How to run water meth kit in our tfsi engines?

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

Hey. Was leaning towards adding water meth kit into my stg2+ built ( soon to be stg3 BT) and was wondering what all is needed to add water meth kit to your tfsi engines with oem plastic manifold? Seen pics that you can add the meth nozzle to the plastic manifold by modifying it.

Anyone share some light on this idea thx :)

[james12lucy]

I have added methanol nozzles to the plastic manifold and it is fairly easy. Although, it’s easier to just add a single nozzle with a throttlebody plate.

If you are really interested in running direct port injection, I could sell you the manifold.

The other option is to go exotic and buy an aftermarket billet or cast aluminum manifold that already has the bungs.

The best bang for the buck is really running one injector in a throttlebody plate, and welding another one into your intercooler piping. It all comes down to your control strategy after that.

Ultimately, I am running five injectors now, with a potential sixth.


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[oVeRdOsE]

^^ what he said.

Depends on your needs.

I choose a ' plug it, forget it' kit. ON/OFF boost switch (@12psi) . on the windshied washer tank. pre-TB, on the OEM rubber hose. single 250cc. Pre-tb because It keeps the temp sensor cold, so my timing is steady.

can't search for the threads right now, but on B7 I saw :

- individual nozzle on 4 intake ports.
- post- tb with the spacer kit
- pre-tb
- post-tb AND pre-tb
- post-tb and post-intercooler.

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

I have added methanol nozzles to the plastic manifold and it is fairly easy. Although, it’s easier to just add a single nozzle with a throttlebody plate.

If you are really interested in running direct port injection, I could sell you the manifold.

The other option is to go exotic and buy an aftermarket billet or cast aluminum manifold that already has the bungs.

The best bang for the buck is really running one injector in a throttlebody plate, and welding another one into your intercooler piping. It all comes down to your control strategy after that.

Ultimately, I am running five injectors now, with a potential sixth.


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Can we chat on whatsapp more about this :)? hit me a pm

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

^^ what he said.

Depends on your needs.

I choose a ' plug it, forget it' kit. ON/OFF boost switch (@12psi) . on the windshied washer tank. pre-TB, on the OEM rubber hose. single 250cc. Pre-tb because It keeps the temp sensor cold, so my timing is steady.

can't search for the threads right now, but on B7 I saw :

- individual nozzle on 4 intake ports.
- post- tb with the spacer kit
- pre-tb
- post-tb AND pre-tb
- post-tb and post-intercooler.
will a K04 hybrid loba motorsport turbo be good enough when adding water meth if adding a tb spacer?

[oVeRdOsE]

TB spacer is good to avoid misting on the TB flap, so it keeps the atomisation at best until it reaches the valves. The downside is the nozzle is after the temp sensor. In that case, you'll better be as per james advice; adding a nozzle on the intercooler pipe (intake side, not turbo side)

Water/meth quantity will depend on you mix, timing goal, power goal, etc.
Also take in considaration your daily mileage, running a 1500CC will empty the tank fast, and it could be annoying to fill it every time.

The AEM chart is very good :

https://markenperformance.com/files/Upload%20Pics/AEM/aem_water_methanol_nozzle_flow_guide.jpg


Personanly, since my kit is very simple, I used the rule of thumbs : On a 50/50 water/meth mix, nozzle CC = Hp goal. If you run more water , you need to lower CC. 100% water ; CC=1/2HP goal.

I choose 250cc, since I'm running a bit more water . 70/30.

also , get a solenoid, to avoid siphoning.

finaly, depending of your budget, keep in mind, unless you have a crazy build that need 100+octane on idle , and if not it will explode; a ON/OFF kit VS a fully stand alone management kit, will not justify the price difference.

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

TB spacer is good to avoid misting on the TB flap, so it keeps the atomisation at best until it reaches the valves. The downside is the nozzle is after the temp sensor. In that case, you'll better be as per james advice; adding a nozzle on the intercooler pipe (intake side, not turbo side)

Water/meth quantity will depend on you mix, timing goal, power goal, etc.
Also take in considaration your daily mileage, running a 1500CC will empty the tank fast, and it could be annoying to fill it every time.

The AEM chart is very good :

https://markenperformance.com/files/Upload%20Pics/AEM/aem_water_methanol_nozzle_flow_guide.jpg


Personanly, since my kit is very simple, I used the rule of thumbs : On a 50/50 water/meth mix, nozzle CC = Hp goal. If you run more water , you need to lower CC. 100% water ; CC=1/2HP goal.

I choose 250cc, since I'm running a bit more water . 70/30.

also , get a solenoid, to avoid siphoning.

finaly, depending of your budget, keep in mind, unless you have a crazy build that need 100+octane on idle , and if not it will explode; a ON/OFF kit VS a fully stand alone management kit, will not justify the price difference.

Goal is to hit 500hp after winter with a hx40 super. or let's say 500-600 range. depend on what the turbo will give out. So what cc nozzle should i am for in that hp range?

