Engine swap options for 2008 B7 3.2l? Perhaps a 2.7T swap?

[robthechemist]

Hello all! So my 2008 A4 3.2l is dead in the water. Timing chain went out and ran off time a bit too long it seems. I originally wanted to swap the engine for another 3.2l, but now I feel like I'm just going to run into this ridiculous timing chain set up failure again.

So a few questions for you super experienced folks:

1. Is the 3.2l engine considered unreliable enough that I should steer clear of doing a direct replacement?
2. Other engine options that will drop in easily. I am fairly mechanically inclined, but on much older cars, so I would rather not deal with having to re-weld any new frame mounts.
3. So far in my searches it seems the audizine community is ready to fellate the 2.7t biturbo engine [>_<]. It is an incredible engine, but I do not want to go through the hassle if it has similar reliability issues. Will my current automatic tiptronic transmission bolt up? spacer plate maybe?

Essentially I'm looking for advice. Right now, I'm leaning toward the 2.7T swap for the fun of it, but very much taking all ideas into consideration! Thank you in advance.

Yes I'm an actual chemist btw, happy to talk science anytime! Just finished a T5 swap on my 66' mustang. But this seems like a much more difficult endeavor.

Robert

[phantommenance]

I would. U have a good starting platform. Only i would go single turbo instead of keeping the twins.

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[ChanceA4Parks]

I have a 2008 A4 that had an 2.0t originally and I did the 2.7t swap for the fun of it (2.0t was still good). Motor mounts and manual transmission both mounted right up to the 2.7t. Trans spacer was needed. It was a educational experience for me and would I do it again? At this point......YES. I cant even begin to tell you how many hours I have in mine but you could do a straight swap fairly quickly. There's great info on this site. Without it, I would have never been able to do it. I had 0 experience with mechanics when I started this build. I have been building interiors and designing the audio/electrical systems in cars for 20 years. The electronics weren't bad at all, especially after I learned how to read the wiring schematics from alldatadyi. 155571

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[robthechemist]

I would. U have a good starting platform. Only i would go single turbo instead of keeping the twins.

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Ah, why go single turbo? From what I see there are some heat issues, but overall the twin turbo is kinda the point of that engine lol

[Quattro 4 Life]

The 3.0T is also another option but is less documented/supported.

How many miles were on the engine before it went? Generally speaking the 3.2 engines are pretty stout and you might be able to find one with reasonable mileage.

[robthechemist]

I have a 2008 A4 that had an 2.0t originally and I did the 2.7t swap for the fun of it (2.0t was still good). Motor mounts and manual transmission both mounted right up to the 2.7t. Trans spacer was needed. It was a educational experience for me and would I do it again? At this point......YES. I cant even begin to tell you how many hours I have in mine but you could do a straight swap fairly quickly. There's great info on this site. Without it, I would have never been able to do it. I had 0 experience with mechanics when I started this build. I have been building interiors and designing the audio/electrical systems in cars for 20 years. The electronics weren't bad at all, especially after I learned how to read the wiring schematics from alldatadyi. 155571

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Wow! I'm so glad you replied. My B7 currently has an automatic, I cant imagine the bolts are in a different location so the spacer may work the same for me. I considered swapping to the 6 speed, but if my current automatic can handle it, I think I'll keep her until she runs out and then move to the manual. I'm trying to make myself a complete parts list, any help would be greatly appreciated. As of right now it seems like the 2.7t is the way to go. Have you gotten her running? How is the difference?

[robthechemist]

The 3.0T is also another option but is less documented/supported.

How many miles were on the engine before it went? Generally speaking the 3.2 engines are pretty stout and you might be able to find one with reasonable mileage.

I wanna say about 120K. I would have to go out to my garage and double check, she's been parked in there for over a year. Yea I thought they were pretty strong, but this timing chain design is terrible. I was thinking of finding a low mileage 3.2, however I don't want to pull the engine inevitably to do the timing chain again. Apparently its a common failure.

