Was my engine replaced?

[Backorder]

Last week I drove out of state to purchase a certified 2017 A6 Competition Prestige. I was absolutely in love with the interior and honestly couldn't afford an S6 so I found that one reasonably close by and snatched it up.

At the dealer we noticed the inner fender well had some damage and since the part had to be ordered and we were out of state, the dealer agreed to pay for the parts and repair back in our home state. After driving it hundreds of miles home and enjoying it the whole way we pulled into the garage very early the next morning to notice the car had a slight tick coming from the engine. The next day as I was showing it off to my neighbor, he noticed it as well. Come to find out the pulley on the water pump was wobbling. No big deal, I'm under warranty.

Fast forward to yesterday, I drop the car off at my local dealership to have the parts ordered and potentially the water pump replaced. Service is rather busy so they don't get to my car until today...I receive a call saying they replaced the water pump but while they had the covers and other small parts off to replace the water pump they noticed paint pen numbers marked on a component of the engine. The service rep and his manager state they think this engine may be a used/replacement engine as that kind of marking is usually seen on replacement engines they get in.

As I wait to continue conversations with the dealership I bought it from I now have some serious questions:
- How could my car have been certified if the engine had been replaced?
- How would this not show up on a vehicle history report (there was one record where it said a minor incident detected. With the fender well the way it was I assumed at some point someone blew a tire)
- Is it possible this is just a replacement part someone put on the factory engine?
- Is there a way to determine if my car has the engine it left the factory with?
- The competition prestige has a small 7hp tuning bump vs the stock A6 3.0T. Is this something that can be determined by a diagnostic scan?
- Since it has a slight HP bump over the standard 3.0, is it possible the factory labeled a part to denote the slight tuning difference?

Picture of the paint pen numbers attached.

211584

Honestly I'm in love with the car and I searched a long time to find this car as a good deal, certified, near me. I love the interior, the drive, how it feels and everything about it in the short time I've been able to enjoy it. I'm just so conflicted now by the potential accusation of the local dealership and I need to know what the truth is...

[prestige.phantom]

- The competition prestige has a small 7hp tuning bump vs the stock A6 3.0T. Is this something that can be determined by a diagnostic scan?
- Since it has a slight HP bump over the standard 3.0, is it possible the factory labeled a part to denote the slight tuning difference?



Im almost 100% certain that the 7hp bump comes from an extremely mild ECU tune, so I doubt that the factory would've labeled it. I do not that a basic scan could determine that, but Id imagine that Audi's computer might.

However, the easiest way to check if its a replacement engine would be to check the VINs stamped in the Engine and see if that matches your chassis VIN on the dash. Same VIN, then factory motor. Different VIN, different motor. Simple as that.

[Backorder]

Im almost 100% certain that the 7hp bump comes from an extremely mild ECU tune, so I doubt that the factory would've labeled it. I do not that a basic scan could determine that, but Id imagine that Audi's computer might.

However, the easiest way to check if its a replacement engine would be to check the VINs stamped in the Engine and see if that matches your chassis VIN on the dash. Same VIN, then factory motor. Different VIN, different motor. Simple as that.

Thanks. I was thinking this too but was apparently not smart enough to figure out where the VIN is stamped on the engine. Is it semi accessible?

[MattyMarkey]

Thanks. I was thinking this too but was apparently not smart enough to figure out where the VIN is stamped on the engine. Is it semi accessible?

I honestly don’t believe Audi stamps their blocks with the VINs. Could be wrong, but pretty sure they have limited markings - top of manifold and in the front of the engine near the idler pulley. Something like this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201218/189884b346ac230ea2c544fbd380823e.jpg

These typically have codes, not the VIN, which I think you can correlate with the sticker in the back of your trunk.

I would think the dealership you brought it to could tell you for certain.


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[eurospek]

If you run V32591 on google, you are taken to a LKQ listing of taillights from a 2016 Audi A6 parts donor car, with V32591 as it's identification. And unfortunately the markings/penmanship looks the same as your engine markings.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16-17-18-Audi-A6-S6-Passenger-RH-Quarter-Mounted-Led-Tail-Lamp-Light-OEM-LKQ-/313131637835?nma=true&si=M4xMnYxf19QJ0io%252BHDgU6Rserk8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/k4YAAOSwsxNe-t9V/s-l500.jpg

[Backorder]

If you run V32591 on google, you are taken to a LKQ listing of taillights from a 2016 Audi A6 parts donor car, with V32591 as it's identification. And unfortunately the markings/penmanship looks the same as your engine markings.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16-17-18-Audi-A6-S6-Passenger-RH-Quarter-Mounted-Led-Tail-Lamp-Light-OEM-LKQ-/313131637835?nma=true&si=M4xMnYxf19QJ0io%252BHDgU6Rserk8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/k4YAAOSwsxNe-t9V/s-l500.jpg

Woah...so as a follow up, I finally got in touch with the dealership I bought it from. They say it has been taken care of by another Audi dealership it’s entire life and they are sending me the documentation. Also, the local dealership doesn’t see anything else odd. I don’t understand though why there would be an undocumented engine swap with a car that’s under warranty. The item you found is definitely some good ammo to start with though on this ever increasingly weird story...

[Alabama]

These typically have codes, not the VIN, which I think you can correlate with the sticker in the back of your trunk.

For what it's worth, this is from the manual for a 2014 S6 with a picture similar to what MattyMarkey posted with that arrow being "arrow B" for the S6:

♦ The engine number -arrow B- is visible, if the housing for the
charge air cooler is removed.
♦ The first 3 digits of the engine code -arrow A- are visible, when
the engine cover is removed.
♦ The engine serial number (“engine code” and “serial number”)
is located on the front of the cylinder block on the left side
-arrow B-.

[ANMS4]

Maybe because the motor wasn’t covered under warranty, the person before probably had a tune blew the motor and didn’t have 20k to put a new Audi motor in. So went used and paid like half that then traded out of the car :/. Which would suck for you if you have a engine issues they may not cover it because it’s not the original motor.

