Magnuson 1740

[QuattroJ]

I have read over 1,500 posts in the past week on this subject. I had to copy things to a word document just so I could separate fact from fiction, trolling from experience, anger vs optimism, etc. I am still learning a ridiculous amount about this engine. There are a lot of things I don’t know. At the risk of having my every character flaw eviscerated on a public forum, is this just a terrible product or is the engine, in stock form, just not able to take advantage of the 1740?

With my limited knowledge, I am interested in information in this thread:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/668869-GIAC-Stage-2-B8-S4-versus-APR-Stage-3-B8-S4/page5

Specifically, post 175 (BoostEasy):

“Here are some reasons why the intercooler cores inside a SC like the TVS1320 aren't performing all that great:

1) HIGH BOOST. Most OEM supercharged engines are V8s and they tend to use much lower boost (8 vs 16-18). As you raise boost for a smaller displacement engine to move the same mass of air and make the same power, IATs must rise. Pass a hotter gas across the same IC cores and you get more watts of heat needing dissipation.

2) Convection. The SC sits on top of the engine. Heat rises. Aluminum is reasonably good conductor of heat. The IC cores directly contact the SC. The cores therefore not only absorb heat from airflow through the SC but they also pull heat directly from the hot supercharger case itself. The SC and most stuff under hood stuff is around 165'F when I used my IR tester in 80'F weather. This is why if you sit idling the car in the summer, the convection of heat under hood up into the SC will heat the cores and loop enough that, even in my stock car, I couldn't even get up to 80mph before the bypass valve opened and dumped boost down to 6psi because the IATs had hit 80'C/170+F.

3) Short Intercooler core airflow path. I'm not a heat exchanger expert and I've not pulled the IC cores out of SC so I'm not going into detail, but the summary is the heat exchangers have a very short contact path for SC discharge airflow. It's not 3 feet across like a typical air-to-air intercooler under your front bumper. It looks like about 3-4 inches. So the discharge air has to lose as much heat as possible at the speed travelling through the SC in just 3-4 inches. The result is the air and core interface simply can't conduct heat fast enough and IATs rise very quickly as a result. It's a shitty design IMO.

4) Double pass coolant design. The cores route the coolant in and U turn it back out the same way which adds unnecessary heat back into the system. It's probably not a huge difference inlet vs outlet coolant temp so it's not a huge factor but it adds up.

If you look at other cars of the same displacement as ours such as the 3.0L S55 in the M4, it has a water to air intercooler on top of the engine but the core appears to be a lot thicker, maybe 6-8" giving the air twice the contact time with the fins vs the 3.0T design. Big improvement vs ours re point #3. The M4 runs monster amounts of boost and has run 1/2mi events and has reportedly have no problems at all with IAT (staying under 140F AFAIK).

A lot can change depending on SC heat exchanger core design- fin count, fin shape, etc. So the Stage 3 blower could have much better cores or they could be as bad or worse than the OEM 3.0T. Perhaps Magnuson can comment on that. But the other items above still make it very challenging for raising boost and running pump gas on our cars because of the SC IC core design.”

The bolded portions are where my curiosity is. Heat, at every level, whether it’s the engine, brakes, seats, etc, seems to be the enemy of this platform. If the bolded statements are true, heat removal is the key. Could this be accomplished by lowering compression ratio? Altering piston shape should be cheaper than altering the blower housing to accommodate better coolers. The Magnuson should be a slightly more efficient charger than the 1320.

This post also interests me:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/668869-GIAC-Stage-2-B8-S4-versus-APR-Stage-3-B8-S4/page2

Post 76 (Auditude2.0T). If the blower is still cool to the touch, which the stock one was not, is that not an indication of efficiency?

Again, I’m trying to apply logic to a subject I’m not an expert in. Any knowledge or information is appreciated. Has anyone dissected a 1740? I understand the launch was a failure and the price is ridiculous. Has anyone been able to make this setup work? This is simply just fact finding and asking questions I haven’t seen answered yet. I joined the scene late, so I'm playing catch up.

