Question.. Why are S6 super affordable now?

[Daytonview]

I've stop looking for awhile now because of the oil strainer, turbo and DSG issues. Today, I happened to look just to look, very surprised that the prices on them dropped. Dropped to a point that I'm asking the group, what's the extended warranty on the C7 S6/S7 oil strainer, turbo and DSG?... lol

[Burkeomatic]

Well, it appeared all Audi in my age range prices dropped. I don't know if it is the new gen coming out, or the anticipated maintenance. The trade in on my A7 went from about $14k to $8k in a year, and I didn't drive it much the last year. But that also opened the door for me to move up to an A8.

When I was researching, the turbo screen issue ended up being a safety recall. So check to see if your call is up to date on it's recalls.

Other than that, all you have to worry about is the DSG, and a ton of affordable clutch packs have hit the market, go for it, get a V8 and enjoy.

[Daytonview]

Those A8 4.0T ... S6 engine, I've thought about them too. The oil strainer was done on yours?, what about the turbos? Replaced or no? Also, those are 8speed or DSG since it's the S6 engine?

[A6sport]

If caught early, there is no need to R&R the turbos, bad snails were a by-product of a clogged strainer...

All D4s have the ZF 8-speed, none were fitted with the DSG.

[Burkeomatic]

Those A8 4.0T ... S6 engine, I've thought about them too. The oil strainer was done on yours?, what about the turbos? Replaced or no? Also, those are 8speed or DSG since it's the S6 engine?

No clue, the turbos look original, so it must have just been the strainer. A8s have a ZF8, so it basically has an S6 engine but coupled to the ZF8.

[RLCree]

Used Car prices have crashed in the last 6 months. Also the newest C7 is now 6 years old. That seems to be a tipping point for a lot of cars.

[Burkeomatic]

Used Car prices have crashed in the last 6 months. Also the newest C7 is now 6 years old. That seems to be a tipping point for a lot of cars.

From what I've read, it is because the new car inventory is back up and buying new cars is heavily incentivized now, to cap that off, interest rates are usually higher on used cars, so why not buy new? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be opposed to buying a new Audi, but I would literally be going into debt and paying interest on a depreciating asset, not to mention, the equivalent of my car isn't made anymore (I'd have to get a S8 to get the 4.0t now). So basically I'd be paying interest to effectively watch a year's salary turn into $20,000. I mean, that would be different if I made a half million a year, but I make a quarter of that and I'm trying to get caught up on retirement from being an irresponsible youth. LOL.

[Daytonview]

Burk.. tell me more about your A8 D4 4.0T... was reading your thread in the 4.0T section... did you give it to tha tune yet?.. thinking this is prob the way to go as long as the oil screen was removed or updated... I'll prob just go stage 1... JHM says 11.1 for S6... stock A8 4.0T runs about 0.3 slower than the stock S6... so A8 4.0T will run 11.4-5?.. also, the 2015+ year, it got the mini HP bump to 435 and 4 more mpg on the highway.. is this because of cylinder deactivation?

[Burkeomatic]

Burk.. tell me more about your A8 D4 4.0T... was reading your thread in the 4.0T section... did you give it to tha tune yet?.. thinking this is prob the way to go as long as the oil screen was removed or updated... I'll prob just go stage 1... JHM says 11.1 for S6... stock A8 4.0T runs about 0.3 slower than the stock S6... so A8 4.0T will run 11.4-5?.. also, the 2015+ year, it got the mini HP bump to 435 and 4 more mpg on the highway.. is this because of cylinder deactivation?

Umm, I don't know about the COD. My DS1 gets in tomorrow. I'm going to buy a TCU tune and E85 conversion next. If you look at their s6/7 "tuning notes" their E60 tune provides a huge jump in power over their 91 octane tune. I suppose I should do some baseline pulls on my dragy before I tune it, huh?

https://www.dynospectrum.com/getting-started

I went with the A8 because

1. my kids are getting bigger and they were starting to run out of room in the A7.
2. Getting a bigger car is an easier sell to the wife than "I need to go buy this car that's exactly like my old car with a bigger motor, oh and the transmission might break" I'd never hear the end of that.
3. It is the cheapest way to get the 4.0t/ZF8 combo.

I ultimately wanted a car that I wouldn't mind swapping the engine or transmission on in the next 5-10 years. It's easier to justify for a car you like that has every thing you want and every option you want than say my A7, while bullet proofed as best as I could with all of the "good stuff" like 034 mounts, bushings, and it was decatted with upgraded timing components I would be out of room for my kids who are considerably taller than average because I am, it didn't have all of the options I wanted and I'd always be wanting for more in the engine department, and I don't think I need to rehash that.

