Bose Concert subwoofer options!? Help?!

[Zoltar]

I have not seen anyone replace the 6.5 sub with a better speaker. I read its a 2 ohm dual coil set up. Can i source a better speaker with a low rms with the stock amp? Or is it useless. The back seat speakers mids sound good and drown out the sub which has hardly any deeper bass. Or is best to rubberized rocker guard the inside of the bass bin or polyfill it and add some more sound deadening? Currently sounds like crap when i go to the hatch with earshot. Thanks!!! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210108/e4d975dba0aaf8ef4df444f30a219aaf.jpg

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[Bobby Kinstle]

If I recall the amp is literally hanging off the back of the magnet of one of the speakers. You can take the signal from there to a small amp and then drop in whatever 4 ohm speaker you want.

[Zoltar]

So if i find a 2 ohm dual coil that fits that could work or do i need to add an amp. Just looking low watts too for bass not overkill. Thanks

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[Bobby Kinstle]

When I replaced the rear speakers in my B5 A4 they were powered by an amp hanging off I think the left speaker. I had to add an amp to make up for it. There are lots of small amps in the 30-40W per channel and some of them have EQ settings you can apply to improve sound quality. Then you can use any 6.5" speakers you want.

[bruce_miranda]

If the subwoofer is 6.5inchs and 2ohms then you might want to try the Ampire Bold. Its a 4+4ohm DVC sub, so can be wired to 2ohm. It dropped straight into my B9 subwoofer enclosure.

[Christian@enfig]

How are you guys having this conversations without mentioning what car?

[Zoltar]

Its An A3 Concert HU with bose door speakers but was surprised blaupunkt sub and yes The tiny amp is right beside it. Heres a Pyle but has 300rms. Im going tp need an amp sounds like it

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210111/1d2199bc0c128f42adcd0d36eb910303.jpg

[Bobby Kinstle]

How are you guys having this conversations without mentioning what car?We've seen concert 2 systems before.

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[Bobby Kinstle]

Its An A3 Concert HU with bose door speakers but was surprised blaupunkt sub and yes The tiny amp is right beside it. Heres a Pyle but has 300rms. Im going tp need an amp sounds like it

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210111/1d2199bc0c128f42adcd0d36eb910303.jpgThat pyle, is well, a pile. My first choice for these is the scar audio EVL-65 but it's a little big and may require some enclosure modification to fit it. My second choice is the Ampire Bold6 which won't play quite as deep but it's a lot easier to install.

But don't buy that pyle it's terrible.

Here I recently simulated a bunch of 6.5 sub in the spare tire subwoofer enclosure that the A5 uses

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.audiworld.com-vbulletin/1300x540/subparison_ed9422a342c60be09ac77830551e728c5a6b293 8.png

[Zoltar]

My second choice was that Scar 6.5. But in the meantime im going to sound deaden the trunk

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[Christian@enfig]

We've seen concert 2 systems before.

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So bose concert is the name of the sub in the back of the A3? Or do you mean a bose system with a Concert II radio? Either way I'm sticking around to see how it sounds in the end.

[Bobby Kinstle]

So bose concert is the name of the sub in the back of the A3? Or do you mean a bose system with a Concert II radio? Either way I'm sticking around to see how it sounds in the end.

Audi used to create a base system that was installed with minor adjustments that had a recognizable name, and could attach an external signal processor like the Bose or B&O. There was Concert back in the 90's, then Symphony in 2000, and both of those were followed on later by the Symphony II and Concert II and all of those could be Bose or Non Bose. They still do this, but the lines are a bit more blurry on the modern systems.

[Christian@enfig]

Audi used to create a base system that was installed with minor adjustments that had a recognizable name, and could attach an external signal processor like the Bose or B&O. There was Concert back in the 90's, then Symphony in 2000, and both of those were followed on later by the Symphony II and Concert II and all of those could be Bose or Non Bose. They still do this, but the lines are a bit more blurry on the modern systems.

I'm very familiar with the Audi radios 1998+. the A6 A4 A3 and TT all came with Concert II radios. That's why I didn't understand. Concert II with Bose I had only heard about in the TT. That's why I asked what car. I didn't want to assume you meant a TT.

[captain_video]

Audi used to create a base system that was installed with minor adjustments that had a recognizable name, and could attach an external signal processor like the Bose or B&O. There was Concert back in the 90's, then Symphony in 2000, and both of those were followed on later by the Symphony II and Concert II and all of those could be Bose or Non Bose. They still do this, but the lines are a bit more blurry on the modern systems.

