View Full Version : biggest injector size

10-08-2006, 10:58 AM
ok, searched and couldn't come up with any thing that was dead on(learned a lot of new stuff though)

but, what is the biggest injector size you can run with only a chip, exhaust, testpipe, dv?

i have an 01 with GIAC X chip and i found a good deal on some 310cc injectors. would these be beneficial to me?

10-08-2006, 02:33 PM
im curious to know this as well, someone out there knows the answer... im thinking probably nothing bigger than 440cc.... green tops... is that correct or can you go bigger?

10-08-2006, 02:53 PM
the chips are designed for the stock injectors...

i dont know that the chipped ecu could correct enough for larger injectors....

10-08-2006, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by SeanF
the chips are designed for the stock injectors...

i dont know that the chipped ecu could correct enough for larger injectors....

exactly. you would be running super super rich, and replacing your plugs every 100 miles. stick with the stock injectors until you get a bigger turbo and software.

10-08-2006, 06:51 PM
Try this out ......

what software are you running? and what fuel pressure,3 bar 4 bar??
I have a Garrett 3071, RS2 MAF,55lb/hr injectors,470 hp chip and VMAP running 4 bar AND the complete grocerie list
1. Pauter Machine rods
2. Garrett GT3071 turbo
3. FMIC and plumbing
4. SPEC stage 3+ clutch
6. New Rings
7. ARP head ,main ,and exhaust studs
8. MOCAL oil cooler
9. Seimen 55lb injectors
10. Clevite77 rod bearings
11. KS main bearings
12. Bob Pastore 470hp Software and VMAP 4bar
13. 7A exhaust cam
14. Swain coated tubular header(custom)
15. 3.5" DP (custom)
16. Turbosmart dual port BOV
17. New tranny mounts
18. New engine mounts
19. Balanced pistons

10-08-2006, 07:06 PM
do not touch the injectors

10-08-2006, 07:16 PM
This is a good read !!!

10-08-2006, 07:16 PM
thanks guys

10-08-2006, 07:20 PM
Many car owners of late model cars have made changes to their engines by installing a bigger cam, headers, supercharger, turbocharger, stroker kit, porting the heads or intake, or hundreds of other improvements. Unfortunately you have found that the engine changes and modifications did not yield the HP results that you expected.

Next you purchase a "chip" that is guaranteed to improve the HP output of the engine. You installed the "chip" but couldn't really tell much difference. You buy another from a different manufacture but it is about the same. Now you have several hundred dollars into "chips" that have not fulfilled your expectations. Many car owners are forced to return the ECM for "reprogramming" numerous times with the late model "flash memory" systems.

If you find yourself here, please read on........

What's Wrong??????

Simple. How can you expect someone to make a "chip" to work for your car when there are literally thousands of combinations for every vehicle? How can one "chip" do all of that? Must be a "Magic chip" huh? Don't get me wrong, many manufacturers have designed "combinations" that work. They give you an explicit list of items to change along with the "chip" and the "package" works OK. But change one thing and it's time to start all over again. With "chips" ranging in price from $75 to $350 each plus the cost of shipping and not to mention the downtime you have while searching or waiting for the new "chip" one can see where a $1000 or so investment into a programmable system is better in the long run.

What is the answer to getting the most HP out of your combination?

The Programmable Computers have much to offer over the factory ECM's with "chip" changes. The key to these systems is that you are in control of changes that you would like to make. If the car doesn't perform properly, simply turn on the laptop and fix it. The software shows you the condition of the sensors on-line and in real time. The changes you make effect the engine immediately. If the change is not what you wanted, you don't have to buy a new "chip" or send anything back, you just type in a new value. All of the changes are direct to the computer and retained in memory, even if you unplug the ECM and store it in the garage. The files can be downloaded to your laptop and stored for backup or off-line modification.

Why does the Programmable System work better?

Easy, the stock systems that utilize MAF (mass air flow) devices measure airflow into the engine and proportion fuel to the engine based on a preset air fuel ratio for economy. Unfortunately the MAF sensor was never designed to read the airflows above the cruise and part throttle operation. Now the computer must calculate fuel from a factory table based on RPM and calculated load. The programmable systems allow you to program every engine RPM and Load point. Fuel and Spark are controlled by changing the Fuel and Spark "Maps" based on feedback and performance. Feedback can be in the form of a engine or chassis dyno, wide band oxygen sensor or even a standard O2 sensor. The most important feature is that the unit is Re-Programmable and when you decide to change cams because you find a better one, you have nothing else to buy. Install the new cam and the computer can be reprogrammed for the additional HP of the new cam at no additional cost other than time.

Which System do I need?

Depending on your power requirements, injector size and the intended use of the car the proper system can be chosen easily. All of the systems have data logging capability. Depending on the money you are willing to spend, these system offer many options like wide band closed loop control, sequential injector control, individual cylinder control of timing and fuel and many other options. Each system has it's own features and software. Choosing the right system for your needs is as simple as a phone call to White Racing & Marine to further discuss your particular combination.

When does the need arise for a Sequential System?