Besides, I'm not going to be swinging for the fence on the power, so it ended up not mattering to me that I got the higher compression motor, I'd be happy with 700-800hp, which is doable as E85 is plentiful in these parts. I'm not going to go out picking street races with model s plaids or lucid sapphires or anything like that. If I decide that's something I want to do, I could always find an RS7/S8 long block I suppose if I happen to blow mine up. Which I doubt, because once I retire from the military, I'm moving far out with a bunch of land and a big building where I can collect old crappy cars and make weird hybrids, like a LS powered G-Body with a manual conversion.

[Avantly]

It is 100% maintenance cost. Look at the maintenance schedule for the 4.0T cars. Then look at what the dealer is charging for these. Is it even possible to have a C7 dealer visit for under $1000? Lol. Aftermarket shops that are willing to tackle the jobs don't charge much less and are even more likely to screw it up as the dealer. Combine this with the oil screens causing major turbo scares and many turbos and engines destroyed (Every buyer wondering: Did the turbos fail in this previously? Will this affect the lifespan of this engine?), the many complaints and issues with the DL501, the random 4.0T that decide to have a hole appear in the block for no particular reason, etc.... And now that they are more than 10 years old, modules originally designed with a 10-year lifespan dropping like flies - Camera modules, brake light assemblies, headlight modules, I am just waiting for BCM2 failures to become common at which point I'd expect that the resale value of a C7 S6 will drop well below 10 grand regardless of odometer reading... Is it even possible to fix the BCM2 issue as a DIYer unless your module still intermittently works so you can jailbreak it and pull sync data? I doubt it.

Don't get me wrong, I have one, it is fun to drive, but the module failures I've experienced thus far speak volumes for how reliable cars made during and after this era will be (and how expensive it will be to keep them going). The high dollar (and unobtainable except by OEM) chips in all the modules were designed for a 10 year lifespan. 12 years was considered "likely". After that, OEM doesn't care if every single car is scrap and due to the complexity of the immobilizer ring and inability of aftermarket tools to re-create data that is lost in bricked modules, they probably will be. Best to enjoy these monsters while they still run.

[A4x]

It is 100% maintenance cost. Look at the maintenance schedule for the 4.0T cars. Then look at what the dealer is charging for these. Is it even possible to have a C7 dealer visit for under $1000? Lol. Aftermarket shops that are willing to tackle the jobs don't charge much less and are even more likely to screw it up as the dealer. Combine this with the oil screens causing major turbo scares and many turbos and engines destroyed (Every buyer wondering: Did the turbos fail in this previously? Will this affect the lifespan of this engine?), the many complaints and issues with the DL501, the random 4.0T that decide to have a hole appear in the block for no particular reason, etc.... And now that they are more than 10 years old, modules originally designed with a 10-year lifespan dropping like flies - Camera modules, brake light assemblies, headlight modules, I am just waiting for BCM2 failures to become common at which point I'd expect that the resale value of a C7 S6 will drop well below 10 grand regardless of odometer reading... Is it even possible to fix the BCM2 issue as a DIYer unless your module still intermittently works so you can jailbreak it and pull sync data? I doubt it.

Don't get me wrong, I have one, it is fun to drive, but the module failures I've experienced thus far speak volumes for how reliable cars made during and after this era will be (and how expensive it will be to keep them going). The high dollar (and unobtainable except by OEM) chips in all the modules were designed for a 10 year lifespan. 12 years was considered "likely". After that, OEM doesn't care if every single car is scrap and due to the complexity of the immobilizer ring and inability of aftermarket tools to re-create data that is lost in bricked modules, they probably will be. Best to enjoy these monsters while they still run.

This is the scariest thing I have read on this forum and it caught me totally by surprise. I've owned my 2016 S6 for 5 months now lol.

[Daytonview]

That's why I've moved away from looking at S6/S7. But, like i mentioned, i recheck the prices and they have way way way came down. Now, I'm getting a quote for car warranty =).... but still want to tune it atleast stage 1... but sweating the td1..... my alternative is just to get a 2017+ A4 2.0T quad and tune it stage 1 and be happy with mid 12's... but im currently stage 2 single pulley and doing flat 12... so mid 12's is slightly going backwards... lol

[Akakios]

A $100k car still comes with $100k maintenance costs, even when its market value plummets. Those expenses don't disappear just because the car depreciates.