[prestige.phantom]

Is it possible that thee marked part itself came off of the donor car from eBay and not the entire motor? Just a though...

[JoshDub]

call the major tuners and see if the car has possibly been tuned at one point in its life. If it's a replacement engine it's possible that it was blown up, swapped, and traded in.

[Backorder]

Is it possible that thee marked part itself came off of the donor car from eBay and not the entire motor? Just a though...

I’m wondering the same thing. I’m not sure exactly what part that would be on the upper left side of the engine because I’m a terrible car guy lol

[prestige.phantom]

call the major tuners and see if the car has possibly been tuned at one point in its life. If it's a replacement engine it's possible that it was blown up, swapped, and traded in.

Yea. This would easily slide through the lease return inspection. All they do is a basic walk-around and make sure everything works. Its possible that the dealer you bought it from got it at auction and didn't even know this history if the car was fixed at a non-Audi shop. Are there any modifications to the car at all?

[TEXAS-AVANT]

You service advisor can show you in their computer all the work that was done in the car through dealer. I bought a similar car, 2017 A6 competition, and I asked to see the history before buy the car. Carfax shows almost nothing.
Another car that I saw to buy, had in the historic that the engine was removed to fix the AC (S7). Maybe yours was the same and was marked in the process.


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[Backorder]

Yea. This would easily slide through the lease return inspection. All they do is a basic walk-around and make sure everything works. Its possible that the dealer you bought it from got it at auction and didn't even know this history if the car was fixed at a non-Audi shop. Are there any modifications to the car at all?

No modifications I can see. The local dealer said everything else looked good as well.

I’m going to start by calling LKQ in the morning to see if they have record of selling the engine whole or not. In addition to that I should have the history paperwork in my inbox tomorrow. Depending on the answers from that call and paperwork will determine how I proceed.

This is exactly how the dealer got it so if the engine was replaced they likely didn’t know either. If that is the case though and I can prove an engine replacement I may very well be the plaintiff in a lawsuit in the near future...

[Valpo A7]

I just glanced through the CPO checklist and I see nothing that says to check the engine VIN code. Basic visuals and various checks. If the engine bay looks right then it’s going to pass inspection, unless there are deeper aspects of the CPO program not on the checklist.

https://www.audiusa.com/dam/nemo/us/shopping-tools/used-inventory/certified-pre-owned/PDF/2018-09-Audi-CPO-Inspection-Cert-Checklist-V2.pdf

[paul-g]

Ya definitely start with the vin checking, this would make me crazy...motor could have twice the mileage on it, you never know.

The dealership that did water pump should have started looking around and helping you... crazy they didn't... As a dealership I noticed that I would dig a Little deeper for the customer

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[Backorder]

Ya definitely start with the vin checking, this would make me crazy...motor could have twice the mileage on it, you never know.

The dealership that did water pump should have started looking around and helping you... crazy they didn't... As a dealership I noticed that I would dig a Little deeper for the customer

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This may sounds stupid but beside the standard report I got, what other ways of vin checking are recommended? Just trying to find the code on the block?

[Backorder]

So since the initial post I have talked to the dealer I bought it from, picked my car up from the local dealer and even called AudiUSA.

Still trying to personally locate something on the engine myself but I can’t really find anything. There is a yellow label on top of the supercharger that starts with CRE and a stamp on the block to the passenger side that is a six characer code ALS something but I can’t find anything else TBH. I even ended up dropping my phone in the engine compartment like an idiot...had to jack ip the car and retrieve it from below [emoji2357]

Anyway, I will be going back to the local dealer in the near future since they had to order a new pulley to be replaced. AudiUSA and the dealer I bought it from agree that the local dealer should be able to identify if it’s the original engine or not so I’ll likely wait until then but this is just stressfully nagging at me not knowing if I was essentially ripped off with my new car.

In the owners manual I see there should be a vehicle identification label in the trunk in the spare tire compartment...I can’t seem to find that but I also don’t see anywhere it may have been removed. I even took out the spare tire and see nothing...another anomaly while I was in that compartment is the tow hook is missing...not a smoking gun and could mean anything but still an anomaly.

Looking forward to figuring this out and getting it behind me...

[christianb5s4]

This is wild, I hope you find out one way or another. How many miles are on your car? You can take the oil cap off and see how the insides of the head look and if it's clean or not.

[MattyMarkey]

So since the initial post I have talked to the dealer I bought it from, picked my car up from the local dealer and even called AudiUSA.

Still trying to personally locate something on the engine myself but I can’t really find anything. There is a yellow label on top of the supercharger that starts with CRE and a stamp on the block to the passenger side that is a six characer code ALS something but I can’t find anything else TBH. I even ended up dropping my phone in the engine compartment like an idiot...had to jack ip the car and retrieve it from below [emoji2357]

Anyway, I will be going back to the local dealer in the near future since they had to order a new pulley to be replaced. AudiUSA and the dealer I bought it from agree that the local dealer should be able to identify if it’s the original engine or not so I’ll likely wait until then but this is just stressfully nagging at me not knowing if I was essentially ripped off with my new car.

In the owners manual I see there should be a vehicle identification label in the trunk in the spare tire compartment...I can’t seem to find that but I also don’t see anywhere it may have been removed. I even took out the spare tire and see nothing...another anomaly while I was in that compartment is the tow hook is missing...not a smoking gun and could mean anything but still an anomaly.

Looking forward to figuring this out and getting it behind me...

Very curious to know what the dealership you bought it from said when you called?

I guess being CPO, that’s saving you a bit, but dang... that seems like some shady business if it wasn’t documented.


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[Backorder]

This is wild, I hope you find out one way or another. How many miles are on your car? You can take the oil cap off and see how the insides of the head look and if it's clean or not.

The odometer shows just above 45,000 miles now.

