K04r Build

[Dpartinvr4]

my 08 A4 at 170k miles has developed low compression on cyl. 4. it's burned oil since i got it stock at 145k I did a full timing service and water pump, but it was only a matter of time before it needed rebuilt.

In it's current trim, it's running the luft technic intake,3" catless downpipe, 2.5" stainless exhaust, aem water meth, s3 injectors, billet HPFP internals, and exhaust scavenged PCV, JHM lightweight flywheel and RS4 clutch.

The plan with the build is power and tourqe under the curve, this is my daily/cruise on the weekends car and in its current form it was a blast, so it's only going to get better from here. I went with the higher compression pistons to add more torque and MPG's 300whp is the plan, but like I said i'm more concerned with the power under the curve, than the peak number.

I called Vast tuning and they'll be doing the custom tune on the car once it's back together. "planned completion of build end of October 2019"
the build sheet goes as follows:
Intake-
Luft Technic intake -ECS
Luft Technic Front mount intercooler -ECS
AEM staged water meth 500ml/min nozzle injected in a throttle body spacer
PCV run to a catch can then out an exhaust scavenger "no reintroduction to intake"
Exhaust-
JHM K04r
3" catless downpipe
2.5" stainless exhasut
Fuel-
JHM billet HPFP internals
Rs4 fuel controller
Dw300 pump
S3 injectors
Engine-
Integrated Engineering H beam rods
calico coated rod bearings
JE 83.5mm 10.98:1 forged pistons
JHM lightweight flywheel and RS4 clutch
Head-
Golf R intake cam
Golf R exhaust cam
3 angle valve job


I may try doing a video series of the build, if not Ii'll at least take as many photos as possible, I'll keep this thread updated as I go. I probably won't do much with the disassembly as there's plenty of how to videos out there, but I'll do what i can with the reassembly documentation.

I'll get the measurements on the Golf R cams vs. the stock ones as i know it's a hot topic. from my research the HPFP lobe is bigger, the lift is the same but there's more duration. at worst they're the same as stock and I'm just replacing 170k cams with new ones.

Golf R cam specs

Exhaust 06F109102F
Lift: .234"
Duration: 267° @ .05"

Intake 06F109101K
Lift: .250"
Duration: 260° @.05"
Hpfp lift: .263"


A4 stock cam specs

Exhaust 06F109102E
Lift: .234"
Duration: 263° @ .05"


Intake 06F101B140707
Lift: .250"
Duration: 260° @ .05"
Hpfp lift: .153"

[EvolutionArmory]

Before you install that JHM turbo, make sure the wastegate is set to crack at 10psi or else you won’t spool til 4K and won’t make any power. Ask me how I know🤣🤣🤣

You might want to consider dropping your target compression ratio closer to 10.0:1 than 11:0. Might run into some timing pull on 93. Probably not with meth though.

[aluthman]

Do the calculations to see what your actual compression ratio is. JE pistons were mislabeled for a long time and I don’t know if they were ever fixed. If not, you could accidentally end up at well over 11:1 which won’t work in your favor.

[EvolutionArmory]

10.5:1 is pushing it with high boost. I’d hate to see what kind of timing pull 11:1 would give.

The stock piston compression ratio is plenty for low end. If you have any hopes of hitting 300WHP on a K04, drop the compression a little, not raise it.

You’ll be on a 100 octane file and meth so it will be easier to hit 300 but you might want to reconsider your piston choice. I wouldn’t go as low as the Golf R pistons go, just something closer to 10.0:1 maybe.

[IronAudi]

If you live in Indiana, hows the E85 out there, its about time we start converting to E85

[Dpartinvr4]

In response to the Wastegate crack pressure, I've had the kit in since January and the car pulls really hard so I don't think it's wrong but I had planned on checking it when I got it pulled out, the turbo blanket is covering everything so I didn't feel like fighting it to check it when the car doesn't act like it's wrong.

The J.E. piston compression issue, I did read quite a bit on that, but it seems like it was only on an initial batch of them that were spec'd for the tsi but using the larger fsi headgasket. I ordered them from integrated engineering which I have a hard time believing would sell misrepresented products, but I plan to spec the chambers and will verify correct numbers when I reassemble.

A quick explanation for the compression ratio choice All things being equal 11:1 will always make more power from a quantity of air/fuel than say 9.5:1"I realize there's static and dynamic compression variables, but we'll get to that".
you make up for the loss of power with the lower compression by adding timing and more boost to get the same amount of power. The Ko4's problem is it becomes a choke point when it can't flow the exhaust/ make anymore useable boost (out of the efficiency range).
So why not up the compression so the car can make the same power as the stock compression lets say (arbitrary numbers for arguments sake) 250hp@ 15psi with 15 degrees of timing, it now makes that same 250hp but at only 10psi and 10 degrees of timing, ( once again arbitrary numbers, real world I expect around a 3%increase in efficiency going from stock to the higher compression) effectively decreasing the amount of flow needed to make a given power. With less timing so the "timing pull" isn't a problem because it wasn't at an advance that needed pulled to begin with. This should let the k04 make more before choking the engine or running out of compressor efficiency.

With the golf R cams longer duration "I'll get proof or disproof of this asap" I can take advantage of the higher compression with a little more overlap down low to broaden the powerband, and the intake cam phasing to decrease it up top to reduce dynamic compression. There's plenty of ,11:1 boosted s2000's that aren't direct injected running around that I'm not overly concerned with crazy knock issues with the water meth and a solid tune.

E85 in Indiana, meijer has the most consistent blend , I had a big turbo caliber SRT4 on E85 and it's cool but I'll never d it again with out a flex fuel option. The mpg's were terrible anymore the 30% loss in mpg isn't reflected in the price difference from 93 and you had to really plan out trips to make sure the corn juice was going to be available then pray it was a good blend when you found it.

Once again I'm by no means an expert but this is what I've pieced together through research and what I want to try with my build. Worst case the car makes exactly the same power but is now bulletproof and everybody gets to say they told me so as I enjoy my car, best case I make more power everywhere and we all learn something and I enjoy my car. :)

[AudiB720TS]

Nice project.

I am interested in your findings on the R cams. Will you have a professional measure them?

[EvolutionArmory]

With the stock compression my K04R shows a little correction factor on straight 93 octane fuel with a GIAC tune. This goes away with a couple gallons of 100 octane mixed in.

I don’t claim to be an expert on tuning but one thing most experts agree on is that a lower compression ratio works more efficiently with high boost than a higher one.

The idea is to have a ratio that won’t kill your car’s ability to make natural torque but be just high enough to not pull timing under boost. Look at the Golf R for example. They make 300 plus HP on a tuned K04 all day where I’m still stuck between 270-280 on pump gas. What’s different? Lower compression and different cams. Maybe a hair less drivetrain loss not being Torsen Quattro.

Having a built motor will allow you to add more timing and sooner without blowing your motor but having a higher compression ratio will make that have a higher chance of knocking. Having meth is going to be great but you should build the car so it runs great on pump gas and even better with meth. Not rely on meth to get it to run right.

I wish you all the luck. It would be great to see a K04R hit over 300 wheel. That last 20-30 WHP is a bitch to get.

What low pressure fuel upgrades do you plan on adding or do you already have?




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[EvolutionArmory]

And as far as the wastegate is concerned, what RPM do you make full boost? My wastegate and about a handful of others got turbos set 4 psi too light.

I used to make peak boost at 4K before I set mine right. Now I’m making full boost at 2800[emoji3]

Before
142077

After setting the wastegate to 9.5 psi
142079

Definitely check it when your motor is out.


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[Dpartinvr4]

Originally I got the water meth just to keep things clean after I decarboned the valves and flaps. Then rerouting the pcv out the exhaust that wasn't really an issue anymore so it was just there to steam clean the chambers and provide some knock prevention. I didn't want to tune to rely on it just incase I ever didn't have it. After 15k miles including a 4k trip around the country in 6 days I can conclusively say I never don't have it so I may as well tune for it, I may use a 70/30 blend when tuning instead of 50/50 just to have the safety net to account for human error when mixing, I'll ask vast what their thoughts are on it when that time comes.

The low pressure pump: when speaking to vast about the build I asked about the lpfp, they said I'll probably be creeping up on the stock pumps limit. So with 170k on it I'm going to drop in a new aeromotive 340lph and call it a day.

[EvolutionArmory]

Your issue won’t be with the pump. It will be with the controller. You need to get rid of that stock controller because even with the RS4 controller, I dip below 4 bar at 5500.

It’s best to get a 340 LPH or higher pump and run at least the RS4 controller or get a Torqbyte PM4.

[derrek]

I was all for the 11:1 CR until I saw you didn't want to run E85, that higher CR is going to hurt you on pump fuel. Sure you can make more with less on the 11:1 but you'll also be hitting the knock limit sooner. So lets use your example for instance "250hp@ 15psi with 15 degrees of timing, it now makes that same 250hp but at only 10psi and 10 degrees of timing" the 11:1 car may only be able to run 10psi and 10 degrees of timing before running into knock well the 9.5:1 car could run 20psi with 20 degrees of timing before knock and make more power. This would be on pump 91/93 if you were on e85 this would be a non issue as you can normally go past MBT without knock in most cases. Meth injection will help but its not going to be nearly as effective a e85. As everyone said above do your own CR measurements, when I was building my old motor I found every manufacturer listed the wrong CR I dont remember exactly what all the other brands where but I know my 9:1 Mahle pistons were really 9.5:1.

