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View Full Version : K04 to GT28RS switch..



Eurasia_1.8T
03-21-2006, 06:53 AM
I'm making a switch from a K04 to a GT28rs and am wondering if it's okay to keep running K04 software with the GT28rs turbo? My software now is a 1.2bar K04 chip from Neuspeed. I plan to upgrade software in the future, but not the near future if I don't have to. The way I see it I'd just be keeping it at 17.5lbs on a bigger turbo so I should see gains anyway even if it's not the typical gains from boosting more with a program that is GT28 specific. Am I wrong about this? Also, would I still be able to run stock injectors with a 5bar FPR or do I need to go with bigger injectors and still run a 5bar? The K04 software is programmed for stock injectors with a 5bar FPR. Any input? Thanks.

AudiA4_20T
03-21-2006, 07:10 AM
I wouldnt recommend keeping the software AT ALL. The software is tuned for a quick spool with the K04 and will mess up ure AF ratios like crazy. And the way you see it isn't exactly correct because there are more factors then just boost. You would need bigger injectors anyway with the turbo...

My suggestion - buy ure kit for the GT28RS... wait till you can get it all put in at once with the right injectors, FPR, software, (and clutch and frontmount if u dont have them already)

Eurasia_1.8T
03-21-2006, 07:17 AM
Clutch I have already, fmic should be here tomorrow or day after. That's pretty much the input I was looking for (A/F). Thanks. I'll send my other ECU for programming and order injectors soon as well as other relative misc. parts needed. It's too early in the morning for my brain... Cheers.

AudiA4_20T
03-21-2006, 07:32 AM
Hah yeah no problem... It would be so much easier if u could just swap turbos... but u cant...[rolleyes]

Rosati
03-21-2006, 08:22 AM
Think about the torque output levels at different points of the k04 vs Gt28

where the k04 is weak, the 28 is strong, so there is no way the k04 software will even run smoothly.

Just do it right, it will be worth it in the end.

BranCKY3
03-21-2006, 08:26 AM
You'd have no problem if you stayed out of boost, but that's gonna be extremely hard to do.

Howard Hughes
03-21-2006, 08:28 AM
You guys(B5er's) had trouble running the GT28rs with GT28rs software, I can't imagine it would work well or at all with K04 software.

alen
03-21-2006, 08:56 AM
a local is running t04 with giac k04 software for a while now and he says the car runs great.

onemoremile
03-21-2006, 09:06 AM
there have also been some skydivers that lived through their parachutes not opening. doesn't mean everyone should try it that way on purpose.

do it all at once and tune it as a system. ask tom ritt about taking shortcuts with tuning. that is a road i wouldn't want to go down.

Eurasia_1.8T
03-21-2006, 09:09 AM
ha.. i saw pics of his block. i'm not into taking short cuts either. i was just curious about something, but it was answered within the first reply. cheers.

TomRitt18944
03-21-2006, 09:09 AM
^^bingo, wait until u have the programming and fueling

mike-2ptzero
03-21-2006, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by alen
a local is running t04 with giac k04 software for a while now and he says the car runs great.


I also bet he is using things to work around the software, things like larger maf to work with the larger injectors but even that isn't 100% since load readings get thrown off. One thing to remember is that BOOST doesn't equal air flow so when you run a larger turbo at the same boost as a K03 the air flow is much higher.


The guy with the T04 would also run much better if the car was tuned for that turbo.

SeanF
03-21-2006, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
One thing to remember is that BOOST doesn't equal air flow so when you run a larger turbo at the same boost as a K03 the air flow is much higher.

while ive always known this to be true, ive never physically understood it...

if the volume of space after the turbo (piping and manifold, etc.) is pressurized to 5psi, wouldnt that be the same amount of air no matter what? whether it be charged with a small turbo or a big turbo?

alen
03-21-2006, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by mike-2ptzero
I also bet he is using things to work around the software, things like larger maf to work with the larger injectors but even that isn't 100% since load readings get thrown off. One thing to remember is that BOOST doesn't equal air flow so when you run a larger turbo at the same boost as a K03 the air flow is much higher.


The guy with the T04 would also run much better if the car was tuned for that turbo.

i would agree with that. i just wrote what i heard when i asked him what program he ran with it. i don't agree that a k04 chip will give you the full potential for the t04.

onemoremile
03-21-2006, 11:10 AM
4th post:
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=2508860

Radeon:
"Well I decided against going with the custom tune, mainly because its $1000 dollars to get a proper tune. I talked to Mike @ TyrolSport and he said that on his GT28R turbo hes running the K04 C16 software which is good for like 280whp and its cherry so i think i might do that because its relatively inexpensive."


even though the guys at TyrolSport have proven to know their sh*t I still wouldn't play around with software for a different turbo. seems like a bad day waiting to happen. when will it blow and where will it blow? middle of the freeway, in traffic, taking the kiddies to daycare...