[usmcfieldmp]

I can "yeah, but..." points 1-3. Especially number 3. These cars do see rather high IAT's though - that much is true. Way higher than my Cobalt saw when it was still supercharged (2.0L, M62 [way less effecient], 18psi).

4 is a valid point and a modification that probably wouldn't be that hard to achieve.



To your original point though... there is someone on this forum that is running the 1740 now and making progress with the tuning for it. Pretty sure they've maxed out the stock MAP sensors. We discussed it a bit in the "Beyond Stg2" thread... some of the most recent posts (last month).

The 1740 should be an upgrade though... less heat created for similar power levels. Boost levels can be lowered with more free-flowing exhaust and some head porting - which I've never even seen anyone on this forum talk about (I'm sure they have, but it's not that common of a discussion or modification). Most people around here seem to be bolt-on only... no one wants to mess with internals.

[RoofRails]

There are a few limitations that people have yet to overcome with a upgraded blower on our platform. #1 is increased fuel demand, the stock fuel system even with a upgraded HPFP can get tapped out with a Full Bolt on set up. So a upgraded blower doesn't stand a chance at making big power without more fuel. Secondly there is a packaging problem, from the room under the hood to the small Intercooler bricks and everything having to fit over top of a engine with 2 less cylinders then usual. Luckily there are people out there still willing to try and make something work so maybe there will be some progress at some point. But right now your better off getting a good ported blower with a larger throttle body and a good dual pulley tune.

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[WettRally]

There are a few limitations that people have yet to overcome with a upgraded blower on our platform. #1 is increased fuel demand, the stock fuel system even with a upgraded HPFP can get tapped out with a Full Bolt on set up. So a upgraded blower doesn't stand a chance at making big power without more fuel. Secondly there is a packaging problem, from the room under the hood to the small Intercooler bricks and everything having to fit over top of a engine with 2 less cylinders then usual. Luckily there are people out there still willing to try and make something work so maybe there will be some progress at some point. But right now your better off getting a good ported blower with a larger throttle body and a good dual pulley tune.

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What are our fueling limitations other than fuel pumps,,,,,, injectors? Diameter of fuel lines?

[sepheroth86]

As stated above, we have discussed this in the life beyond stage 2 thread over the most recent few pages.

From what I have read with people whom have these units is the MAP sensor is only good to about 22psi with no way to scale a larger MAP in the tune.

The other is the torque demand of the ecu is maxed out.

Once those can be overcome, then things like fueling and intercooler bricks come into play.

[QuattroJ]

I can "yeah, but..." points 1-3. Especially number 3. These cars do see rather high IAT's though - that much is true. Way higher than my Cobalt saw when it was still supercharged (2.0L, M62 [way less effecient], 18psi).

4 is a valid point and a modification that probably wouldn't be that hard to achieve.



To your original point though... there is someone on this forum that is running the 1740 now and making progress with the tuning for it. Pretty sure they've maxed out the stock MAP sensors. We discussed it a bit in the "Beyond Stg2" thread... some of the most recent posts (last month).

The 1740 should be an upgrade though... less heat created for similar power levels. Boost levels can be lowered with more free-flowing exhaust and some head porting - which I've never even seen anyone on this forum talk about (I'm sure they have, but it's not that common of a discussion or modification). Most people around here seem to be bolt-on only... no one wants to mess with internals.I need to read that thread. I've subscribed to it. Lots of posts.

[QuattroJ]

As stated above, we have discussed this in the life beyond stage 2 thread over the most recent few pages.

From what I have read with people whom have these units is the MAP sensor is only good to about 22psi with no way to scale a larger MAP in the tune.

The other is the torque demand of the ecu is maxed out.

Once those can be overcome, then things like fueling and intercooler bricks come into play.Does this mean that a majority of the problem are sensors and tuning?

Edit: In order to combat the sensor and ECU limitations, does that mean stand alone?

[QuattroJ]

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

[RoofRails]

What are our fueling limitations other than fuel pumps,,,,,, injectors? Diameter of fuel lines?People have upgraded the LPFP and HPFP and still can run the system lean. So I would think either replacement injectors and or port injection would be the next move.