For the LPFP you're going to want to keep the stock pump and add an additional pump to be able to utilize your whole gas tank. The stock pump has two outlets, one main outlet, and one smaller outlet that feeds a mechanical pump on the other side of the saddle that flows fuel back to the main pump side. I think there are a few companies that make kits for this now.

[EvolutionArmory]

I was all for the 11:1 CR until I saw you didn't want to run E85, that higher CR is going to hurt you on pump fuel. Sure you can make more with less on the 11:1 but you'll also be hitting the knock limit sooner. So lets use your example for instance "250hp@ 15psi with 15 degrees of timing, it now makes that same 250hp but at only 10psi and 10 degrees of timing" the 11:1 car may only be able to run 10psi and 10 degrees of timing before running into knock well the 9.5:1 car could run 20psi with 20 degrees of timing before knock and make more power. This would be on pump 91/93 if you were on e85 this would be a non issue as you can normally go past MBT without knock in most cases. Meth injection will help but its not going to be nearly as effective a e85. As everyone said above do your own CR measurements, when I was building my old motor I found every manufacturer listed the wrong CR I dont remember exactly what all the other brands where but I know my 9:1 Mahle pistons were really 9.5:1.

For the LPFP you're going to want to keep the stock pump and add an additional pump to be able to utilize your whole gas tank. The stock pump has two outlets, one main outlet, and one smaller outlet that feeds a mechanical pump on the other side of the saddle that flows fuel back to the main pump side. I think there are a few companies that make kits for this now.

Pag Parts has a Walbro 450 in a fully machined basket that also draws from the saddle tank. You can also spec a 550. I’m going to get one next month unless adulting gets in the way. The stock pump and controller is basically useless above normal K04 91/93 power levels.

[EvolutionArmory]

With these 2 things, low pressure fuel issues are basically a non issue now.

http://pagparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=79_108&products_id=742

https://torqbyte.com/products/vag-pm4-high-power-fuel-pump-control-module

Too bad it took 14 years for aftermarket tuners to take care of us.

[Dpartinvr4]

Derrek I agree that will eventually be the limiting factor, and we won't know until it gets tuned, but with the direct injection I'm pretty confident that it will make plenty of power. I'd go E85 if flex fuel was an option, but after real world experience with an e85 only car, I will never have a daily on an E only tune.

[Dpartinvr4]

Evolutionary, that is lower than a stock pump is supposed to be good for?
https://www.jhmotorsports.com/products/pictures/JHM-LPFP/LPFP-Fuel-Pump-Comparison-B7-A4-JHM340.PNG

[EvolutionArmory]

Evolutionary, that is lower than a stock pump is supposed to be good for?
https://www.jhmotorsports.com/products/pictures/JHM-LPFP/LPFP-Fuel-Pump-Comparison-B7-A4-JHM340.PNG

What exactly are you asking me?

[Dpartinvr4]

Do you maybe have more details on how old your pump was? according to that log the stock controller with a 340 pump should have no problem supplying all the fuel I need. I'm not saying you're wrong. Im more so curious if that jhm log was inflated somehow and doesn't accurately represent the norm, or if your pump was maybe not performing properly.

[EvolutionArmory]

In that graph the stock controller and the 340 pump was only making a little over 3 bar at the end. That’s not enough.

You’ll see for yourself I guess. Having a 340 pump won’t help you if the stock controller only lets you supply 60% of what it’s capable of. It is well known by now that the stock fuel pump controller can only produce 60% duty cycle even if it shows more in a log. It’s artificially capped by its own programming. Without the proper amps and duty cycle to run that pump, it’s not flowing anywhere near 340 LPH.

I don’t wanna be the I told you so guy but if you want to push a K04 beyond 280 WHP, you won’t have the fueling to do it without at least a RS4 controller or better no matter how big of a pump you put in there.

[EvolutionArmory]

My car makes 3.8 bar on the stock pump after 5500 with the RS4 controller. The controller is the reason why I have this much pressure on the stock pump. I used to only make 2.8 at redline and I gained a whole bar with the controller. Now installing a 340 LPH pump or higher might bring me up to over 4 bar but only because I have a controller that might be able to supply more amps and duty cycle to make the pump flow it. You just CAN NOT achieve the proper fuel demand with the stock controller to hit your goal. You’ll see.

142297


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[Dpartinvr4]

Started adding cam specs to the main post, the plan is to try and keep everything there for simplicity and so future researchers don't have to scrub pages of posts to find the pertinent info among the banter. I'll keep adding them as parts come in/the oportunity to measure them becomes possible.

[AudiB720TS]

How are you measuring the cams?

[Dpartinvr4]

For the lift, the lobe minus the base with a dial caliper, for duration I'll use a degree wheel and measure at .050 lift. I realize it isn't the most accurate of methods, but it's what I can offer and they'll all be measured the same way. So if not 100% exact measurements they'll at least be comparable to each other to determine differences.

[Dpartinvr4]

adding some random photos I'll organize later, the headlight retrofit, taillight tint, World Of Wheels this year, and the wheels with spacers.

[AudiB720TS]

For the lift, the lobe minus the base with a dial caliper, for duration I'll use a degree wheel and measure at .050 lift. I realize it isn't the most accurate of methods, but it's what I can offer and they'll all be measured the same way. So if not 100% exact measurements they'll at least be comparable to each other to determine differences.

OK,
Interested in your findings. The consensus seems to be they are the same as all other 2.0t cams, but would be nice to settle that.
The ability to do so (settle it) depends on how accurate you can measure ;)

[Dpartinvr4]

Runout gauge should be here tomorrow, I'll build a jig to hold the cam and get a more exact measurement

[Dpartinvr4]

Building the cam jig now to test lift, the plan is to tig the turbo muffler closed, this is my stock one I'll just swap into the ko4 when it's out.142921

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[Dpartinvr4]

Pic dump to get arranged later142922142923142924

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[Dpartinvr4]

I guess the app won't let you edit to add pics later142925

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[Dpartinvr4]

Here's the pcv system, it goes from the valve cover to a catch can, then a 10AN line to a check valve then into a siphon tube in the downpipe post O2's142933142934142935142936

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[Dpartinvr4]

Ended up just pulling the motor tonight. 7 hours, not bad for a first time.142969142970

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[Dpartinvr4]

JHM stage 1 RS4 clutch with chromoly flywheel after about 2k miles143123143124143125143126

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[Dpartinvr4]

Oem cam lift
I took 3 seperate measurements resetting each time.

Exhaust .234"

Intake .252"
143176143177143178143179

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[EvolutionArmory]

I’m looking forward to see if the Golf R exhaust cam has more lift than stock. That’s the one we haven’t seen any measurements for.

[Dpartinvr4]

I'm going as quick as I can!!!! Lol once I get a degree graph for the stock one I'll swap in the R cams real quick and do it all with that before I tear the whole thing apart so we have the measurements quicker. I'm not expecting to see anymore lift but it definitely looks like the intake has more duration

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[canadianA4B7]

Your saying the exhaust lobes read .234?

There’s also a NA cam out there that will adapt to our cylinder head. Can only assume that it has more lift. I also have read that the shrick 260 cams use similar lobes to the NA cam which would only make one think it’s already a oem .260 cam.

[EvolutionArmory]

Yeah, there’s definitely more duration on the intake for sure and likely the exhaust has more to match. I’m just curious if there’s more lift as well since nobody measured it. We hashed out the lift spec of the intake cam in another thread, just didn’t get any duration specs, but visibly, the cam profile is obviously different.

And we don’t really know if using these cams actually makes a noticeable improvement in performance. So far the few people who have made the swap only do the intake cam, which makes no sense to me. 😀

[Dpartinvr4]

Your saying the exhaust lobes read .234?

There’s also a NA cam out there that will adapt to our cylinder head. Can only assume that it has more lift. I also have read that the shrick 260 cams use similar lobes to the NA cam which would only make one think it’s already a oem .260 cam.That's what I got every time I measured them

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[Dpartinvr4]

Yeah, there’s definitely more duration on the intake for sure and likely the exhaust has more to match. I’m just curious if there’s more lift as well since nobody measured it. We hashed out the lift spec of the intake cam in another thread, just didn’t get any duration specs, but visibly, the cam profile is obviously different.

And we don’t really know if using these cams actually makes a noticeable improvement in performance. So far the few people who have made the swap only do the intake cam, which makes no sense to me. [emoji3]The exhaust cam looks much similar in duration to the golf R, unlike the intake cams which are visibly different, but we'll just have to see.

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[EvolutionArmory]

Have you thought about what’s going to happen when you start getting over 150 bar of high pressure fuel using the Golf R intake cam on top of the upgraded HPFP? You’ll be getting more fuel from the added lift of the fuel pump lobe plus what the fuel pump internals will provide that your tune won’t be expecting.

You’ll want to talk that over with your tuner.

