Intercooler for APR Dual Pulley?

[oopsy]

Quick question for the group re: intercoolers and dual pulley.

I recently bought a 2016 A7, 55k miles, in good shape. I am planning on doing an APR dual pulley tune for fun daily driving--I won’t be going to a track ever. For what it's worth, I plan on keeping this car for at least 5 years or longer, I usually keep them for >>10.

In getting quotes, one shop told me I did not need to install an intercooler and I would be just fine assuming I wasn’t going to be tracking it, doing hard pulls back to back, etc. They felt strongly about it being a waste for me.

Another shop, and most everyone else I’ve talk to, advised that I should do the intercooler if not just for heat soak and loss of power but also for wear and tear which would presumably be worse with less cooling, etc. I don’t really understand the rationale, but that’s the thought.

When I look online here, clearly the consensus is IC for DP, but my question is it to get the most out of the tune, or is it for longevity's sake? Is there really a benefit to having the intercooler or longevity/maintenance benefit? I’m happy to do it, it is an extra ~750 (450 for Merc intercooler, 2hrs of labor, taxes) to do it given that I will be doing everything all at once at the shop (currently stock). I just don’t know who to believe and want to make sure I'm doing it for my needs/purposes. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!


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[jcoleman_11]

An intercooler cools air.
You’re talking about a heat exchanger. It cools liquid.

And to answer your question, yes, absolutely upgrade your heat exchanger if dual pulley.

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[oopsy]

Yikes, I got even more confused!. Yes I should have been saying heat exchanger.


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[XLR8 Craig]

Another vote for absolutely upgrade the heat exchanger!

The vehicle sees IATs rise, and when they cross the "safety threshold" it will dial back power output. The cars do this to protect the engine from excessive intake air temperature - which would just continue to rise.

APR threw a B8 S4 up on their dyno with the factory cooler and horsepower began derating on the first pull, and the IAT threshold was crossed by the end of that as well. They ran another pull and the trend continued. The factory cooling system was not up to snuff. Peak horsepower dropped to as low as 260 AWHP. With the APR cooling system the car retained over 400 AWHP, even after the sixth consecutive back-to-back pull! The car had dual pulleys and a Ultracharger on it - but there benefits are the same without the Ultracharger.

I've got APRs in stock ready to go. You can see them on our site here: https://xlr8performance.com/i-37144-apr-3-0-4-0-tfsi-coolant-performance-system-cps.html

Keeping your IATs as low as possible will also help keep your catalytic converters healthy as possible for as long as possible. They are prone to failure in these cars due to their placement. The cats sit right in the engine bay and just bake - which will eventually damage the substrate and cause them to fail.

Send me a PM if you have any questions or want to get parts headed your way!

[jrubio96]

Its not really for longevity sake. The purpose for a larger and more efficient heat exchanger is cooler IATs, and quicker recovery from heat soak. Cooler IATs means better boost which equates to slightly better performance.

[wootwoot]

For that price it's a no brainier. The shop here wants nearly $800 just for install of a HX. 4.5 hours of labor at $150 an hour plus coolant and shop fees.

[XLR8 Craig]

Its not really for longevity sake. The purpose for a larger and more efficient heat exchanger is cooler IATs, and quicker recovery from heat soak. Cooler IATs means better boost which equates to slightly better performance.

While longevity is not the main goal of the cooler (not fighting that one bit) it is byproduct of cooler IATs.

[ticklechicken]

Is there a comparison between the $1,029 APR (https://xlr8performance.com/i-37144-apr-3-0-4-0-tfsi-coolant-performance-system-cps.html) and the $424 Merc (https://mercracing.net/shop/air-to-water-high-capacity-heat-exchanger-for-audi-s4/) heat exchangers? I'm looking at the descriptions, and there's no data that could be used to objectively compare them.

[jrubio96]

Not sure how the sizing is between the two, but the Merc is a quad pass versus APR being a dual pass. So that should make the merc more effective at cooling as it provides more time for the coolant temp to lower

[WatchMeSpend]

Not sure how the sizing is between the two, but the Merc is a quad pass versus APR being a dual pass. So that should make the merc more effective at cooling as it provides more time for the coolant temp to lower

I wouldn't say that is an effective comparison. I don't think that you can get as much airflow through the thicker heat exchanger to the radiator behind it. This could mean higher engine coolant temps or less airflow across the multiple core thicker HX.

I have no doubt that both will work fine, but from what I understand the APR CPS is self bleeding while the merc is not meaning make sure to burp the system. Also people might not want he visibility of the APR unit through the grille.

[BobbyWatts]

Some first-hand experience with this as I went APR dual pulley with no HX for my first mod/s. Had it on a dyno, was supposed to log three pulls and the shop pulled the car off after the second because their was a 30+whp loss from heat soak and they were afraid a third pull would only be worse + lead to potential damage. After APR HX - three pulls with very little variation in numbers - I think about 10+/- whp loss in the end. Worth every penny.

[ticklechicken]

Some first-hand experience with this as I went APR dual pulley with no HX for my first mod/s. Had it on a dyno, was supposed to log three pulls and the shop pulled the car off after the second because their was a 30+whp loss from heat soak and they were afraid a third pull would only be worse + lead to potential damage. After APR HX - three pulls with very little variation in numbers - I think about 10+/- whp loss in the end. Worth every penny.
Thanks for the info. That's very interesting.