Help Diagnosing MMI Issues

[AdamChach]

Hi everyone,

Starting a couple years ago my MMI would freeze/shut down on hot days. I couldn't access car systems, change music, volume, etc. Since then I replaced the screen and installed an RSNav shortly after hoping it would alleviate my problem.

This was something I could live with and everything would work fine after the a/c was on and cooled the car down. Starting a few days ago it started freezing/hang for quite a long time before forcing itself to reboot (about 25-30) mins. It's got to the point where I got into my car this morning and it immediately froze when putting the car in reverse and the camera turned on. [My drive home last night it would freeze, immediately restart & repeat every 2 minutes.] I'm assuming it's an overheating issue but can say for sure, maybe faulty fiber cable? Working now and can run codes later today, but since I have RSNav I don't know if there will be a lot of false positives. I know about the force reset 'button combo' as well.

Anyone had this issue before? Its extremely annoying and cannot access any car's systems while it's down. I also live in the northeast so it's not like our summers are particularly bad here.

2012 A6: MMI 3G+

[Alabama]

Working now and can run codes later today, but since I have RSNav I don't know if there will be a lot of false positives. I know about the force reset 'button combo' as well.

Maybe also post a screen shot of the version of MMI software/database to help the smart folk here. How hot can the car be first thing in the morning?

[AdamChach]

Maybe also post a screen shot of the version of MMI software/database to help the smart folk here. How hot can the car be first thing in the morning?

Will do, if I can get to the menu before it locks up on me. And not hot at all, that's why I'm concerned now. Ambient temps this morning were high 60F. Driving home last night was cool as well.

[AdamChach]

Ran a scan & copied anything related to the radio/speakers. May have some false positives since I have RSNav, but maybe someone with a better eye than me can tell what my issue is. I'm leaning towards replacing the 5F module. I am unable to get to the version information menu in time before the MMI freezes.

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
0E-Media Player 1 -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
28-HVAC, Rear -- Status: Malfunction 0010
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
3B-Sensor Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
3C-Lane Change -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: Malfunction 0010
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
8F-Pretens. Frt Left -- Status: OK 0000
90-Pretens. Frt Right -- Status: OK 0000


Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels:| 4H0-907-468.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 907 468 G HW: 4G0 907 468 A
Component: J533--Gateway H08 0214
Revision: -------- Serial number: 00000000308068
Coding: 00C1033000
Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
GVL: FDE1E84CFE62600D00
ASAM Dataset: EV_GatewUDS 001025
ROD: EV_GatewUDS_AU57.rod
VCID: 343114F9EEB1AAEB739-8060

Battery Monitoring Control Module:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8X0 915 181 HW: 8X0 915 181
Component: J367-BDM H07 0141
Serial number: 00000000003790110970

1 Fault Found:
0269 - Optical data bus
U104A 00 [008] - No Communication
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 28
Reset counter: 241
Mileage: 192071 km
Date: 2022.07.22
Time: 16:09:56

Voltage terminal 30: 12.4 V
Voltage terminal 15: 0.0 V
Control Module temperature: 37 °C
System status: Awake_Timer_active
IN ESP_standstill flag: standstill detected
Engine running: OFF
IN ZAS_Te_X: OFF
Terminal 15 status via CAN: OFF
Terminal 15 status: OFF
Datenfeld: 0



Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794) Labels:. 4E0-035-6xx-5F.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 035 746 H HW: 4G0 035 746
Component: H-BNT-NA H48 0902
Revision: -------- Serial number: 031KX0B7519432
Coding: 050200000003E1EF55128B3E00000003100001000000000000
Shop #: WSC 22803 444 183823
VCID: 2C010C993601F22B2B9-8078

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8R0 060 884 AD
Component: NAR 2011 0505

Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 4G1 919 610 C HW: 4G1 919 610 C
Component: E380 BDT C7 H11 0204
Serial number: 90349KKC0005R

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8R0 060 961 B
Component: CD-Database 3371

