2020 Challenger Hellcat vs A6 Stage II

[saleen8927]

I’m trying to figure out how a 717hp 2020 Challenger Hellcat that has a similar weight to an A6 has a 0-60 time of 3.7 and a 1/4 mile time of 11.8 (according to both C&D and MT). I have seen people on here get similar times in a stage 2 A6, and Car and Driver posts identical times for the S6, with 450hp. I’m not discounting the awd advantage, but with a 260+hp difference, what’s the story?


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[gk1]

I’m trying to figure out how a 717hp 2020 Challenger Hellcat that has a similar weight to an A6 has a 0-60 time of 3.7 and a 1/4 mile time of 11.8 (according to both C&D and MT). I have seen people on here get similar times in a stage 2 A6, and Car and Driver posts identical times for the S6, with 450hp. I’m not discounting the awd advantage, but with a 260+hp difference, what’s the story?


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Traction is usually the reason. Assuming they use the street tires that come with the car.
I had a quicker ET than a '19 ZL1 with my Stage 1(91) S6. And that thing comes in at 650HP/650TQ and weighs about 500 lbs less.
The Jeep Trackhawk has a smidge less power than the Hellcat but still drops the 0-60 by 0.2s even with it's higher weight but AWD. (1/4 mile probably worse due to aero though.)
So imagine an AWD Hellcat...maybe 0-60 in 3.2 1/4 in 11.1. Is that more in line with your expectations?

[mintytoo]

All about the AWD and traction. Probably would be faster with slicks.

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[saleen8927]

Traction is usually the reason. Assuming they use the street tires that come with the car.
I had a quicker ET than a '19 ZL1 with my Stage 1(91) S6. And that thing comes in at 650HP/650TQ and weighs about 500 lbs less.
The Jeep Trackhawk has a smidge less power than the Hellcat but still drops the 0-60 by 0.2s even with it's higher weight but AWD. (1/4 mile probably worse due to aero though.)
So imagine an AWD Hellcat...maybe 0-60 in 3.2 1/4 in 11.1. Is that more in line with your expectations?

Yes, I guess it isn’t so much that I’m surprised how “slow” the Hellcat is, but how fast the S6/A6 is. I would bet the Hellcat feels faster, being such a rough, violent, loud experience. I did a hotlap in a charger hellcat at Barrett-Jackson and it had traction for maybe 10% of the ride - the rest was an insane continuous drift.



All about the AWD and traction. Probably would be faster with slicks.

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No doubt - I have heard they’re running 10s with slicks on a good day.



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[PSUGOLD]

It's all traction. I was at the track and a hellcat ran a 1/4 mile of 12.8 seconds...but had a trap speed of over 125mph. Horrible off the line, but once it gripped, wow.

[Audisthesia]

Yep, watched a similar race between an S6 and a GT500... 250HP difference... GT500 lost. 700HP to 2 wheels.

[saleen8927]

I’d be curious to see some of the other stats - 60-100, etc. I would guess the difference is greater at those speeds.


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[Dirt]

I’m trying to figure out how a 717hp 2020 Challenger Hellcat that has a similar weight to an A6 has a 0-60 time of 3.7 and a 1/4 mile time of 11.8 (according to both C&D and MT). I have seen people on here get similar times in a stage 2 A6, and Car and Driver posts identical times for the S6, with 450hp. I’m not discounting the awd advantage, but with a 260+hp difference, what’s the story?


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A stock S6 isn't running the quarter in 11.8. More like 12.2 - 12.4.


And a stock Hellcat Challenger is going to run low 11's or high 10's.


The numbers you're using for comparison aren't accurate.

[infinitereality]

I wonder why they got high 11s on the 2020 Challenger Hellcat, but supposedly the 2020 Charger Hellcat is high 10s off the showroom floor? Maybe the 11" wide wheels that come with it since it'll be only available in widebody?

[WatchMeSpend]

I wonder why they got high 11s on the 2020 Challenger Hellcat, but supposedly the 2020 Charger Hellcat is high 10s off the showroom floor? Maybe the 11" wide wheels that come with it since it'll be only available in widebody?

Last time I was at the track, all the fancy fast Dodges and Chryslers didn't run faster than 11:90 Redeyes, Hellcats, you name it. Why? Like the guy on microphone in the tower said over the PA system. "Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you know how to drive it" There was a guy who had an S6 that looked stock and didn't seem to engage the launch control (maybe doesn't know how) who ran a few 12.50s and then ran an 11:97, still with no launch control, so I guess he had software upgrades at least.

[97B518TQM]

Yes, I guess it isn’t so much that I’m surprised how “slow” the Hellcat is, but how fast the S6/A6 is. I would bet the Hellcat feels faster, being such a rough, violent, loud experience. I did a hotlap in a charger hellcat at Barrett-Jackson and it had traction for maybe 10% of the ride - the rest was an insane continuous drift.


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I wouldn't say it's slow given it's rwd and I wouldn't say the S6 is that fast considering the size of engine and two turbos it has under the hood. A car that is truly surprisingly fast to me is something like the GTR, stock. Heavy, not that much more power stock (especially the older ones) and still does 0-60 in about 3sec flat and close to 11 flat in the 1/4 mile. It all comes down to traction, gearing, gear shifting. GM is still lacking in most of these areas and mainly focus on high HP numbers.

And I wouldn't consider the A6 fast in any shape or form so the "A6/S6" grouping is not very appropriate. Totally different animals.

[infinitereality]

I wouldn't say it's slow given it's rwd and I wouldn't say the S6 is that fast considering the size of engine and two turbos it has under the hood. A car that is truly surprisingly fast to me is something like the GTR, stock. Heavy, not that much more power stock (especially the older ones) and still does 0-60 in about 3sec flat and close to 11 flat in the 1/4 mile. It all comes down to traction, gearing, gear shifting. GM is still lacking in most of these areas and mainly focus on high HP numbers.

And I wouldn't consider the A6 fast in any shape or form so the "A6/S6" grouping is not very appropriate. Totally different animals.


Hellcat is a Dodge, not GM, lol. [facepalm] Same comment still applies though!

[saleen8927]

I wouldn't say it's slow given it's rwd and I wouldn't say the S6 is that fast considering the size of engine and two turbos it has under the hood. A car that is truly surprisingly fast to me is something like the GTR, stock. Heavy, not that much more power stock (especially the older ones) and still does 0-60 in about 3sec flat and close to 11 flat in the 1/4 mile. It all comes down to traction, gearing, gear shifting. GM is still lacking in most of these areas and mainly focus on high HP numbers.

I would consider the S6 fast, even relative to what it has under the hood. If you’re referring to the fact that it should have more power, yes, and we see that from what it gains with a simple tune, but the track numbers it puts down are still impressive IMO.


And I wouldn't consider the A6 fast in any shape or form so the "A6/S6" grouping is not very appropriate. Totally different animals.

I was referring to a tuned A6, which is as quick or quicker than a stock S6.


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[Nick Fury]

...And I wouldn't consider the A6 fast in any shape or form...

Of course, you DO mean in stock "form".

[jsmonet]

never rely on mag racing.

put appropriately sticky rubber on the hellcat and/or a little vht, play with tire pressure a tiny bit, or race from a roll, and it gets very ugly. with the new widebody option out and the fact that you can change launch control revs on the fly -without- any modifications, getting froggy with these cars becomes a bad decision real quick.

[yeuchau]

I would consider the S6 fast, even relative to what it has under the hood. If you’re referring to the fact that it should have more power, yes, and we see that from what it gains with a simple tune, but the track numbers it puts down are still impressive IMO.



I was referring to a tuned A6, which is as quick or quicker than a stock S6.


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tuned A6 can be ask quick as tuned S6 (except stage 3)

[scott99c2]

never rely on mag racing.

put appropriately sticky rubber on the hellcat and/or a little vht, play with tire pressure a tiny bit, or race from a roll, and it gets very ugly. with the new widebody option out and the fact that you can change launch control revs on the fly -without- any modifications, getting froggy with these cars becomes a bad decision real quick.

This. Don’t race for pinks on a roll :)

[97B518TQM]

Hellcat is a Dodge, not GM, lol. [facepalm] Same comment still applies though!

I know but I always group them under the ‘GM’ umbrella because to me they are all the same wooden boxes with a big inefficient engines.


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[97B518TQM]

tuned A6 can be ask quick as tuned S6 (except stage 3)

Lol. No, it’s not. I’ve had a quite extensively build B8 S4. I also went through all the stages with my S6. My stock S6 was as fast as my stage 2 S4. As soon as I went stage 1 with the S6 it was game over for the S4. With some race gas and very extreme pulley ratios it is probably possible to get it close but that wouldn’t be just simple tuned vs tuned comparison. With stage 2 and up the S6 is in a completely different league.


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[Dirt]

tuned A6 can be ask quick as tuned S6 (except stage 3)

I agree with ^^^^^^. They’re not. My Stage 1 S4 ran the same time as my stock S6. Just a piggyback on the S6 made it almost a half second quicker in the quarter mile.

[Hofahome]

tuned A6 can be ask quick as tuned S6 (except stage 3)

Well considering p3u is in the 10’s on his A6 with stock blower I’d be careful even comparing to stage 3.
The S6 has more headroom for power being 4L TT but it has not been fully realized yet since tuners have moved on to other platforms


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[Shane Horning]

Mabe you had one of the earlier tunes for your s4? Anymore a stage 2+ a6 or s4 is fairly easy to get into the 10s with race file. Not many full weight stock turbo s6 run 10s
Lol. No, it’s not. I’ve had a quite extensively build B8 S4. I also went through all the stages with my S6. My stock S6 was as fast as my stage 2 S4. As soon as I went stage 1 with the S6 it was game over for the S4. With some race gas and very extreme pulley ratios it is probably possible to get it close but that wouldn’t be just simple tuned vs tuned comparison. With stage 2 and up the S6 is in a completely different league.


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[TechSavvy]

Everyone keeps stating tuned A6 vs stock S6..... the (incorrect) statement made was that a tuned A6 was as quick as a tuned S6.....

[97B518TQM]

Well considering p3u is in the 10’s on his A6 with stock blower I’d be careful even comparing to stage 3.
The S6 has more headroom for power being 4L TT but it has not been fully realized yet since tuners have moved on to other platforms


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I haven’t seen many 3.0T motors with anywhere near 500awhp and definitely none with 550tq. I don’t see a lot of 3.0Ts in the 10s. I can count them on one hand. And that is with race fuel indeed, as you stated. There is just no room for comparison. I was in denial when I had my S4 and thought I don’t need to make the jump to the 4.0tt to make a lot of power. After pushing it over and over trying to squeeze out whatever I can with custom dyno tunes I got my S6, flashed it with a stage 1 tune and it was walking my S4. Both on just 91 gas of course. After stage 1 it was a different world and can never be compared to the 3.0t.

This reminds me of the old B5 days when A4 guys with the 1.8Ts were getting to 350awhp with big turbos, built heads and who knows what else under the hood were trying to convince themselves they have an equivalent car to a B5 S4, all while the b5 S4 was getting to that power level with a simple flash for $499.


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[Shane Horning]

These runs are from stage 2+ a6, full weight street tires running e40. A stage 2 s6 on 104 will run similar times.
Everyone keeps stating tuned A6 vs stock S6..... the (incorrect) statement made was that a tuned A6 was as quick as a tuned S6.....147560147561147562147563