I did see that it was serviced at regular 10,000 mile intervals at the local Audi dealer it’s entire life which makes me hopeful this is all just a bad dream but that doesn’t explain why that paint pen number is there in the first place and why that number matches 2 other used parts from LKQ on eBay. Needless to say, if this doesn’t get sorted in the next couple days it’s going to be a stressful Christmas constantly thinking “what if?”.

[Backorder]

Very curious to know what the dealership you bought it from said when you called?

I guess being CPO, that’s saving you a bit, but dang... that seems like some shady business if it wasn’t documented.


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They pretty much said they pulled the CARFAX and another similar report and did a full CPO inspection. They also told me they will send me all the service records from the previous dealership. They weren’t happy that someone would tell me that and not show proof which just leaves me hanging.

My hope is I take it back and they tell me it’s my original engine, sorry for the mixup and I’m good to go...but we shall see :-/

[MattyMarkey]

They pretty much said they pulled the CARFAX and another similar report and did a full CPO inspection. They also told me they will send me all the service records from the previous dealership. They weren’t happy that someone would tell me that and not show proof which just leaves me hanging.

My hope is I take it back and they tell me it’s my original engine, sorry for the mixup and I’m good to go...but we shall see :-/

I can see why they would be upset the dealership told you it may be used/replaced without verifying for themselves and the customer (you).

I mean, that entire statement has lead you to this point... whether it’s accurate or not, give you more information. Geesh.

For what it’s worth, which isn’t much, cause I don’t think you’ll be able to ascertain much info from it without other markings in the engine bay... the sticker is pretty noticeable, if it’s there.

For reference, this is my S7. Should be in or around the same area on your A6 (my A6 was located on this side as well.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201221/985ddbef8c1d9007f14295209ebf29c8.jpg


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[Alabama]

Thanks. I was thinking this too but was apparently not smart enough to figure out where the VIN is stamped on the engine. Is it semi accessible?

Sorry this probably won't be helpful but I learned something new. NHTSA does require VIN stamping on engines: "In 1994, the Theft Prevention Standard was amended by extending the parts-marking requirements originally specific to passenger cars, to include multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and light-duty trucks (rated at 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight or less). This rule also listed the covered major component parts and replacement parts to be marked for each of the classes of vehicles (the engine, transmission, front/rear bumper, right/left front fender, hood, right/left front door, right/left rear door, sliding cargo door(s), right/left quarter panel (passenger cars), right/left side assembly (MPVs), pickup box, and /or cargo box (light-duty trucks), rear doors, decklid or hatchback and tailgate)". The problem is that apparently many Audis may be exempt because they have anti-theft devices installed. The Blauparts website implies that dealers know how to identify an engine, but it's secret! Another website implies the knowledge is only shared with law enforcement. It's hard to imagine those compulsive German engineers would not keep track of which engine went into which car body, or that EU regulations would be more lax than NHTSA!

[bahula03]

Curiosity got the best of me as far as finding engine markings. The easiest thing seems to be a sticker on the timing chain cover (back of the motor) on the passenger side of the car, which is present on my C7 and matches the engraving that's visible on the top front passenger side of the motor. That engraving is tough to see, but looking down with a torch about where the arrow is in the attached photo should show it. Photos are all from eBay, hopefully this is helpful!

212140

212138

212139

[Backorder]

Curiosity got the best of me as far as finding engine markings. The easiest thing seems to be a sticker on the timing chain cover (back of the motor) on the passenger side of the car, which is present on my C7 and matches the engraving that's visible on the top front passenger side of the motor. That engraving is tough to see, but looking down with a torch about where the arrow is in the attached photo should show it. Photos are all from eBay, hopefully this is helpful!

You sir are awesome! Was able to find the sticker and it actually matches a dotted yellow sticker on top of the supercharger as well. Now I just need the Vehicle ID Label which is nowhere to be found but I have asked AudiUSA if they have that info (which they should as I’ve seen another member here or elsewhere request a new one from Germany). 1 step closer!

So the one on the engine starts with CRE. Does that ring a bell to anyone? Is that right for a 3.0t engine in 2017?

[Backorder]

On that sticker does “bei allen pruef-und einstellarbeiten” mean date of installation? If so, that would definitely be way off...google translation isn’t doing the best on that...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201222/bc7644d86d7b9cf705f792a9bd734b92.jpg

[Burnt]

Shouldn't the VIN be engraved into a metal part of the engine? It prevents salvagers to replace and claim as original, heard they grind off the VIN.

[bahula03]

You sir are awesome! Was able to find the sticker and it actually matches a dotted yellow sticker on top of the supercharger as well. Now I just need the Vehicle ID Label which is nowhere to be found but I have asked AudiUSA if they have that info (which they should as I’ve seen another member here or elsewhere request a new one from Germany). 1 step closer!

So the one on the engine starts with CRE. Does that ring a bell to anyone? Is that right for a 3.0t engine in 2017?

Happy to help [:)] Looking at my build sheet, it shows the engine code towards the top and the corresponding option code further down, but not the serial number from the block/timing chain cover sticker...so not sure I'd get your hopes up there. That said, I can't imagine that Audi won't be able to piece things together or tell you what serial number the car was built with. CRE is the engine code, usually referred to as CREC, which is correct for your car (I have no idea why the fourth letter gets dropped, maybe one of the more encyclopedic members can chime in). This post has good info about all of the 3.0T code variants- https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/910789-S4-3-0T-CTUB-VS-Q5-3-0T-CTUC?p=14319655&viewfull=1#post14319655

This whole thing is so bizarre I hate to assume anything that isn't clearly supported, but your build/assembly date theory makes sense. Looking at it as year.month.day, my assembly date is a month or so before the build date of the car, which seems pretty reasonable. Maybe others can chime in to see if their dates are similar since it's easy to check.


Shouldn't the VIN be engraved into a metal part of the engine? It prevents salvagers to replace and claim as original, heard they grind off the VIN.

