Terrible 0-60mph & Quarter Mile Times Even After APR Stage 2 and Custom TCU Tune

[dragrace8]

For some reason my car does not launch/accelerate like it should from a standing start. Here is the story. Last summer I raced my car in some bracket races at Bandimere Speedway in Denver. My car, at the time, was bone stock. 2017 A6 3.0t (simos 16 ecu) premium plus, 7k-12k miles on the odometer. Being bone stock and at 5800 feet altitude, my car ran consistently in the 13.65 to 13.90 range at 102-104mph depending on if the temperature was 55 degrees out or 95 degrees out, humidity, barometric pressure, etc. My technique for launching the car was the same on every run. I put the car in Dynamic mode, shift into Sport mode, turn traction control off, turn the auto shutdown/start off (have this off by default now via VagCom mod), left foot on the brake, right foot mashing the gas (good old fashioned power braking). Once the tree comes down, I take my left foot off the brake and away I go. Oh, and I stage the same way each time as well, thus reducing the variance in my potential rollout to keep my reaction times and elapsed times consistent.

From April to September this worked fine. At the beginning of September I took the car up for a Saturday race. On my first run, I ran 13.72 @ 103.51. Approximately two hours later, I made my second run and ran 14.23 @ 101.43. A full half a second slower even though the temperature only went up 2 degrees and the corrected altitude only went up 500 feet. I automatically assumed I forgot to put the car in sport mode or I left the traction control or something like that. After 40 minutes I made my third run. I double and triple checked everything to make sure I had the correct setup prior to staging the car. This run I ran a 14.25 @ 100.50. Again, a full half a second slower and 3mph down from my initial run (again, there were no drastic changes to the weather or corrected altitude). At this point I started to freak out. Even though I didn’t have any check engine lights, I immediately hooked up my VagCom stuff to scan everything in the car. I was worried I had somehow damaged the transmission, torque converter, something. The scans came back clean. I scanned again the next day, then the next day just to make sure and the scans were all clean. No CEL (or any other warning) ever came on.
Incremental times to compare:
60ft 330’ 660’ 1000’ 1320’
2.144, 5.880, 8.935 @ 80.52, 11.531, 13.720 @ 103.51
2.177, 6.113, 9.312 @ 78.19, 12.000, 14.257 @ 100.50
The 60 foot times aren’t too far apart but the 330’ and eighth mile times there is a huge disparity. Losing 22 hundredths in the first 330 feet, 37 hundredths by half track is just crazy. For the rest of the races I ran in 2018, my car stayed in the 14.11 to 14.30 range. Again, 4 to 5 tenths of a second slower than all the other runs earlier in the year. The car essentially just stopped pulling and making power like it used to. Like some sort of governor was on the car from the get go. Very frustrating.

I logged onto Audizine and searched the forums for others who may have experienced this. I stumbled across the AMAX limit/counter that Audi installs on our cars. After reading all of the AMAX threads, I was pretty confident I had hit the limit of 200 launches and this was my issue. I was no longer freaked out, I knew I would need to get a custom TCU tune to have all the AMAX stuff removed (or at least have the limits raised to a point I would never encounter them again).

Fast forward to April 2019. Car just went over 14k miles. I jumped straight to APR stage 2 with the single supercharger pulley, new NGK plugs, using the 91 octane file, since 91 is the highest we have here in Denver). As for the TCU, I worked with Melen (many of you have worked with him as well) to get my TCU tuned via the HP Tuners software/hardware. He raised my shift points to 7100 (I specifically asked not to go all the way up to the new 7400 redline) and he addressed my AMAX limit/settings. Finally, now my car would be back to the way it was launching before, plus a bunch of new horsepower/torque and RPMs to work with. I was excited to say the least.