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[QuattroJ]

I'll check out the Beyond Stage Two thread. In anyone's opinion, does compression ratio factor into heat?

[sepheroth86]

I'll check out the Beyond Stage Two thread. In anyone's opinion, does compression ratio factor into heat?

Nope. Blowers love high compression.

[sepheroth86]

People have upgraded the LPFP and HPFP and still can run the system lean. So I would think either replacement injectors and or port injection would be the next move.

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There was talk of using injectors from an Opel. They flow something like 20% more.

Then it would be up to the fuel pumps.

[RoofRails]

There was talk of using injectors from an Opel. They flow something like 20% more.

Then it would be up to the fuel pumps.Jay Bullington is also working with someone to release this port injection set up. We still need someone to tune for it but it's a step in the right direction. 219740

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[QuattroJ]

Are the port injectors for meth or fuel? Do these also act as spacers?

[RoofRails]

Are the port injectors for meth or fuel? Do these also act as spacers?SRM already makes a port injection set up for meth so I'm thinking this one is geared towards fuel. I don't believe that there was any intent for these to act as spacers. The size seems to be more a result of getting a good angle /clearance for the injectors to spray.

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[QuattroJ]

SRM already makes a port injection set up for meth so I'm thinking this one is geared towards fuel. I don't believe that there was any intent for these to act as spacers. The size seems to be more a result of getting a good angle /clearance for the injectors to spray.

Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Thanks.

[RoofRails]

Thanks.

No problem , I love these types of posts. As far as I know this was the latest full on attempt to to release a upgraded SC kit. They went with a Whipple/twin screw for the SC which is supposed to be more efficient then the TVS/Roots style at making boost with less heat. You can see they made the bricks larger and made them single pass. Melen had this kit on his A6 for a while but moved on from the platform. He currently has it for sale. This kit showed some potential but again ran into fueling issues which as far as I know still aren't resolved. So as of now the people putting down sick 1/4mile #s with 130+ mph trap speeds are all running ported stock blowers. This is a beautiful kit though hardware wise.


https://www.verstarkt.com/supercharger-systems/30t

[QuattroJ]

That's pretty cool. I hadn't come across that before. I'm curious about the bar and plate selection for the intercoolers. It is mentioned here:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/770746-Bell-Intercoolers-IC-Core-Option

Starting at post 13. I'm not knowledgeable enough to have an opinion on this. Just curious if what they mention is a legitimate concern. So now I'm reading about the differences between the Whipple and TVS.

[sepheroth86]

No problem , I love these types of posts. As far as I know this was the latest full on attempt to to release a upgraded SC kit. They went with a Whipple/twin screw for the SC which is supposed to be more efficient then the TVS/Roots style at making boost with less heat. You can see they made the bricks larger and made them single pass. Melen had this kit on his A6 for a while but moved on from the platform. He currently has it for sale. This kit showed some potential but again ran into fueling issues which as far as I know still aren't resolved. So as of now the people putting down sick 1/4mile #s with 130+ mph trap speeds are all running ported stock blowers. This is a beautiful kit though hardware wise.


https://www.verstarkt.com/supercharger-systems/30t

Like the people with the 1740 kit. I would imagine both blower setups have the same limitations.


Factory 2.5bar MAP sensor limitation (22-23psi)
Fuel pump(s) and injectors
Torque demands in the ECU


We need a tuner to step up to the plate to eliminate part of these problems. (or an option to unlock the ECU for at home users)

The next would be overcoming the issues in the factory fueling hardware.

[QuattroJ]

Is it fair to say then, that either of these superchargers are just a form of expandable headroom once the above issues are ironed out?

[sepheroth86]

Is it fair to say then, that either of these superchargers are just a form of expandable headroom once the above issues are ironed out?

I would say so.

At dual pulley levels the factory blower is about maxed out on airflow. As well as nearly maxing out the MAP sensors. And a ported stock blower on a car running an E40 mix will max out the capabilities of the fuel system. An upgraded HPFP is required to run E40 mixes.

These cars are stuck at ~500hp levels without sorting the MAP limitations, ECU torque demands and then a fueling option.

