Another retrofit from Concert to MMI 3G+

[Craftingcat99]

I've wanted to upgrade my Infotainment in my 2009 A4 B8 Avant, for a while now, and recently decided to start collecting all the parts. There are already a lot of threads about this topic but I eve

My current setup is:
I have the Concert Radio unit without MMI but color display, so no buttons where the shifter is,
the basic soundsystem with only the passive speakers in the doors and no original subwoofer or amp.
But I added my own amp and sub, splicing the speaker wires at the rear of the radio, reducing the signals to a line level and feeding them back into the trunk, where a aftermarket amp sits, along with a sub-box in the trunk.

Can gateway: 9T0907468M
Instrument cluster: 8K0920900A
Radio: 8T1035186C
AC: 8T1820043AA

I already bought the MMI 3G+ Headunit (from a RS4 with B&O for a really fair price)
Part number: 8R1035670J 0897 H49

As for the Display, I wanted to go with an aftermarket Touch Android/Auto replacement that replaces the entire screen and trim piece, so I'll worry about that later.

And I am aware that I need a new Can gateway at the minimum to accommodate the MOST Bus etc. and I know that the component protection is going to be a PITA

My big question now:
What else do I need to upgrade? I
-Is my old monochromatic instrument cluster compatible with the new gateway and headunit? I've heard conflicting opinions on this.
-Can I reprogram my new headunit to output speaker levels at the quad lock connector, like the old one did, or is a factory amp required, if not do I need a B&O amp or does a standard one suffice? I am actually quite happy with my hacked together soundsystem
-Do I need a new climate control unit if I swap the Can gateway?
-Has anybody the required part numbers for the cable looms for all the units? (MMI <-> Buttons) (MMI <-> Gateway) (MOST fibre cables) etc....
-Can I get the highest spec gateway? since I am planning to retrofit ACC/FLA/etc. at a later point I am planning to go with the MOST+extCAN gateway (8R0907468P). Will that work with my new headunit, since only MOST and InfotainmentCAN are exclusiv from one another. And extCan should not be a problem if I don't have any of these systems at the moment, right?

Any help from an expert or somebody that already has done one of these retrofits would be greatly appreciated.

[DrGER]

Analog audio speaker output in an MMI3GP system always comes from the boot/trunk mounted external amplifier (either standard Audi Sound Sysstem or B&O) via the optical MOST bus.

This is a big project with marginal return in 2025, given that Audi/Harman-Becker stopped producing navdb updates for MMI3G in 2022 (last was the 2023 release). I don't think Kufatec offers any of the harnesses you need pre-built. Good luck. --g

[Craftingcat99]

Thanks a lot for the info. The main reason I want to upgrade is that with the MMI 3G+ there are a lot more options for different upgrades and mods, then there are with my basic radio setup.

So I guess I'm going the eBay route regarding wiring looms.

You don't happen to know the part number of the most basic amp that is supported by the 3G+ ? I find a lot of different opinions online which part numbers are B&O and which are basic amps.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

[DrGER]

So, ETKA tells us that PR-9VD uses the radio module amplifier when the B&O (PR-9VK) external amplifier (8T1035223A) is not present in a 3G+ system.

Since you will likely need a radio module, probably look for 4G0035056, any letter suffix will do, as you already have your own audio configuration. --g

[Craftingcat99]

Thank you. Do you know if there is a considerable difference between 4G0035056 and 4G1035053? The 4G1 vs 4G0 is just for distinguishing if the module is for LHD or RHD vehicles correct? so 4G0 is universal and 4G1 is LHD?
I ask because I found a "slightly used" 4G1035053G for just 30 bucks.

But the part number already helps a lot thanks again.

[Smac770]

B8 started with MY08 and MY09 A4/A5, using a particular electrical system and MMI 2G. B8 Q5 new in MY09 introduced the revised electrical system and MMI 3G. A4/A5 adopted this config starting MY10. Facelift introduced more changes, including the shift of MMI 3G High to MMI 3G Plus. So you have to always remember you're dealing with three distinct eras of electrical layout and control module variants.

So take the gateway. There's four configurations: without vs with extended CAN (adaptive cruise control and/or blind spot radars) and with vs without MOST (MMI). Which config you'll need is direct. But if you're trying to go MMI 3G, are you likely going to need a B8.0 MY10+ version rather than the version that would be in an MY09 from factory, as that's expecting to operate an MMI 2G system? I would guess so. But as for having an extended CAN version and just not having anything on that CAN bus, sure. The gateway only cares about what you've configured it to care about.

DIS - parts catalog doesn't imply any tie between the DIS type and having CAN bus vs MOST bus infotainment system. There's three configs: monochrome without trip computer (9Q3), monochrome with trip computer (9Q2, 9Q7 starting MY10), and color with trip computer (9Q4, 9Q8 starting MY10). But the monochrome versions, the trip computer part just seems to be a coding bit, no actual hardware difference, as the cluster p/ns are the same. But color vs monochrome for MMI, don't see a need for it to be a concern, unless you just want a color DIS.

Like the DIS, I would start with the impression that you'll need to do nothing with the climate controls other than the normal changes, if there are any, that have to be made to change from B8.0 CAN radio to B8.0 MMI 3G High.

I assume you're not aware of how the MMI 3G architecture is. The J794 in the dash has no tuner and no amplifier. That's all in the radio unit that goes in the left rear. For MMI 3G without B&O and without TV tuner, there's three objects on the optical ring. The J794 MMI 3G control module, the J533 gateway, and the radio unit with integrated amp. So the taps you added to the speaker outputs in the dash will now have to go to the speaker outputs in the left rear. But this also means the AM/FM RF leads are in the wrong place in the car. As well as the main speakers speaker leads.