[Dpartinvr4]

The rs4 controller will be here today and I'll drop in a dw300 pump to take care of the supply. I'll add it to the build list when it's done for the guy at vast to look over.
Have you thought about what’s going to happen when you start getting over 150 bar of high pressure fuel using the Golf R intake cam on top of the upgraded HPFP? You’ll be getting more fuel from the added lift of the fuel pump lobe plus what the fuel pump internals will provide that your tune won’t be expecting.

You’ll want to talk that over with your tuner.

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[Dpartinvr4]

Some goodies showed up today, RS4 fuel controller and a new N205 valve as the connector on mine was full of oil when I pulled it for disassembly.

Side note: I'm going to have to figure something out when trying to degree the cams as I don't have solid lifters to drop in 143473

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[EvolutionArmory]

The rs4 controller will be here today and I'll drop in a dw300 pump to take care of the supply. I'll add it to the build list when it's done for the guy at vast to look over.

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It’s good that you bought some low pressure fuel upgrades but I’m talking about high pressure 😀

With both the cam and the HPFP upgrade you might see unexpected spikes in HP fuel so you may need to run a much higher pressure relief valve or have your tune adjusted for it.

There’s a kid running the Golf R cam and a HPFP upgrade on a stock tune and his car gets 25% more fuel than it needs if he gives it full throttle and he hits fuel cut from the PRV. His car asks for 110 bar and he’s seeing 140 bar. You’ll be tuned for probably 130 bar plus so it might not be an issue for you. I’m just saying to plan ahead for that possibility. Maybe get a 155 bar PRV and let your tuner know that you’re running the cam with a bigger fuel lobe AND a HPFP upgrade.

[Dpartinvr4]

Wouldn't I then want the stock lower PRV? I'd rather it start to open it 120 to reduce spikes than have it be forced closed until it already hits 150 Before it starts bleeding off pressure?

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[EvolutionArmory]

Ideally, you don’t want the PRV to open at all if your car is running right.

It doesn’t just bleed out the overpressure and let you keep the rest. It just dumps a large amount of fuel pressure and gives you a huge fuel cut. This is why you talk everything over with your tuner beforehand and come up with a plan so you have all of the necessary hardware ready to go so you just roll into the shop and have no surprises. With the cam you might not even need the HPFP upgrade. It all depends on where he sets your requested fuel pressure. If he sets it to 140 bar, you’ll probably be fine with both upgrades and a 155 PRV.

If he only sets it to 130 bar, you’ll probably be fine with just the R cam and a RS4 136 bar PRV.

Either way you should talk to Vast and let them know that you’re running the R cam with more HPFP lift and an upgraded HPFP on top of it. And ask them what PRV they’ll want you to run for their tune.

There’s no better time to install the right PRV since you have the intake manifold off right now.

[Dpartinvr4]

Oem a4 hp lobe lift .1535"143552143553

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[AudiB720TS]

Oem a4 hp lobe lift .1535"143552143553

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Good stuff. Thanks for doing this.

[Dpartinvr4]

Good stuff. Thanks for doing this.It's by no means the most scientificly accurate measurements in the world, but I can get us at least close enough on the numbers to compare them.

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[canadianA4B7]

What part number on your RS4 lpfp controller? Can’t make out the last letter but some have experienced issues with the units letter code ending in “A”, the”B” units have worked successful.

[Dpartinvr4]

What part number on your RS4 lpfp controller? Can’t make out the last letter but some have experienced issues with the units letter code ending in “A”, the”B” units have worked successful.The number above the "made in hungary" ends in A

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[canadianA4B7]

The number above the "made in hungary" ends in A

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I think this is going to be an issue.

[Dpartinvr4]

I think this is going to be an issue.Do you have any links to people having problems with this? I haven't seen anything about it.

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[canadianA4B7]

Just knowledge of 10 years ownership. It’s happened a bunch during builds. I’ve sold 2 or 3 lpfp controllers myself.

[Dpartinvr4]

Care to specify what issues, so I know what to look for?
Just knowledge of 10 years ownership. It’s happened a bunch during builds. I’ve sold 2 or 3 lpfp controllers myself.

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[Dpartinvr4]

Theres a better picture144637

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[EvolutionArmory]

That part number is fine.

[canadianA4B7]

Didn’t mean to alarm ya mate. That unit will be good. Couldn’t make up pic earlier in threads.

[Dpartinvr4]

A little update I've decided after much deliberation to add intake runner flap delete to the build list, I've purchased all the equipment to cerakote the piston tops and the chambers and valve faces as well as go ahead and powder coat whatever other things I want to. the engine will be fully disassembled Saturday, Pistons get here next week Friday and I'll have everything ready for the machine shop.

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[EvolutionArmory]

What’s the point of painting the piston tops with ceramic paint?

Or painting them at all?

[Dpartinvr4]

It's a cured coating, not a paint. The ceramic coat acts as a thermal dispersant, and rejects heat, it keeps the temps more even across the piston and chamber and more or less gives an octane boosting effect with knock reduction. with proper prep it does not come off and you can dam near melt the piston and it will stay conformed to the crown.
What’s the point of painting the piston tops with ceramic paint?

Or painting them at all?

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[EvolutionArmory]

I use Cerakote a lot in my line of work so I am very familiar with their products.

I’m just wondering why you’re going through the trouble on such a low HP car, especially when you’re gonna be running meth.

It’s totally not necessary and it does wear. I wouldn’t want that stuff on an internal part. On an external part that will see corrosion, sure, because Cerakote has excellent corrosion resistance properties.

I just don’t want you to run into unnecessary issues, all because you took an unnecessary step on some wonder coating that doesn’t really do anything noticeable on such a low HP car. I just don’t want your build to just become another problem riddled car on Audizine because you did something unnecessary.

Cerakote is all about how it’s prepped and applied. If it’s not cleaned, gassed out, prepped and applied properly, it can flake off.

[Dpartinvr4]

This build is more about experimenting with the high compression stuff and anything I can do to help with knock I'm going to try. I've read enough on it and it's been used enough times successfully that I can confidently say it will work for my application. I'm well aware of what's involved with the prep process and have all the proper equipment to do it correctly and thoroughly. and when it's all said and done I'll be able to cerakote all my guns, and I can powdercoat anything I want with the other gun and make my money back on the equipment.

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[EvolutionArmory]

Sounds like a plan. I hope it works out for you.

It just seems odd that you’re doing all of this to run high compression and keep knock down when you could just drop compression slightly and be worry free. 😉 And it’s a K04 with meth build on top of it all.

Well, I’m in to see what happens, good or bad.

[Dpartinvr4]

The high compression is something I've always wanted to try and being under 20 pounds of boost should be better than low compression across the board. if everybody keeps doing the same thing and getting the same results we're never gonna learn anything. I wasn't planning on rebuilding the engine right now, but it decided otherwise. I've got the means to be the guinea pig so why not give it a shot.

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[Dpartinvr4]

Piston one looks like it was running lean, it's scorched pretty good. But there's enough carbon on it I can't say is a recent issue.

Cylinder four upper compression ring is seized, lower compression ring fell apart when that little chunk of the ringland fell off when the piston came out. The oil control ring is broke and the piece from its ringland hasn't been found yet, but there is no cylinder wall damage.145206145207

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[Dpartinvr4]

Tops of the pistons in order 1-4145208145209145210145211

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[Dpartinvr4]

Further investigation of cyl 1 shows it developed a subaru mod a good while ago.145213145214145213

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[Dpartinvr4]

Intake flap delete145442

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[Dpartinvr4]

Crank and mains in order 1-5 weird gauge on #2 but it didn't transfer to the crank and its only on one half the shell146002146003146004146006146007146008

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[Dpartinvr4]

Cylinders 1-4 #1 is burnt, but everything else still has cross thatching. It is getting punched out 1mm anyway but all looks in order otherwise.146013146014146015146016

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[Dpartinvr4]

Pistons arrived today, and I picked up a ste ppd for $175 that I need to resolder the map sensor onto.146365146366146367146368146369146370146371146 372

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[Dpartinvr4]

looks like the machine shop is about a month out on getting to my stuff, so my completion dates gonna be pushed back just a little FML.
Also spoke to Mike at vast for quite a while and went in depth on everything I'm doing with the build today, super cool and personable dude. We went over some things I didn't think of that I'll want to replace before I bring it up there like the primary 02 sensor and maf, but everything else looks like it's in order. He's having me stay with the stock prv so no change is needed there.

Now we just play the waiting game, I picked up some air suspension stuff today so I'm excited to piece the rest of that together in the mean time.

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[AudiB720TS]

Pistons arrived today, and I picked up a ste ppd for $175 that I need to resolder the map sensor onto.146365146366146367146368146369146370146371146 372

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Those are 83.5mm?

[Dpartinvr4]

Yes 83.5mm

also I verified the wastegate crack pressure is 10psi.



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[Dpartinvr4]

Not gonna lie, this thing is kind of calling my name.

https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-287

[canadianA4B7]

Not gonna lie, this thing is kind of calling my name.

https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-287

There’s options out there that will be more enjoyable. Though the new design gen 4 iirc is likely a bit faster then the older unit I ran. Though I wasn’t a fan of how quickly it fell out of boost. My EFR tends to spin much much faster between shifts and significant less lag. As I have suggested a number of times in the past Those looking for K04 boost curve (fast spool shit tones of bottom end) the 2863 W/.72 ar hotside series had literally zero lag and an amazingly fun car to drive. It’s also not running outside efficiency 26 psi from onset peak to 7200 rpm. With meth and this setup would be likely the best all around power house everyone here is looking for.

