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View Full Version : My CTapp Software is in! OMFFFGG!!!



94jedi
09-29-2006, 06:58 AM
Ok, I finished up at about 1am last night. I've only tried the car at 15psi and it's a monster. my turbo is a tad bit laggy but I expected that going in. it's a t3/t4 50trim .48 a/r. I'm currently running the NGK bk6re's but according to CTapp, I should be running the 7e's so I'll be doing that this weekend. The car starts up a bit rough but I've got a few things I need to take care of to remedy that such as the intake setup, DV hoses(I think they're slightly kinked) and plugs. Other than that, the car rips at WOT but is as docile as a camry at pt throttle and cruising.

I set the fuel pressure with the vac hose off the reg. I set the press to about 43.5 psi ~3 bar per CTapp instructions. Is this the right way? Of course, when I plugged the vac hose back in, the press on the gauge went up and over 3bar.

The only thing that's bugging me about this is the roughness at startup and the bouncing idle when I come to a stop. I either have a leak in the intake tract or a kinked DV hose somewhere. This is obviously just a preliminary review. I still ahve much logging to do and I'm hoping my car adapts to the new ecu with time. Funny thing was that after a WOT run, the car shut off on me and wouldn't start back up. I had to do a vag TBA and then finally it started back up. I've got a few things to talk to chris about but overall I'm very pleased I'm going to try ~19psi tonight!

MR VTEC
09-29-2006, 07:05 AM
congrats pat. [up] now for some one piece headlights [:p]

LateraLex
09-29-2006, 07:07 AM
Wooooooo

k0mpresd
09-29-2006, 07:14 AM
fuel pressure should drop when you reattach the vacuum line

did you t off the white or blue line for the gauge?

audisnapr
09-29-2006, 07:23 AM
nice Pat - only wish you had recieved your programming last week sometime (as do you) so we could have done some back road racing - those roads out there are sure nice. Keep us posted. We all of course want to see some logs so we can pick it apart like everyone else's. Thank god for that Stage5 clutch.

marcini
09-29-2006, 07:39 AM
sounds like you might have boost leak, causing your car to stall after wot.

Don Supreme
09-29-2006, 07:41 AM
Sweet......... I want a ride soon.

k0mpresd
09-29-2006, 07:51 AM
and do you have the wideband installed yet?

audisnapr
09-29-2006, 08:30 AM
yes he does

alen
09-29-2006, 08:34 AM
good to hear Pat!!

94jedi
09-29-2006, 08:54 AM
Ok, lets see I'll try to answer all the qestions...

MR VTEC - I can't afford 1pc HL's right now and not for a loooong time

k0mpressed- I T'd off of the smae line you had had pictured and I searched around and everyone else used the same line. Funny thing is that the fuel pressure went UP w/ the vac line attached. did I do something wrong?

audisnapr - yeah I wish I had my s/w last week. would've been fun...you have to come down to visit again so we can tear up the my rural community hahaha- BTW, you had me looking for the "phantom brake pedal" a few times when you were driving. [drive]

Marcini- you think a boost leak would cause the car dying? maybe the 710N DV just isn't up to par. When the boost hits, it's almost violent.

Don Supreme- I'll get up w/ you soon for a meet or something.

k0mpressed- I don't have the wideband in the bung anymore. Unfortunately, I only have one bung in the test/down pipe. I had to take the WB out to put the primary back in per CTapp's advice. It's either that or I figure out how to get the primary lead from the plx controller box to work with the stock primary narrow band. My only other option is to have another bung installed.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 09:01 AM
Couple of questions guys- which blocks should I be logging? CTapp said 20 and 3....anything else I should be logging? I don't mind doind several pulls and logging my ass off, I want my car to run well and run hard.

marcini
09-29-2006, 09:19 AM
i know i had my car stall when i had significant boost leaks, blown off dv valve or hose on the turbo.

just for shits and giggles take readings(dont log) from block 032 after you drove the car for a while with out reseting the ecu.

log:

003, 020
002, 031
003, 026

mike-2ptzero
09-29-2006, 09:21 AM
Something doesn't sound right if your fuel pressure goes up during idle when you put the vac line back on. When vacuum is applied to the FPR it pulls the plunger up causing it to allow more fuel to flow thru it and this causing the pressure before the FPR to be lower. You are still using the vac line that connects to the intake manifold right? Only way I could see the gauge going up was if there is pressure in that vac line or the gauge is on the right fuel line. The fuel line you want it in is the one that runs directly to the fuel rail towards the front of the car, the one under the fpr is the return line.

b00st
09-29-2006, 09:28 AM
bout fvcking time PAT, congrats! [up]

i used to have that bouncing idle problem when i came to a stop.
it was a combo of my MAF and spark plugs....swapping out the plugs took most of it away and then cleaning the MAF fixed the rest for the most part. when i got the new MAF in....never had the problem since.

bitterchild
09-29-2006, 09:32 AM
032 won't come up w/ useful readings for awhile. you need to watch the vacuum gauge to see how the car is correcting for idle. Also as mentioned the FPR is all wrong.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by b00st
bout fvcking time PAT, congrats! [up]

i used to have that bouncing idle problem when i came to a stop.
it was a combo of my MAF and spark plugs....swapping out the plugs took most of it away and then cleaning the MAF fixed the rest for the most part. when i got the new MAF in....never had the problem since. Ok, gonna be changing the plugs tonight...The maf is a 90mm ford lightning unit...maybe it's dirty?
I'll try the alcohol clean trick.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
fuel pressure should drop when you reattach the vacuum line

did you t off the white or blue line for the gauge?

I just looked at it- it's the line with the white marks on it. I was under the impression the blue line is the return line.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
fuel pressure should drop when you reattach the vacuum line


Ian, you're correct. I goofed- fuel press. does drop when I connect the vac line and when I disco it, the press rises to ~43.5, which is what I set it at.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by bitterchild
032 won't come up w/ useful readings for awhile. you need to watch the vacuum gauge to see how the car is correcting for idle. Also as mentioned the FPR is all wrong.

I'm watching the gauge, and it bounces between 20-22 in hg of vac.

What I don't know is what that means. Vac leak?

mike-2ptzero
09-29-2006, 09:55 AM
Are you still running the stock fuel rail? If so just make sure you didn't install the gauge on the line that runs to the fuel rail where the fpr sits.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
Are you still running the stock fuel rail? If so just make sure you didn't install the gauge on the line that runs to the fuel rail where the fpr sits.

Mike, yes still on the stock fuel rail although after a small mishap- I need a new one but back on topic, the gauge is on the proper line.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/94jedi/fprgau.jpg

please excuse the blue zipties, they're to keep the gauge from being hit by the hood when closed.

k0mpresd
09-29-2006, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by 94jedi
k0mpressed- I T'd off of the smae line you had had pictured and I searched around and everyone else used the same line. Funny thing is that the fuel pressure went UP w/ the vac line attached. did I do something wrong?

k0mpressed- I don't have the wideband in the bung anymore. Unfortunately, I only have one bung in the test/down pipe. I had to take the WB out to put the primary back in per CTapp's advice. It's either that or I figure out how to get the primary lead from the plx controller box to work with the stock primary narrow band. My only other option is to have another bung installed.
something sounds off...the fuel pressure should be set w/ the vacuum disconnected and you should watch the gauge drop, not rise, when you reconnect the vacuum...i would assume it pulls the fpr closed w/ the vacuum attached...which means less fuel pressure...i say assume because i dont really *know* how fpr's work..never taken nor seen one apart before

as far as the o2 stuff goes..you can run the output wire from the plx (i cant remember the color right off hand) to the signal wire for the ecu and run the wideband in the d/p and feed the ecu w/ the output signal from the controller

i personally cut the connector off my stock sensor plugged it into the harness in the engine bay and ran the signal wire from the controller to the black wire on the o2 connector...since black is the signal to the ecu..you will have an o2 heater code but that method does *work*

my plx stopped sending out a 0-1v output signal..that is why i now have 2 bungs/2 o2's

edit: just read a couple posts above...glad its working correctly [up]

94jedi
09-29-2006, 10:21 AM
yep, you guys are right, the press drop when I reco the vac line. my goof.