So does this mean that either a Concert or Symphony system basically refers to the head unit and not the overall system? It sounds like the speakers and amp can either be Bose or non-Bose based on how I'm interpreting this.

[Bobby Kinstle]

So does this mean that either a Concert or Symphony system basically refers to the head unit and not the overall system? It sounds like the speakers and amp can either be Bose or non-Bose based on how I'm interpreting this.Yes the system's all share a common head unit or electronics package. There are a bunch of features that can be enabled through the serial interface that make it car specific and of course the external signal processors like the Bose and bang and Olufsen systems.

They still do this on the modern cars. But it's not quite as clear and they don't give it the names like they used to. For example the head unit which is located in the glove box of my B9S4 actually has the capability of driving I think six channels and a subwoofer but none of them are used on my car. If you have the standard sound system it uses only four channels and if you have the intermediate sound system, which is the only version they ship in the United States, then you get six channels plus a subwoofer. I don't know if there's an internal hardware difference on the four-channel version or not but I suspect there is not.

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[captain_video]

Yes the system's all share come and head unit or electronics package. There are a bunch of features that can be enabled through the serial interface that make it car specific and of course the external signal processors like the Bose and bang and Olufsen systems.

They still do this on the modern cars. But it's not quite as clear and they don't give it the names like they used to. For example the head unit which is located in the glove box of my B9S4 actually has the capability of driving I think six channels and a subwoofer but none of them are used on my car. If you have the standard sound system it uses only four channels and if you have the intermediate sound system, which is the only version they ship in the United States, then you get six channels plus a subwoofer. I don't know if there's an internal hardware difference on the four-channel version or not but I suspect there is not.

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That makes sense. I know that Bose relies heavily on equalization in their home audio speakers so I'm sure they do the same with their car audio systems. I assume that they just look for cheap speakers with high power handling capabilities and then just equalize the crap out of them and force feed them frequencies at a much higher amplitude than the speakers were designed for. The result is that they can play loud, but lack any sort of accuracy or soundstage imaging.

[Bobby Kinstle]

That makes sense. I know that Bose relies heavily on equalization in their home audio speakers so I'm sure they do the same with their car audio systems. I assume that they just look for cheap speakers with high power handling capabilities and then just equalize the crap out of them and force feed them frequencies at a much higher amplitude than the speakers were designed for. The result is that they can play loud, but lack any sort of accuracy or soundstage imaging.

DING DING DING

The famous 2" bose driver only costs $2

[captain_video]

DING DING DING

The famous 2" bose driver only costs $2

I used to own a pair of the original Bose 901 speakers back around 1973. A buddy of mine that lived in my dorm at college found out the drivers were made by CTS and was able to order a case of them containing about 27 speakers for something like $125. He built himself a pair of monster 901s that had nine drivers on each of the two angled faces and a pair of speakers on the front face for a total of 20 4" speakers vs. 9 for the original 901's. I never had a chance to hear them since he built that at home back in New Jersey and my school was in Florida, but he sent me a pic. If they were anything like the original 901's they could get extremely loud, but lacked any kind of soundstage imaging and definition. The 901's created a huge soundstage, but it was literally splattered all over the wall facing the rear of the speakers. There was absolutely no sort of time alignment so the sound from the rear drivers would be delayed getting to the listener vs. the sound coming from the front speakers so it was just a muddled mess of incoherency. I eventually traded them in for a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10's that I had read about in one of the early issues of The Absolute Sound magazine. I practically had to twist the salesman's arm to take the 901's as a trade-in.

[Bobby Kinstle]

I used to own a pair of the original Bose 901 speakers back around 1973. A buddy of mine that lived in my dorm at college found out the drivers were made by CTS and was able to order a case of them containing about 27 speakers for something like $125. He built himself a pair of monster 901s that had nine drivers on each of the two angled faces and a pair of speakers on the front face for a total of 20 4" speakers vs. 9 for the original 901's. I never had a chance to hear them since he built that at home back in New Jersey and my school was in Florida, but he sent me a pic. If they were anything like the original 901's they could get extremely loud, but lacked any kind of soundstage imaging and definition. The 901's created a huge soundstage, but it was literally splattered all over the wall facing the rear of the speakers. There was absolutely no sort of time alignment so the sound from the rear drivers would be delayed getting to the listener vs. the sound coming from the front speakers so it was just a muddled mess of incoherency. I eventually traded them in for a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10's that I had read about in one of the early issues of The Absolute Sound magazine. I practically had to twist the salesman's arm to take the 901's as a trade-in.