[Dpartinvr4]

I'll probably see how far I can take the k04 and go from there. It'll just be a turbo swap add retune if I ever want to go bigger down the road.

Also these showed up today :)148060148061

[AudiB720TS]

Hey my man,

Any conclusion on the Golf R EXHAUST cam vs stock 2.0T cam? I am about to sell my S3 exhaust cam, but I will cancel the transaction if the cam is actually different from our stock cam.
Can you quick assess or just give me your best guesstimate?

Many thanks

[Dpartinvr4]

Hey my man,

Any conclusion on the Golf R EXHAUST cam vs stock 2.0T cam? I am about to sell my S3 exhaust cam, but I will cancel the transaction if the cam is actually different from our stock cam.
Can you quick assess or just give me your best guesstimate?

Many thanksBy eye, the golf cams look to have more duration on both sides. less noticeably on the exhaust side but it's still there. the lift seems to be the same but I haven't had a chance to build V blocks yet to get hard numbers either way.

[Dpartinvr4]

Got the injectors all re sealed with my super rare installation tool made of hyper exotic unobtainium materials including shrink wrap and a pen totaling .39¢148603

[i3oricua]

Got the injectors all re sealed with my super rare installation tool made of hyper exotic unobtainium materials including shrink wrap and a pen totaling .39¢148603

That's very clever. You'll have to let us know if they leak or if that worked.

[Dpartinvr4]

Remeasured all the cams, checked everything four times over. I remembered wrong in my prior post, it's the exhaust cam that looked different.
Survey says the intake cams are the same but the pump lobe definitely has more lift. It should be noted my cam follower was worn through when I got my car so I can't say how much if any the lobes were worn down.
The exhaust cams have the same lift with 5° more duration on the Golf R cam.

All testing is only as accurate as a guy in his garage with some homemade v blocks and a dial caliper can be so take them with a grain of salt. Everything was measured in the same way to remove variables as best as possible.148676

[EvolutionArmory]

So this helps prove my theory that the exhaust cam has more to do with any head flow performance gain than the intake cam. Thanks for going through the trouble. I had a strong suspicion that the intake cam isn’t worth doing by itself and that the set should be installed if you want any gains. Which would be very small with both anyway. The intake cam is nice if you need like 150+ bar because you could use it in conjunction with a HPFP upgrade. But I think there’s very few turbos and tunes that are asking for that much fuel so maybe it isn’t even necessary at all.

[AudiB720TS]

Yeah, thanks for going through all that work.
I guess I will sell my intake cam and keep my exhaust cam then.

[Dpartinvr4]

Found this on another thread, it would appear my stock hpfp lobe was worn pretty significantly as oem is supposed to be .207 compared to my .153148913

[Dpartinvr4]

Given the information found in my prior post about my hpfp lobes being significantly worn down and the fact that the fuel rail is fed from the middle, it stands to reason somehow without throwing codes the end cylinders 1 and 4 were running lean and knocking before I got the car, that's what caused the piston malfunctions. Then when I got the car and put the bigger hpfp pump internals inside almost immediately, it was getting enough fuel to rectify the problem mostly but the damage was already done.

at this point I can only speculate what happened but that seems to make the most sense.

[Dpartinvr4]

Score from an early Black Friday sale :)149611

[canadianA4B7]

The tests you complete were with both cams new out of box? Or were you using the damaged cam you’ve just mentioned. Also by chance did you take 360 degree measurements of each lobe? I’d like to see measurement from 0 (top center of lobe) to 90, and 270-360 degrees. Even if 5 degree measures would be cool to see.

[Dpartinvr4]

The A4 cams are my original 165K mile ones, the golf R's are new in the box. I would do that but the V bocks have almost a thousandth run out on the lobe base which can result in two or 3° difference, when I'm just checking duration or peak numbers I can recheck everything three or four times and make sure it averages out right, but getting that precise with my setup I wouldn't want to mislead people with numbers that I know aren't completely accurate.
The tests you complete were with both cams new out of box? Or were you using the damaged cam you’ve just mentioned. Also by chance did you take 360 degree measurements of each lobe? I’d like to see measurement from 0 (top center of lobe) to 90, and 270-360 degrees. Even if 5 degree measures would be cool to see.

[canadianA4B7]

So scientifically what’s your accuracy? 10-15%?



Thank you, makes sense why my torque improved on the bottom end with just intake cam.

[Dpartinvr4]

So scientifically what’s your accuracy? 10-15%?



Thank you, makes sense why my torque improved on the bottom end with just intake cam.The lift and duration are definitely spot on, I checked them 4 times them had my buddy check and we got the same numbers at .05" and peak. I just won't give 5° increments of lift and call them fact as that's way to much time and resetting, and I can't verify tdc with the cam not in the car.

[EvolutionArmory]

So scientifically what’s your accuracy? 10-15%?



Thank you, makes sense why my torque improved on the bottom end with just intake cam.

Dude, he said the R intake cam and stock cam are the same lift and duration..... The intake cam didn’t do anything for you except give you more HPFP lift that you probably didnt need anyway. Damn, I feel like I live in a world where down is up and up is down sometimes 🤣

150058


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[canadianA4B7]

What engine modification would be required in order to benefit from this added fuel lift?

Has anyone been able to successfully add the same fuel lift from a cam with ECU tuning alone?

[EvolutionArmory]

The golf R cam fuel lobe does the same thing as the HPFP upgrade but from the other side. This is why Golf R’s don’t need HPFP upgrades for reflashes and we need them for stage 2+, K04, ETC.

There’s a guy running a Golf R cam AND a HPFP upgrade on a stock tune and he’s getting 145 actual with 110 requested and gets fuel cut outs above half throttle but won’t change it back 🤣🤣

If you were running a tune that asked for 140+ bar, the cam would help you get there without maxing out your HPFP. You would dial it in through ECU tuning, not really hardware. At least that’s how I see it working right.

[Dpartinvr4]

The golf R cam fuel lobe does the same thing as the HPFP upgrade but from the other side. This is why Golf R’s don’t need HPFP upgrades for reflashes and we need them for stage 2+, K04, ETC.

There’s a guy running a Golf R cam AND a HPFP upgrade on a stock tune and he’s getting 145 actual with 110 requested and gets fuel cut outs above half throttle but won’t change it back [emoji1787][emoji1787]

If you were running a tune that asked for 140+ bar, the cam would help you get there without maxing out your HPFP. You would dial it in through ECU tuning, not really hardware. At least that’s how I see it working right.What bar prv does he have?

[EvolutionArmory]

What bar prv does he have?

Stock 🤣

I keep telling him to take out his fuel pump upgrade internals but he says as long as he doesn’t give it too much gas he’s fine with it. He’s just a guy who didn’t research mods well enough before doing them. He’s got 500 HP worth of fueling upgrades in a 200 HP car. 🤯 Makes no sense.

[canadianA4B7]

What bar prv does he have?

He who?

[Dpartinvr4]

He who?The guy evolution was referencing, and with that said if he has a stock PRV why isnt it opening at 128 bar?

[EvolutionArmory]

The guy evolution was referencing, and with that said if he has a stock PRV why isnt it opening at 128 bar?

I’ll have to look at that. It’s in the Golf R cam thread.

[EvolutionArmory]

He has the stock 130 valve in there. His tune asks for 110 bar. Then his actual shoots up to 130 for a bit then 140 and it trips the PRV and he gets a fuel overpressure code. His logs are in that thread. He purposely has mods in that put him in limp mode all the time. Makes no sense.

[Dpartinvr4]

These showed up today, dropped the new valve guides off, should have everything back in the next week 150465

[Dpartinvr4]

The diff shim fairy stopped by today150514

[Dpartinvr4]

Followed this writeup https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/799091-02X-Center-Diff-Modification

Install was a breeze

stock washers with teflon
Front .056"
middle is.058"

New JHM washers without teflon
Front .056"
Middle .059"

I'm assuming the lack of teflon is what changes the friction on the front washer, and the lack of teflon and physical thickness for the middle.151403151404151405151406151407

[Dpartinvr4]

A little paint goes a long way :)151414151415151416

[Dpartinvr4]

Block off plate made151455

[Dpartinvr4]

Today's adventure152776152777152778

[Dpartinvr4]

One of my oil squirter bolts has a broken spring, fml

[Dpartinvr4]

Turbo muffler delete done.152840152841

[canadianA4B7]

Where are you pulling your crank and head pressures to? Exhaust? Or VTA? I see a built block off plate? May want to research this before you start. As an aside what release valve do you have installed for the crank case over pressure?

[i3oricua]

One of my oil squirter bolts has a broken spring, fml

I don’t remember these having springs. If they do then I’m in trouble because not a single one of my squirters had one.


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[Dpartinvr4]

Where are you pulling your crank and head pressures to? Exhaust? Or VTA? I see a built block off plate? May want to research this before you start. As an aside what release valve do you have installed for the crank case over pressure?I have it run to a catchcan and then check valve to scavenge pipe into the exhaust post O2 sensor to pull a vacuum on the crankcase and head. It's worked great for the last 20k miles

[Dpartinvr4]

I don’t remember these having springs. If they do then I’m in trouble because not a single one of my squirters had one.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey have a little check ball/spring in them that's designed to only open when the oil pressure gets high enough, and stay closed at idle when they're not needed.
Three of mine hold pressure like they're supposed to, and one of the little check balls is just flopping around in the banjo bolt providing zero resistance to flow.