I went to a test and tune event at Bandimere towards the end of April. I made a total of 5 runs. The first run at 5:15pm was 13.198 @ 106.81. Disappointing for sure. The second and third runs were throw aways as I tried the car in manual mode instead of sport, and just regular drive mode to see if there was a difference. My fourth run (back to my normal setup and launching technique) at 7:48pm was 13.203 @ 107.04, and the fifth run at 8:47pm was 13.189 @ 107.08. I made 3 runs between 13.18 and 13.20. Nice consistency, but consistently slow, lol. For comparison, under similar weather conditions last year, I ran between 13.70-13.77. There is obviously still something holding my car back. It just doesn’t move in the first 330 feet like it should. I had the HP Tuners logging turned on for each run and during those three aforementioned runs, my 0-60mph time is pretty much right at 5 flat. Even at this mile high altitude there is no way an APR stage 2 single pulley, plus custom TCU tune, should be going 0-60mph in 5 seconds (Any Denver guys able to confirm your 0-60mph times with similar mods/tunes?). I pulled some VagCom logs on some additional runs on a different test and tune night for Melen to take a look at and he didn’t see any smoking gun. My car should be in the 12.70s, 12.80s easily even at this altitude, with the ECU and TCU modifications I’ve done.

Anyone have any idea what is going on here? I have some HP tuner graphs and some VagCom logs if anyone wants to take a look. Oh and it’s not something simple like heat soak (the IATs are fine), I accidentally left 400lbs worth of stuff in my trunk, bad gas (I fill up at the same place with Top Tier gas), tire pressures/spinning the tires (the pressure is only 1lb different this summer to last summer) things like that. Also had the 20k mile check up and oil change in January even though I was only at 13k miles.

My theory is there is a setting(s)/limit(s), either within the ECU or the TCU, that I triggered when I went over my 200 launch limit last summer. Even though APR and Melen flashed my ECU and TCU, respectively, I feel somehow this setting/limit carried over. Anyone else ever experience or heard of anything like this?

Thanks for reading and let me know if you have any ideas/theories.

[Shuga]

Dam just sell the thing. 😂 Can probably get a new 18 for the same price anyhow haha

[AudiTechS4]

does denver get summer and winter gas ?

[Hofahome]

I bet you can get into the 12’s with a better 60ft (1.8) but doubt you would be much faster than 12.7-12.8. Not sure how to get it down but maybe set to higher launch rpm?
I had an S4 up here and can tell you that while the 3.0t is overall a great motor, it is not ideal up here. I had to go dual pulley just to get to 17-18psi, which is horrible compared to the guys at altitude. I never raced but I think my car would have run low 12’s on full e85 with a dual pulley setup.

Lesson: go NOS or get a car with turbos up here


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[Shane Horning]

For some reason my car does not launch/accelerate like it should from a standing start. Here is the story. Last summer I raced my car in some bracket races at Bandimere Speedway in Denver. My car, at the time, was bone stock. 2017 A6 3.0t (simos 16 ecu) premium plus, 7k-12k miles on the odometer. Being bone stock and at 5800 feet altitude, my car ran consistently in the 13.65 to 13.90 range at 102-104mph depending on if the temperature was 55 degrees out or 95 degrees out, humidity, barometric pressure, etc. My technique for launching the car was the same on every run. I put the car in Dynamic mode, shift into Sport mode, turn traction control off, turn the auto shutdown/start off (have this off by default now via VagCom mod), left foot on the brake, right foot mashing the gas (good old fashioned power braking). Once the tree comes down, I take my left foot off the brake and away I go. Oh, and I stage the same way each time as well, thus reducing the variance in my potential rollout to keep my reaction times and elapsed times consistent.