Without wading into the legal requirements, I'm pretty sure VINs are rarely, if ever, used in newer cars on the engine/trans if only because of the logistics. I took a look at my other car (the engine bay is a bit less 10lb in a 5lb bag than the Audi [>_<]) and it's the same deal- engine code followed by numeric serial number, no VIN. As far as I can tell, the only unique identifiers (ie, not part numbers) on the 3.0T block are the previously mentioned one on the left bank, and below the right cylinder head. Neither are the VIN and it doesn't *seem* like they're the same number.

212165

212166

[Valpo A7]

Stamping or engraving a VIN on an engine has been a legal requirement in almost all nations since 1954.

[bakedziti]

LKQ is still parting VIN# WAUFGAFC7GN015831 or stock# V32591-321. I’m not sure that the LKQ link will come through to the item or to their search page like it used to.

https://www.lkqonline.com/2016-AUDI-A6-Info-Gps-tv-Screen/-hDPPnOcD4O/-i~249816679

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201222/af44a2d2ce8e32c0fae1581f07427be3.png

[Backorder]

LKQ is still parting VIN# WAUFGAFC7GN015831 or stock# V32591-321. I’m not sure that the LKQ link will come through to the item or to their search page like it used to.

Thanks! I just tried calling but they were unable to tell me if the engine is something they sold in the past or not. I’m sure they have record but this particular individual either didn’t want to look or share that.

On the plus side, I sent the information I found last night to AudiUSA and have asked for confirmation of what my engine serial number should be as well as what the date means on that sticker I found. Hopefully will hear something today then when I take it back to the local dealer I can have them find the serial number on the engine block for confirmation.

FYI, I love your user name! [emoji23]

[bakedziti]

FYI, I love your user name! [emoji23]


Thank you!

From my engine replacement experience with LKQ, they likely do not have a record of the sale in a searchable system. I believe they purge the records frequently because I couldn’t find anything in my account regarding my original order, or the replacement LKQ had to send after some damage in shipping. LKQ also used to let you search all of the parts tied to a VIN that were still available, but it does not appear that we still have that option on their website.

I hope it all works out for you!

[bahula03]

Stamping or engraving a VIN on an engine has been a legal requirement in almost all nations since 1954.

To take the ambiguity out of this because there are a statements about this here and out on the web, it is not a requirement. The relevant portion from the current federal standard says,

"(e) The VIN of each vehicle shall appear clearly and indelibly upon either a part of the vehicle, other than the glazing, that is not designed to be removed except for repair or upon a separate plate or label that is permanently affixed to such a part.
(f) The VIN for passenger cars, multi- purpose passenger vehicles, low speed vehicles, and trucks of 4536 kg or less GVWR shall be located inside the passenger compartment. It shall be readable, without moving any part of the vehicle, through the vehicle glazing under daylight lighting conditions by an observer having 20/20 vision (Snellen) whose eye-point is located outside the vehicle adjacent to the left windshield pillar. Each character in the VIN subject to this paragraph shall have a minimum height of 4 mm."

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol6/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol6-part565.pdf

If you've got information that supersedes that standard, I'm all ears [:)]

[bahula03]

Sorry this probably won't be helpful but I learned something new. NHTSA does require VIN stamping on engines: "In 1994, the Theft Prevention Standard was amended by extending the parts-marking requirements originally specific to passenger cars, to include multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and light-duty trucks (rated at 6,000 pounds gross vehicle weight or less). This rule also listed the covered major component parts and replacement parts to be marked for each of the classes of vehicles (the engine, transmission, front/rear bumper, right/left front fender, hood, right/left front door, right/left rear door, sliding cargo door(s), right/left quarter panel (passenger cars), right/left side assembly (MPVs), pickup box, and /or cargo box (light-duty trucks), rear doors, decklid or hatchback and tailgate)". The problem is that apparently many Audis may be exempt because they have anti-theft devices installed. The Blauparts website implies that dealers know how to identify an engine, but it's secret! Another website implies the knowledge is only shared with law enforcement. It's hard to imagine those compulsive German engineers would not keep track of which engine went into which car body, or that EU regulations would be more lax than NHTSA!

Came across this from 2017 which lists exemptions, and it's pretty much complete lineups for newer cars haha. The anti-theft/immobilizer exception is exactly it, at the bottom it says that in 2005 "manufacturers are permitted to petition the agency to exempt low-theft vehicle lines equipped with antitheft devices from the parts-marking requirements beginning with model year 2006" and in 2016, they "add(ed) a streamlined exemption procedure for immobilizer-equipped vehicles by adding performance criteria for immobilizers." Even at the "peak" of the Theft Prevention Standard, it was applicable based on the theft rates for a given model line (or if another line had interchangeable parts with a high theft rate model), so not by any means every car out there.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/812452.pdf

TIL [>_<]

[Alabama]

Came across this from 2017 which lists exemptions, and it's pretty much complete lineups for newer cars haha. The anti-theft/immobilizer exception is exactly it, at the bottom it says that in 2005 "manufacturers are permitted to petition the agency to exempt low-theft vehicle lines equipped with antitheft devices from the parts-marking requirements beginning with model year 2006" and in 2016, they "add(ed) a streamlined exemption procedure for immobilizer-equipped vehicles by adding performance criteria for immobilizers." Even at the "peak" of the Theft Prevention Standard, it was applicable based on the theft rates for a given model line (or if another line had interchangeable parts with a high theft rate model), so not by any means every car out there.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/812452.pdf

TIL [>_<]

As you and I note, many Audis may be exempt from the VIN requirement, but wouldn't that serial number you found on the timing chain cover be unique? I would assume Audi has a database somewhere that matches engine serial number with VIN. My Monroney label shows that Audi knows my engine was made in Hungary. I can't imagine that Audi does not keep track of which engine manufactured in Hungary went into which car in Neckarsulm!
As regards the missing Vehicle ID sticker in the trunk, other AZ members sent me to erWin, where the information may be downloaded (for a small fee). Maybe the dealer would do it for free.