[Dpartinvr4]

Picked up 4 new oil squirters heres what a bad one looks like vs a good one153357153358

[Dpartinvr4]

Old 126bar vs new 140bar PRV153385153386153387

[Dpartinvr4]

Ceramic coating done on the Pistons and head, once they cool I'll put the dry film lube on the skirts153530153531

[Dpartinvr4]

Numbers check on JE Pistons, my head was decked .004" which ive taken out off the .9 mm head gasket thickness. I've also added the .004" wall clearance to the bore. The 46cc chamber volume 0 deck height and .9 mm compressed head gasket thickness ive got from another thread on the forum, if those are incorrect or anyone has actual numbers that I haven't been able to take yet feel free to correct me. But im getting 11.0:1 which is right where I wanted to be.154002

[Dpartinvr4]

Everything coated, working on assembly now. Ring gaps
Top .017
Bottom .018
Oil contr. >.015
154198

[Dpartinvr4]

Bottom end assembled :) 154203154204

[EvolutionArmory]

What’s the timeframe for first start!!

[Van Black]

Aren't you a bit high with 11:1 compression ratio?

[EvolutionArmory]

Aren't you a bit high with 11:1 compression ratio?

That’s what I said a few pages back. Usually you’d want to drop compression a little to make higher boost more efficient, not raise it. The K04 has no problem making power down low so raising compression can only hurt top end if you hit the knock limit. You’d think someone would want the top end to be more efficient on a small frame turbo, not the low end.

I don’t understand why people do half the things they do anymore 🤣

[Dpartinvr4]

That’s what I said a few pages back. Usually you’d want to drop compression a little to make higher boost more efficient, not raise it. The K04 has no problem making power down low so raising compression can only hurt top end if you hit the knock limit. You’d think someone would want the top end to be more efficient on a small frame turbo, not the low end.

I don’t understand why people do half the things they do anymore [emoji1787] all things equal the an engine will make more power everywhere with higher compression the Knock window is just smaller, this effect does start to go away after about 25 pounds of boost though due to what you have to change with your ignition timing. being this turbo "and if I go with a bigger EFR down the road" will never see over probably 22 pounds of boost I'm a perfect candidate for higher compression. the new WRXs run 12:1 on boost from the factory so it's not like I'm diving into uncharted waters here, especially being direct injected it's a whole Nother ballgame. people just regurgitate the same nonsense from the 90s about lowering compression because people were blowing up hondas because they didn't know how to tune and blamed it on the CR. I called VAST and talked to their tuner/engine builder before I started any of this and he was thrilled that I wanted to go with higher compression being of the same opinion as me on the subject.

I realize no one wants to believe me on this so until I get it tuned "hopefully late January" I won't be able to prove anything, so we'll just have to agree to disagree until I can prove myself right or eat my own foot.

[i3oricua]

all things equal the an engine will make more power everywhere with higher compression the Knock window is just smaller, this effect does start to go away after about 25 pounds of boost though due to what you have to change with your ignition timing. being this turbo "and if I go with a bigger EFR down the road" will never see over probably 22 pounds of boost I'm a perfect candidate for higher compression. the new WRXs run 12:1 on boost from the factory so it's not like I'm diving into uncharted waters here, especially being direct injected it's a whole Nother ballgame. people just regurgitate the same nonsense from the 90s about lowering compression because people were blowing up hondas because they didn't know how to tune and blamed it on the CR. I called VAST and talked to their tuner/engine builder before I started any of this and he was thrilled that I wanted to go with higher compression being of the same opinion as me on the subject.

I realize no one wants to believe me on this so until I get it tuned "hopefully late January" I won't be able to prove anything, so we'll just have to agree to disagree until I can prove myself right or eat my own foot.

I’m all positive vibes about what you’re doing. I did the same thing on my Integra when I had it and ran it safely although at lower boost. The tuning is the difference maker and a good tuner will monitor knock like a hawk. Keep pressing man. We’d still be riding around on square stone “wheels” if people weren’t to do things others aren’t.


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[EvolutionArmory]

all things equal the an engine will make more power everywhere with higher compression the Knock window is just smaller, this effect does start to go away after about 25 pounds of boost though due to what you have to change with your ignition timing. being this turbo "and if I go with a bigger EFR down the road" will never see over probably 22 pounds of boost I'm a perfect candidate for higher compression. the new WRXs run 12:1 on boost from the factory so it's not like I'm diving into uncharted waters here, especially being direct injected it's a whole Nother ballgame. people just regurgitate the same nonsense from the 90s about lowering compression because people were blowing up hondas because they didn't know how to tune and blamed it on the CR. I called VAST and talked to their tuner/engine builder before I started any of this and he was thrilled that I wanted to go with higher compression being of the same opinion as me on the subject.

I realize no one wants to believe me on this so until I get it tuned "hopefully late January" I won't be able to prove anything, so we'll just have to agree to disagree until I can prove myself right or eat my own foot.

Unless I throw in a couple gallons of 100 octane, I get some timing correction with my tune and I’m only running 20 PSI. I’m just surprised that you’d want to go higher. I mean, VW dropped compression on the Golf R for a reason. Maybe they don’t know as much as the tuner from Vast though. 🤣🤣

I’m just busting your balls bud. Is 11 going to be much different than 10.5:1? Probably not. It’s just odd you wanted to raise it. It’s not conventional thinking is all. I really hope your plans come together and you make over 300 WHP with a K04R. Please take logs and post them up. I’ll graph them so everyone can see everything easy if you send them to me if you can’t graph them.

[Dpartinvr4]

Its a daily, I wanted off boost mpg's for the highway, and let's be real hp #'s are cool but torque is what makes a car fun. Im looking to get a broad curve that makes for a fun awd car from down low. If I wanted big power then yes I'd drop it, but for what im looking for from the car, going up isn't going to hurt it. Even if I decide I want more, an efr turbo can get me around 400whp and not have to go much over 20 psi.

I'll post up everything I can when it gets to that point, I want to be completely transparent. If it works we'll see what changes from the normal and be informed, if it doesn't work, well then I paid to learn but now it's not speculation and we all are more informed

And as a counterpoint to the golf R having lower compression it's a whole lot easier to meet emissions standards with less compression. that would be my guess, but we're just gonna have to wait and see what happens

[EvolutionArmory]

It would be sweet to not lose 50 foot pounds by 5200. I did expect my torque curve to be a little flatter. Mine hits 300 foot pounds at 3K but it starts tapering down pretty steadily to 250 by 5200. Well, that was my dyno run last year with a soft wastegate setting. I’ve made some adjustments since then and I’m adding a 100 octane file real soon. I’ll go back after. It will be cool to compare a built motor and custom tune to my stock motor and GIAC tune with the same turbo.

Hopefully you’ll be the 2nd K04R in this section that actually runs right. 👍🏻👍🏻

[Dpartinvr4]

Went to PRI today but a little bit of progress was made still 154514

[Dpartinvr4]

Just waiting on the valve spring compressor to reassemble the head then I'll get her wrapped up.155192155193155194

[Dpartinvr4]

Ran into a problem, none of the valves but two seat properly, going to the machine shop tomorrow to raise hell. " it has nothing to do with the coating, I lapped two valves to check for myself, and they're definitely cut wrong." :(

[Dpartinvr4]

Should have it ready to drop back in tomorrow155941155942155943

[Dpartinvr4]

Soon..........156070156071

[Dpartinvr4]

She's in and she runs :)156201156202156203

[MALMGRDC]

Do you have a youtube channel?

[EvolutionArmory]

Nice. Is that the ECS intercooler? If it is, it will be great to see if it can keep up with a built K04 without the meth.

What ended up being the issue with your valves?

[Dpartinvr4]

Do you have a youtube channel?No we never ended up making one, I'm still kicking myself in the ass for not doing it

[Dpartinvr4]

Nice. Is that the ECS intercooler? If it is, it will be great to see if it can keep up with a built K04 without the meth.

What ended up being the issue with your valves?Yeah it's actually a pretty solid kit, I've gotta do a little bit of tweaking to compensate for my throttlebody spacer but it fits really good even at that. and they claimed that it was worn-out stones the new guy used, I think they cut them with the old valve guides in but whatever the reason everything is sealed up now so it's all good.

[Dpartinvr4]

https://youtu.be/-dhCNo5h_To

This is from my channel, I'll add videos and stuff as I go from now on.

[MALMGRDC]

Glad they were able to resolve the machining issues! New motor sounds great!

[EvolutionArmory]

Now that the motor is back together, how soon until the custom tune?

[Dpartinvr4]

Now that the motor is back together, how soon until the custom tune? I've got to do some break in first but hopefully by the end of February.156475

[EvolutionArmory]

But you still have the K04 tune you were running before the build, right? It would be cool to see some before and after logs

[Dpartinvr4]

The problem is im now 11:1 instead of 10.5:1 I dont want to go to hard, with the water meth it should be fine, and im working on the ppd Install so I can monitor knock but ideally I'm not going to get on it to much without the proper tune.