[james12lucy]

Goal is to hit 500hp after winter with a hx40 super. or let's say 500-600 range. depend on what the turbo will give out. So what cc nozzle should i am for in that hp range?

Your goal is lofty to say the least. You’re fuel limited with the direct injector options available. You’ll at best find 450awhp unless you’re going with an exotic injector option or aux injection.


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[Ronny_Nordstrom]

Your goal is lofty to say the least. You’re fuel limited with the direct injector options available. You’ll at best find 450awhp unless you’re going with an exotic injector option or aux injection.


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The mods i have done now is following to fuel side: rs4 controller, bosch 044 lpfp, autotec hpfp internals, s3 injectors. Engine internals are all changed from springs to connection rods. How much is 450awhp converted into engine hp?

[james12lucy]

Your injector choice won’t get you anywhere near 450 wheel horsepower. You’ll be lucky if you see 400 wheel horsepower.

Account for 20-25% drivetrain loss for whp.


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[Ronny_Nordstrom]

Your injector choice won’t get you anywhere near 450 wheel horsepower. You’ll be lucky if you see 400 wheel horsepower.


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yeah that what i was afraid. better of going with rs4 injector b5?

[james12lucy]

yeah that what i was afraid. better of going with rs4 injector b5?

B5 RS4 injectors aren’t direct injection and won’t work. You could use B7 RS4 injectors, but it’s still a lofty goal.


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[Ronny_Nordstrom]

was looking at Boost Cooler S2E POWER-MAX snow performance kit and that Tb spacer to add the nozzle

- - - Updated - - -


B5 RS4 injectors aren’t direct injection and won’t work. You could use B7 RS4 injectors, but it’s still a lofty goal.


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what injectors do you recommend?

[esandes]

I'd add the integrated engineering intake which has individual connections for injection at each port. I have 2+ as well and I heard you can run the stage 3 tune for meth although APR may not agree with that.

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

I'd add the integrated engineering intake which has individual connections for injection at each port. I have 2+ as well and I heard you can run the stage 3 tune for meth although APR may not agree with that.
I was planning to add meth to oem manifold at first and later save up to a IE manifold. Love the look of it.

[oVeRdOsE]

snowperformance is a pretty solid option. This kit is more or less if you car 'needs' a meth kit.

If not, a freaking simple kit, it the bosphorus performance innovation stage 1+ turbo.

For the nozzle you can start with 500CC on the TB plate, and 250cc pre-tb.

A friend is running 1000CC on a k04 custom build on a 1.8T B6, and its way enough.
on a 100octane map, and if the kit fails (low juice of anything else), the tune will get in safe mode. The kit needs aux output to the ecu.

On higher CC number, you need a custom tune to take advantage of it. methanol is fuel,

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

snowperformance is a pretty solid option. This kit is more or less if you car 'needs' a meth kit.

If not, a freaking simple kit, it the bosphorus performance innovation stage 1+ turbo.

For the nozzle you can start with 500CC on the TB plate, and 250cc pre-tb.

A friend is running 1000CC on a k04 custom build on a 1.8T B6, and its way enough.
on a 100octane map, and if the kit fails (low juice of anything else), the tune will get in safe mode. The kit needs aux output to the ecu.

On higher CC number, you need a custom tune to take advantage of it. methanol is fuel,

Thanks for this input! So one nozzle to the TB and one nozzle before MAP right?

[EvolutionArmory]

Goal is to hit 500hp after winter with a hx40 super. or let's say 500-600 range. depend on what the turbo will give out. So what cc nozzle should i am for in that hp range?

Pick a different car if you want that performance. Take a look around the builds section. There’s hardly anyone even making 400 wheel.

Maybe with some 1500 dollar Nostrom injectors, a PM4 fuel controller and a Walbro 450 you could hit 500 HP in a B7. The fueling options aren’t plentiful and the options we do have are expensive.

Good luck.

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

Pick a different car if you want that performance. Take a look around the builds section. There’s hardly anyone even making 400 wheel.

Maybe with some 1500 dollar Nostrom injectors, a PM4 fuel controller and a Walbro 450 you could hit 500 HP in a B7. The fueling options aren’t plentiful and the options we do have are expensive.

Good luck.

what would it take to reach 500hp?

[james12lucy]

what would it take to reach 500hp?

Barely.

Why are you dead set on 500hp? You’re fuel limited a s this isn’t the platforms or it. If I were to do it again I’d go the B6 1.8T route.


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[Ronny_Nordstrom]

Barely.

Why are you dead set on 500hp? You’re fuel limited a s this isn’t the platforms or it. If I were to do it again I’d go the B6 1.8T route.


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What is limiting the fuel if not the injectors? can do custom fuel lines to engine if needed as this is no't my daily car :)

[EvolutionArmory]

Everything on the B7 is fuel limited. The stock fuel pump controller can’t supply enough amps and duty to drive a fuel pump. Needs a 700 dollar fuel pump controller to do so. The fuel pumps can’t flow enough fuel so you gotta drop in an aftermarket pump but plumbing in the other side of a Quattro tank can be a pain. Plus there’s not a lot of aftermarket fuel pump adapters so you either have to make your own or buy JHM’s bracket to 200 bucks.