YouTube offers a wealth of resources, with many channels covering most aspects of the car. You have Audi C7 Owners and of course our YouTube channel to fill in any gaps past that for the S6/S7. If you're mechanically inclined, you can handle a lot of the work yourself.

But always know your limits—there’s no shame in taking your car to a professional when you reach the edge of your expertise.

[SteveKen]

It all depends on what your definition of affordable is.

[Burkeomatic]

This is the scariest thing I have read on this forum and it caught me totally by surprise. I've owned my 2016 S6 for 5 months now lol.

That's because it's overdramatic. The turbo screens were handled with a safety recall, so as long as you've had your recall done, you're good.

As for the modules, I'd have to see some proof on that. Plus, if it really worries you, stock up. My rear window doesn't work, and I ordered a module for $30.

[A4x]

That's because it's overdramatic. The turbo screens were handled with a safety recall, so as long as you've had your recall done, you're good.

As for the modules, I'd have to see some proof on that. Plus, if it really worries you, stock up. My rear window doesn't work, and I ordered a module for $30.

I was thinking it was overdramatic as well. Electronic control modules don't typically wear out after 10 years.

[Bigfoot003]

I have a 2013 S6, >103K miles, tuned since 25k miles with GIAC ([I]You'll blow the engine!"[I]). Those statements run completely contrary to my ownership experience. As stated previously, if you have some level of competence and a diagnostic tool, you can handle most issues - my only issues since 52K miles? Oil changes, tire wear, 1 O2 sensor, wiper blades, and a water pump (AC pump). I get texts from my wrench who misses seeing the car. Heck, I've been tempted to buy a second one as cheap as they go for and as much car as you get for your money. Don't let the haters influence you. Ensure the oil strainer was replaced in a timely manner = no/limited turbo worries (generally speaking) and DSG maintenance and fluid changes done on-time, buy and enjoy!

[Avantly]

That's because it's overdramatic. The turbo screens were handled with a safety recall, so as long as you've had your recall done, you're good.

As for the modules, I'd have to see some proof on that. Plus, if it really worries you, stock up. My rear window doesn't work, and I ordered a module for $30.

I am talking about the normal maintenance intervals for the car. You need to pay close attention to it. Don't change the DL501 fluid right on time, they end up with a lot of problems by the ~115k service mark. Some people claim that the mechatronic/solenoid issues are partly caused by extended fluid maintenance intervals, I don't know if that is true, I only know that dealing with the problems yourself is quite expensive just in parts, I can't imagine paying a dealer to take care of it.
The spark plugs aren't all that hard to change every 30k miles but I am sure that shops and the dealer charge a ton to do it. My experience is that especially on cold starts you sure can tell when those plugs are nearing scheduled replacement.
The rear sport diff fluid is by far the most expensive to do, whether you do it yourself or have a dealer do it, I wouldn't trust anyone other than a dealer or myself to do it anyway given the cost of the differential assembly (I think it's >$8k from the dealer? I can't remember. And there are threads on here from people who had the dealer change the fluid and put the wrong fluid in the wrong chamber and ended up needing a replacement shortly after).
The DL501 fluid and filters and the remaining diff fluids aren't has hard, but still very costly if you pay someone to do it.


The oil separators have always been an issue on the VAG drivetrains, this one just happens to be a lot more expensive and labor intensive to replace than some others and it is a guaranteed failure. Mine lasted until 110k miles.
The oil screen issue has been addressed by Audi so I am not so worried about that, mine got replacement turbos and updated screen at 80k miles "just in case" more than a year before the recall.
At 120k miles and 10 years old, mine is starting to experience the "typical Audi oil leaks". I haven't identified the leak locations, this is my first 4.0T, but I have seeping on 3 sides of the engine and I am starting to get the typical burning oil smell if I let it sit for a week or so and then drive it. I doubt these will be as easy to correct as my 2.7T cars, maybe similar to my chained 4.2 cars but only time will tell.