5 Faults Found:
00658 - Control Head
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 241
Mileage: 182436 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2022.01.12
Time: 09:51:52

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 12.10 V

00658 - Control Head
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 230
Mileage: 192372 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2022.07.27
Time: 18:10:55

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 13.00 V
Bin. Bits: 010

03389 - Data Set Implausible
000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 22
Mileage: 182436 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2022.01.12
Time: 09:47:13

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 11.90 V
Bin. Bits: 010

02259 - Information Display and Control Head (Front) (J685)
004 - No Signal/Communication
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100100
Fault Priority: 5
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 22
Mileage: 182436 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2022.01.12
Time: 09:47:16

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 11.80 V

03787 - Rotation Mechanism for Display Module Front
011 - Open Circuit
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101011
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 201
Mileage: 182436 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2022.01.12
Time: 09:47:12

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 11.90 V

[sepheroth86]

I had a somewhat similar issue when my amplifier was bad.

It would start up and run for a time then shut off. Sometimes I could restart it and it would work. Other times it would just shut back down.

[Alabama]

Ran a scan & copied anything related to the radio/speakers. May have some false positives since I have RSNav, but maybe someone with a better eye than me can tell what my issue is. I'm leaning towards replacing the 5F module. I am unable to get to the version information menu in time before the MMI freezes.

I'm not the expert in reading VCDS printout, but many AZ folk will comment that when there are multiple malfunctions listed in a variety of systems, a possible cause may be a battery that is not maintaining consistent voltage. Especially as it's simple and cheap to do, you might want to get your battery tested.

[AdamChach]

I'm not the expert in reading VCDS printout, but many AZ folk will comment that when there are multiple malfunctions listed in a variety of systems, a possible cause may be a battery that is not maintaining consistent voltage. Especially as it's simple and cheap to do, you might want to get your battery tested.

It's a strange one for sure. I don't think it's the battery as it's less than a year old and properly coded. Doesn't hurt to try.

As an update - the MMI no longer works, it will boot, but immediately freeze shortly thereafter and not be functional until I turn the car off. Rinse & Repeat. I have no problem changing a module/amp/optical wire but I want to make sure I know what the issue is before I start spending money on parts.

[sepheroth86]

Give these guys a shout to see if they can help.

https://paulisoncorpserv.com/

I used them and even when I had issues after the fact they were extremely helpful.

[Alabama]

I used them and even when I had issues after the fact they were extremely helpful.

What did you consider when deciding between repairing the original amp versus replacing with an aftermarket (and better according to some AZ members) amp?

[sepheroth86]

What did you consider when deciding between repairing the original amp versus replacing with an aftermarket (and better according to some AZ members) amp?

I didn't want to buy $1000 worth of converters to adapt the fibre optics. Then spend another $1000+ to buy new amplifiers. Then another $1000+ on new speakers.

Repairing the factory amplifier was somewhere in the $300 range.

[AdamChach]

Give these guys a shout to see if they can help.

https://paulisoncorpserv.com/

I used them and even when I had issues after the fact they were extremely helpful.

I sent them a message. If it's the amp I will probably go that route. I priced out come parts on eBay and I can theoretically get the 5F, cam bus and amp for around $500, which isn't bad.

[AdamChach]

I also found a way to replicate the issue. It seems to happen every time I put the car in reverse and the camera turns on. It was working fine until I pulled into work and put the car in reverse. So it seems to be heat and camera related. I have an appointment in a few weeks to find the cause. Id rather not wait that long if I can help it.

[sepheroth86]

I sent them a message. If it's the amp I will probably go that route. I priced out come parts on eBay and I can theoretically get the 5F, cam bus and amp for around $500, which isn't bad.

All of these will require ODIS coding after the fact. So make sure to account for that in your costs.

[Alabama]

I also found a way to replicate the issue. It seems to happen every time I put the car in reverse and the camera turns on. It was working fine until I pulled into work and put the car in reverse. So it seems to be heat and camera related. I have an appointment in a few weeks to find the cause. Id rather not wait that long if I can help it.