So it might be really worth it in your scenario to consider if you can instead mount the 3G radio unit in the glove box. You don't say if you have the AMI unit in the glove box. The CAN bus AMI unit is not compatible with MMI 3G, so that's coming out anyway. The MMI 2G and CAN bus AMI units are large units that sit in a shelf in the glove box. If you don't have such, you'd have a large open glove box. You might retrofit the shelf insert and see about mounting the radio unit into there. Then it's at least a lot closer to where your pre-existing RF cables and speaker leads are. But no idea if anyone has done that.

[Smac770]

As for the MMI 3G radio unit, ...053 has the 80W 4-ch amp for basic or basic plus. While ...056 has the 180W 6-ch amp for standard (the factory system with the sub and center). B&O uses ...053 with the internal amp disabled, as it has it's own external amp unit on the MOST ring.

For us here in NAR, all configs use the ...080 radio that has the Sirius tuner integrated. All DAB configs there use the ...061 radio.

Normally, xx1 is LHD related and xx2 is RHD related. But that's not the case for the infotainment electronics. For the B8, xx0... tends to be related to B8.0, and xx1... tend to be related to B8.5 (be it 8R1... for the J794, 8T1... for the amp, 4G1... for the radio, etc).

[Craftingcat99]

Thank you, your message and the one above really helped me alot. Most of these infos I already "suspected" but now I am sure on which components I need and how everything has to be wired. I don't have an AMI interface or MMI 2G unit in the glove box, so mounting the radio in there would be an option although I'm going to have to tear the floor apart anyways, I may just go with the normal trunk setup. I also found a dedicated upgrade harness with MOST cable etc.
I'll update this thread in case it helps anybody in the future. And I'll probably buy the 30 bucks radio and just see where I go from there. In the worst case I've wasted 30€ but if i could save 200€+ I'll take that chance.

Thank you very much again

[Quattroking101]

B8 started with MY08 and MY09 A4/A5, using a particular electrical system and MMI 2G. B8 Q5 new in MY09 introduced the revised electrical system and MMI 3G. A4/A5 adopted this config starting MY10. Facelift introduced more changes, including the shift of MMI 3G High to MMI 3G Plus. So you have to always remember you're dealing with three distinct eras of electrical layout and control module variants.

So take the gateway. There's four configurations: without vs with extended CAN (adaptive cruise control and/or blind spot radars) and with vs without MOST (MMI). Which config you'll need is direct. But if you're trying to go MMI 3G, are you likely going to need a B8.0 MY10+ version rather than the version that would be in an MY09 from factory, as that's expecting to operate an MMI 2G system? I would guess so. But as for having an extended CAN version and just not having anything on that CAN bus, sure. The gateway only cares about what you've configured it to care about.

DIS - parts catalog doesn't imply any tie between the DIS type and having CAN bus vs MOST bus infotainment system. There's three configs: monochrome without trip computer (9Q3), monochrome with trip computer (9Q2, 9Q7 starting MY10), and color with trip computer (9Q4, 9Q8 starting MY10). But the monochrome versions, the trip computer part just seems to be a coding bit, no actual hardware difference, as the cluster p/ns are the same. But color vs monochrome for MMI, don't see a need for it to be a concern, unless you just want a color DIS.

Like the DIS, I would start with the impression that you'll need to do nothing with the climate controls other than the normal changes, if there are any, that have to be made to change from B8.0 CAN radio to B8.0 MMI 3G High.

I assume you're not aware of how the MMI 3G architecture is. The J794 in the dash has no tuner and no amplifier. That's all in the radio unit that goes in the left rear. For MMI 3G without B&O and without TV tuner, there's three objects on the optical ring. The J794 MMI 3G control module, the J533 gateway, and the radio unit with integrated amp. So the taps you added to the speaker outputs in the dash will now have to go to the speaker outputs in the left rear. But this also means the AM/FM RF leads are in the wrong place in the car. As well as the main speakers speaker leads.

So it might be really worth it in your scenario to consider if you can instead mount the 3G radio unit in the glove box. You don't say if you have the AMI unit in the glove box. The CAN bus AMI unit is not compatible with MMI 3G, so that's coming out anyway. The MMI 2G and CAN bus AMI units are large units that sit in a shelf in the glove box. If you don't have such, you'd have a large open glove box. You might retrofit the shelf insert and see about mounting the radio unit into there. Then it's at least a lot closer to where your pre-existing RF cables and speaker leads are. But no idea if anyone has done that.

Hey I got my cluster retrofitted some time back by speedosolutions from a monochrome DIS to color. My car came in stock with the 9Q7 monochrome with trip computer, and it has the stocks for it. With the new cluster, everything works fine except it doesn't use the on board trip computers at all. On my concert radio MMI I still see the options for on board computer 1 and 2 but it doesn't make any difference on my cluster. Heres what my cluster looks like, and I haven't seen anyone else with this issue. You will notice an how theres nothing below the red line. Any reasons how to fix or why this happens?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Craftingcat99]

No idea, maybe your DIS needs to be coded to be able to read the trip meter info? Have you tried to read the cluster with a diagnostic tool to see whether or not it is connected to the CAN network?
Maybe it would be better if you open up your own thread with your own keywords, so you can get the answers your looking for.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

[Quattroking101]

No idea, maybe your DIS needs to be coded to be able to read the trip meter info? Have you tried to read the cluster with a diagnostic tool to see whether or not it is connected to the CAN network?
Maybe it would be better if you open up your own thread with your own keywords, so you can get the answers your looking for.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

Yeah I posted my own thread about this: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...rer?p=15147706

I tried to use VCDS and mess with the long coder to see if it's something from there but I had no luck. It probably has something to do with CAN maybe, but idk how to check


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk