare engine in the garage and a basement full of parts lol.

I looked at the JHMs as well but decided to just rerun my F21s and build an engine with the money.

I have to find a shell eventually or a better engine will go in my car.

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[04lss]

Welcome to the Thunderdome.

Next thing you know youll have a spare engine in the garage and a basement full of parts lol.

I looked at the JHMs as well but decided to just rerun my F21s and build an engine with the money.

I have to find a shell eventually or a better engine will go in my car.

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I am flipping between the f21s and the JHM. The money saved for the f21s over trying to run the JHM gives me a much healthier margin if i find out I need parts once I get into the project. If i am probably going to pull the engine again in a 2 years for a built one anyway ... i figure i can probably make the f21 last that long, but id love input.

[CELison]

For a stock motor, go with the F21s. Any RS6 sized turbo you really need rods and E85 to have fun.

[04lss]

For a stock motor, go with the F21s. Any RS6 sized turbo you really need rods and E85 to have fun.

Thanks! Solves my turbo questions.
You mentioned some tuners earlier are they forum members or vendors?

[zipdoa]

If you're on a budget:

Motoza tune - $500ish
Reman or New K04-025 and K04-026 by Rotomaster $1000ish, Rotomaster makes a quality turbo
S6 airbox - easy to find used and is basically a B5 RS4 airbox
ProjectB5 Drop-in 450/85 fuel pump kit
OEM RS4 MAF Accordion (VAICO V10-3500) - $60
XS Power or equivalent inlets - $150
XS Power downpipes $200
B7 RS4 LuK Clutch Kit $150
TTV Flywheel for B7/B5 $350
Bosch 965cc Injectors (0280158040) $267 @ cars245.com
Bosch B5 RS4 MAF (BOSCH 0280218067) - check eBay for deals on new ones, I paid $100
Wagner S4 Intercoolers, no shrouds - got mine for $600 on autoplicity a couple years ago
Lobster claws - 034 or find used OEM's
y-pipe - whatever B5 RS4 replica is least expensive

gaskets, seals, washers, o-rings - you can find OE equivalents on rockauto if you search by part number. Dig through parts diagrams and make sure you get little things like the turbo o-rings for the inlets, washers and gaskets for turbo feed/drain fittings, etc

[04lss]

If you're on a budget:

Motoza tune - $500ish
Reman or New K04-025 and K04-026 by Rotomaster $1000ish, Rotomaster makes a quality turbo
S6 airbox - easy to find used and is basically a B5 RS4 airbox
ProjectB5 Drop-in 450/85 fuel pump kit
OEM RS4 MAF Accordion (VAICO V10-3500) - $60
XS Power or equivalent inlets - $150
XS Power downpipes $200
B7 RS4 LuK Clutch Kit $150
TTV Flywheel for B7/B5 $350
Bosch 965cc Injectors (0280158040) $267 @ cars245.com
Bosch B5 RS4 MAF (BOSCH 0280218067) - check eBay for deals on new ones, I paid $100
Wagner S4 Intercoolers, no shrouds - got mine for $600 on autoplicity a couple years ago
Lobster claws - 034 or find used OEM's
y-pipe - whatever B5 RS4 replica is least expensive

gaskets, seals, washers, o-rings - you can find OE equivalents on rockauto if you search by part number. Dig through parts diagrams and make sure you get little things like the turbo o-rings for the inlets, washers and gaskets for turbo feed/drain fittings, etc

I already have the 034 Adapter bracket, so the plan is to throw the compatible AEM 340 lph pump in. Should be more than enough for quite a while. Ive run that pump on some other e85 cars as well.

I was planning on the frankenturbos and re-using as much of the stock piping as possible (for now)

[CELison]

If you're on a budget:

Motoza tune - $500ish
Reman or New K04-025 and K04-026 by Rotomaster $1000ish, Rotomaster makes a quality turbo
S6 airbox - easy to find used and is basically a B5 RS4 airbox
ProjectB5 Drop-in 450/85 fuel pump kit
OEM RS4 MAF Accordion (VAICO V10-3500) - $60
XS Power or equivalent inlets - $150
XS Power downpipes $200
B7 RS4 LuK Clutch Kit $150
TTV Flywheel for B7/B5 $350
Bosch 965cc Injectors (0280158040) $267 @ cars245.com
Bosch B5 RS4 MAF (BOSCH 0280218067) - check eBay for deals on new ones, I paid $100
Wagner S4 Intercoolers, no shrouds - got mine for $600 on autoplicity a couple years ago
Lobster claws - 034 or find used OEM's
y-pipe - whatever B5 RS4 replica is least expensive

gaskets, seals, washers, o-rings - you can find OE equivalents on rockauto if you search by part number. Dig through parts diagrams and make sure you get little things like the turbo o-rings for the inlets, washers and gaskets for turbo feed/drain fittings, etc