BranCKY3
09-29-2006, 10:38 AM
What injectors are you using with that?

Any track visits in your near future?

94jedi
09-29-2006, 11:46 AM
I'm using Siemens Deka 630cc injects...I'll post pics of the whole setup later.

I hope to get a track visit in next weekend.

k0mpresd
09-29-2006, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by 94jedi
I'm watching the gauge, and it bounces between 20-22 in hg of vac.

What I don't know is what that means. Vac leak?
20-22 sounds normal

could be the ecu dapting to everything

my car idles like butter 95% of the time w/ those 630's

marcini
09-29-2006, 12:43 PM
kompressed:

did you ever figure out your MAF frying issue?

k0mpresd
09-29-2006, 01:02 PM
i wish

it seems to have cleared up for the time being though *knock on wood*

94jedi
09-29-2006, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
20-22 sounds normal

could be the ecu dapting to everything

my car idles like butter 95% of the time w/ those 630's

Yea but the thing is it tends to bounce a bit.

so is it possible the ECU is going to take some time to adapt? I haven't looked at my plugs but I'm pretty sure they're fubared. And why the EFF does nobody stock BKR7E's???

k0mpresd
09-29-2006, 01:38 PM
bouncing could be a result of the ecu trying to adapt or your plugs being dirty...doesnt really sound like a leak..could be a small leak....you need the wideband hooked up...can you feel it misfiring when it bounces?

some advance stores stock bkr7e's, stock #6097

MR VTEC
09-29-2006, 01:43 PM
i called ecs this morning i think they have in stock.
$2.25 / per plug
but shipping might be a bitch.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
bouncing could be a result of the ecu trying to adapt or your plugs being dirty...doesnt really sound like a leak..could be a small leak....you need the wideband hooked up...can you feel it misfiring when it bounces?

some advance stores stock bkr7e's, stock #6097

damn thanks for the tip fellas, calling them right now.

I do feel it misfiring a bit....it's like a little shake or stumble in the idle.

Bigjuice
09-29-2006, 01:48 PM
Congrats Jedi[up]

94jedi
09-29-2006, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Bigjuice
Congrats Jedi[up]

Thanks Sean!!!



well, I just bought 2 sets of BKR7E's...hell I should've bought 4 sets.

BJC
09-29-2006, 03:00 PM
Jedi... It looks like im going with Chris Tapp's software also, but for the GT28RS. He told me that i need to run the Ford lightning MAF aswell, my question is, what are you using for a TIP to fit the MAF?

And what turbo are you running?

BJC
09-29-2006, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by bitterchild
032 won't come up w/ useful readings for awhile. you need to watch the vacuum gauge to see how the car is correcting for idle. Also as mentioned the FPR is all wrong.

Did you get my PM from a couple of days ago?

Emil@RENN-ART
09-29-2006, 03:25 PM
can you show a picture of your setup? i have a feeling it's got something to do with where your maf is in relation to your turbo... that's a common issue. could also be the huge maf you're using. is this custom tuned for you on your specific car (the tuner actually tuning your car) or just a tune through the mail based on the specs you informed the tuner about?

sweet that you got it going bud!

[up]

BJC
09-29-2006, 03:36 PM
I love seeing other tuners giving input on the forums even when it isnt their product.[up]

94jedi
09-29-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Emil@RENN-ART
can you show a picture of your setup? i have a feeling it's got something to do with where your maf is in relation to your turbo... that's a common issue. could also be the huge maf you're using. is this custom tuned for you on your specific car (the tuner actually tuning your car) or just a tune through the mail based on the specs you informed the tuner about?

sweet that you got it going bud!

