How acceptable is it to reuse the cam girdle bolts?

[fastboatster]

Had to remove driver side cam girdle due to the cam holding tool bolt shearing off and not being able to extract it “in situ”:291498
291499
Has anyone reused cam girdle bolts by any chance? The torque on them is 8 nm + 90 deg, which is probably not causing these to actually stretch, but the manual wants to get these replaced with new ones. Perhaps I should ask around in the section where they had cars with 3.2 engine which was a base for the 3.0t and see if they replace these or not?

[Smac770]

The 3.2L CALA has the same "replace if removed" note for the camshaft retaining frame bolts. But as to "do they actually", you'd want to check the B8 Q5 forum; that probably had more units shipped with CAL engines than the B8 A5 and B8 A4 combined. Or just call up your dealership and talk to the motor tech, see what he does. Don't assume the bolt should not be deformed. That's the point of TTY bolts, made to minimal necessary specification to survive one tightening event.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/round-head-screw-priced-each/n91127602/
Holy f, $33 in bolts just for that, per side? Well, Audi makes decisions to save them money, not to save you money. :-)

[fastboatster]

Anyways, procured the bolts yesterday, but couldn’t do much yesterday because by the time I returned from the dealer which had these, the weather forecast showed it would start to rain heavily in a couple of hrs (which it did), so just managed to break the driver side exhaust cam sprocket bolt loose by mounting the cam in the spare cylinder head I have from my old blown engine. I couldn’t break this bolt loose in situ unlike the rest of the bolts

[Nillious]

I would replace them. Tty bolts stretch and when you tighten them again they will stretch again and possibly break.

[fastboatster]

I would replace them. Tty bolts stretch and when you tighten them again they will stretch again and possibly break.
I am replacing them, although I’m not really sure these are tty bolts. Torque angle bolts are not always torque to yield, i don’t think that 8 nm plus 90 deg permanently stretches 8.8 grade m6 bolts which is what these bolts are, but I don’t feel like taking chances with this right now. I want to get this sh1t done and get this out of the driveway which is a challenge with all the rainfall which is expected to have little breaks till the end of the next week

[Smac770]

+° and TTY are not hard associations, true. All we have to go by is where Audi denotes replace if removed. For all we know, they simply copy/pasted from the past and never reevaluated the RiR spec. But unless someone comes along and tests the measured clamping force of a new one of those bolts vs. reusing one of those bolts, we have nothing to judge by. Slap one of the removed bolts against a new bolt under a scope, see if there's any physical difference noted. All the TTY talk seems to be about stretch, and physically observable change.

[fastboatster]

really strange issue today - when I installed the cam locking tool t40133 on the driver side girdle with cams, no matter how much I tried, the locking tool wouldn't seat flush against the girdle.There always would be a small gap about 2 mm or so. This is not like passenger side where everything aligned perfectly even with chains on. Bad quality Amazon tool?

[Mfryman1]

Are you using the same cam locking tool you were using when the tool bolt snapped? I remember when using my "amazon" tool when doing my timing chains one side felt as if the bolt was going to break. The valve springs do create some rotational tension between the 2 cams I found out. 2MM is like miles of difference. Wonder where it is coming from. Cam not seated in Journals or bent tool???

[fastboatster]

Are you using the same cam locking tool you were using when the tool bolt snapped? I remember when using my "amazon" tool when doing my timing chains one side felt as if the bolt was going to break. The valve springs do create some rotational tension between the 2 cams I found out. 2MM is like miles of difference. Wonder where it is coming from. Cam not seated in Journals or bent tool???
I got another tool from Amazon, this one is much better. Cams didn’t look aligned even when mounted on the girdle removed from the cylinder head. Now they do. I think the tool is just low quality, seems like the ends which make contact with the slits on the cams are not parallel to each other. Specifically, the end for the intake cam.

[Krusty]

Porb no need, however, these things are cheap, better to always use new bolts.

[JRYtheS4]

I got another tool from Amazon, this one is much better. Cams didn’t look aligned even when mounted on the girdle removed from the cylinder head. Now they do. I think the tool is just low quality, seems like the ends which make contact with the slits on the cams are not parallel to each other. Specifically, the end for the intake cam.Can you share which tool worked well for you? Thanks.

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[fastboatster]

Can you share which tool worked well for you? Thanks.