Sequential systems offer better control of the injector at low and high pulse widths do to several facts. "Bank to Bank" or "Batch Fire" systems fire half or all of the injectors at once and in the case of a "batch fire" system, the injectors are fired every engine revolution. Sequential systems fire each injector just like the spark plug, each injector can be controlled as to the time it fires relative to the spark (phasing), the amount of fuel delivered and any cylinder fuel trim desired. The Sequential system fires once every two engine revolutions on a four cycle engine. When HP outputs require that injectors are chosen with "low impedance" coils and large flow rates, these injectors often operate at very low pulse widths at idle. Sometimes the double fire, batch or bank/bank operation modes will not offer the idle quality desired. Sequential systems offer individual cylinder control often used in racing where air flow to different cylinders is not the same and small corrections are desired to make the air fuel ratio to all cylinders exactly the same to get the ultimate performance possible. The sequential will have also have greater control of the injector at high pulse widths and slightly extend the injectors usable working range.

What about Wide Band Closed Loop Control, why should I buy this option?

All of the systems are capable of utilizing a standard or stock type O2 sensor for normal operation. These sensors were designed to operate at 14.7 A/F ratio with +/- one half A/F ratio either side. This allows best economy for normal driving and everyday use. Even though the sensors have a high side output, no one has ever came up with a output voltage chart that is foolproof as to voltage vs. A/F for closed loop operation. Allowing your ECM to run in closed loop targets the A/F at 14.7 and maintains good street economy. When WOT operation is desired, the ECM runs in open loop based on the programming that you have completed for best HP.

With Wide Band O2 control, these special sensors are designed for operation over a wide band of operation usually from 9:1 to 20:1 A/F ratios. Normally most race and street engines will find the best performance in the 12.5:1 to 11.5:1 A/F ratios. Turbocharged vehicles usually on the rich side. Using these wide band sensors in full closed loop control allows the programmer to program the target A/F ratio into the ECM that is desirable for the application. The ECM will then control the injectors to maintain the A/F ratio as close as possible. Nothing can overcome plain bad programming but this feature will assist you to develop a better fuel map to control the engine to it's maximum HP level. The minimum and maximum allowable correction along with the enable RPM values are user programmable. Other features such as gain and PID loop control are user controlled parameters to allow the most efficient and accurate closed loop control possible.

Wide Band Closed Loop control allows you to program a target A/F of perhaps 14.7 A/F for cruising and part throttle operation and then slowly targeted to 12.5 A/F at WOT operation. This give you the best of both worlds for economy and maximum performance.

What about Turbocharged and Supercharged Applications?

Another unique feature of the Programmable Systems is their ability to use 1 BAR, 2 BAR and 3 BAR MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensors. A standard 1 BAR sensor will read vacuum to atmospheric pressure and is used for normally aspirated engines. 2 BAR sensors are used to measure up to 15 PSI of boost while 3 BAR sensors will measure up to 30 PSI of boost. The computer is programmed to select which sensor is installed and the fuel and spark map control fuel and spark through the desired boost pressures of operation. As the boost increases, fuel may be added to accommodate the added power and spark can be reduced to eliminate detonation due to high cylinder pressures. No need for an aftermarket timing controller. The programmable system takes care of it all.

What about Nitrous Oxide?

Nitrous is another built in feature of these controllers. Various nitrous controls and features allow you to program the amount of spark retard and fuel enrichment based on the amount of nitrous selected. Single and multi-stage ECM's are available with some systems up to 4 stages of nitrous. The other unique feature is that the option is available as wet or dry meaning that the nitrous solenoid can be installed into the intake and all of the additional fuel can be added through the injectors. Parameters such as delays, retards and enables between stages can easily be programmed into the ECM.

How long does it take to install?

A typical installation should take about 15 minutes. The OEM ECM is removed from the car and the aftermarket ECM and Interface PCB is installed in it's place by simply plugging it in. In some cases a MAP sensor will be installed in the engine compartment where a cable will connect to an existing wire under the hood (preferably soldered) and a plug-in connection to the TPS or other wiring to obtain voltage to power the MAP sensor. A vacuum line will be installed to the MAP sensor to feed it manifold pressure. The wiring under the dash will be supplied with a connector to accommodate the aftermarket software programming cable to your laptop.

You mean I don't have to re-wire my car?

No, that is the whole idea behind "Plug-n-Play". We try to build the interface to use all of the existing wiring that came with the vehicle. We also try to install the new aftermarket system in the same location as stock so that it is out of the way and in most cases, under the dash or trim panel. The programming cable connector may be left outside the dash or panel to allow easy of connection to the laptop. Since options like Wide Band O2 and Nitrous Oxide were never factory installed, additional wiring must be installed for options like these but is supplied in the "kit" if desired.

What if I am not a computer whiz?

All of our systems can be purchased with "Plug-n-Play" preloaded software at no additional charge. We have calibrated a great variety of cars and have a large library of program files. We can assist you over the Internet to make changes to your program using E-Mail or downloadable links. Such files exist on our Links page for customers cars we have worked with in the past and presen

10-08-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by sean1.8t
ok, searched and couldn't come up with any thing that was dead on(learned a lot of new stuff though)

but, what is the biggest injector size you can run with only a chip, exhaust, testpipe, dv?

i have an 01 with GIAC X chip and i found a good deal on some 310cc injectors. would these be beneficial to me?

Why do you want bigger injectors? It doesn't give you more hp. If your leaning out then I'd get bigger injectors. Bigger injectros can also make your car run slower if your running to rich.

10-09-2006, 05:38 AM
No reason to go larger injectors with a K03 since it doesn't move enough air to max out the stock injectors. Injectors are only used for K04(in some cases) and BT's. I was able to make 250 chp on my K03 with the stock injectors and stock fpr.