From April to September this worked fine. At the beginning of September I took the car up for a Saturday race. On my first run, I ran 13.72 @ 103.51. Approximately two hours later, I made my second run and ran 14.23 @ 101.43. A full half a second slower even though the temperature only went up 2 degrees and the corrected altitude only went up 500 feet. I automatically assumed I forgot to put the car in sport mode or I left the traction control or something like that. After 40 minutes I made my third run. I double and triple checked everything to make sure I had the correct setup prior to staging the car. This run I ran a 14.25 @ 100.50. Again, a full half a second slower and 3mph down from my initial run (again, there were no drastic changes to the weather or corrected altitude). At this point I started to freak out. Even though I didn’t have any check engine lights, I immediately hooked up my VagCom stuff to scan everything in the car. I was worried I had somehow damaged the transmission, torque converter, something. The scans came back clean. I scanned again the next day, then the next day just to make sure and the scans were all clean. No CEL (or any other warning) ever came on.
Incremental times to compare:
60ft 330’ 660’ 1000’ 1320’
2.144, 5.880, 8.935 @ 80.52, 11.531, 13.720 @ 103.51
2.177, 6.113, 9.312 @ 78.19, 12.000, 14.257 @ 100.50
The 60 foot times aren’t too far apart but the 330’ and eighth mile times there is a huge disparity. Losing 22 hundredths in the first 330 feet, 37 hundredths by half track is just crazy. For the rest of the races I ran in 2018, my car stayed in the 14.11 to 14.30 range. Again, 4 to 5 tenths of a second slower than all the other runs earlier in the year. The car essentially just stopped pulling and making power like it used to. Like some sort of governor was on the car from the get go. Very frustrating.

I logged onto Audizine and searched the forums for others who may have experienced this. I stumbled across the AMAX limit/counter that Audi installs on our cars. After reading all of the AMAX threads, I was pretty confident I had hit the limit of 200 launches and this was my issue. I was no longer freaked out, I knew I would need to get a custom TCU tune to have all the AMAX stuff removed (or at least have the limits raised to a point I would never encounter them again).

Fast forward to April 2019. Car just went over 14k miles. I jumped straight to APR stage 2 with the single supercharger pulley, new NGK plugs, using the 91 octane file, since 91 is the highest we have here in Denver). As for the TCU, I worked with Melen (many of you have worked with him as well) to get my TCU tuned via the HP Tuners software/hardware. He raised my shift points to 7100 (I specifically asked not to go all the way up to the new 7400 redline) and he addressed my AMAX limit/settings. Finally, now my car would be back to the way it was launching before, plus a bunch of new horsepower/torque and RPMs to work with. I was excited to say the least.

I went to a test and tune event at Bandimere towards the end of April. I made a total of 5 runs. The first run at 5:15pm was 13.198 @ 106.81. Disappointing for sure. The second and third runs were throw aways as I tried the car in manual mode instead of sport, and just regular drive mode to see if there was a difference. My fourth run (back to my normal setup and launching technique) at 7:48pm was 13.203 @ 107.04, and the fifth run at 8:47pm was 13.189 @ 107.08. I made 3 runs between 13.18 and 13.20. Nice consistency, but consistently slow, lol. For comparison, under similar weather conditions last year, I ran between 13.70-13.77. There is obviously still something holding my car back. It just doesn’t move in the first 330 feet like it should. I had the HP Tuners logging turned on for each run and during those three aforementioned runs, my 0-60mph time is pretty much right at 5 flat. Even at this mile high altitude there is no way an APR stage 2 single pulley, plus custom TCU tune, should be going 0-60mph in 5 seconds (Any Denver guys able to confirm your 0-60mph times with similar mods/tunes?). I pulled some VagCom logs on some additional runs on a different test and tune night for Melen to take a look at and he didn’t see any smoking gun. My car should be in the 12.70s, 12.80s easily even at this altitude, with the ECU and TCU modifications I’ve done.

Anyone have any idea what is going on here? I have some HP tuner graphs and some VagCom logs if anyone wants to take a look. Oh and it’s not something simple like heat soak (the IATs are fine), I accidentally left 400lbs worth of stuff in my trunk, bad gas (I fill up at the same place with Top Tier gas), tire pressures/spinning the tires (the pressure is only 1lb different this summer to last summer) things like that. Also had the 20k mile check up and oil change in January even though I was only at 13k miles.

My theory is there is a setting(s)/limit(s), either within the ECU or the TCU, that I triggered when I went over my 200 launch limit last summer. Even though APR and Melen flashed my ECU and TCU, respectively, I feel somehow this setting/limit carried over. Anyone else ever experience or heard of anything like this?

Thanks for reading and let me know if you have any ideas/theories.Is your car going into amax mode forsure? I always launched like that when stock but when I went dual pulley and trans tune it doesn't go into max mode if I brake load with kick down button compressed. I have to pressurize at half throttle and wait until 15mph or so to hold wot to get max mode. I know it sounds like bs but that's how it seems for me.