[RoofRails]

Is it fair to say then, that either of these superchargers are just a form of expandable headroom once the above issues are ironed out?

That's a fair assessment for now. Or if you live at a higher altitude with thinner air you could use this to make power equal to someone at sea level. And its big time engine bay candy for when you pull up to the Cars and Coffee and pop the hood !!

[RoofRails]

Like the people with the 1740 kit. I would imagine both blower setups have the same limitations.


Factory 2.5bar MAP sensor limitation (22-23psi)
Fuel pump(s) and injectors
Torque demands in the ECU


We need a tuner to step up to the plate to eliminate part of these problems. (or an option to unlock the ECU for at home users)

The next would be overcoming the issues in the factory fueling hardware.

I agree with you on this. While this version of a blower looks like they improved upon the hardware of the supercharger itself from APRs attempt they are still faced with the additional hurtles you listed. And lets not forget that after all of those things get figured out we will have to be looking into building up the internals because in my opinion those same guys I mentioned earlier putting up 130+ MPH traps are at the limit of the stock internals.

[QuattroJ]

That's a fair assessment for now. Or if you live at a higher altitude with thinner air you could use this to make power equal to someone at sea level. And its big time engine bay candy for when you pull up to the Cars and Coffee and pop the hood !!

They do look good under the hood! Also, it's awesome that the community was able to figure out what the shortcomings of these kits are. The manufacturers make no mention of issues involved in taking full advantage their products. Hats off to the industrious people on here.

I had sent an email to Magnuson regarding the availability of the 1740. They replied with this:

"Honestly it was a lot of not much demand. It is a great kit I will say. But also to do going forward I don't think we will because we had a partnership worked out with APR that owned the tooling and that has been returned to them.

Magnuson Superchargers
Customer Support"

Could any of these problems be resolved by using a standalone ECU? I understand that that solution is cost prohibitive and, in some states, you can't pass inspection with them. Just curious.

[QuattroJ]

I agree with you on this. While this version of a blower looks like they improved upon the hardware of the supercharger itself from APRs attempt they are still faced with the additional hurtles you listed. And lets not forget that after all of those things get figured out we will have to be looking into building up the internals because in my opinion those same guys I mentioned earlier putting up 130+ MPH traps are at the limit of the stock internals.

I read about a EuroCode 8500 RPM engine build. There seemed to be a lack of available information though.

[sepheroth86]

I agree with you on this. While this version of a blower looks like they improved upon the hardware of the supercharger itself from APRs attempt they are still faced with the additional hurtles you listed. And lets not forget that after all of those things get figured out we will have to be looking into building up the internals because in my opinion those same guys I mentioned earlier putting up 130+ MPH traps are at the limit of the stock internals.

I would bet that the engine is capable of holding up.

Many engines are capable of making more than double factory power levels before upgrading internals is necessary. (Honda S2000 F20C comes to mind)


@QuattroJ

There wasn't demand for the Maggie because it was 10k and didn't perform (due to programming limitations discussed above). If it were capable of being used to its potential and available at the ~$6000 price tag listed currently. I bet it would sell reasonably well.

[QuattroJ]

I would bet that the engine is capable of holding up.

Many engines are capable of making more than double factory power levels before upgrading internals is necessary. (Honda S2000 F20C comes to mind)


@QuattroJ

There wasn't demand for the Maggie because it was 10k and didn't perform (due to programming limitations discussed above). If it were capable of being used to its potential and available at the ~$6000 price tag listed currently. I bet it would sell reasonably well.

That was my thought as well. It would be a true Stage 3 upgrade.

[RoofRails]

Here is another stg3 option in the works. This manifold opens things up for a turbo conversion and it is complete with fuel rails/port injection. No little brick Intercoolers to get in the way with this bad boy. 219866

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3004270823222573&id=100009190556960

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[QuattroJ]

I've read about this while I was following UrkRish's twin charged build. I haven't followed or read much about Mario's builds other than people seem to be skeptical of them. Is that reputation warranted?