In addition to the typical maintenance, I've experienced the following failures between 80k and 120k miles:
-Both rear brake lights (there is a TSB on this, the only fix is to replace with the "updated" LED brake light assemblies for the typical LED assembly cost. I have yet to deal with this and just deal with the constant warnings right now.
-One headlight (LED's appear to run very hot in these units, fan was still working, but LED strip overheated and I ended up gutting a low mileage light that was smashed in an accident, will see how long that repair lasts, I am not paying thousands for a brand new assembly on a 10 year old car).
-Oil temperature sensor failure (for no particular reason, sensor looked fine, had to put car in service position to get the dang thing out)
-Cooling fan failure (intermittent, it was the fan itself, not the fan controller)
-Both ACC radar sensor failure (One around 80k, then another one about 20k miles later, both disassembled and repaired by myself, the price on new ones is ridiculous and cruise control/launch mode/etc will not work without them not to mention the ridiculous warnings).
-Camera module in windshield is now intermittently working (will reball the FPGA myself, not paying for that repair)
-Two different HVAC actuators have failed or are starting to fail, I can hear one grinding every time I start up the car, I turned those vents off with the wheel on the vent itself, I'll deal with it later)
-Bent one of the control arm mounts on a pothole, this never would have happened on a C5 car, but I do accept that the lower profile of the 19" wheels + lighter weight steels in the unibody and subframe make this inevitable when driving newer cars on crappy roads.

My car came from the west coast and is black, It was garaged indoors but parked in an office carport during the day, so it has seen more heat than probably 80% of the other C7 S6 on the market right now which has most definitely influenced my failures, but the cars from the cooler climates aren't *that* far behind the hot climate cars.

I love the car, it's an absolute monster, but after 40k miles and a lot of scheduled maintenance I keep it in the garage a lot more and just drive a C5 as a daily. I am not trying to bash the car. I still haven't had any air suspension failures (which are oh-so-much-more-expensive than the C5 allroad air suspension repairs) which I am grateful for. I was definitely spoiled by my C5 cars from back when all the semiconductors used gold bond wires, few BGA chips, and the "10 year" design target back then almost always ended up being more like "20 years, or whenever it eventually fails", but I can't complain when electronics that were designed with a 7-10 year typical lifespan do actually start to fail after 10 years. After the late 2000's auto crash they got really serious about cost margins and making sure they didn't "over-design" things anymore; was very important to control manufacturing cost and I don't blame the manufacturers for that one bit.

Even after all the problems, I would still do it all over again. Nothing gets the heart rate up like a 4.0T. The engine has such a refined anger, so much different than the USA "muscle cars". USA muscle car anger = Unrefined, excessive, difficult to harness, really good for straight lines and making tire smoke. 4.0T anger = refined, more of a controlled burn that allows you to harness its full potential, ready to pass that kia sedona driving 54 in a 55 (how dare they) before the kia even knows you're behind it - and it's polite about it, since its (well-controlled) anger is reserved for the pavement, not other drivers.

[Avantly]

I was thinking it was overdramatic as well. Electronic control modules don't typically wear out after 10 years.

This was true back when it was gold bond wires and semiconductors were still the "wild west". After auto industry crash the OEM's became very serious about design targets. The "7-10 year lifespan" of the past was a semi-educated guess; This is why we have chips from the 80's still working in many cases (in fact we are just recently starting to see first generation FLASH from the late 80's and early 90's start to fail en masse). By ~2010 there was more than enough data and well-developed test methods to have a much higher confidence interval regarding semiconductor lifespan - Combine this with the post-crash push for cost reduction and this bought us the wonder of replacing gold bond wires (which suffer little to no corrosion in decades) with copper bond wires (guaranteed corrosion). I would be surprised if there were any gold-bonded chips/transistors/etc left in automotive by the mid 2010's. The plastic packages that the chips are housed in are hygroscopic, and therefore with copper-bonded semiconductors, failure is only a matter of time. This is exacerbated by the issues with ion migration/"electromigration" that became so much worse with the switch to lead-free solder.

So, consider the designed lifespan for chips made before this big switch (let's say ~2008) to be anywhere from the 10-year design target, to 20 years. Individual chips that are outliers might even last 30 years. Consider the design target after the big switch to be much more realistic.

At the same time all of this cost-sensitivity became severe, there was a much bigger push for custom chips (OEM-specific chips, maybe it's just a standard off the shelf chip with a slightly different feature set, or maybe it's a completely custom chip, it depends on sales volume) in car modules - This has been a notable issue since the 2000's, but in ~2010+ cars you find these custom chips in nearly every module. For a 2000's ECU, BCM, whatever, there is a high chance that I can repair it with off the shelf parts that are still available today. There are many modules from that era that have a few custom chips but as long as those specific chips are still working, it can be repaired. For the newer modules, it's turning into a crapshow because these custom chips were never sold on the mass market and never will be, so when they fail, you toss the module in the parts bin.

Can you tell I am from the "Hold on to your 90's and 2000's cars as long as you can" club... My past experience in the industry drove me to this and I will probably be driving a C5 until I am old as long as I can find a way to repair the electrical modules xD