[dorothy_c7]

I believe the supercharger can't match the power of the engine after doing various engine and exhaust mods. I've been wondering about this lately. It's getting a lot warmer so I copped a Merc Racing H.E. for heat soaking. Great quality, going to install in a week or so. Anyways I'm thinking it's an air to fuel ratio problem. I.E has made a wider throttle body to match with the ECU. If they develope a TCU tune I will definitely be looking even more into getting the tune.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Faceman76]

It could be heat soak. I would also try adding a splash of race fuel to make sure timing isn't being pulled unnecessarily.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Upstate Audi]

I think I read somewhere that with the HPtuners TCU tune, you need to raise the launch limit before you hit it. If you hit it before you raise it then you lose it forever. I'm not positive though so take this with a grain of salt..

[15 Phantom S6]

Your times sound about right, your 60' times are horrible. What tires are you running? I think you need to pay attention to traction as 2.X 60' times are crap and need to be improved to get the best time your car can do. I don't think there's anything wrong with your car, 107mph is a high 12 second car with traction... Get your 60' times to sub 2 seconds and you'll be in the 12's..

[Hofahome]

Your times sound about right, your 60' times are horrible. What tires are you running? I think you need to pay attention to traction as 2.X 60' times are crap and need to be improved to get the best time your car can do. I don't think there's anything wrong with your car, 107mph is a high 12 second car with traction... Get your 60' times to sub 2 seconds and you'll be in the 12's..

This


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[dragrace8]

does denver get summer and winter gas ?

Possibly, I'm not sure. But back to my bone stock example, I had the same gas in the car in September when I ran 13.72, then two hours later (so I know heat soak is not a factor) I ran 14.23. So I don't believe fuel (or heat soak) is a factor.

[dragrace8]

Is your car going into amax mode forsure? I always launched like that when stock but when I went dual pulley and trans tune it doesn't go into max mode if I brake load with kick down button compressed. I have to pressurize at half throttle and wait until 15mph or so to hold wot to get max mode. I know it sounds like bs but that's how it seems for me.

According to the logs I sent to Melen, he says it is. At least at the 3/4 shift, I'm not so sure about the 1/2, and 2/3 shifts.

I'm not sure what "kick down button" is. Do you have an S model maybe?

[dragrace8]

I think I read somewhere that with the HPtuners TCU tune, you need to raise the launch limit before you hit it. If you hit it before you raise it then you lose it forever. I'm not positive though so take this with a grain of salt..

This might be it. Any links to where you read this? My launch limit was increased via the HP Tuner software, but since I had already hit the limit, it might not have made a difference. IF this ends up being true, and I truly have lost it forever once that limit has been hit, talk about a major letdown. This would be absolutely terrible if it is in fact true.

[dragrace8]

Your times sound about right, your 60' times are horrible. What tires are you running? I think you need to pay attention to traction as 2.X 60' times are crap and need to be improved to get the best time your car can do. I don't think there's anything wrong with your car, 107mph is a high 12 second car with traction... Get your 60' times to sub 2 seconds and you'll be in the 12's..

I have the stock pirelli zeros (with the 20" rims, which of course increases my rollout and should make my 60' times even better). Traction is not the issue. At this altitude I don't make enough power to blow the tires off, especially with AWD. Plus, Bandimere is one of the best prepped tracks in the country. Just to be sure, I've had my dad video my launches to see if there was any spin (there isn't), and I tried launching with Traction Control on and off just to see if there was a difference and there wasn't.

To your point though, with 107, 108 trap speed I should be in the 12s for sure which is why this is so frustrating.

[Shane Horning]

This might be it. Any links to where you read this? My launch limit was increased via the HP Tuner software, but since I had already hit the limit, it might not have made a difference. IF this ends up being true, and I truly have lost it forever once that limit has been hit, talk about a major letdown. This would be absolutely terrible if it is in fact true.No its possible to get amax back after you hit the limit. Been there done that

[Shane Horning]

According to the logs I sent to Melen, he says it is. At least at the 3/4 shift, I'm not so sure about the 1/2, and 2/3 shifts.