[fastboatster]

Here is another stg3 option in the works. This manifold opens things up for a turbo conversion and it is complete with fuel rails/port injection. No little brick Intercoolers to get in the way with this bad boy. 219866

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3004270823222573&id=100009190556960

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just an fyi, Ukurish aka Svarog performance did a turbo conversion a while ago, and afaik he can either do a conversion for you or sell you a kit. turbo plus port injection kit from j bullington plus engine build might be what some people are looking for in this thread. On another hand, this is all probably going to be so costly it'll make sense to just switch to an entirely different platform.

[no thx]

Vast performance in Michigan got something in the works

2.3L and 2.9L whipple blowers

Their test mule is running the 2.3 variant and it sounds fucking insane. Clips in link

https://photos.app.goo.gl/o2mRyK7Ef3Tq8Umu7https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210213/35fd8ca2026d8ab3c2651f6671eaa89f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210213/5a10ed4302d9bdbc47867043c13d2a02.jpg

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[QuattroJ]

My apologies for messing his user name up.

[4Ringsof4ury]

Vast performance in Michigan got something in the works

2.3L and 2.9L whipple blowers

Their test mule is running the 2.3 variant and it sounds fucking insane. Clips in link

https://photos.app.goo.gl/o2mRyK7Ef3Tq8Umu7https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210213/35fd8ca2026d8ab3c2651f6671eaa89f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210213/5a10ed4302d9bdbc47867043c13d2a02.jpg

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That things absolutely ridiculous. I love it.

[QuattroJ]

That thing is sexxxy.

[sepheroth86]

I would think that 2.3l+ may be too large. High boost psi will increase parasitic losses and decrease blower efficiency.

The engine can only eat so much air.

[Jliebs]

just an fyi, Ukurish aka Svarog performance did a turbo conversion a while ago, and afaik he can either do a conversion for you or sell you a kit. turbo plus port injection kit from j bullington plus engine build might be what some people are looking for in this thread. On another hand, this is all probably going to be so costly it'll make sense to just switch to an entirely different platform.

Hey there, I just stumbled upon this thread and read through it. Very interesting stuff. I am also a part of the “life beyond Stage 2” thread and love reading what goes on in there. I have always been disheartened by the power restrictions on this platform and always get excited when I hear about new developments. Now, as for svarog performance, if one were interested in inquiring about the turbo kit, how would they contact him? I just looked him up and I couldn’t find a website or anything

[fastboatster]

Hey there, I just stumbled upon this thread and read through it. Very interesting stuff. I am also a part of the “life beyond Stage 2” thread and love reading what goes on in there. I have always been disheartened by the power restrictions on this platform and always get excited when I hear about new developments. Now, as for svarog performance, if one were interested in inquiring about the turbo kit, how would they contact him? I just looked him up and I couldn’t find a website or anything
On IG, “svarog_performance”, see if he can do it for you and/or provide some parts and instructions.

[Jliebs]

On IG, “svarog_performance”, see if he can do it for you and/or provide some parts and instructions.

Much appreciated! I’ll send him a message and see what he can do

[Jliebs]

Much appreciated! I’ll send him a message and see what he can do

I don’t know if anyone is interested or if there is anyone who doesn’t know yet, but I messaged Oleg from svarog performance and it sounds like for a full kit (turbo, waste-gate, piping, etc.) it is 7k. I also looked around on his Instagram and saw that if you send your car in to him there is a two month turnaround time. This includes full install and tuning. He mentioned that this service is not his primary job so that is the reason for the longer wait time. But if anyone is interested in the conversion kit it seems very beneficial and pretty legitimate

[fastboatster]

That’s not too bad considering that bigger superchargers are easily more than 10k and that’s with no tuning which as it sounds can be tricky since only APR(?) did a big supercharger s4. I thought his kit was like 15-20k.

[Jliebs]

That’s not too bad considering that bigger superchargers are easily more than 10k and that’s with no tuning which as it sounds can be tricky since only APR(?) did a big supercharger s4. I thought his kit was like 15-20k.