[Dpartinvr4]

Made some modifications to the bumper now the side mounts are gone to help with aero.156832156833156834156835156836156837

[Dpartinvr4]

Relocated the water meth controller156840

[Dpartinvr4]

First test drive was successful :)156948156949156950

[Dpartinvr4]

Notes:
Ecs tuning performance mounts are way to stiff for my liking, the whole car vibrates, I'm going to swap the push mount back to the RS4 mount I have and see how that feels.

Walbro 450 and rs4 fuel controller are getting installed tomorrow

Compression is 140 across all cylinders, " I have a rotary compression tester, so the pulses don't build, I just see the individual spikes"

The car is very responsive to any throttle input, boost happens like "right now" lol I'm definitely excited to get it tuned

Ecs intercooler after 20mins at 2500rpm on jackstands, only the rad fans moving air
Hot side 88° cold side 54°

[EvolutionArmory]

I’m very interested to see how the ECS cooler does when hot side temps are over 200 degrees under full boost. Watching temps when you’re at idle not making any boost isn’t telling you much unfortunately.

[Dpartinvr4]

I’m very interested to see how the ECS cooler does when hot side temps are over 200 degrees under full boost. Watching temps when you’re at idle not making any boost isn’t telling you much unfortunately.I guess I should add that's after 20 minutes at 2500 RPM to break the engine in and with only the radiator fans for air movement so it should have had plenty of time to heat soak if it was gonna do it. I'll get more info as the opportunities arise but I'm just trying to give you guys what I find as it shows up.

[EvolutionArmory]

You’ve got a turbo blanket on there, right? It looks like it’s doing it’s job keeping the cold side cold. 😉 That data is more beneficial in showing how well your turbo blanket is working, not really your intercooler.

I’ve got one but it won’t slip on without removing the turbo so my motivation to install it is low. I might have to move it up on the priority list.

[Dpartinvr4]

You’ve got a turbo blanket on there, right? It looks like it’s doing it’s job keeping the cold side cold. [emoji6] That data is more beneficial in showing how well your turbo blanket is working, not really your intercooler.

I’ve got one but it won’t slip on without removing the turbo so my motivation to install it is low. I might have to move it up on the priority list.You have to remove the lower heat shielding,I have the cts one and it's the only way I could get it on.

[EvolutionArmory]

You installed it originally while the turbo was still on the car? Maybe if I remove the test pipe and turbo side engine mount I'll have enough room. Maybe I'll revisit it in the spring.

[Dpartinvr4]

Yeah, I won't say it was fun but if you remove that heat shield, and I have a catless downpipe, it's doable on car

[Dpartinvr4]

https://youtu.be/okREnsA75No a little rev action

[Dpartinvr4]

My ECS black silicone breather tube showed up today, a little trimming and it fits like a champ, I had the OEM one in the parts washer for five days and there was still crap coming out of it after blowing it out every day!!!157171157172157173

[Dpartinvr4]

IAT 6° above ambient while cruising
10° above ambient during pulls.

Maf 3.4-3.8g/s at idle
255 g/s peak wot 2nd gear pull

[Dpartinvr4]

I don't have any pictures but I'll add that the RS4 fuel controller and Walbro 450 have been installed.

[EvolutionArmory]

When you had your turbo out did you check wastegate crack pressure like I recommended?

Who’s tune are you running? 255 peak MAF is low for this turbo with a good tune and properly set wastegate.

Mine makes between 270-280 from 6K to redline for example.

[Dpartinvr4]

When you had your turbo out did you check wastegate crack pressure like I recommended?

Who’s tune are you running? 255 peak MAF is low for this turbo with a good tune and properly set wastegate.

Mine makes between 270-280 from 6K to redline for example.Yes it's 10 pounds

Jhm, This was second gear so it's not under full load, I haven't really done high load full pulls yet because of what I'll explain below

Do you have any logs of what your knock sensor voltage looks like?
watching things while cruising if I even tap the throttle say going from 12 to 16% input it instantly pulls 1.75° of timing looking at the Knock retard then goes right back to 0°kw without throttle input change
under full throttle it will instantly pull 9.25-10°kw then give it back 1° at a time over the course maybe three seconds tops

obviously that's very concerning and I did expect timing pull with the old tune and higher compression, but I'm not hearing any pinging to suggest I'm getting knock and the spark plugs aren't showing me anything happening but normal operation

I have currently got the water meth basically turned off , when I get off work tonight I'm gonna try turning it up and seeing what the car does with timing.

Voltage with the key on car off is 1.872v all 4
Car idling it's 0.000 and if I blip the throttle it goes to 0.156 then 0 on all 4 and switches between those two intermittently on all 4 cylinders.
Cruising all 4 cylinders sit right around .624v157380157381157382

[EvolutionArmory]

I don’t know anything about what the knock sensor voltages should be.

And you’re experiencing exactly what I thought you’d be experiencing. You should lower compression, not raise it.

If you’re running JHM’s tune, it’s utter trash. I wouldn’t do any full throttle runs with it. Trying to figure out any hardware issues with a trash tune will be very difficult.

Log 003 for timing if you feel safe doing so with the JHM tune. You should have 0 timing advance at full boost and have it steadily rise to about 10 degrees if it’s a pump gas tune.

[EvolutionArmory]

And don’t use the water/meth as a crutch. You gotta make it run well on pump gas first.

[i3oricua]

Not true with timing. It will pull some running and 5 degrees at full load is pretty safe. 10 degrees does get concerning. You could potentially bring that back with the meth but you should expect the engine to hear some noise. You're still ok with high compression but you need a better tune. The JHM one is garbage and you should look at another company to do something custom. I can say that with Motoza I am extremely happy but it is a long process. I'm currently on file 6 and we're still doing work and making sure it's safe before going past my current 23 psi. I think we started in November of I remember right.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[Dpartinvr4]

It was more to see if the sensors show anything different. And I expected to see issues with a tune for 10.5 ruining 11, so we can't make any assumptions until it gets tuned properly, im just trying to verify everything hardware wise is working properly before going there.
And don’t use the water/meth as a crutch. You gotta make it run well on pump gas first.

[EvolutionArmory]

Or it could just be that your tune was written around stock compression and upping base compression just means that a tune with less advance would cure your timing correction factor.

Like I said before, it’s harder to figure out since you’ve got higher compression and a less than stellar tune.

Aren’t you also running super stiff mounts? It could be false knock caused by vibrations.

Another thing you said earlier is that you’re only getting like 140 PSI compression on your tester. Does having such low compression numbers on a basically brand new motor concern you or do you think it was just the tester you used?

[EvolutionArmory]

Not true with timing. It will pull some running and 5 degrees at full load is pretty safe. 10 degrees does get concerning. You could potentially bring that back with the meth but you should expect the engine to hear some noise. You're still ok with high compression but you need a better tune. The JHM one is garbage and you should look at another company to do something custom. I can say that with Motoza I am extremely happy but it is a long process. I'm currently on file 6 and we're still doing work and making sure it's safe before going past my current 23 psi. I think we started in November of I remember right.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

What’s not true? The dude is getting 10 degrees of CF. His ECU is trying to not let him grenade the engine.

Sure, getting a couple degrees of CF is fine if it’s just for a little spot in the powerband. It just means the ECU sees something it doesn’t like and is pulling a little timing. But 10 is no bueno. And having CF everywhere is no bueno.

Hopefully this is all due to shit JHM tuning in general and the fact that he raised base CR. Hopefully a custom tune will run mint.

[EvolutionArmory]

It was more to see if the sensors show anything different. And I expected to see issues with a tune for 10.5 ruining 11, so we can't make any assumptions until it gets tuned properly, im just trying to verify everything hardware wise is working properly before going there.

When I was diagnosing my slow JHM tune I dropped half a tank of 100 octane in it to see if it corrected the timing pull I was getting everywhere. It did. I swapped tunes almost immediately. Now I only get like 1.5 degrees CF on a random cylinder occasionally, which is more than safe.

As long as you use it for diagnostic purposes and don’t have your tuner tune the car relying on meth to make it run right, I agree with you that it might be a good idea to try.

[Dpartinvr4]

The compression I'm not worried about, between the gauge not being cumulative and the rings not being seated fully yet, I'm going to check it again later this week after I get more miles on it, if it's still low, then I'll be concerned.

[Dpartinvr4]

Also I swapped back to oem rs4 mounts, the ecs ones were way to much vibration, even running just one on the pull side.

[Dpartinvr4]

Wot 3rd gear 10° then walks up to 15°

timing pull still goes to -9.25° then slowly lowers

the water meth doesn't really seem to change anything with the knock timing pull

[EvolutionArmory]

Wot 3rd gear 10° then walks up to 15°

timing pull still goes to -9.25° then slowly lowers

the water meth doesn't really seem to change anything with the knock timing pull

What are you making for timing advance at 3K or whenever full boost is met? It should be very low to zero and gradually ramp up all the way to redline. One of my graphs. I don’t remember what tune this is with though.

157488


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[Dpartinvr4]

What are you making for timing advance at 3K or whenever full boost is met? It should be very low to zero and gradually ramp up all the way to redline. One of my graphs. I don’t remember what tune this is with though.