[bahula03]

Yeah, absolutely agreed that Audi has a detailed BOM for each of the cars they build. From experience in other businesses, that information usually isn't customer-facing because it doesn't need to be. Should just be a matter of getting in touch with the right person at Audi and giving them impetus to dig the info up, which seems to be underway here. Wouldn't be surprised if it takes a few extra days to resolve though, most of these people are probably out of (virtual) office till next year.

[Backorder]

Yeah, absolutely agreed that Audi has a detailed BOM for each of the cars they build. From experience in other businesses, that information usually isn't customer-facing because it doesn't need to be. Should just be a matter of getting in touch with the right person at Audi and giving them impetus to dig the info up, which seems to be underway here. Wouldn't be surprised if it takes a few extra days to resolve though, most of these people are probably out of (virtual) office till next year.

That is what I’m hoping for. Well I HOPE it doesn’t take until the new year but who knows...initial contact with AudiUSA via phone was Monday. Monday night I emailed some additional info. Tuesday morning I emailed more additional info after discovering the serial # and sticker tag with the odd date. IF they were in the office and got that message I assume they may even have to contact Germany for the info since that’s where the car was built. I plan to let the case sit until Monday afternoon-ish and will call AudiUSA back to get an update.

Tuesday I bring the car back locally to have a pulley replaced they had to order and while I’m there I’m having them look for the stamped number on the engine block to confirm with the sticker. After that it’s all a process of “does it match?” The build data. [emoji1696]I have this solved next week...

I do appreciate everyone’s comments and assistance. I’m still driving the car every chance I get because I legitimately love it. I just need to know if the engine has 45,000 miles or over 60,000 from a junkyard [emoji2369][emoji20]

[Sima-Koya]

I can check tomorrow if VIN in the advert belongs to the serial number of the engine in your car.

[Backorder]

I can check tomorrow if VIN in the advert belongs to the serial number of the engine in your car.

If I gave you my car’s VIN would you be able to cross check that too? Just out of curiosity I assume you work for Audi?

[Sima-Koya]

No,I am independent repair shop,but I can check info like that.I got online login.

[Backorder]

No,I am independent repair shop,but I can check info like that.I got online login.

That is awesome and I really appreciate it!

[delz05]

This has my full interest....[headbang]

[Backorder]

This has my full interest....[headbang]

Lol I’m on pins and needles waiting for this info! Then again I almost don’t want to know until next week so it doesn’t ruin Christmas [emoji23] Either way though if it is bad news there is likely going to be a lot of back and forth between myself end the dealership and Audi...

[Sima-Koya]

I couldnt read full engine serial number from the sticker to check against the VIN in the advert.

Please if you can make a better photo.

[Backorder]

I couldnt read full engine serial number from the sticker to check against the VIN in the advert.

Please if you can make a better photo.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201224/c25fb265067dd874a09c633f40546448.jpg
CRE 037830 Please check against my vin

Thank you so much for the help!

If you wouldn’t mind, would you be able to take a picture of the screen that shows the serial #?

[Sima-Koya]

Ill do it tomorrow,now is 21:37 at my place and please send your VIN in PM and remove it from here for security reasons.

[Backorder]

Seems like I’m still spinning my wheels here. I have the serial number from the sticker but the serial number is not listed on build sheets and AudiUSA is only able to tell me the engine is CREH and that “the dealership should be able to tell you if the engine has been replaced or not”.

I don’t have any confidence in my local dealership when I take it in tomorrow and I can’t stand that I still have doubt and don’t know for a fact whether the car has 45k on it or 65k+...this has really put a damper on what should have been a really enjoyable experience...

Edit: Dropped the car off about an hour ago and told them a few new things I’ve learned. I then told them to keep it an extra day or two and charge me a diagnostic fee if they have to. I want documentation and at least a percentage of “we are X% convinced this is a replacement” or something like that. I hope to get a definitive answer in the next few days...

[Backorder]

I am seriously so over this right now...

I've talked with AudiUSA on 3 separate occasions and on each of those all I have got is that the engine code should be CREH.
The dealer I bought it from gave me all the service history but doesn't have anything else to add. (Honestly I don't disagree with that...they don't have access to the car so it's not like they could do much)
I brought my car back to the local dealer today where they removed the shielding under the car and spotted the engine serial number on the block which matches the serial number I saw on the sticker on the timing chain. BUT they just called and said even the out of state Audi engineer they talked to is unable to tell them what serial number engine came with the car.

I really don't understand why this is so incredibly difficult but I am at a complete loss of words on what to do. While the service history is great and I love the car I really have no way of knowing 100% if my engine is original and that really puts a damper on the whole experience...

My last ditch attempt with the local dealer is to see if he could verify if the engine in the car is a CREC or a CREH but seeing how everything else has gone so far I doubt they will have anything to add.

Can anyone else offer any other tips? Does anyone work for a dealer or repair shop that can confirm it's literally impossible to know the correct engine for my car? This is just ridiculous...if I can't figure it out for sure I'll likely just trade it in after a year when the certified warranty expires because then I'll have a car that I can't confirm it's mileage and it'll be out of warranty. [headbang][=(]

[Alabama]

I've talked with AudiUSA on 3 separate occasions and on each of those all I have got is that the engine code should be CREH.

I'm just guessing here. I assume when you mention AudiUSA you have spoken with first line customer service. I doubt they have access to the information. You did great by confirming the engine block has a unique serial number stamped on it. Somewhere in Germany is a data table of VINs with the matching engine serial number. I'll speculate that a US Audi dealer either 1. doesn't know how to access the information 2. doesn't care to try, or 3. really does not have access to the information (after all as Bahula03 suggested, it's a manufacturing issue, not a maintenance or sales issue). My thoughts are to go to some Audi event where some higher ranked corporate person (e.g., regional engineer) is present and cajole that person. Maybe someone knows someone in Neckarsulm who can stop in at the factory and inquire on your behalf. A long shot might be to call the consumer protection agency in the state where you bought it and ask what mechanism that state may require dealers to have in place to prevent a possible fraud such as switching an engine.
Don't feel bad; your head put a bigger dent in that brick wall than most people would achieve!