Yea I mean that’s what he told me. Makes sense though, turbos are usually around 3k and the rest is really just piping and tubing, with the exception of a waste gate. His kit is capable of making 700hp (I think to the wheel) on full boost using a 87mm turbo. This isn’t direct information however. This is all from looking at his YouTube and Instagram

[fastboatster]

Yea I mean that’s what he told me. Makes sense though, turbos are usually around 3k and the rest is really just piping and tubing, with the exception of a waste gate. His kit is capable of making 700hp (I think to the wheel) on full boost using a 87mm turbo. This isn’t direct information however. This is all from looking at his YouTube and Instagram
Yeah, I’m aware of what he is getting with a turbo, I think it’s a great option but not for me for a multitude of reasons, one of which is how difficult it is to work on the exhaust system on this platform. It will be a total pain to get the car back to stock for an emissions inspection

[Jliebs]

Yeah, I’m aware of what he is getting with a turbo, I think it’s a great option but not for me for a multitude of reasons, one of which is how difficult it is to work on the exhaust system on this platform. It will be a total pain to get the car back to stock for an emissions inspection

Yea. Emissions tests are a pain. I’m just fortunate enough to not have to worry about those. As for the return to stock, it would certainly be arduous but I have a feeling that most people going this route would not be very concerned with stock or possible resale. At least in my opinion

[hunter_killer]

$7k for a turbo swap isn’t even bad at all, tuning included. I wonder tho if he does any fuel system upgrades too. Would be a worth while venture to look into overall. I wonder what VAST performances upgraded supercharger kit will cost when it’s ready to be sold and if it’s going to be comparable performance wise.


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[Jliebs]

$7k for a turbo swap isn’t even bad at all, tuning included. I wonder tho if he does any fuel system upgrades too. Would be a worth while venture to look into overall. I wonder what VAST performances upgraded supercharger kit will cost when it’s ready to be sold and if it’s going to be comparable performance wise.


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I know. I was truly surprised by the “affordability” for it, not that 7k is chump change, but it’s a good deal nonetheless. It’s very tempting simply because I’m losing faith in anyone breaching the 500 awhp mark with any considerable ease in the near future using supercharger. I just feel like there are so many limitations and restrictions that have yet to be ironed out

[TD1 Motorsports]

I know. I was truly surprised by the “affordability” for it, not that 7k is chump change, but it’s a good deal nonetheless. It’s very tempting simply because I’m losing faith in anyone breaching the 500 awhp mark with any considerable ease in the near future using supercharger. I just feel like there are so many limitations and restrictions that have yet to be ironed outAlbertaholdings is around 600hp, maybe 650 with the 1740.

The ECU is now the limiting factor, see my discussion in the life beyond stage 2 thread.



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[Jliebs]

Albertaholdings is around 600hp, maybe 650 with the 1740.

The ECU is now the limiting factor, see my discussion in the life beyond stage 2 thread.



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Yea that’s what I was getting at. And that’s the even more disheartening part. Anyone can make a bigger blower, but when the rest of the car (fueling, tuning cooling) is at its limits. Things get difficult. I know even after switching to different MAP sensors to account for the extra boost, people are still having trouble getting things to run right

[sepheroth86]

Yea that’s what I was getting at. And that’s the even more disheartening part. Anyone can make a bigger blower, but when the rest of the car (fueling, tuning cooling) is at its limits. Things get difficult. I know even after switching to different MAP sensors to account for the extra boost, people are still having trouble getting things to run right

The ECU will be the same bottleneck whether it is a turbo or blower.

[fastboatster]

The ECU will be the same bottleneck whether it is a turbo or blower.
True, but blower also eats up some power to provide the boost plus the intake air temps are generally higher. Might argue that the engine will have somewhat easier time not spinning the blower and with lower IAT. Seems like whoever did the tuning for Oleg (I think jfonz) was able to overcome ecu limitations if he’s pushing 700+whp. Perhaps he’s a guy to talk to for those wanting to go big blower/turbo?

[TD1 Motorsports]

The flat torque curve of the 1740 makes it probably the best power adder given current limitations. I've been on the lookout for one for awhile. HP can be made with additional rpm since the limitation is really a torque limitation.

I believe Oleg hit a wall also around similar boost levels.

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[Jliebs]

The flat torque curve of the 1740 makes it probably the best power adder given current limitations. I've been on the lookout for one for awhile. HP can be made with additional rpm since the limitation is really a torque limitation.