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This one seemed to work, I’ll find out when I start the engine for the first time after resealing my cam girdle and replacing upper timing chain tensioners and plastic guides:
PLAYOCCAR T40133 Engine Timing Camshaft Locking Tool Set Compatible with VW Audi 2.8T 3.0T TFSI Engines https://a.co/d/0KcrGhh
I wouldn’t recommend it, though, I’d rather spend 70-100$ for T40133 replicas from Freedom Racing, CTA manufacturing or other suppliers or would even go for an OEM T40133 tool which is about 140ish from audi.snapon.com or vw.snapon.com. As a side note, I’d rather pull the engine out to do the tensioners, it’s doable but very inconvenient in the car and the stuff like cats, upper timing chain covers takes way too much time and eats into the time saved by not pulling the engine.

[JRYtheS4]

This one seemed to work, I’ll find out when I start the engine for the first time after resealing my cam girdle and replacing upper timing chain tensioners and plastic guides:
PLAYOCCAR T40133 Engine Timing Camshaft Locking Tool Set Compatible with VW Audi 2.8T 3.0T TFSI Engines https://a.co/d/0KcrGhh
I wouldn’t recommend it, though, I’d rather spend 70-100$ for T40133 replicas from Freedom Racing, CTA manufacturing or other suppliers or would even go for an OEM T40133 tool which is about 140ish from audi.snapon.com or vw.snapon.com. As a side note, I’d rather pull the engine out to do the tensioners, it’s doable but very inconvenient in the car and the stuff like cars, upper timing chain covers takes way too much time and eats into the time saved by not pulling the engine.Thanks for the advice. I might be about to follow in your footsteps. My driver's side chain has started to rattle for the entire cold start some mornings.

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[fastboatster]

Thanks for the advice. I might be about to follow in your footsteps. My driver's side chain has started to rattle for the entire cold start some mornings.

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I wonder why it’s almost always the drivers side. My passenger side tensioner seemed to be in a great shape, very hard to compress and felt like the new one. Driver side had a broken upper slide and was noticeably weaker than a new one. Some other threads on AZ and AW also had issues with driver side as well.

[JRYtheS4]

I wonder why it’s almost always the drivers side. My passenger side tensioner seemed to be in a great shape, very hard to compress and felt like the new one. Driver side had a broken upper slide and was noticeably weaker than a new one. Some other threads on AZ and AW also had issues with driver side as well.I'm not sure. I'm trying a last ditch oil change even though I just did one 1k ago, we'll see.. I did add some ceratec and motor oil saver so I wonder if I thinned out the oil too much. Seemed to start rattling more after the oil change. We'll see. I had trouble with it last winter, switched oil weights, and it was good for the rest of winter and summer. Now we're back to rattles again.

Sucks that it doesn't make sense to just do one side. I can't see myself only doing one with all the work needed to get to it, might as well just do both. Good excuse to get rid of my stock cats, I suppose.

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[fastboatster]

Had a first start (in the rain) on Sunday:

https://youtu.be/fKAoaatHHHo
Seems a lot less shaky and smoother. Still need to completely tighten engine mount bolts, steering rack bolts, install the x-brace and bleed the cooling system properly.

[JRYtheS4]

Had a first start (in the rain) on Sunday:

https://youtu.be/fKAoaatHHHo
Seems a lot less shaky and smoother. Still need to completely tighten engine mount bolts, steering rack bolts, install the x-brace and bleed the cooling system properly.Congrats! Sounds good.

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[fastboatster]

Congrats! Sounds good.

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Thanks! I suppose messing with engine's timing and not having valves meet pistons on the first start is a win for me. whether this solves the issues I had with this engine since the beginning remains to be seen. I'll need to have a test drive. One thing I noticed is that driver side exhaust muffler's tip is not shaking as it did before. Anyways, need to scan the codes, check the fuel trims and drive it already.

[JRYtheS4]

Thanks! I suppose messing with engine's timing and not having valves meet pistons on the first start is a win for me. whether this solves the issues I had with this engine since the beginning remains to be seen. I'll need to have a test drive. One thing I noticed is that driver side exhaust muffler's tip is not shaking as it did before. Anyways, need to scan the codes, check the fuel trims and drive it already.Oil change didn't really decrease my rattles so I'm probably going to park mine until it gets warmer and start buying parts in the meantime. I still have my original clutch so I might just pull the trans and do the whole timing job instead of just the tensioners. Going be an expensive year!



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