LOL. I believe it. Its actually really hard to make a system with multiple drivers playing the same frequencies, especially in different places like on the 901s. I was reading up on time alignment for my B9 upgrade project and I realized that the more drivers you have the more difficult it gets. People think having lots of drivers gets you a wider surrounding stage but in reality the more you have the narrower the sweet spot gets until it's just the size of one person's head. Our cars are no exception and the more drivers Audi piles on, the worse it gets.

[captain_video]

LOL. I believe it. Its actually really hard to make a system with multiple drivers playing the same frequencies, especially in different places like on the 901s. I was reading up on time alignment for my B9 upgrade project and I realized that the more drivers you have the more difficult it gets. People think having lots of drivers gets you a wider surrounding stage but in reality the more you have the narrower the sweet spot gets until it's just the size of one person's head. Our cars are no exception and the more drivers Audi piles on, the worse it gets.

A head unit or DSP that allows you to configure time delay for each driver will provide somewhat adequate time alignment, although not perfect, but only for the driver. Everyone else in the car is SOL, not that most people would even notice. Let's face it, a car interior is not an ideal environment for an optimal audio system setup. There are so many uneven surfaces that interact with the sound waves that cause unwanted reflections or attenuation, plus you have to deal with road noise and other environmental issues. That being said, it's also one of the most intimate environments for listening to music so it's a bit of a trade-off. I probably do the vast majority of music listening in my car so I like to have a decent system for music reproduction. I'm perfectly fine with just having a set of 2- or 3-way component speakers up front with a subwoofer. I don't need a 20-speaker setup for the very reason you indicated.

[Bobby Kinstle]

A head unit or DSP that allows you to configure time delay for each driver will provide somewhat adequate time alignment, although not perfect, but only for the driver. Everyone else in the car is SOL, not that most people would even notice. Let's face it, a car interior is not an ideal environment for an optimal audio system setup. There are so many uneven surfaces that interact with the sound waves that cause unwanted reflections or attenuation, plus you have to deal with road noise and other environmental issues. That being said, it's also one of the most intimate environments for listening to music so it's a bit of a trade-off. I probably do the vast majority of music listening in my car so I like to have a decent system for music reproduction. I'm perfectly fine with just having a set of 2- or 3-way component speakers up front with a subwoofer. I don't need a 20-speaker setup for the very reason you indicated.

Yep that was the conclusion I came to as well. You can make it great for a very small space, but if a much shorter person drives the car then it's back to start. The odd placements, strange angles, and effects of too many drivers creates all sorts of natural comb filters that would require insane amounts of correction, delays that depend on frequency on *each* driver. It's just not worth it. I often just tell people to make the system sound good to you and don't get lost chasing the purple dragon of audiophile hi-fi. Road noise is a real problem on my S4 as the exhaust drones in the weakest area of midbass where the front door speakers are trying to carry the entire burden. I wish I could get access to the programming interface on my B&O amp. I could make a lot of things better with just a few keystrokes.

[captain_video]

Yep that was the conclusion I came to as well. You can make it great for a very small space, but if a much shorter person drives the car then it's back to start. The odd placements, strange angles, and effects of too many drivers creates all sorts of natural comb filters that would require insane amounts of correction, delays that depend on frequency on *each* driver. It's just not worth it. I often just tell people to make the system sound good to you and don't get lost chasing the purple dragon of audiophile hi-fi. Road noise is a real problem on my S4 as the exhaust drones in the weakest area of midbass where the front door speakers are trying to carry the entire burden. I wish I could get access to the programming interface on my B&O amp. I could make a lot of things better with just a few keystrokes.

LOL, I think I was chasing a pink unicorn for many years instead of a purple dragon. I got bit by the high end home audio bug back in the mid 70's and it made me neurotic. I got so in tune with the hardware and hearing faults in the sound that I totally lost sight of the fact that it was all about the enjoyment of the music. I eventually came to my senses and learned to simply enjoy the music and not worry so much about how accurate or lifelike it sounded. My home listening environment has too much background noise for me to do that anymore anyway. I used to try and direct people to get the best quality hardware they could afford whenever they asked my advice. Now I just tell them to find something that sounds good to them, even if it happens to be Bose (although I do try to discourage anyone from choosing that brand). I try to avoid being too elitist or an audio snob anymore. It's all a matter of personal preference, not to mention budget. Some of the high end car audio gear is outrageously priced, especially when you consider that whatever benefit you can achieve from it will probably get lost in a car environment with the engine running and the car in motion.