At least you can get the software numbers. Your VCDS scan gave a pass to 6C (back up camera), and I thought in other threads when folks' back up cameras go out, their MMI still functions otherwise. Maybe you should follow the Maine state motto and always drive in a forward gear!

[AdamChach]

Reviving my old thread to see if anyone has or had the same issue I'm experiencing. Still happening almost 2 years later [:|] I can't seem to get anyone (dealerships/indy shops) to be able to replicate the issue and nothing gets fixed. Should my next move be a car audio place?

[MyDimeIsUp]

Man this is an odd one. When I'm programming I can just put a bunch of print statements or breakpoints, obviously can't do that here lol. I'd really try to isolate exactly when this happens. You said when you go into reverse so maybe something related to the wiring related to reverse camera? If its other situations then isolate exactly when it happens.

Its hard when someone says "The program/game crashed" and I ask when and how and they'll just say "When I was viewing x,y,z". What menu did you have open? Did you previously click a button? What exact steps did you take to get to the menu?

I think these would be good steps to take. Maybe when you start the car don't even interact with MMI. Just let it boot up and then go into reverse. Does it crash then? How about if you start the car after the modules have gone to sleep and drive without going into reverse? What about smooth roads vs bumpy roads? What about if you let all modules go to sleep, start the car and just let idle without interacting with anything (I'd say before you even start the car, flip the door latch so the car thinks the door is closed, then start). Once you feel like you have a concrete idea of exactly when and how it crashes, that's when you can narrow down the systems/wires to diag.

If none of that works, IMO it may just be the hard drive. They used mechanical hard drives with spinning disks and a head. Maybe with enough read/write cycles its getting old or the head may have scratched the disk (not likely but at this point doesn't hurt to not rule it out.) I know some people have upgraded to SSDs with no mechanical moving parts because they're a lot faster and also reduce the likelihood of any damage while driving. But again that's my opinion, I've never seen/heard of this before.

[AdamChach]

Man this is an odd one. When I'm programming I can just put a bunch of print statements or breakpoints, obviously can't do that here lol. I'd really try to isolate exactly when this happens. You said when you go into reverse so maybe something related to the wiring related to reverse camera? If its other situations then isolate exactly when it happens.

Its hard when someone says "The program/game crashed" and I ask when and how and they'll just say "When I was viewing x,y,z". What menu did you have open? Did you previously click a button? What exact steps did you take to get to the menu?

I think these would be good steps to take. Maybe when you start the car don't even interact with MMI. Just let it boot up and then go into reverse. Does it crash then? How about if you start the car after the modules have gone to sleep and drive without going into reverse? What about smooth roads vs bumpy roads? What about if you let all modules go to sleep, start the car and just let idle without interacting with anything (I'd say before you even start the car, flip the door latch so the car thinks the door is closed, then start). Once you feel like you have a concrete idea of exactly when and how it crashes, that's when you can narrow down the systems/wires to diag.

If none of that works, IMO it may just be the hard drive. They used mechanical hard drives with spinning disks and a head. Maybe with enough read/write cycles its getting old or the head may have scratched the disk (not likely but at this point doesn't hurt to not rule it out.) I know some people have upgraded to SSDs with no mechanical moving parts because they're a lot faster and also reduce the likelihood of any damage while driving. But again that's my opinion, I've never seen/heard of this before.

Thanks for your insight, I never really thought of trying to diagnose that way. I'll see if I can try to isolate systems, who knows, maybe that will give me a better way of either trying to explain the issue or have a shop replicate it! I did see those posts about swapping the hard drive, doesn't look too painful of a swap. So maybe I'll do that to at least rule that option out. I did purchase a used radio off eBay that I was thinking of swapping too, will need Audi to remove component protection though. in any case, here's a general idea of what happens, I don't have a lot of "new" data, the car has been in and out of the shop the last couple years, first a new engine, then an accidnt with a deer. The car is finally perfect, so it's only this annoying thing that has been bothering me for yearsss.