157488


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Going wot at 3k it goes to roughly 6-8° then walks up to 13° by 6k

[EvolutionArmory]

That’s pretty aggressive timing for a pump gas tune or is that a 100 octane tune?

[Dpartinvr4]

That’s pretty aggressive timing for a pump gas tune or is that a 100 octane tune?That's the 93 tune.

[EvolutionArmory]

What’s your boost log look like? I think JHM is one of those tuners that prefer timing over boost to make power. Only problem is, it doesn’t work as good and you get knock 🤣

[Dpartinvr4]

What’s your boost log look like? I think JHM is one of those tuners that prefer timing over boost to make power. Only problem is, it doesn’t work as good and you get knock [emoji1787]Which blocks do I need to log to check

[EvolutionArmory]

Log block 115 for requested VS actual. Log block 119 for N75 duty cycle. I wish you had VCDS and not ODB11. I’d have you email me the logs and I’d graph them so they’re easy to look at.

[EvolutionArmory]

I don’t know how deep in the weeds you’ll want to get with logging for a tune you’re getting rid of. In fact, maybe you shouldn’t push the car too hard with that tune. It’s utter trash.

[Dpartinvr4]

I'll send evolution the full .csv file, I can't upload it to here. This is a screenshot of what appears to be the worst of it, 2nd gear pull with water meth " honestly I think it pulls more timing with the WM on then with it off" considering the timing pole there is no audible pinging or roughness that I can hear/feel. Obviously this is a tune not meant for this set up, it's just like this for break in. I'm not going to do anymore pulls, the rings are pretty much seated as the blowby pulses out of the dipstick are all but gone. I should be taking the car to VAST at the end of the month for the proper tune.157578

[Dpartinvr4]

A couple more spots around that one157580157581

[EvolutionArmory]

I couldn’t do anything with the OBD11 file you sent me. A proper file has to have the data columns line up properly like this.
157621


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[Dpartinvr4]

All I can do is export .csv and send the file it gives me

[Dpartinvr4]

New 710 dipstick showed up today ;)157844

[Dpartinvr4]

300 miles in157876

[Dpartinvr4]

Lpfp is 45% at idle/cruise
70% wot

Hpfp 101-105 bar cruise
120 bar wot

[EvolutionArmory]

What your low pressure look like after 5500? Are you able to keep 4+ bar with the RS4 controller and DW300?

I can’t believe how neutered that JHM K04 file is. Only asking for 120 bar HP fuel.

[Dpartinvr4]

What your low pressure look like after 5500? Are you able to keep 4+ bar with the RS4 controller and DW300?

I can’t believe how neutered that JHM K04 file is. Only asking for 120 bar HP fuel.I have a walbro 450 and I didn't grab that in the log, but if it's only requesting 70% and holding 120bar to redline, I'd assume it's got the volume it needs.

Also this shows the car is capable of managing the fuel with the hpfp upgraded internals, golf R cam, and 144bar prv without issue.

[EvolutionArmory]

Oh, no doubt you’ll be able to hit over 120 bar with the S3/R cam. It’s just that a stage 3 tune only asking for 120 is a weak tune is all I’m saying. Most of us K04 and big turbo guys are seeing 130 bar or more. I can’t wait for you to get this thing tuned right. I’m hoping that the higher compression works out the way you hope it does and you have a record setting K04 build when you get that garbage of a tune out of there. 😀

[EvolutionArmory]

My GIAC tune asks for 130 bar and I can meet it easy with just the HPFP upgrade for example.
157939

You’ll have no issues hitting whatever your tuner requests for high pressure with your set up even if he requests 140 bar.


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[Dpartinvr4]

I was more referring to the concern that the car would over fuel itself and not be able to control the high-pressure side.

[EvolutionArmory]

I was just curious if the RS4 controller and your Walbro 450 keeps you above 4 bar, that’s all. Mine requests 4.5 the whole time and drops to 3.8 at 5500 to redline. Plenty of fuel to not have an issue. My question was mostly for my own information.

Low fuel pressure is the only log that isn’t meeting requested for me. I know 3.8 bar is still plenty of fuel pressure but it bugs me that it’s not meeting it. If your pump can supply over 4 bar at WOT to redline with the RS4 controller maybe I’d buy one. It’s irrational, I know but it bugs me that it’s the only log that isn’t hitting target perfectly.

[Dpartinvr4]

I was just curious if the RS4 controller and your Walbro 450 keeps you above 4 bar, that’s all. Mine requests 4.5 the whole time and drops to 3.8 at 5500 to redline. Plenty of fuel to not have an issue. My question was mostly for my own information.

Low fuel pressure is the only log that isn’t meeting requested for me. I know 3.8 bar is still plenty of fuel pressure but it bugs me that it’s not meeting it. If your pump can supply over 4 bar at WOT to redline with the RS4 controller maybe I’d buy one. It’s irrational, I know but it bugs me that it’s the only log that isn’t hitting target perfectly.Third gear pull to redline requested 4.5, actual is basically 6 bar the whole time157990

[Dpartinvr4]

6 bar all day157991

[EvolutionArmory]

That’s what I’m talking about. Looks like the 450 is a champ with the RS4 module. Thanks for that data. I’ve got a spare fuel pump at my shop and I’ll pick up a 450 to throw in it just because.

[Dpartinvr4]

That’s what I’m talking about. Looks like the 450 is a champ with the RS4 module. Thanks for that data. I’ve got a spare fuel pump at my shop and I’ll pick up a 450 to throw in it just because.You'll get my bill in the mail ;)

[EvolutionArmory]

You'll get my bill in the mail ;)

Shit, if getting paid for data was a thing I’d be driving a new RS6 🤣

[Dpartinvr4]

Now I'm on the hunt for a bigger turbo lol I haven't even seen 300 at the wheels yet, but I'm thinking 450 to 500 sounds nicer

[EvolutionArmory]

Now I'm on the hunt for a bigger turbo lol I haven't even seen 300 at the wheels yet, but I'm thinking 450 to 500 sounds nicer

Nah man, I’d like to see what you can do with this. A 300+ WHP car that sees full boost at 2800 is bad ass. We don’t need to see another EFR or GTX build. Let’s see a proper K04 build with a built motor and custom tune. Big turbo builds on here are boring because nobody ever finishes them.


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[Dpartinvr4]

I just keep seeing golf R's that are damn near 500 hp stage three, that's the cool thing about a big turbo build for me, is the builds already done I just have to slap on the big turbo lol, We'll see how things pan out in its current state after the tune and I'll reassess from there, you just get a bit desensitized with all the high horsepower cars that come out now and forget how quick a 300 horse at the wheel car actually is.

[EvolutionArmory]

Yeah dude, there’s K04’d B8’s running 12.3 1/4 miles at 109 MPH. That’s a fast car. Their cars make a little more power with these turbos due to Audi valve lift but with a built motor and custom tune, you should easily get the car in the high 12’s if your tuner is any good.

What sets your build apart from a lot of builds that get started and never finished around here is you have a plan and are seeing it through in a reasonable time frame. Finish what you started. If this works out the way you think it will and have success, you’re just a turbo, injector and tune swap away from going big turbo.

[Dpartinvr4]

Got the front end done, going back to chrome rings, the black on black is too much158157

[Dpartinvr4]

Working on the air ride install159053159054159055159056159057159058

[Dpartinvr4]

Tune is happening in a couple weeks and gotta finish tinting the windows160031

[EvolutionArmory]

Any updates?

[Dpartinvr4]

February 14 and if I need it the 15th are my dates scheduled for the tune, starter decided to take a crap so I'm still waiting for it to show up

[EvolutionArmory]

February 14 and if I need it the 15th are my dates scheduled for the tune, starter decided to take a crap so I'm still waiting for it to show up

Nice. I’ll have my meth kit installed by then so we’ll be able to see how a built K04R and custom tune does against a stock block off the shelf tune. You have a meth kit too, right? I’m gonna hit the dyno again in March.

[Dpartinvr4]

Yup, aem stage 2 progressive 500 nozzle post tb

[Dpartinvr4]

3 more days!!!!!

[Dpartinvr4]

And mother nature's on the rag so I can't get tuned, fingers crossed this bullshit melts by next week

[Dpartinvr4]

T -4 hours to tune time

[i3oricua]

T -4 hours to tune timeAnd then.....?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[aluthman]

He’s in orbit... we might hear from him in a few days.

[Dpartinvr4]

Still tuning, but she's a beast so far

[EvolutionArmory]

And the results are?

[Dpartinvr4]

Yesterday was a 20 hour day for me, we did 5 revisions, they had the trims dialed in at .3% by the second revision, the last two were just playing with the meth to see how the car acted. There's a little afr fluctuation at around 5000 rpm that stays well within what's safe, but deviated from requested where the rest of the pull stays rock solid, the maf g/s also fluctuated with it up and down 1 g/s then straightens back out. Cyl 1 and 2 pull about 9 degrees up top where 3 and 4 only pull 4.5. Knock voltage is identical on both sensors, so it's not knock related retard. I'm going to do somrce diag to get that figured out. I'm hoping it's either a tiny boost leak or the maf just needs replaced, worst case I've got vales not seating or valve float. We swapped plugs and Moved coils while I was there and it helped a little, but not all the way. Without the logs to see it though, you'd never know it was doing anything on the back end. I hit 23psi at 2300 rpm and it holds 20 until about 5k then tapers to 17 at redline. The car pulls like a freight train.
once I get the afr issue straightened out, I'm going to go back for one more revision then throw it up on the dyno. I'll try and get a rough number with a dyno app in the mean time, but the car is definitely well into the 12's.