[Quattro 4 Life]

I wanna say about 120K. I would have to go out to my garage and double check, she's been parked in there for over a year. Yea I thought they were pretty strong, but this timing chain design is terrible. I was thinking of finding a low mileage 3.2, however I don't want to pull the engine inevitably to do the timing chain again. Apparently its a common failure.

It certainly is on the 4.2 but I’ve seen people run 3.2s well beyond that with no chain issues (sitting at 130k myself). At minimum the upper tensioners might need some attention but not as catastrophic as the 4.2s.

[robthechemist]

Ah, very interesting. The 3.2 would definitely be the easiest (no wiring changes). However after doing all this research, I almost want to do the 2.7. Maybe someone has already done a comparison of the two. I'm just thinking if I'm gonna go through all this trouble, why not "upgrade" in terms of potential power and maintenance, while I'm at it. Tough call as of yet. Not to mention I can get a 2.7 for about half the cost of a 3.2. grrr

[Nollywood]

Retaining tip will make the swap more complex.

The older 2.7T ECU may not communicate with the newer B7 TCU.

Spacer plate is only required if a 2.7T DM flywheel is used. I always discard the spacer in all my swaps.

[robthechemist]

Retaining tip will make the swap more complex.

The older 2.7T ECU may not communicate with the newer B7 TCU.

Spacer plate is only required if a 2.7T DM flywheel is used. I always discard the spacer in all my swaps.

Ah okay that's something to consider. From what I've read so far trying to use the B7 ECU is far too difficult than just modifying the 2.7 ECU so sounds like I may lose tiptronic. Although as long as that doesn't throw an error code, I think I can survive without the paddle shifters. ;-)

[robthechemist]

Have you done this particular swap? 2.7 to B7?

[oVeRdOsE]

The 3.0T is also another option but is less documented/supported.

How many miles were on the engine before it went? Generally speaking the 3.2 engines are pretty stout and you might be able to find one with reasonable mileage.

indeed, starting with a 3.2 base is way easier tho.

450hp with a simple tune, is crazy.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1754/28006394727_40dc938d1b_c_d.jpg

[robthechemist]

indeed, starting with a 3.2 base is way easier tho.

450hp with a simple tune, is crazy.

WOW! That's pretty. Sorry, which engine were you referring to? Did you mean a simple tune on the 3.2 gave you 450hp? Or were you saying swapping in the 3.0T and a simple tune yielded 450hp? If that's the case for the 3.2 then I'm definitely going that route. Would be a bit cautious going the 3.0T route just because I haven't seen much of any posts on that swap, unless you've done it here?

[robthechemist]

Overdose,
You must be referring to the 3.0T, I wonder how hard it would be to swap in.

[chackalucka]

If you do decide to go 2.7 defs do single turbo, I dont know about what the other top mount guys get but my air intake temps are about 20 degrees c colder. With my side mount set up. But mine is all custom. (Mine is the side mount)

And to get 450hp from the 2.7 will take a bit of work. 155691155692

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[marakalastic]

It certainly is on the 4.2 but I’ve seen people run 3.2s well beyond that with no chain issues (sitting at 130k myself). At minimum the upper tensioners might need some attention but not as catastrophic as the 4.2s.

sitting at 225k km myself and haven't touched the chain or tensioners! fingers crossed haha.

[robthechemist]

sitting at 225k km myself and haven't touched the chain or tensioners! fingers crossed haha.

I wish I was so lucky. My tensioner gave... and the chain shortly after. OOF. I am beginning to lean toward the 3.0T at this point. So far I'm not sure I can retain traction control and ABS so that would be a negative. Honestly if I'm not able to keep just about every luxury of owning an Audi, perhaps I could live without cruise control! haha, then what's the point of modifying it. So at this point it is between the 3.0T and the 3.2.

[oVeRdOsE]

WOW! That's pretty. Sorry, which engine were you referring to? Did you mean a simple tune on the 3.2 gave you 450hp? Or were you saying swapping in the 3.0T and a simple tune yielded 450hp? If that's the case for the 3.2 then I'm definitely going that route. Would be a bit cautious going the 3.0T route just because I haven't seen much of any posts on that swap, unless you've done it here?

yeah sorry it wanst clear. 3,2 based chassis, and swap a 3.0t. This is bolt-on. even then exhaust is bolt-on.

the swap is not hard at all.