[up]

Here's my intake. it's pretty standard compared to the other setups I've seen. There's just not much room in there. I do have to tweak it a bit so my headlight fits better.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/94jedi/DSC02526.jpg

94jedi
09-29-2006, 04:52 PM
here's everything the CTapp s/w needs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/94jedi/DSC02524.jpg
and a pic of the ecu
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/94jedi/DSC02522.jpg

Eurotuned_A4
09-29-2006, 04:55 PM
nice jedi. hopefully you get things straightened out. that MAF makes the ecu look so small.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by BJC
Jedi... It looks like im going with Chris Tapp's software also, but for the GT28RS. He told me that i need to run the Ford lightning MAF aswell, my question is, what are you using for a TIP to fit the MAF?

And what turbo are you running?

BJC- it's a t3/t4 50 trim. CTapp based the software off his 3071 file and made some tweaks from there.

The TIP is a real pain. from the turbo, I have a modifed j bend silicone hose, coupled to a 45*~ish 3" aluminum pipe w/ the DV bung in it, then a 3->4" step up coupler, then the maf and then the shortest k&N I could find.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Emil@RENN-ART
can you show a picture of your setup? i have a feeling it's got something to do with where your maf is in relation to your turbo... that's a common issue. could also be the huge maf you're using. is this custom tuned for you on your specific car (the tuner actually tuning your car) or just a tune through the mail based on the specs you informed the tuner about?

sweet that you got it going bud!

[up]

Emil, thanks for the help- just goes to show we need more tuners in the community like you.

The maf is in the only place it can go really. I spoke to Chris this afternoon and he says that other cars don't suffer from the same issues. His tune is about as custom as a "mail order tune" can be. It's based off his 3071 file and tweaked from there for my specs.

audisnapr
09-29-2006, 06:56 PM
Pat, Emil could have a point - a lot of guys get weird MAF issues because their MAF sensor is right after their filter. Your setup would take that to the next level since you have that massive 4" MAF housing. You are probably getting a ton of turbulant air going past your sensor. There's really no room for the air to straighten out before it passes by the sensor.

Is it possible to to cut the TIP pipe shorter, move the MAF housing down 3-5" and add a short piece of 4" pipe between the MAF and the filter?

94jedi
09-29-2006, 07:01 PM
^thanks Joe, bitterchild mentioned somthing about that. I'm going to look into redoing my intake. I'm about to start it up after a plug change so we'll see what happens. I asked Chris something along those lines and he says he always just puts a filter on the end of maf housing and never has a problem. My car is a bit ghetto so I'm going to make sure I rule out all the strange crappy stuff.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by audisnapr
Is it possible to to cut the TIP pipe shorter, move the MAF housing down 3-5" and add a short piece of 4" pipe between the MAF and the filter?

only way really would be to add an elbow at the end of the maf and put the filter pointing up but that would defeat the whole purpose....there's just very little room.

94jedi
09-29-2006, 08:03 PM
well, the car loves the 7E's. very nice idle, very little bouncing idle. Now the problem is the car won't really boost over 15psi or so. I can get it to peak a bit higher but it won't really hold anymore boost than 15psi. I guess I'm leaking/loosing boost somewhere. Any ideas on that? is it a crappy MBC maybe? I do have a 710N DV, maybe this turbo is just too much for it? could it be bleeding boost?

b00st
09-29-2006, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
is it a crappy MBC maybe? I do have a 710N DV, maybe this turbo is just too much for it? could it be bleeding boost?

could be any or all of those combinations.

maybe some logging would help. 710N might be a little weak...maybe not. i know people run them w/21psi but 21psi k04 style and 21psi T3T4 style are too different things [:p] not that you've hit 21psi yet but you get my point.

what's your vac at now? still idling the same? if its still the same, might only be a small tear somewhere under pressure. but it could be all of the above working against you.

i think the easiest swap out be be a strong DV to check. if its still the same you can move on and check the mbc. or do a pressure test.

hey4
09-29-2006, 09:04 PM
I have the same problem. I think it might be my mbc. I swear I've screwed that thing very far and still nothing, occasionally I'll get my car to bog down at redline. Will try another one soon. BTW my air intake is setup almost identical to yours. Idle was crappy at first but has dramatically impoved now even though I run crappy NGKs that came out the passat, almost like driving a stock car. Most people wouldn't even notice. Did you do a TBA after the install. That will also help with the idle.