The high pressure fuel pump might have trouble supplying enough fuel pressure for 500 without going with a Golf R cam and a upgraded HPFP. And all of those fuel bottle necks are all before you even get to the injectors, and higher flowing injector options are low.

What type of high pressure fuel does 500 HP need? Does anyone know? 200 bar? More?


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[james12lucy]

What is limiting the fuel if not the injectors? can do custom fuel lines to engine if needed as this is no't my daily car :)

I have no idea if you know what you’re doing. Custom fuel lines won’t do anything. There are several bottlenecks, the injectors being the first one. Secondly, the high-pressure fuel pump can only flow as much fuel as it can flow. It will probably tap out at about 550 hp before you can’t get more fuel. Your RS4 fuel controller probably won’t do a good enough job to supply enough fuel unless you are running a Walbro 485. There are SEVERAL limiting factors to making power in these things.

For reference, I’m running a fully built bottom end, built head, IE manifold with direct port meth, HPFPUpgrades stage 2 HPFP (20% more than comparable hpfp upgrades), RS4 injectors, twin 485s, TorqByte PM3 and CM5-LT to control fuel and meth, and a top mounted IndyCar EFR 7163 and I’m hopeful for 400hp.


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[james12lucy]

Everything on the B7 is fuel limited. The stock fuel pump controller can’t supply enough amps and duty to drive a fuel pump. Needs a 700 dollar fuel pump controller to do so. The fuel pumps can’t flow enough fuel so you gotta drop in an aftermarket pump but plumbing in the other tank can be a pain.

The high pressure fuel pump might have trouble supplying enough fuel pressure for 500 without going with a Golf R cam and a upgraded HPFP. And all of those fuel bottle necks are all before you even get to the injectors, and higher flowing injector options are low.

What type of high pressure fuel does 500 HP need? Does anyone know? 200 bar? More?


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This.

And it’ll need about 175BAR...

The only viable way to make more power is aux injection. It’s bot hard to do, but it’s complicated and tuning isn’t exactly easy. That’ll also require two pumps, a return fuel line, and control for both pumps. Ask how I know...


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[Ronny_Nordstrom]

I have no idea if you know what you’re doing. Custom fuel lines won’t do anything. There are several bottlenecks, the injectors being the first one. Secondly, the high-pressure fuel pump can only flow as much fuel as it can flow. It will probably tap out at about 550 hp before you can’t get more fuel. Your RS4 fuel controller probably won’t do a good enough job to supply enough fuel unless you are running a Walbro 485. There are SEVERAL limiting factors to making power in these things.

For reference, I’m running a fully built bottom end, built head, IE manifold with direct port meth, HPFPUpgrades stage 2 HPFP (20% more than comparable hpfp upgrades), RS4 injectors, twin 485s, TorqByte PM3 and CM5-LT to control fuel and meth, and a top mounted IndyCar EFR 7163 and I’m hopeful for 400hp.


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So my rs4 controller and bosch 044 motorpsort pump wont be enough? and my golf R cams and autotec hpfp will not bring enough fuel? was aiming also to change the rs4 controller for a TorqByte PM3 but the wiring looks confusing

[EvolutionArmory]

By the time you’re done building a 500 HP B7 you could have bought a B8 S4 and got a tune and 2 pulleys and gap the B7. 🤣🤣


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[Ronny_Nordstrom]

By the time you’re done building a 500 HP B7 you could have bought a B8 S4 and got a tune and 2 pulleys and gap the B7. 🤣🤣


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yeah i heard that they are easy to tune [drive]

[EvolutionArmory]

Can I give you some advice? Make a plan and make it happen. As of right now you’re all over the place.

Pick a reasonable HP goal. Pick a turbo that can do it and find a tuner that can actually tune it. Then ask your tuner what hardware he needs you to buy to get it to work.

Have a plan. Make the plan happen.


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[EvolutionArmory]

You also said you have a built motor. Did you build the head so you can go to 8000 RPM’s? If not you’re gonna have a really short powerband as a 500 HP turbo is gonna spool slow.

Did you drop compression down to run the high boost a 500 HP turbo will provide? If not you’ll be knock limited if your CR is too high.

If you didn’t do these things, drop your goal or build your motor again.


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[james12lucy]

Also, you’re in Poland. Look up with all of the MK5 Volkswagen guys in Greece do. They make fuelling and tuning kits for your needs. You can get there cheaper where you are.


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[canadianA4B7]

I’ll sell you the intake, fueling upgrades and injectors needed for 650 HP tuner guarantees 507@ wheels before meth.

[Ronny_Nordstrom]

I’ll sell you the intake, fueling upgrades and injectors needed for 650 HP tuner guarantees 507@ wheels before meth.

send me a pm and list what you got m8