Your pricing is a little light for some of that stuff. TTV flywheel was more than that when I bought one 10 years ago. And I'm pretty sure the repset clutches are more than 150. RS4 maf is a pretty dated setup. Why does he need lobster claws and a y pipe on a K04 car? They've been proven to do nothing. Also, ET Spec and GET both will customer tune the car for that price or less.

[Matthewest91]

B7 rs4 clutches are 150 on rock auto.
Also I run a b7 s4 maf and it’s fine.

I run a c5 4.2 air box which is the same as b5 rs4 air box to 034 maf hose the setup is fine.
I have an extra maf in great condition if you want.
I bought it when I was working though issues that ended up not being real problem to begin with

Lobster claws are not needed but I’d suggest a better silicone TBB

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[RMode]

B7 rs4 clutches are 150 on rock auto.
Also I run a b7 s4 maf and it’s fine.

I run a c5 4.2 air box which is the same as b5 rs4 air box to 034 maf hose the setup is fine.
I have an extra maf in great condition if you want.
I bought it when I was working though issues that ended up not being real problem to begin with

Lobster claws are not needed but I’d suggest a better silicone TBB

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The S6 airbox isn’t the same as an RS4. Kinda close, but not the same. No icm provisions, and has a big hole in the front of it as well which is unfiltered.. Will require more frequent cleaning of the filter as a result

The B7 clutch isn’t a lot, but the TTV flywheel isn’t all that cheap.

A standard B5 RS4 clutch is more than enough, and overall, costs considerably less. Can easily use a stock flywheel too.


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[Matthewest91]

The S6 airbox isn’t the same as an RS4. Close, but not the same.

The B7 clutch isn’t a lot, but the TTV flywheel isn’t all that cheap.

A standard B5 RS4 clutch is more than enough, and overall, costs considerably less. Can easily use a stock flywheel too.


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The top is the same minus the icm cooler plates. Which most use 2.0 coils so no need.
The Derin intake mod for the lower will be just as good.
This is a budget setup, was just trying to help considering the cost of rs4 box vs the c5 4.2


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[RMode]

The top is the same minus the icm cooler plates. Which most use 2.0 coils so no need.
The Derin intake mod for the lower will be just as good.
This is a budget setup, was just trying to help considering the cost of rs4 box vs the c5 4.2


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And has a big hole in it which is unfiltered.

I used one for a while. It’s not great to tune around if you want things perfect.

A budget setup isn’t going to swap coils I don’t think. Stock coils work just fine, and doing things the true right way to adapt those coils, pinning back to ecu, isn’t an inexpensive endeavor. The adapter harnesses just leads to another failure point and a ton of extra bulk. I also formerly used them.


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[Matthewest91]

You patch the hole with a type of screen mesh.
I agreed simply a hole in the bottom is asking from problems.
And you’re correct about 2.0 coils causing misfires if not pinned back to the ecu and grounded correctly

Edit: Here the mesh from Amazon,
For the air box screen I used on the lower air box.
My tuner did not say anything about having an issue tuning. (Blake , ETSpec)

Is a type of screen mesh for atv air filters.


Brand: Outerwears
Outerwears OuterwearsPre Filter Sheet, 12x12 in, Cut-To-Fit, Polyester, Black, Each
Amazon's

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[CELison]

I bought the Luk Repset B7 RS4 pressure plate and mated it with a 6 puck SRM disk. 1000 "city" break in miles. It began to slip immediately when switching to E for tuning. I don't think a real B7 RS4 PP would have that issue. Just food for thought. Clutch is a pain in the ass to change so I would spend the money on something decent. These cars are all toys at this point, it's worth saving up a little instead of rushing into something with parts that can be an issue. I've learned that the hard way multiple times in my 15 year b5 ownership run. It ends up being more expensive than planned when you have to rip everything back apart, plus it's a hit to moral and enjoyment of the car.

[jbain2]

I’m doing a K04 build on my C5 right now. Below is what I did.