BranCKY3
09-29-2006, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by b00st
710N might be a little weak...maybe not. i know people run them w/21psi but 21psi k04 style and 21psi T3T4 style are too different things [:p] not that you've hit 21psi yet but you get my point.

Bah... I have been running my 710N for over a year with 0 problems. First on a k04 at 20psi now on a gt2871r at 23psi.

nAUDI
09-29-2006, 09:30 PM
looks like you dont have a cat. you can use a exhaust clamp like I do for your wideband placement. its completely temporary.

and pick up the 7e's at a napa or something, why are you ordering it and paying for shipping?

k0mpresd
09-29-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by 94jedi
Now the problem is the car won't really boost over 15psi or so. I can get it to peak a bit higher but it won't really hold anymore boost than 15psi.
was it boosting higher and now its not or it just wont go past 15psi period?

what kind of mbc?

Ray Khan
09-30-2006, 03:49 AM
I am not DBC, but shouldn't the POS be mounted parallel to the ground like it would be on top of the airbox to avoid pre mature issues? Just a thought. Maybe it's unrelated to your current idle issues, but perhaps something to think about moving forward.

As far as boost goes, Kompressed had my question. If the answer is no, perhaps your wastegate just isn't adjusted properly? I know a few people with ATP turbo have this issue. I sorta do....I'm at the limit right now running about 22 psi. My boost controller couldn't give me more. I'll probably tighten up the wastegate rod when I do the timing belt. I wouldn't jump to do this in your case, but if all else fails, it could be something to consider.

94jedi
09-30-2006, 06:54 AM
b00st - vac is still the same. in fact, after the plug swap, the idle /vac corrections stabilized greatly. It's now right at 21 in hg.

hey4- I don't think it's the MBC. It's a brass ball/spring unit. there's not alot of room for failure there. It either works or it doesn't, right? I did buy it off ebay. it's a Voodoo MBC. It seems like the ecu has adapted somewhat and the plugs have also helped alot.

BrankCKY3- My car sat for almost 6 months from feb to July. With that kind of temp changes I wonder if the DV diaphragm became brittle??? I have heard of 710N's failing.

nAUDI- do you mean putting the WB at the end of the tailpipe? I purchased the plugs at my local advanced auto.

k0mpressed- It never really went past 15psi. last night was the first time I tried to take it up to ~17 and it wouldn't go past 15. It's a simple brass ball/spring MBC off ebay. it's a Voodoo MBC. I just don't see this as a point of failure but I could certainly be wrong.

RayKhan- I'm not sure what you mean by POS...I had my stock intake setup the same way w/o a single problem. The WG question is plausible- I have the WG set at 4 psi right now. it was loosened from what ever it was when it was new. maybe I should adjust that?

mike-2ptzero
09-30-2006, 08:20 AM
Ever thought of going to a EBC vs the MBC you are running?

TomRitt18944
09-30-2006, 08:20 AM
Well deserved Pat! You prolly did more research and brain picking than 99% of other bt ppl which is what its all about. congrats man :)

94jedi
09-30-2006, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by TomRitt18944
Well deserved Pat! You prolly did more research and brain picking than 99% of other bt ppl which is what its all about. congrats man :)

thanks Tom, especially for letting me pick your brain along the way. haha. this has been a long time coming...I'm happy at 15psi- but I know I'll be used to it in a few days. then after I get used to 20psi, I'll be running race gas all the time at 25 psi! [eek]

94jedi
09-30-2006, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
Ever thought of going to a EBC vs the MBC you are running?