The wiring and ECU management is hard, you need the b8 ecu and key module to make it work.

Its not a cheap swap if you're starting with a 2.0t, about 10k$ , including hardware, coding and stage 2 . (from my calculation since I want this swap)
Starting with a 3.2, its a bit less considering the swap is bolton. But those engine with wiring are going around 2-3k$.... not cheap at all. in the mean time you could find a complete 2.7tt for 600$.

Also, the coding b7-to-b8 is known to only 1 person in north america as I know of. The guy is based in montreal quebec, so shipping the car there it wont be cheap. He might offering facetime help, I dont know. ask axis on this forums, he knows those swap.

[B5A4coastie]

I want the 3.0t in my avant! But I’d be starting with the 2.0t. I’ve thought of buying a 3.2 avant with blown motor just to do the swap. I sent Eurozone the following email, I’ll post his reply below it.

Hi,

I’ve read in Audizine that you guys are on your 4th swap. I’m sure you’ve figured out a lot of bugs by now and was wondering if you have a list of what’s necessary to complete this swap?

From my understanding, starting with a B7 that has a 3.2 is preferred, but what about the 3.0T car? Basically, if you had to do a swap what car would you want for a donor? I assume having the entire car would make everything easier and maybe could help fund the swap with a part out.

The biggest headache sounds like the wiring, do you create a harness from the A4, would it be better to start with the 3.0 harness, or would having another harnesses be preferable?

I’ll add this to the forum post that I was reading, so you don’t have to continually answer the same questions individually.

Thanks

The reply was quick, but didn’t answer much all of my questions, so I never posted this anywhere.

Hey Will,

Starting with a 3.2 is a tad easier and using a 6MT manual also helps since the ecu is 6MT.

You use the 3.0T engine harness that you adapt to make an hybrid.

Cheers,

Chris aka Axis on AZ

[robthechemist]

yeah sorry it wanst clear. 3,2 based chassis, and swap a 3.0t. This is bolt-on. even then exhaust is bolt-on.

the swap is not hard at all.

The wiring and ECU management is hard, you need the b8 ecu and key module to make it work.

Its not a cheap swap if you're starting with a 2.0t, about 10k$ , including hardware, coding and stage 2 . (from my calculation since I want this swap)
Starting with a 3.2, its a bit less considering the swap is bolton. But those engine with wiring are going around 2-3k$.... not cheap at all. in the mean time you could find a complete 2.7tt for 600$.

Also, the coding b7-to-b8 is known to only 1 person in north america as I know of. The guy is based in montreal quebec, so shipping the car there it wont be cheap. He might offering facetime help, I dont know. ask axis on this forums, he knows those swap.


Ah I see. Wow even the exhaust bolts up?! Okay I'm leaning heavy toward the 3.0T swap now. I think I've decided to not go backward with the 2.7T, and move forward. Will be better in the long run. Now the wiring sounds like a bitch. Sounds like I should use the B8 ECU and fit it to the B7 cluster. I messaged Clint about it, hopefully he'll reply. I'm unaware who axis is? I'll do a search. 2-3K would be worth it honestly. The question is can my transmission handle it, and would I retain tiptronic?

[robthechemist]

I want the 3.0t in my avant! But I’d be starting with the 2.0t. I’ve thought of buying a 3.2 avant with blown motor just to do the swap. I sent Eurozone the following email, I’ll post his reply below it.

Hi,

I’ve read in Audizine that you guys are on your 4th swap. I’m sure you’ve figured out a lot of bugs by now and was wondering if you have a list of what’s necessary to complete this swap?

From my understanding, starting with a B7 that has a 3.2 is preferred, but what about the 3.0T car? Basically, if you had to do a swap what car would you want for a donor? I assume having the entire car would make everything easier and maybe could help fund the swap with a part out.