One thing I will tell anyone looking to upgrade a car audio system that will positively guarantee an improvement in sound is by installing sound dampening material on any metal surfaces using Dynamat or other similar material. It not only helps reduce road noise but it will provide better overall sound, especially in the mid-bass region. It should be applied to any surfaces where you have speakers mounted. Coating the door panels is the first place I would start and then expand that to the trunk and rear deck. It's a definitely noticeable improvement in the sound and it will make the interior of the car much quieter.

[Bobby Kinstle]

LOL, I think I was chasing a pink unicorn for many years instead of a purple dragon. I got bit by the high end home audio bug back in the mid 70's and it made me neurotic. I got so in tune with the hardware and hearing faults in the sound that I totally lost sight of the fact that it was all about the enjoyment of the music. I eventually came to my senses and learned to simply enjoy the music and not worry so much about how accurate or lifelike it sounded. My home listening environment has too much background noise for me to do that anymore anyway. I used to try and direct people to get the best quality hardware they could afford whenever they asked my advice. Now I just tell them to find something that sounds good to them, even if it happens to be Bose (although I do try to discourage anyone from choosing that brand). I try to avoid being too elitist or an audio snob anymore. It's all a matter of personal preference, not to mention budget. Some of the high end car audio gear is outrageously priced, especially when you consider that whatever benefit you can achieve from it will probably get lost in a car environment with the engine running and the car in motion.

I found an interesting dilemma in my car. If I'm driving, I need to set the treble up 1-2 clicks to cut the road noise. The Dayton ND25 tweeters I'm using do a great job at that but when I'm going slow or stopped the highs are a little too strong for my taste. I'm going to raise the crossover frequency from 4Khz to 5Khz and see if that solves the problem as the problem is the worst where it's close to the midrange's upper limit.

One thing I noticed is that name brand car audio gear can be crazy expensive, but buying raw drivers from places like parts express is much cheaper. Someone asked in another thread how much I've spent on this project so far and after doing come math and digging up receipts, it came to about $850 total (I do all my own labor and fabrication) More than 1/3 of that was on the subwoofer and sub amp alone. That's actually quite reasonable for the level of improvement I received.


One thing I will tell anyone looking to upgrade a car audio system that will positively guarantee an improvement in sound is by installing sound dampening material on any metal surfaces using Dynamat or other similar material. It not only helps reduce road noise but it will provide better overall sound, especially in the mid-bass region. It should be applied to any surfaces where you have speakers mounted. Coating the door panels is the first place I would start and then expand that to the trunk and rear deck. It's a definitely noticeable improvement in the sound and it will make the interior of the car much quieter.

I'm also a huge fan of slapping dynamat around inside cars. Not only does it improve sound quality, but it reduces driver fatigue and lets you enjoy the music at lower power levels

[captain_video]

One thing I noticed is that name brand car audio gear can be crazy expensive, but buying raw drivers from places like parts express is much cheaper. Someone asked in another thread how much I've spent on this project so far and after doing come math and digging up receipts, it came to about $850 total (I do all my own labor and fabrication) More than 1/3 of that was on the subwoofer and sub amp alone. That's actually quite reasonable for the level of improvement I received.


I agree about the pricing on brand name components. That's why I tend to look for deals on used equipment whenever planning an upgrade. If I can't find what I'm looking for in the used equipment market I shop around for the best online deals I can find. The classified sections in forums like this and DIYMobileAudio.com are a great resource for quality used audio gear. Ebay is another great source.

[Zoltar]

You guys lost me. Way above my pay grade lingo lol. I have since removed my so called paper sub. Stuffed the hatch sides and spare tire area with that yellow sponge mattress top padding for sound deadening. If i just use the rears the mid bass is useless. The top door tweeters are fine. Sounds like my front mid bass are great and have been making all the bass. Do you think if I dynomat behind these so called low powered speakers in the back doors it just be a waste of time? The other way to go i sourced a thread with the same amp next to the 6.5 sub he used the speaker wires run out the port using a high to low converter to an amp then a sub. As a novice i think i'd like to attempt but with knowing the bose amp still runs the rear speakers. Im not 100% certain.

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[Bobby Kinstle]

Definitely dynamat your car. Any time you open up a panel, install some dynamat. Wrap on the metal panels with your knuckle. If it goes bong bong bong, slap some dynamat on it. If it goes thud, don't bother. The more you apply the better, but even if you can only get 20% coverage, it's worth it. Above 50% coverage is diminishing returns.

Don't dynamat the trunk lid much or it'll be too heavy and won't open all the way.

2 cars ago I tapped into the amp on the back of the rear deck 6.5" speaker and ran it through an LoC, then into a 4 channel amp and a sub amp to run the 4 mains and a small wedge sub in the trunk. It was a little bit of a pain, but well worth it.