1. Blown K04’s
2. Mellett chra’s
3. B7 RS4 Luk clutch ($240)
4. TTV flywheel ($560)
5. Injectors (if you are using Motoza I’d suggest you find out what injectors they would like).
6. Used SRM side mounts (agree that the XS power ones should be ditched).
7. Fuel pump (Project B5)
8. I used the stock y-pipe, silicone hoses (except the intercooler ones), stock throttle body pipes

All the turbo options mentioned are made in China, but with differing reliability. Seems like by and large upgraded waste gates are a must.

Make sure all of your other stuff is in good working order including suspension bits and drivetrain (axles, drivetrain mounts, motor mounts, etc) stuff and you will be working with power levels that will add strain to the system.


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[04lss]

Ok, stupid questions incoming.

Will the frankenturbo work with the downpipes i have on the car? (i dont remember where i got them, theyre just just some basic aftermarket downpipes.)

If i get the stage 3 Ringer clutch, can i re-use the factory flywheel? or is a new flywheel a must have?

[CELison]

Yeah K03 and K04 have the same DP flange. You could wiz wheel the FW, most places don’t turn dual mass FWs. I did that with an old vast stage 3 clutch back in like 2010 and it was fine for 45k miles.

[jbain2]

I have an AWE flywheel that is let go for cheap. Need it out of my garage. PM me if interested.


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[04lss]

Question for folks.

Project b5 has hybrid turbos, and I can configure them with Mamba wastegates for the price of the f21 setup. Does that make more sense, give wastegates seem to be the primary issue?
I dont know much about PB5, so i dont know how reputable they are. Seems like i would need different downpipes for that setup compared to the F21, which will work on the aftermarket k03 style i already have.

[Matthewest91]

Same shit bro.
Some people have very good luck with FT,
And the Chinese counterparts.

I would buy new that way they come with a warranty. If it’s gonna fail it will be in that period like mine.

Is it a wastegate issue or the flapper issues ?

If your gonna run nls, anti lag, I would almost get bw or
Upgrade the wastegate and flapper
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[zipdoa]

For reference, S6 airbox. Looks like it has the vac line for opening the lower port (like the B5 RS4 has. I think there's a provision on the RS4 fuel rail?). What normally connects to the upper port? EGR?

[04lss]

Ok,

Here is my parts list:

1. Frankenturbo f21 with inlets
2. XS power Maf housing
3. Ringer racing stage 3+ clutch
4. AWE single Mass flywheel (Forum sale)
5. Bosch 1000CC injectors
6. AEM 340 with 034 adapter
7. Motoza tune upgrade (100 bucks since i already have them)
8. Tune up
9. Motul Fluids
10. engine Ice
11. RS4 SMIC (If the budget allows)
12. VVT gaskets
13. $5-700 for contingency

[Matthewest91]

Someone else might be able to comment but that fuel pump Might be a little small for those injectors.
Typically walbro 450 hardwired with a relay is the got to or a 525


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[CELison]

525s seem to be a little more reliable. I had a 450 fail and a 525 never had an issue. I’ve seen other 450s die quickly as well. This was genuine from worldpack. For a 525 you’ll have to mod or remove the suction jet and obviously run a separate relay.

[04lss]

I am mainly getting the 1000 injectors for future Built engine and big turbo plans. I am not planning anything like that in the near future. From my math, I should be fine on the 340 up to the limits of the stock engine, even with corn in the mix. willing to be corrected though.
Ive also had good luck with the AEM 340 on an old E85 Gm 3.8 Supercharged car i had.

[jbain2]

I’ve run an AEM pump on a couple of K04 builds and only had 1 issue after 40k miles.


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[04lss]

Alright,

I went with the SEP turbos. The owner was super responsive and walked me through how his turbos stood out from others. Also have seen good feedback on them, and they fit my power goals for stages. (450 whp on 93, 550-600 on E85, 2.8 heads etc)
Ordered the full setup with downpipes, inlets and install kit for barely more than the F21 setup.

Also ordered the RR stage 3+ clutch. I considered the stage 4, but will probably drive the car often in winter. based on feedback from Mike, it makes the most sense

Those are the two biggest pieces of the build, now i need to finalize everything else.

[Silverex]

525s seem to be a little more reliable. I had a 450 fail and a 525 never had an issue. I’ve seen other 450s die quickly as well. This was genuine from worldpack. For a 525 you’ll have to mod or remove the suction jet and obviously run a separate relay.

I’ve personally never ran a 525 but have heard the opposite about their reliability. They were made for cars that PWM the pump so they don’t run at full blast like they would if hardwired and is supposedly the reason for the higher failures
450s I’ve ran for years with no issue I do use the ones with part number ending in 0274