The biggest headache sounds like the wiring, do you create a harness from the A4, would it be better to start with the 3.0 harness, or would having another harnesses be preferable?

I’ll add this to the forum post that I was reading, so you don’t have to continually answer the same questions individually.

Thanks

The reply was quick, but didn’t answer much all of my questions, so I never posted this anywhere.

Hey Will,

Starting with a 3.2 is a tad easier and using a 6MT manual also helps since the ecu is 6MT.

You use the 3.0T engine harness that you adapt to make an hybrid.

Cheers,

Chris aka Axis on AZ

Ah well I'm glad you asked. Sounds like swapping to the 6MT is the way to go along with this? I wonder how difficult the wiring would be. I feel like they are on the same system so I can't imagine its that crazy to adapt. Perhaps you and I will both find the answers we require soon enough!

[B5A4coastie]

Ah well I'm glad you asked. Sounds like swapping to the 6MT is the way to go along with this? I wonder how difficult the wiring would be. I feel like they are on the same system so I can't imagine its that crazy to adapt. Perhaps you and I will both find the answers we require soon enough!

I’m not sure where he was getting the 6MT from, unless that’s what’s being sold in Canada. Most of the 3.0Ts that I’ve seen are DSG, with only a few exceptions.

I think a 6MT 3.0T would be awesome though.

[robthechemist]

I’m not sure where he was getting the 6MT from, unless that’s what’s being sold in Canada. Most of the 3.0Ts that I’ve seen are DSG, with only a few exceptions.

I think a 6MT 3.0T would be awesome though.

Perhaps he is referencing the ECU adaptation work they have already done meaning they started with a MT ECU. IDK... Yes a Manual would be awesome. Tough call. But I enjoy my audi for the comfort. I have my 66 mustang for when I wanna shift lol. I need to find some more information on the wiring adaptation possibility, because I really want to do this swap now.

[All_Black_A4]

I’m not sure where he was getting the 6MT from, unless that’s what’s being sold in Canada. Most of the 3.0Ts that I’ve seen are DSG, with only a few exceptions.

I think a 6MT 3.0T would be awesome though.

To prove they do exist [;)]

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/edmonton/2013-audi-s4-3-0t-6sp-man-qtro-sdn/1472532127

Just one chosen at random.

[robthechemist]

To prove they do exist [;)]

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/edmonton/2013-audi-s4-3-0t-6sp-man-qtro-sdn/1472532127

Just one chosen at random.

Looks like we have the exact same care, mine being 2008. black on black baby

[Ashtonts]

indeed, starting with a 3.2 base is way easier tho.

450hp with a simple tune, is crazy.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1754/28006394727_40dc938d1b_c_d.jpg
Stage 1 on the 3.0T is 350 whp/335 wtq. It’s a lot of fun, but it won’t blow your doors off. The 2.7TT is a much better option if you want to build big power. The 3.0T is good if you want to slap 2 pulleys on there, tune, and call it a day at 400whp with a reliable motor to boot. Just depends on what you’re after.


I’m not sure where he was getting the 6MT from, unless that’s what’s being sold in Canada. Most of the 3.0Ts that I’ve seen are DSG, with only a few exceptions.

I think a 6MT 3.0T would be awesome though.

Can confirm, it’s awesome [:D]

[robthechemist]

Stage 1 on the 3.0T is 350 whp/335 wtq. It’s a lot of fun, but it won’t blow your doors off. The 2.7TT is a much better option if you want to build big power. The 3.0T is good if you want to slap 2 pulleys on there, tune, and call it a day at 400whp with a reliable motor to boot. Just depends on what you’re after.



Can confirm, it’s awesome [:D]

Ha definitely awesome I agree! I'm not incredibly interested in making 500 plus insane HP with the 2.7T and having to tune and deal with turbo heat all the time. Reliable and 400 hp is much more desirable for me. As soon as I can get a good handle on the electronics side of things and whether or not people have been able to retain most all functions, I'll pull the trigger. I have to figure out if my current trans will handle the power, and if tiptronic will even work with the B8 harness?