My setup:
2012 A6 Prestige
Bose Sound
RSNAV S3 Unit
JL Audio powered subwoofer box (subwoofer signal is spliced directly into the stock subwoofer. Stock subwoofer is unplugged)
AudioControl LC2i line output converter


How/What happens to MMI:
1) start the car up, MMI always works, start driving
2) sometimes its fine - I go about my day
3) When it does malfunction (I believe related to heat) the system will freeze. I lose all access to sound, no buttons register on the center console related to MMI. Whatever is playing (song, etc.) will continue to play until the unit ultimately shuts down.
4) Upon restart the splash screen (the Audi logo with the A6 spotlight thingy) will sometimes look weird. It's hard to explain, like the splash screen will have a red tint. It's strange. 9 times out of 10, when that happens the system will just hang there, eventually forcing another restart. Rinse & repeat, sometimes it works, sometimes not.
5) when the system freezes, sometimes its just the static image of what I was last on (car play, nav map, etc.) others it looks like a fizzy old school TV screen, other times it just goes to black.
5) Eventually the system will restart normally, sometimes it take a couple minutes to return to normal, others 25-30 minutes. I've had a couple occasions on long drives, the system would freeze, and didn't return to normal operation for an hour or 1.5hrs. Hard (button combo) resets sometimes speed up the recovery time of the MMI unit, but it hasn't really been helpful in my case.
6) When I last posted about this topic, it was pretty consistent it would fail when I put the car in reverse and the back-up camera loaded up. That's not so much the case anymore. The only constant seems to be heat. I've tols shops that, but I just don't think they're driving long enough, or the MMI knows it's being watched and behaves for once. Who knows.


Things that could be the problem?
I do notice that this happens FAR more often when its hot in the summer. I've had it fail in the winter with the heat on, but generally it's fine for the most part.
The longer I drive the car, the more likely it will eventually happen. Commute to work (under an hour drive - I would say 20% chance given the outside temp) Further drives (longer than 2hrs. - 60-70% failure rate)
I notice it doesn't happen as often at night (again heat - maybe?)
Is there an issue with my wiring with the sub? I do notice that when I shut the car off, I do hear a pop pop pop bass noise after a minute or so coming from the sub, as if the LC2i unit is shutting down, maybe sending a weird signal to the sub?
Factory amp is untouched and stock, same with Bose speakers
Issue was still occurring before the RSNAV unit, part of the reason I got one was to hopefully get rid of the issue. Great unit though, highly recommended.

Any ideas, no matter how far-fetched are helpful, so keep them coming. Hopefully if this gets solved it will be great info for anyone else with a similar issue down the line.

[AdamChach]

8/20/2024 Update:

OP here: just wanted to update this thread in case anyone comes across the same issue in the future by searching google or whatever.

I ended up replacing the radio itself. In my case, part#4G0035746C. My dealership give me some flack about installing it myself and how they might run into issues removing the component protection because of unknown issues, software, yada, yada. $180 to remove the protection and I was on my way. This was about a month ago, and it seemed to fix the issue! I think the radio itself was just on it's way out for a long time and just would die when it got even remotely hot. The only think I'm noticing is now the Bluetooth takes a long time to connect (about 4 minutes - I've timed it lol). No idea why, I cleared all factory settings. But in any case, a tradeoff I'm more than willing to make to finally have this fixed!

[Avantly]

That module IIRC uses freescale iMX6 microcontroller in BGA package, I wonder if the iMX or its FLASH is experiencing a solder joint failure issue (or tin whisker growth from our wonderful friend lead free solder+electromigration) and just need to be reballed. To troubleshoot the old one I'd open it up and find and probe all power rails to make sure they were stable and without excessive ripple, look for any components getting excessively hot with thermal camera, and make sure the fan was working (it seems like this generation had a fan but I can't remember). I realize this is something that many would not attempt but given the age I'd highly suspect issues with one of the BGA chips. This is becoming extremely common in pretty much anything made after the late 2000's/early 2010's.