K04 Upgrade

[mbruveris12]

Looking to get some feedback from those of you out there that have been running K04 upgrades on stock internals for a little bit of time. I know companies like JHM and APR claim their K04 upgrades do not require any internal upgrades, however, I have read of some people bending rods on a K04. Was this simply bad tuning? I'd be going down the JHM K04-R route as I have basically everything else besides the K04 itself and the s3 injectors. Thanks for any responses!

[vce1232000]

Ive been running the APR KO4 [race] tune since 2013. All stock internals. No issue going on 260,000 miles now. I [wrench] KO4 @ 163,000 miles [;)]

[rhfosu]

K04 has a torque spike that can bend rods, yes. If this is a concern for you, APR's tune is probably the most conservative of what's available.

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[EvolutionArmory]

Get the CTS K04 and the GIAC K04 tune. It’s a great combo.

The K04R is a decent turbo but it’s not better than the CTS. (I’ve had both)

[MALMGRDC]

Another vote for CTS

[mbruveris12]

Just wondering why the CTS over the K0R? I’ve read that the K0R is more of a hybrid for better flow up top? Also I was reading through your build thread, how has the MBC been working in parallel with the N75? I’d probably run something similar since I am still on stock rods and don’t want to be spiking too high.

[EvolutionArmory]

The K04R wheel can flow more on paper...but that’s about it. The problem is you still have a K04 exhaust manifold and turbine housing limiting flow.

The new CTS K04 is built to K04 specs. No fancy wheels, no BS claims and my airflow logs from both turbos are nearly identical. My car logs 280 GS max from both turbos. The CTS just gets to the 270-280 GS area a couple hundred RPM’s faster.

CTS also uses true K04 size housings. They even designed their own compressor housing with their logo cast into it so you know they don’t just outsource the same housings as everyone else.

The JHM turbo is a decent product but it’s nothing special. It’s definitely not better than the CTS turbo. Maybe if JHM ported the manifold or wastegate it could make more power but it’s no better than a normal K04.

[EvolutionArmory]

Oh and the MBC is working exactly as I had hoped. No more 30 PSI spikes. Right now it peaks 21-22 PSI for a couple hundred RPM’s and I can adjust that down with one turn of the dial. I’m running a 9 PSI crack pressure though. If you buy the CTS Turbo they come set to 8 so you won’t peak as high as I was. The high crack pressure lets me spool to 20 PSI at 2700 and the MBC kills the spikes 😀

[mbruveris12]

Thanks for the info! I’m more than likely gonna pick up a CTS K04 and pair it with APR’s tune then. I want a stronger powerband but I’m also not looking to run anything super aggressive and blow sh*t up lol.

[mbruveris12]

If you don’t mind me asking, what MBC are you running? I’ve been having a hard time finding much info on them for our platform.

[EvolutionArmory]

It really shouldn’t matter. MBC’s are generic. I went with Intergraded Engineering’s MBC because it’s beefy and it’s the ball and spring kind. You could go with a Forge bleed style or Go Fast Bits, doesn’t matter.


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[Charles.waite]

K04 has a torque spike that can bend rods, yes. If this is a concern for you, APR's tune is probably the most conservative of what's available.

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I thought the APR tune was the one bending rods?

[EvolutionArmory]

I thought the APR tune was the one bending rods?

By now all the tuners figured out how not to bend rods. Keep torque limited, low timing advance down low.

I’d like to see some APR logs some day. People love to say APR is tame but look at the B8 forum. The faster cars are running APR software.


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[rhfosu]

I thought the APR tune was the one bending rods?

I had a K04 with APR tune on my GTI. It was only ok, even on that lighter platform. I do not remember much punch down low. My B7 sedan was previously owned by an engineer at APR, and he had their K04 with a custom APR tune for the RS4 PRV and a 3 bar MAP. This was not a tune they offered publicly. However, THAT car would haul. It blew the seals out of their K04 in only 20k miles, unfortunately, and I replaced it with a loba, and it felt even quicker after that. Anyway, I had many convos with the guy who worked at APR before he left, and he told me their canned K04 file for the B7 had been dialed specifically to minimize the spike. They had the same problem later with the file for the TSI though. My anecdotal evidence, having had two very different cars with the same mill and turbo but different files, suggests their canned file is sufficiently muted for safety. I understand if that isn't worth much.

[Charles.waite]

No that’s way more verifiable information than I was aware of. My understanding is based on forum chatter more or less, frankly I’ll believe you here particularly since you have hands on experience haha. Consider my opinion changed.

[EvolutionArmory]

Basically what most tuners are doing is trying to make sure that there’s no timing advance at peak spool and gradually ramp it up towards redline. So zero advance or maybe even negative at 3K and gradually ramp it up to like 10-12 degrees at redline. Octane will determine how much timing you can run. How well the tuner dialed in your N75 map will determine how bad your boost spike is.

Having a bad boost spike can throw your whole timing curve into a huge mess.

[Operator]

I thought the APR tune was the one bending rods?

I ran their 100oct K04 file for a couple years with no issues.

[EvolutionArmory]

I think APR had rod bending issues at the very beginning. There have been revisions since then.

I don’t remember exactly but I don’t think APR’s original K04 for this platform was like what it is now.


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[vce1232000]

I ran their 100oct K04 file for a couple years with no issues.

I was actually thinking about [wrench] the APR KO4 100 octane file. But I would need to [wrench]a meth kit & [drive]with it all year round. That mite not make it economically feasible with all the meth juice or washier fluid I need to purchase [:(]

[EvolutionArmory]

Meth is really fun.

Just justify it as carbon buildup preventative maintenance. A washer tank full of meth lasts me weeks as long as I’m not doing logs.

I buy my VP Racing 100% meth in 5 gallons containers. It takes like 6 months or more to go through 10 gallons of 50/50 meth.

[EvolutionArmory]

A good meth kit costs as much as a walnut blast at the mechanic’s shop. It will pay for itself over time.

[Operator]

I think APR had rod bending issues at the very beginning. There have been revisions since then.

I don’t remember exactly but I don’t think APR’s original K04 for this platform was like what it is now.


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Hardware and software wise they had a completely different kit in the beginning.

[vce1232000]

Hardware and software wise they had a completely different kit in the beginning.

If I remember correctly. Their 1st KO4 kit for the B7 A4 2.0T was marketed as a upgraded turbo assembly with a larger wheel to the KO3 & didnt need S3 injectors. But had a special tune. [:)].

[vce1232000]

Meth is really fun.

Just justify it as carbon buildup preventative maintenance. A washer tank full of meth lasts me weeks as long as I’m not doing logs.

I buy my VP Racing 100% meth in 5 gallons containers. It takes like 6 months or more to go through 10 gallons of 50/50 meth.


A good meth kit costs as much as a walnut blast at the mechanic’s shop. It will pay for itself over time.

[up] selling points for meth for sure. I mite get this [wrench]over the winter for because [:D]

[EvolutionArmory]

[up] selling points for meth for sure. I mite get this [wrench]over the winter for because [:D]

My 2 nozzle system seems to be working pretty good but I might build a direct port system out of the spare manifold I have. 5 nozzles is better than 2. 😀

Methanol is by far my favorite mod. Seeing sub ambient intake temps and running more timing really wakes the K04 up.