AudiA4_20T
03-21-2006, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by TomRitt18944
^^bingo, wait until u have the programming and fueling

Ha seems like ud be the one that knows the most about it! haha BOOOOOMMMM!

AudiA4_20T
03-21-2006, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by onemoremile
4th post:
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=2508860

Radeon:
"Well I decided against going with the custom tune, mainly because its $1000 dollars to get a proper tune. I talked to Mike @ TyrolSport and he said that on his GT28R turbo hes running the K04 C16 software which is good for like 280whp and its cherry so i think i might do that because its relatively inexpensive."


even though the guys at TyrolSport have proven to know their sh*t I still wouldn't play around with software for a different turbo. seems like a bad day waiting to happen. when will it blow and where will it blow? middle of the freeway, in traffic, taking the kiddies to daycare...

Ok yea that may be true for GT turbo setups because there are a few files out there BUT, what about like a T3/T4 setup? a Standalone would be key but a lot of people look for a cheaper route then $1000 for a good tune. Not fighting with u just taking the side of a person looking for a cheaper route

mike-2ptzero
03-21-2006, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by AudiA4_18T
Ok yea that may be true for GT turbo setups because there are a few files out there BUT, what about like a T3/T4 setup? a Standalone would be key but a lot of people look for a cheaper route then $1000 for a good tune. Not fighting with u just taking the side of a person looking for a cheaper route

A chip for a GT wouldn't be as bad with a T3/T4 then using a K03/K04 chip.

onemoremile
03-21-2006, 12:27 PM
i'm all about keeping costs down but cheaping out now only to have to add a replacement engine and proper software down the line is false economics.

if you can't afford to do it right the first time you won't be able to afford to fix your mistakes. that is one adage that has been proven time and time again.

mike-2ptzero
03-21-2006, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by onemoremile
i'm all about keeping costs down but cheaping out now only to have to add a replacement engine and proper software down the line is false economics.

if you can't afford to do it right the first time you won't be able to afford to fix your mistakes. that is one adage that has been proven time and time again.

Exactly, just like buying a $49 maf for another car instead of buying the correct one for $200. When it has to do with fueling then you dont want to cut corners.

SeanF
03-21-2006, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by SeanF
while ive always known this to be true, ive never physically understood it...

if the volume of space after the turbo (piping and manifold, etc.) is pressurized to 5psi, wouldnt that be the same amount of air no matter what? whether it be charged with a small turbo or a big turbo?

mike?

like i said, i KNOW your right, i just want to know the physics behind it....

ModifiedA4
03-21-2006, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by SeanF
while ive always known this to be true, ive never physically understood it...

if the volume of space after the turbo (piping and manifold, etc.) is pressurized to 5psi, wouldnt that be the same amount of air no matter what? whether it be charged with a small turbo or a big turbo?

boost is a side effect of moving a high amount of air molecules through the intake. boost is linked to temperature, so you can get higher boost simply by increasing the temperature of the air...all the while the number of molecules of air remains the same.

a larger turbo can pressurize the intake tract the the same pressure with cooler air => more air molecules.

this is why 15psi on a small turbo doesnt equal 15psi on a large turbo in terms of the amount of air(molecules) entering the engine.

add on top of this, the fact that higher intake temps mean more timing retard and you can see why a larger turbo at 15psi flows more air, and the setup will have more timing advance and makes more power than a small turbo.

SeanF
03-21-2006, 01:22 PM
TEMPERATURE! i knew it was somewhere... air density...

AudiA4_20T
03-21-2006, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by onemoremile
i'm all about keeping costs down but cheaping out now only to have to add a replacement engine and proper software down the line is false economics.

if you can't afford to do it right the first time you won't be able to afford to fix your mistakes. that is one adage that has been proven time and time again.

I agree, and if you have the money for everything else, you might as well have enough for the tune... Just saying tuning sux and I dont have money as it is, wish there was a way for a cheaper tune. But Im going to make sure its done right when I do it

onemoremile
03-21-2006, 09:31 PM
the incremental stuff would be the supporting mods like intercooler, exhaust, clutch, brakes, suspension, and decent tires.

unfortunately, the only way to do the turbo system right is to spend a lot of money in a short period of time.

MR VTEC
03-29-2006, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by onemoremile
4th post:
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=2508860

Radeon:
"Well I decided against going with the custom tune, mainly because its $1000 dollars to get a proper tune. I talked to Mike @ TyrolSport and he said that on his GT28R turbo hes running the K04 C16 software which is good for like 280whp and its cherry so i think i might do that because its relatively inexpensive."


even though the guys at TyrolSport have proven to know their sh*t I still wouldn't play around with software for a different turbo. seems like a bad day waiting to happen. when will it blow and where will it blow? middle of the freeway, in traffic, taking the kiddies to daycare...
Visit that post again... [:D]
They had misinformation.
Wrong car, wrong program, etc...