[robd88]

For fun, let's turn this around. What if you had your car towed to Audi with a blown up engine and are claiming warranty repair. What would they do confirm the engine in the car is what came from the factory?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Backorder]

Alright so here is some "good news" I guess:

Local dealer called and stated there is a stamp on the engine that states the engine is a CREH. The good news about this is the other vehicle that was found at LKQ has an engine code of CREH as shown on the car's buildsheet that I saw thanks to Sima-Koya. I know from AudiUSA my car should have a CREH engine.

Through process of elimination I am now more inclined to believe my engine should be original. The local dealership who has looked at it today is believing that as well.

While it isn't 100% proof I did rule out the wrecked vehicle we thought it may be from. Maybe it's possible a part from that engine got onto my car for some reason? Either way, I think I this may be as close as I am going to get and maybe that is good enough? Dealer telling me it seems to be original, maybe I just remove the paint pen, use the certified warranty and enjoy?

[Backorder]

For fun, let's turn this around. What if you had your car towed to Audi with a blown up engine and are claiming warranty repair. What would they do confirm the engine in the car is what came from the factory?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Exactly...there has to be a way right?!?

Side note: I have a lot of family in the greater Chicago area and my dad worked in Naperville when I lived up there until I was 11. I love Naperville!

[fastboatster]

Alright so here is some "good news" I guess:

Local dealer called and stated there is a stamp on the engine that states the engine is a CREH. The good news about this is the other vehicle that was found at LKQ has an engine code of CREH as shown on the car's buildsheet that I saw thanks to Sima-Koya. I know from AudiUSA my car should have a CREH engine.

Through process of elimination I am now more inclined to believe my engine should be original. The local dealership who has looked at it today is believing that as well.

While it isn't 100% proof I did rule out the wrecked vehicle we thought it may be from. Maybe it's possible a part from that engine got onto my car for some reason? Either way, I think I this may be as close as I am going to get and maybe that is good enough? Dealer telling me it seems to be original, maybe I just remove the paint pen, use the certified warranty and enjoy?
How’s that ruling out that 2016 a6? They also came with CREx engine codes, the fact that they got another wreck with CREH engine only means they have quite a few late model a6 wrecks. Unless of course you looked up the build sheet for suspected engine donor car and I didn’t see it. Regardless, just enjoy the car, the replacement engine should be fine

[Backorder]

How’s that ruling out that 2016 a6? They also came with CREx engine codes, the fact that they got another wreck with CREH engine only means they have quite a few late model a6 wrecks. Unless of course you looked up the build sheet for suspected engine donor car and I didn’t see it. Regardless, just enjoy the car, the replacement engine should be fine

One of the members here gave me the build sheet to the suspected wrecked car and it’s build sheet has an engine code of CREC. So it rules out that one car.

Could it still have been replaced? Yeah, but I’ve ruled out the car that has parts on eBay with the same paint pen number so I feel a lot better about it. The local dealer is more confident in the original engine theory now too so I think I’ll remove the paint pen marking and just enjoy the car. Probably still trade it in a couple years just in case.

[fastboatster]

One of the members here gave me the build sheet to the suspected wrecked car and it’s build sheet has an engine code of CREC. So it rules out that one car.

Could it still have been replaced? Yeah, but I’ve ruled out the car that has parts on eBay with the same paint pen number so I feel a lot better about it. The local dealer is more confident in the original engine theory now too so I think I’ll remove the paint pen marking and just enjoy the car. Probably still trade it in a couple years just in case.
hmm, okay, lets agree this is an original engine) one thought though - both CREC and CREH should just have CRE plus some numbers engraved on the engine block and on the upper timing chain cover sticker. Another example is CTUA vs CTUB, both will have CTU engraved. Both CREC and CREH should work just fine with the same ecus.
P.S. sticker on the upper timing chain cover doesn't mean much, that cover can be replaced easily - I mean not really since it's a PITA job like most of the stuff on Audis, but it;s not tamperproof or anything. I'd just check the engraving on the block to make sure that that cover and the block are referring to the same engine serial number.

[Backorder]

hmm, okay, lets agree this is an original engine) one thought though - both CREC and CREH should just have CRE plus some numbers engraved on the engine block and on the upper timing chain cover sticker. Another example is CTUA vs CTUB, both will have CTU engraved. Both CREC and CREH should work just fine with the same ecus.

Dealer is claiming there is both a serial number on the block (CRE 037830) and an engine code which they state my engine has CREH on it. They are going to give me a bunch of paperwork when I pick it up as well as tell me where they saw the numbers, etc so I can double check if need be.

[fastboatster]

Dealer is claiming there is both a serial number on the block (CRE 037830) and an engine code which they state my engine has CREH on it. They are going to give me a bunch of paperwork when I pick it up as well as tell me where they saw the numbers, etc so I can double check if need be.
that's great! I'm sure this all gave you a lot of headache, I'm glad you have it resolved.