[EvolutionArmory]

Pulling 4-5 is bad enough but 9 degrees? Some timing pull is good because that means you’re not giving it less than you should, like .8-1.5 degrees as long as it’s consistent across all 4 but if you’re getting that much pull you should probably back off on timing.

What did he set timing advance at?

[aluthman]

Pulling 4-5 is bad enough but 9 degrees? Some timing pull is good because that means you’re not giving it less than you should, like .8-1.5 degrees as long as it’s consistent across all 4 but if you’re getting that much pull you should probably back off on timing.

What did he set timing advance at?

This, especially in cold weather. It will get worse in the summer. The ecu can only pull up to 12 degrees to keep things safe.

[EvolutionArmory]

This is why you drop compression, not raise it. More boost and timing without having to worry about fuel quality or power adders like 100 octane, meth or E85.

I wonder what his actual verified CR is with those aftermarket pistons. All I’ve been reading about lately is how off most of these pistons are from stated CR. Maybe he’s even higher than advertised?

[Dpartinvr4]

I have plenty of injector left, I can add in some e85 and use even More timing. I have seen these guys builds in person they do awesome work. I was in the shop with them all day, if they say pulling 4 degrees is fine then I'm inclined to believe them. The car feels amazing. Once I get the slight deviation up top straightened out it'll only Get better. I'll get a quarter mile time as soon as the track opens, but I'm not sure how you can say it's a trash build with a horrible compression clue from one post about a little timing pull up top.

[EvolutionArmory]

Well that was a stretch. Lol!!

Insecure about something? Trash build? When did I say that?

I just asked what the guy set timing at and said maybe he should back it off a little and wondered if you actually verified engine compression.

[Dpartinvr4]

You keep harping on I Need to drop compression, I've explained why it's not 1990 anymore and that's just regurgitating bullshit. Timing advance is at 4°.

[Dpartinvr4]

And if you go back I did the math on the actual compression it's 11:1, my head was decked so the claimed 10.98:1 was likely correct

[EvolutionArmory]

You can say that what applied in 1990 doesn’t apply today all you want but that doesn’t make it even remotely true.

Think about it. Why is the Golf R lower CR and is more powerful than a A4 bolt on for bolt on? Why did Audi drop the CR on the B8 and why was it lower on the 1.8T?

Lower CR works better with high boost. Science isn’t bullshit.

[Dpartinvr4]

23 psi is low boost, the golf R is lower compression because emissions. Its more hp because fwd driveline loss is less. The ko4 runs out of efficiency at the top end, what's the way to make more power when the turbo cant.....add compression. And 1990 science applies to technology from 1990. With direct injection the car isnt knocking with all that compression at all. 0 knock events. It's pulling timing because the afr is starting to walk out from requested then go rich then even out. Once I find the cause of that, its solid.

[texasboy21]

4* of timing is quite low.

[Dpartinvr4]

Its valve float, to much money is never enough. Gotta get springs swaped and I'll get it back up there for another revision.

[Dpartinvr4]

Sorry it's 8-10° I looked at the wrong cel.

[Dpartinvr4]

Looking like next month I'll have time to swap the valve springs then get some dyno numbers. After that considering I have springs now, I may as well go big turbo and take advantage of wider rev range, I'm looking at the G25-550 from atp to fit the build. It'll be end of summer late fall before it's a reality, but I like to plan ahead.

[Dpartinvr4]

Pic dump from tuner galleria 2020 Chicago167157167158167159167160167161167162

[Dpartinvr4]

Has anybody looked at the vacuum pump delete for the 2.5, I don't see why I couldn't ditch it and plumb a check valve to the pcv plug/tap on the manifold.

[i3oricua]

Has anybody looked at the vacuum pump delete for the 2.5, I don't see why I couldn't ditch it and plumb a check valve to the pcv plug/tap on the manifold.I think that the vacuum pump is also connected to the brakes. Don't know if it would be a great idea.

Edgar

[Dpartinvr4]

You put in a check valve like every other car on the road. anytime you're not on the gas you've got vacuum in the manifold.
I think that the vacuum pump is also connected to the brakes. Don't know if it would be a great idea.

Edgar

[Dpartinvr4]

Cam follower after 7k miles with autotech pump internals and golf R cam. 173240173241

[MALMGRDC]

That cam follower looks great!

[Dpartinvr4]

That cam follower looks great!I wasnt sure what to expect with both sides being bigger than stock, but it doesnt appear to be wearing at an abnormal rate. I'll check it again in 14k

[Dpartinvr4]

Looking like a G25-550 and Injectors are next on the list.

[Dpartinvr4]

Rs4 injectors ordered, ie intake manifold to run direct port meth and g25 550 manifold and turbo are next on the list. The k04 is just too damn small. And with how the engine is built, it just makes sense to go big turbo.

[Dpartinvr4]

Slight change in plans, I got a deal on a mambatek chra with the 9 blade turbine and 7+7 compressor. I'm going to see how the 9 blade turbine helps out with the top end flow issues. If this doesn't help then i'll get that g25 550.

[Dpartinvr4]

Should flow much better.176107176108

[i3oricua]

It's pretty. Billet should flow really nice. Is it still a K04 wheel?

Edgar

[Dpartinvr4]

https://shop.mambatek.com/9-7-Turbo-CHRA-AUDI-VW-S3-TT-GOLF-20T-TFSI-K04-064-53049880064-007-0482.htm

As far as I can tell it's this unit, so the wheels are the same size, but I'll be going from a billet 6+6 compressor to a billet 7+7 and from the clipped 12 blade turbine to the 9 blade

[Dpartinvr4]

Ideally this will also tell us if the turbine wheel is the bottleneck or the manifold/turbine housing is choking things.

[canadianA4B7]

Ideally this will also tell us if the turbine wheel is the bottleneck or the manifold/turbine housing is choking things.

Trust me in the turbine size. You’ll see steady boost to 7000 rpm. And wrap the exhaust manifold. Get everything contained and flowing you’ll see really good flow.

I have some tech data on that turbine. It’s also quite a bit lighter then the oem. So all benefits.

[EvolutionArmory]

The housings are. I switched to a CTS K04 and I hit requested boost easier after 6K with less duty cycle then I did with the JHM turbo.


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[Dpartinvr4]

Trust me in the turbine size. You’ll see steady boost to 7000 rpm. And wrap the exhaust manifold. Get everything contained and flowing you’ll see really good flow.

I have some tech data on that turbine. It’s also quite a bit lighter then the oem. So all benefits.I've got everything ceramic coated and the turbo blanket and heat wrapped on the downpipe. I'm hoping this gives me a little bit more up top because it's a lot cheaper than going to the big turbo I want fml

[Dpartinvr4]

What are you requesting vs what are you seeing.
The housings are. I switched to a CTS K04 and I hit requested boost easier after 6K with less duty cycle then I did with the JHM turbo.


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[EvolutionArmory]

JHM boost and N75 graphs.

176214

See the sharp dip at 6500 where the boost falls off from requested?

176215
Here’s the N75 data. 100% at the beginning. The turbo builds boost really well and the N75 is working 100% to get rid of it. I saw 26 PSI spikes regularly. Now look at the end. At 6500 the N75 is climbing to 100% again trying to maintain boost.


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[Dpartinvr4]

What are you requesting vs what are you seeing.
The housings are. I switched to a CTS K04 and I hit requested boost easier after 6K with less duty cycle then I did with the JHM turbo.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Now here is the newest CTS K04 which they claim is not a hybrid.
176218

The high end boost curve is being met.

N75 data
176219

The N75 isn’t working as hard to blow off the overboost at ramp up but the good news is duty cycle is much lower at high RPMS. This tells me that the CTS turbo is probably using true K04 specs where the JHM turbo is using whatever the F they use. I believe the CTS housings are the reasons why my top end is more efficient.

The hybrid wheels will give you quicker spool but your top end will most likely suffer. One big unknown is what spec housings JHM is using. By the way, there’s probably zero benefit to swapping out the JHM CHRA to a Mambatek.


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[EvolutionArmory]

Another thing I can mention that might be useful is I saw no increase in peak MAF switching to CTS. The CTS flows about 270-280 from 6-7K and so does the JHM. The only difference was how efficiently it does it.

I’d hold off on the turbo blanket for now. I’m seeing some crazy high correction factor and I need to see if higher EGT’s are causing the ECU to freak out, if I just got bad gas or if it’s something more serious.

[JLAllroad]

By the way, there’s probably zero benefit to swapping out the JHM CHRA to a Mambatek.


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I don’t know if this can be stated definitively. The housing and shape and configuration of what is spinning inside will determine ultimate flow, not solely one or the other.



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[EvolutionArmory]

I don’t know if this can be stated definitively. The housing and shape and configuration of what is spinning inside will determine ultimate flow, not solely one or the other.



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The JHM wheel is already clipped and fancy. I doubt he’ll see any noticeable gain with the Taiwanese CHRA.


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