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tontod
03-17-2006, 08:36 PM
Newbie question, but here goes:

I got the H-Sport front and rear sway bars installed earlier today. I made a fast turn, and felt some oversteer with the rear end sliding out just a bit. I guess this is normal? These sway bars will enable me to take corners faster? I got it set on the stiffer setting (the rear bar).

audisnapr
03-17-2006, 08:42 PM
the rear is a bit light already, setting the rear to stiff might be a bit much on the sedan - you need to soften it up a bit - try the middle setting and see how that works for you. I have mine my rear sway set to the middle and I have a wagon, so a bit more weight in the rear and no oversteer

tontod
03-17-2006, 08:45 PM
Actually, the rear just has 2 settings. Guess I'll change to the softer setting.

Devious27t
03-17-2006, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by tontod
Actually, the rear just has 2 settings. Guess I'll change to the softer setting.

the softer setting will leave the car feeling very balanced. the stiff setting is if you hate your droplinks and like oversteer.

ExpLlclT
03-17-2006, 11:53 PM
lol thats the point its fun driving

way better than understeer IMO but have fun with them i want them so bad how is the body roll ? reduced ? a lot noticeable or great ?

vitaliko
03-18-2006, 12:54 AM
this with audis is that they put engine as far toward the front as possible so that there's more room for the passangers. This makes them noseheavy a rearswaybar should balance things out somewhat imo.

tontod
03-18-2006, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by ExpLlclT
lol thats the point its fun driving

way better than understeer IMO but have fun with them i want them so bad how is the body roll ? reduced ? a lot noticeable or great ?

It feels great, when I made that fast turn and felt oversteer, body roll was much reduced.

drlandry00
03-18-2006, 08:10 AM
where did ya get them?

audispeed
03-18-2006, 08:27 AM
sway bars were the best money i spent on my car, hands down (while the s/c was fun too :) ) i would recomend sway bars as a first mod.

tontod
03-18-2006, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by drlandry00
where did ya get them?

I bought them from tirerack, with shipping it came out to $503. I recommend it, makes for more fun driving.

onemoremile
03-18-2006, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by ExpLlclT
lol thats the point its fun driving

how is the body roll ? reduced ? a lot noticeable or great ?

not sliding off the road backwards is also the point of fun driving...

body roll is greatly reduced. i've tracked the car with the H-sports both on coilovers and on stock sport suspension with S4 struts (probably the same as A4 sport struts) and it was excellent both ways. i set the rear on soft and wouldn't change it for anything but autocross events. it is perfectly neutral as is.

this braking pic shows you how soft the sport springs are. they won't control body roll on their own. this is threshold braking on street tires.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/gingermanbrakingforturn1.jpg

these next two are on street tires and my old A4sport/S4 strut winter setup. i would estimate that the body roll is less than half what it would be without the bars. in the first pic is at the lateral limit of the tires. body roll with track tires and coilovers is about the same, maybe less.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/gingermandecreasingradiusdoubleapex.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/gingermandoubleapex.jpg

it is worth noting that the bars will help much more in transitional movements (slalom) than in steady state cornering. the car feels like a sports car with them on and is like driving a waterbed with them off.

it is also worth noting that i post these pics at least once every two weeks. if you searched before posting you would have come across them several times. [az]

offroader1006
03-18-2006, 08:11 PM
better than the regular parkin lot pics[:D]

onemoremile
03-18-2006, 08:27 PM
more fun too. although rockin the track setup at KK isn't all bad...
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/onemoremile/IMG_0668.jpg

aberke
03-19-2006, 09:52 AM
i dont mean to thread jack, but has anyone ever replaced their rear plastic sway bar links? i accidentally bought one from ecs and dont want to pay the 20% restocking fee and shipping, so im going to buy the other one and replace them with the upgraded all metal versions

onemoremile
03-21-2006, 11:28 AM
replacing the plastic links is just a good idea. i tried more than once to loosen my rear links to set the bar on stiff only to find them frozen in place. one of these days i'll have to cut them off and replace them just like you.

jjspierx
03-21-2006, 11:42 AM
tontod - its way to general to say that your H-sport sways will allow you take corners faster. That isn't really true. It will make your car more responsive, and allow you to make great transitions, but it won't really allow you to corner faster. In general, the softer your suspension is, the more grip you have, although you sacrifice response. In a slalom, you won't quick response to be able to change direction quickly, so its worth it to sacrifice overall grip. But even that is too general, more body roll causes a change in suspension geometry which causes less conact patch on the road from your tires, so in essence stiffer sway bars can give you more grip in that respect. Basically, everything is a compromise. I'm going to shutup now

onemoremile
03-21-2006, 11:49 AM
traction is a function of weight and friction. doubling the weight does not, however, double the traction. so while anti-roll bars decrease the weight on the outside tire and share it with the inside, they do not always see a net loss of cornering traction. the only thing that is guaranteed to increase lateral grip is stickier tires.

jjspierx is absolutely correct when he says (paraphrasing) that the bars won't always give you higher skidpad numbers but they can do wonders for a slalom. if you are talking about a road course then you usually see a decrease in lap times with properly set up bars. of course, the stiffer the suspension the less bar is require because the suspension does a better job of countering roll on it's own. that is why i started by posting that threshold braking pic. softly sprung street cars really benefit quite a bit from a well engineered set of bars. even if they did lower the absolute limit just a touch it hardly matters on the street. anyone that is pushing max cornering loads on the street deserves a run through the ditch. there are just too many variables to let it all hang out like that.

either way, they do wonders for the feel and response of the car. they also do wonders for emergency maneuvers like an emergency lane change.

jjspierx
03-21-2006, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by onemoremile
traction is a function of weight and friction. doubling the weight does not, however, double the traction. so while anti-roll bars decrease the weight on the outside tire and share it with the inside, they do not always see a net loss of cornering traction.

Yep, coefficient of friction. More weight will increase traction to a point, but the problem is more weight pushing down on a tire, is also more weight that is shifting laterally under cornering. Eventually centripetal force overpowers the coefficient of friction causing the car to start sliding. With a softer suspension setup it takes longer for your car to reach the coeffcient of friction because weight transfer occurs more slowly.


even if they did lower the absolute limit just a touch it hardly matters on the street. anyone that is pushing max cornering loads on the street deserves a run through the ditch. there are just too many variables to let it all hang out like that.

Word to that.

Devious27t
03-21-2006, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by onemoremile
replacing the plastic links is just a good idea. i tried more than once to loosen my rear links to set the bar on stiff only to find them frozen in place. one of these days i'll have to cut them off and replace them just like you.

you can replace the front links with some drop links from a subaru that are made by Perrin believe, they are virtually the same size and shape as the OEM pieces from the A4. The odd thing is they are the rear drop links for the subie. search on audiworld for more info as a few have done it there. i havent done extensive research but it seems as though the joints are much more rigid in the Perrin links then in the OEM pieces. they are cheap too i think around 120 bucks or something like that and i have used a great deal of their stuff building subarus for friends, they make great stuff.