I'm not sure what "kick down button" is. Do you have an S model maybe?No I have a c7 a6. It's the button under the accelerator pedal that gives full power and down shifts when in manual mode.

[p3u]

Your performance seems way off. I know other in Colorado running faster on similar setups.

[dragrace8]

No its possible to get amax back after you hit the limit. Been there done that

Maybe Audi made some changes when they rolled out the Simos 16 platform?

Are there any others out there who have the Simos 16 ECU that have hit the limit then by getting a ECU or TCU tune have gotten all of their performance back?

[p3u]

Maybe Audi made some changes when they rolled out the Simos 16 platform?

Are there any others out there who have the Simos 16 ECU that have hit the limit then by getting a ECU or TCU tune have gotten all of their performance back?

The ECU plays no role in AMAX limit. Purely on the TCU end.

[dragrace8]

Your performance seems way off. I know other in Colorado running faster on similar setups.

Yep, when I was bone stock I lost 4 or 5 tenths of a second off my quarter mile time the instant I hit the limit. I'm pretty sure I'm still 4 or 5 tenths off of where I should be post upgrades. p3u, are you aware of any other restricting/limiting settings within the TCU besides the AMAX setting I might be up against? Have you tuned any other Simos 16 version cars that were known to have hit the limit prior to getting your custom TCU tune?

[p3u]

Is your car going into amax mode forsure? I always launched like that when stock but when I went dual pulley and trans tune it doesn't go into max mode if I brake load with kick down button compressed. I have to pressurize at half throttle and wait until 15mph or so to hold wot to get max mode. I know it sounds like bs but that's how it seems for me.

You shouldn't have to do part throttle and wait to engage AMAX. You should be able to power brake WOT and enable it.

[Shane Horning]

You shouldn't have to do part throttle and wait to engage AMAX. You should be able to power brake WOT and enable it.That's how it was stock and I'm sure it should work like that. I want to log the trans and mabe I'll figure out why it won't go max mode when wot at standstill

[p3u]

That's how it was stock and I'm sure it should work like that. I want to log the trans and mabe I'll figure out why it won't go max mode when wot at standstill

Mine worked that way stock and with tune. That would be frustrating to deal with trying to modulate throttle and timing to engage AMAX.

[dragrace8]

- - - Updated - - -


That's how it was stock and I'm sure it should work like that. I want to log the trans and mabe I'll figure out why it won't go max mode when wot at standstill

Lol, sounds like you hit the limit just like I did and now, from a standstill, the car just doesn't move like it did before. Lol, we might have the same problem.

[Shane Horning]

Mine worked that way stock and with tune. That would be frustrating to deal with trying to modulate throttle and timing to engage AMAX.It definitely is frustrating lol. Makes it a lot harder to get consistent 60fts

[dragrace8]

The ECU plays no role in AMAX limit. Purely on the TCU end.

I want to agree with you (and Melen) but if the AMAX setting is increased to a super high number in the custom TCU tune so the limit will never be hit again, yet the car still launches slow as hell, doesn't that mean there must be another setting either in the TCU or in the ECU that is holding the car back?

[p3u]

I want to agree with you (and Melen) but if the AMAX setting is increased to a super high number in the custom TCU tune so the limit will never be hit again, yet the car still launches slow as hell, doesn't that mean there must be another setting either in the TCU or in the ECU that is holding the car back?

TCU is a sandbox for what the engine does, so the issue is on on your TCU end.

65,568 AMAX launches is the max limit on a 2017 year when changed, so the issue is elsewhere in the tuning.

[rockooo315]

Hey man,

I race at Bandimere with my 2013 S6. I vaguely remember your runs as there aren't too many Audi's at the event (other than that blue RS3 that runs low 11's and a couple of Audi TTs). If you wanna meet up during future events to throw around some ideas for better launches or even to race, let me know.


Zach

[GetsomeA6]

I just had a APR stage 2 (SC pully) done Friday and planned on going to Bandimere this Wednesday but the weather looks like rain. I'm pretty sure I saw you run last week and remember low 13's and was hoping your A6 was stock. So far I've been unimpressed with my tune but have little else to go on besides the butt dyno. 2013 C7 A6 Prestige.