I believe Oleg hit a wall also around similar boost levels.

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Interesting. I had read that the 1740 was a flop primarily because we don’t have any cooling or tubing capabilities to take full advantage of its upgraded size

[TD1 Motorsports]

No one posted detailed logs from the 1740 side, at least that I came across. If it was running 91 octane, which I believe it was, APR didn't offer ethanol blends, then of course it lost to a dual pulley on e40.

Run both cars on e40 and the same pulley ratio, same supporting mods, 1740 will crush it.

[Jliebs]

No one posted detailed logs from the 1740 side, at least that I came across. If it was running 91 octane, which I believe it was, APR didn't offer ethanol blends, then of course it lost to a dual pulley on e40.

Run both cars on e40 and the same pulley ratio, same supporting mods, 1740 will crush it.

Ok fair enough. All I’ve seen, primarily from the “life beyond stage 2” thread, is that heat soak and high IAT’s were causing problems. Additionally the stock MAP sensors could not account for extra boost being made by the larger blower. Take this all with a grain of salt though. I have yet to come across any discussion with multiple accounts of people running that blower that yield useful, first-hand information. So I could just be talking out of my ass.

[TD1 Motorsports]

There was tons of speculation, little actual data.

[Jliebs]

There was tons of speculation, little actual data.

Exactly. Tons of people theorizing why it won’t work, but no actual experiences. Don’t get me wrong, the turbos are awesome, but I’m very open to getting an upgraded supercharger if someone can prove to me that they’re worth it.

[btb.tyler09]

Exactly. Tons of people theorizing why it won’t work, but no actual experiences. Don’t get me wrong, the turbos are awesome, but I’m very open to getting an upgraded supercharger if someone can prove to me that they’re worth it.The key is fueling. If we're maxing out the fueling system such that we can't even run full e85 then a bigger blower and more body isn't going to improve peak power. You can increase the area under the curve, but that's not going to be as attractive to most people. Or you run race gas and meth, but then you're likely beyond the limits of the bottom end anyway. There are some upgraded blower cars now, just not much has been shared about them yet.

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[Jliebs]

The key is fueling. If we're maxing out the fueling system such that we can't even run full e85 then a bigger blower and more body isn't going to improve peak power. You can increase the area under the curve, but that's not going to be as attractive to most people. Or you run race gas and meth, but then you're likely beyond the limits of the bottom end anyway. There are some upgraded blower cars now, just not much has been shared about them yet.

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That’s the main thing. The blower itself is fine, it’s that no one has seemingly figured out how to make our cars capable of using the extra power these blowers can provide. Aside form Magnuson I know there are one or two other upgraded blowers either in production or currently for sale. Can’t remember them off the top of my head though

[btb.tyler09]

That’s the main thing. The blower itself is fine, it’s that no one has seemingly figured out how to make our cars capable of using the extra power these blowers can provide. Aside form Magnuson I know there are one or two other upgraded blowers either in production or currently for sale. Can’t remember them off the top of my head thoughVast performance in Michigan and VPS are both of the current options. I haven't spoken to Zach who owns Vast recently, but their kit is a 2.3L Whipple with a lot of cooling upgrades. I don't know a ton about VPS but theirs is the smaller 1.6L Whipple.

There is potential for bigger blowers though. These 1.3L Eaton blowers get way out of their efficiency range at boost pressures above 20 psi. Not to mention you are more likely to damage or seize the blower at high pulley ratios.

The 2.3L should be able to get to 600+ whp, but you'll need fueling upgrades and a built engine.

The magnusson also has potential, and I'd love to see some custom tuning with race gas and meth on it. But they're hard to find and a much older gen blower. The newer Whipple and Magnusson blowers have higher efficiency.

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[usmcfieldmp]

Yeah, I’m aware of what he is getting with a turbo, I think it’s a great option but not for me for a multitude of reasons, one of which is how difficult it is to work on the exhaust system on this platform. It will be a total pain to get the car back to stock for an emissions inspection

Do what all the other California performance car people do... register your car in Arizona.