[Backorder]

This is what the dealership provided me.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210106/4a48a74e8c0db9c469fef33dda7424c8.jpg

[fastboatster]

This is what the dealership provided me.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210106/4a48a74e8c0db9c469fef33dda7424c8.jpg
if that was me, I'd not let them off the hook until they gave me the actual photos of the engine, not some service manual/service order printout, but that's just me. You can find that number yourself with mirror and a flash light but it's probably okay. It's time to enjoy the car at last)

[Backorder]

if that was me, I'd not let them off the hook until they gave me the actual photos of the engine, not some service manual/service order printout, but that's just me. You can find that number yourself with mirror and a flash light but it's probably okay. It's time to enjoy the car at last)

Honestly I agree it’s pretty a piss poor effort especially since I paid a diagnostic fee today! I may not be fully letting this die just yet because really what did they tell me today? Nothing I didn’t already know except ruling out one vehicle that had junkyard parts with the same #...I clearly have my ups and downs with this. It’s all been pretty terrible lol

[paul-g]

Honestly I agree it’s pretty a piss poor effort especially since I paid a diagnostic fee today! I may not be fully letting this die just yet because really what did they tell me today? Nothing I didn’t already know except ruling out one vehicle that had junkyard parts with the same #...I clearly have my ups and downs with this. It’s all been pretty terrible lol

Well the issue here is they didn't do the work right so it's as much of a headache for them as it is for you...difference is they have nothing invested in getting to bottom of this. Long story short i had a 2013 dodge charger R/T that there was a recall on timing chain guides, brought to dealer in SC (Where i lived at the time) to get recall work done. 1 year later moved back to CT and within 3 weeks it let go (Car had 92k on it so no warranty) motor knocking...towed to Dodge dealer, they pulled pan parts and metal in pan....all they cared about was selling me new motor for 9k installed. no effort put in even though i offered to pay for the exploritory work. Anyhow they told me timing chain parts were in pan and it didn't click that it was done a year ago on a recall and i has 2 year unlimited mileage warranty ....why didn't they look at cars history and do that....that dealer did nothing for me and i went to indy shop and when he looked he saw it was never even touched and they didn't do it...he knew about a recall and stopped and documented everything for me.....i had to dish out $700 to him and fight dodge to get it back and had to send to yet another dodge dealer who had to fix car....was a 3 month nightmare.....point is dealers only want to work for you if they caused the issue or know about it OR if someone is paying them money. like every person who has a job no one does anything for free.

[daytona rs7]

i really dont understand why tracking down if an engine was replaced by a dealer is so difficult.
and
If it was replaced, especially with a used part, why its so hard for the dealer that did the work to provide paperwork with details of the used engine.

this seems to be more complicated than it needs to be.

[Backorder]

i really dont understand why tracking down if an engine was replaced by a dealer is so difficult.
and
If it was replaced, especially with a used part, why its so hard for the dealer that did the work to provide paperwork with details of the used engine.

this seems to be more complicated than it needs to be.

My thought exactly...back to some of the previous comments here, what if the vehicle was stolen and police found a shop with a shell of an Audi and Audi parts all around? Shouldn't they be able to determine what engine went to my car?

Also, to paul-g I completely understand they don't have much skin in the game. This is why I went back to them before Christmas and told them I don't care if I have to pay a diagnostic fee or something like that as long as they can give me at least a percentage of "I believe XX% this engine was replaced based on X". Yesterday I paid them a $160 diagnostic fee to apparently tell me absolutely nothing (other than confirm the serial number on the block which I already knew based on two stickers on the engine). They did create this issue so I fully believe they should be able to sort it out. I think either someone is being lazy or Audi intentionally hides this information for some odd reason....

[Valpo A7]

i really dont understand why tracking down if an engine was replaced by a dealer is so difficult.
and
If it was replaced, especially with a used part, why its so hard for the dealer that did the work to provide paperwork with details of the used engine.

this seems to be more complicated than it needs to be.

If a dealer did the engine swap then it will be documented in the service records. If a Indy shop or home mechanic did it then only that shop and the original owner knows.

[Backorder]

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I thought I’d give an update.

If it’s OK to post, my blog post explains the entire saga https://backordersblog.wordpress.com/2021/04/11/buyer-beware-cpo-isnt-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/

The cliff notes version: 2 months to get confirmation, another 2 months to get the situation rectified.

Thank you to everyone hear voicing opinions, giving suggestions, etc. it kept me going when I wanted to give up!

[Kevin1]

Buy new.

[eurospek]

Did you pay extra for the S6?

[Backorder]

Did you pay extra for the S6?

It’s apparently a lot easier for a dealership to get assistance on a new car than a used one so between dealer discounts and Audi’s assistance we were able to work out terms that were comparable to my A6 payment.

[Cris_OO7]

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I thought I’d give an update.

If it’s OK to post, my blog post explains the entire saga https://backordersblog.wordpress.com/2021/04/11/buyer-beware-cpo-isnt-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/

The cliff notes version: 2 months to get confirmation, another 2 months to get the situation rectified.

Thank you to everyone hear voicing opinions, giving suggestions, etc. it kept me going when I wanted to give up!

The universe wanted you to have something better. Enjoy it you deserve it.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Alabama]

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I thought I’d give an update.

If it’s OK to post, my blog post explains the entire saga https://backordersblog.wordpress.com/2021/04/11/buyer-beware-cpo-isnt-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/

The cliff notes version: 2 months to get confirmation, another 2 months to get the situation rectified.

Thank you to everyone hear voicing opinions, giving suggestions, etc. it kept me going when I wanted to give up!

Great story! Glad things worked out (finally). Time to update your AZ signature!

[ericw.]

I didn't see it mentioned here so I thought I'd mention it. If Audi installs a new engine, the car gets a new warranty even if it was previously TD1.

Glad the dealer rectified the situation.

[eurospek]

It’s apparently a lot easier for a dealership to get assistance on a new car than a used one so between dealer discounts and Audi’s assistance we were able to work out terms that were comparable to my A6 payment.

Glad to hear it. The minute I saw the sharpie writing and found the Lkq parts on eBay with same writing I knew it was fishy.

[Backorder]

OK guys...it’s been a couple weeks since I got the S6 and I love it so that’s all going well.

BUT I just noticed today the dealership has listed the A6 with the replacement engine for sale again!!! No link yet to the CARFAX so I’m wondering if anyone here can run the VIN and see if it shows as a buyback?

I don’t mind if they sell the car again but I worry for whoever buys this as there is nothing in the description saying it’s a junkyard engine nor does the price reflect a replacement engine.

Tomorrow I’m going to talk to customer service and let them know. I DONT want this to happen to someone else too!