I have, actually. but they're expensive and I still have a few other small things I need to buy. I have a feeling that's on the horizon.

mike-2ptzero
09-30-2006, 08:38 AM
I might be selling my HKS EVC4, I might have to upgrade since it might not allow me to run over 35psi of boost but I wont find out if that is true till I try pushing it that high.

k0mpresd
09-30-2006, 08:38 AM
start troubleshooting

crank the mbc all the way down and see what happens to boost then

start w/ the small stuff first

and fwiw, i bought the cheapest mbc on ebay i could find, it was like $9..works perfect

TomRitt18944
09-30-2006, 08:55 AM
Be careful with that cheap one, i had that one once, and after my car sat for about 3 weeks, i got in, went wot, and through a rod from overboosting... the "stainless steel" ball was rusted in place and the boost controller never opened :(

k0mpresd
09-30-2006, 09:04 AM
yes..i should have added in my previous post be very careful and easy on the throttle when youre playing around w/ the mbc

TomRitt18944
09-30-2006, 09:20 AM
Yea thats true too those are very finiky, honestly I wouldnt use that kind, i had it all set and dialed in and it still cause a catastrophe costing my about $2500 from a stupid $10 controller

audisnapr
09-30-2006, 09:34 AM
Mike, you think you are gonna be going with the World Motorsport PBC? I picked it up after our discussion on one of the other threads. I'm in the process of re-wiring my entire center console, ie: gauges, headunit, PBC, wideband, etc. I'll let you guys know how the EBC works out once it's all done.

Pat - I'm not 100% sure I'll have this EBC done this weekend, but if I do, I can send you my TurboXS MBC on monday for you to borrow (as long as you need) until you can pick up something different. This MBC has two set screws, one for big movements, and one for fine tuning. Haven't had any problems with it. I'll let you know.

94jedi
09-30-2006, 10:20 AM
Thanks for the offer Joe! I may take you up on that if it turns out to be my egay MBC.

Mike H. - Keep me in mind if you do sell that EBC. I'll buy it.

k0mpressed and Tom- you guys are scaring the isht out of me w/ this MBC lol.

94jedi
09-30-2006, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by k0mpresd
start troubleshooting

crank the mbc all the way down and see what happens to boost then

start w/ the small stuff first

and fwiw, i bought the cheapest mbc on ebay i could find, it was like $9..works perfect

when you say crank it down, I'm assuming you mean actual boost right? because actually cranking the mbc down increases boost- supposedly(POS $15 egay MBC[mad] ).

audisnapr
09-30-2006, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by 94jedi
k0mpressed and Tom- you guys are scaring the isht out of me w/ this MBC lol.

haha - welcome to the "New BT Owner" club where every move is potentially catastrophic.

Emil@RENN-ART
09-30-2006, 11:30 AM
yep.. you definitely need to exdend that intake ducting. a few more inches makes a big difference. this was the big problem with the old ATP kit.. couldn't keep the idle with that short downturn it had. if you extended it though it worked fine.

the 15psi could be just your wastegate boost. are you sure your mbc is hooked up correctly?

94jedi
09-30-2006, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Emil@RENN-ART
yep.. you definitely need to exdend that intake ducting. a few more inches makes a big difference. this was the big problem with the old ATP kit.. couldn't keep the idle with that short downturn it had. if you extended it though it worked fine.

the 15psi could be just your wastegate boost. are you sure your mbc is hooked up correctly? You mean extend the space from the filter to the maf?

my WG is set to 4psi. That's what I ran w/ before I put the MBC in. TheMBC will allow me to turn down the boost to next to nothing but it won't allow much more thna 15psi. not sure if that's the MBC's fault or not.

mike-2ptzero
09-30-2006, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by audisnapr
Mike, you think you are gonna be going with the World Motorsport PBC? I picked it up after our discussion on one of the other threads. I'm in the process of re-wiring my entire center console, ie: gauges, headunit, PBC, wideband, etc. I'll let you guys know how the EBC works out once it's all done.

Pat - I'm not 100% sure I'll have this EBC done this weekend, but if I do, I can send you my TurboXS MBC on monday for you to borrow (as long as you need) until you can pick up something different. This MBC has two set screws, one for big movements, and one for fine tuning. Haven't had any problems with it. I'll let you know.


Most likely since I would really like to push this turbo to the limit.Let me know how it works out.

Bigjuice
09-30-2006, 12:01 PM
Pat,
I had a similar problem with controlling the boost. I solved it by using an EBC.
I have the 1st gen Profec B, & it works great.
I'm not a lover of the fuzzy logic controllers but whatever works for you.