Could this be considered false advertisement? The reason I ask is because the competition package received a small power boost of 7hp over the standard A6. As this car has a replacement engine with a standard tune it wouldn’t be a Competition A6 engine so would it be a lie to still offer it as a Competition A6?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210418/b24f7bbaa77dcc3fbb9bebf462f84962.jpg

[Burkeomatic]

Personally, I would just let it be at this point. You ended up with a new car out of it and other than having a different engine in it, it is running fine I suppose. As long as they aren't selling it CPO or advertising it as having the original engine, I don't see the issue. It honestly seems like fair game to me, plus would it be worse if they advertised it as having a "new engine" or "replaced" engine? As a non-CPO car it is pretty much fair game as far as buying and selling used cars on the market from the legal standpoint I believe. On a side note, is this the Audi North Park here in San Antonio?

[Valpo A7]

Searching their page shows that they have no cars listed as CPO. They also have a link to the car fax report which shows nothing for during the time you owned it for about 3 months other than routine items. Looks like the previous owner took some damage to the driver side, must have been minor to still be able to list it CPO when you bought it.

Between the damage and the fact that the CarFax shows you had it a very short time and there is very low mileage during your ownership, I suspect that will cause the car to sit longer than expected. Just because it has a used engine in it does not make it a bad car to own. Yes its shitty that you had to dig as much as you did to find out about the engine. As long as the engine performs well for the next owner then no big deal in my book. Still no big deal in the 7HP difference as well. Its probably a slight variance in the engine tune anyways. The factory probably has a skid of engines that they grab from and put in the car. I can't see them having a regular engine and competition engine skid to grab from, just too much space requirements and chances of error if installing the wrong engine.

Even if you would have kept the car and had a warranty on it then no big deal, you would have still enjoyed it for a long time.

[Backorder]

Personally, I would just let it be at this point. You ended up with a new car out of it and other than having a different engine in it, it is running fine I suppose. As long as they aren't selling it CPO or advertising it as having the original engine, I don't see the issue. It honestly seems like fair game to me, plus would it be worse if they advertised it as having a "new engine" or "replaced" engine? As a non-CPO car it is pretty much fair game as far as buying and selling used cars on the market from the legal standpoint I believe. On a side note, is this the Audi North Park here in San Antonio?

Yeah...I have had a couple other friends tell me the same thing. I just hate what happened to me and see this ending the same way. Except this time it's just sold as-is to someone who will have no ground to stand on if they want to return it. Also, you are correct on the dealer location.

[Burkeomatic]

Yeah...I have had a couple other friends tell me the same thing. I just hate what happened to me and see this ending the same way. Except this time it's just sold as-is to someone who will have no ground to stand on if they want to return it. Also, you are correct on the dealer location.

I feel you, it is a crappy experience, and I would hate to end up with the car. If I had to venture a guess, they probably didn't do an "official buyback" and probably just did the paperwork to make it look like a trade in, so it wouldn't be flagged as far as the carfax thing goes. I guess I will be doing my business with Audi Dominion from now on. I am half tempted to go drive it though.

[bahula03]

Congrats on the S6, that's about as good an end to this saga as there could've been.

With the dealer selling the A6, I generally agree with just letting it go. Both CarFax and AutoCheck have processes to have items removed from history reports, so stands to reason that if you contacted them with documentation they may add the engine replacement to the report, but who knows what they'll do since the motor wasn't replaced during your ownership. State law usually determines what car dealers are required to disclose to buyers, should be pretty easy to look that up and report it if you're so inclined. Annoying that whoever put in the used salvage motor isn't stuck dealing with all of these consequences, but that is life.

[maxa4turbo]

I bought the Engine Long Block and noticed that SN is not engraved on engine block https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.audiworld.com-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_7124_aee4d81ebbd040347163201f770ddfd35de5c19d. jpg

[Avantly]

Have you looked at the mileage reports logged by CARFAX to make sure that they make sense? With solutions from communist china it is relatively easy to change the odometer even on these BCM2 vehicles (at least until last year when VAG shut down some servers). I live near Detroit and from the "desert flavor" dealers it is a common practice to reduce odometer reading on vehicles before sale to something some margin above the last reported reading. This is why I avoid low mileage vehicles unless their history can be proven in its entirety. I have gone to test drive "low mileage" audis where the dealer forgot to clear codes from all modules and there were codes with a mileage reading more than twice what the odometer was reading. I have test driven personal vehicles for sale that supposedly had "less than 3k miles per year" put on them that clearly had 10x that. That is the reason I decided never to buy a car from my state again unless the odometer was well over 150k. You just can't trust any dealer nowadays and have to do your own research to make sure that the carfax/etc reports actually make sense. Any big gaps in time or mileage, non-linear progression of mileage, etc and the vehicle is suspect.

[brabenec]

Checked the history of vehicle, fuel lines replaced in 2018 and water pump in 2020. There is no way Audi dealer would replace the engine with used one. If the replacement is due in warranty they will source brand new engine and this will appear in system since Audi pays for it, not the dealer itself. Yes, we can see engine numbers paired to VIN and I am sure Audi HQ in USA can access this as well but it is very likely that dealers do not have such access.

Note: There are not VIN stamped on VW engines, each engine has its own number paired to VIN.

[Avantly]

Yeah I am glad you got it resolved I just wanted to reinforce the point that there are few trustworthy sellers out there nowadays whether it is an Audi dealer, independent dealer or private seller. If anything seems slightly off, then it probably is. It is way too easy to change odometers nowadays and I've always considered carfax a joke; I've seen so many previously crashed vehicles with "clean CARFAX" that I only run a carfax if the vehicle is being sold as pristine/low mileage/etc. In SE michigan I have seen so many cars for sale with obviously modified odometer readings that I just won't buy a car in this region anymore unless it's a high mileage junker or the seller can show verified owner service records with odometer progressing in a linear manner throughout ownership. At least some things can be verified with serial numbers, like your engine.