[15 Phantom S6]

I have the stock pirelli zeros (with the 20" rims, which of course increases my rollout and should make my 60' times even better). Traction is not the issue. At this altitude I don't make enough power to blow the tires off, especially with AWD. Plus, Bandimere is one of the best prepped tracks in the country. Just to be sure, I've had my dad video my launches to see if there was any spin (there isn't), and I tried launching with Traction Control on and off just to see if there was a difference and there wasn't.

To your point though, with 107, 108 trap speed I should be in the 12s for sure which is why this is so frustrating.

You mention traction is not the issue, but you've posted 60' times in the 2 second range which is horrible for an AWD car with traction. If you actually do have traction, then whatever reason you can't pull of 1.X 60' times is where you need to look.

I doubt you'll be able to break into the 12's on your set-up with no changes without dropping your 60' times lower than 2 seconds. Your car is AWD but getting RWD 60' times..

Not discounting the other things you may need to fix that you're looking into, but a good 60' time will be a good 1/4 mile time and 2.1+ 60' time is holding you back.

[dragrace8]

Hey man,

I race at Bandimere with my 2013 S6. I vaguely remember your runs as there aren't too many Audi's at the event (other than that blue RS3 that runs low 11's and a couple of Audi TTs). If you wanna meet up during future events to throw around some ideas for better launches or even to race, let me know.


Zach

Sounds good Zach. I'm at the track quite a bit during the summer so feel free to say hey the next time you see me.

[dragrace8]

I just had a APR stage 2 (SC pully) done Friday and planned on going to Bandimere this Wednesday but the weather looks like rain. I'm pretty sure I saw you run last week and remember low 13's and was hoping your A6 was stock. So far I've been unimpressed with my tune but have little else to go on besides the butt dyno. 2013 C7 A6 Prestige.

Now this is interesting, GetsomeA6. Is your TCU still stock? I would really like to see your incremental times, especially if we're up there on the same day. I was looking at Wednesday night as well so I could pull some logs to send to APR but I'm not sure the weather is going to cooperate. I attached a picture of me and my car, so if this was the car you saw, then yep, it was me.

[dragrace8]

You mention traction is not the issue, but you've posted 60' times in the 2 second range which is horrible for an AWD car with traction. If you actually do have traction, then whatever reason you can't pull of 1.X 60' times is where you need to look.

I doubt you'll be able to break into the 12's on your set-up with no changes without dropping your 60' times lower than 2 seconds. Your car is AWD but getting RWD 60' times..

Not discounting the other things you may need to fix that you're looking into, but a good 60' time will be a good 1/4 mile time and 2.1+ 60' time is holding you back.

Yep I agree with you Phantom. I've been in and around drag racing my whole life so I fully understand how important good 60 foot times are to putting up a good elapsed time. Here are the incremental numbers from my two runs on Friday night:
2.031, 5.608, 8.517 @ 84.47, 11.002, 13.093 @ 108.00
2.013, 5.587, 8.492 @ 84.95, 10.973, 13.059 @ 108.xx

Another reason I know traction isn't a problem, is because my car goes 0-60mph in 5 flat regardless of where I'm at. At a stop light, a highway on ramp, Bandimere, it doesn't matter. I've logged using both the vag com and the HP Tuner programs and if I'm at a standing start, it takes the car 5 seconds to get to 60mph. And this is even with a custom TCU tune that is shifting at 7100 instead of the stock 6200! The car just doesn't move from a standing start like it should. It feels like there is a restrictor plate or governor which is only allowing the car to utilize 75% or 80% of its power and the 0-60 time of 5 flat pretty much confirms it.

[GetsomeA6]

Now this is interesting, GetsomeA6. Is your TCU still stock? I would really like to see your incremental times, especially if we're up there on the same day. I was looking at Wednesday night as well so I could pull some logs to send to APR but I'm not sure the weather is going to cooperate. I attached a picture of me and my car, so if this was the car you saw, then yep, it was me.

We were spectating with some friends and I was eyeballing the Audi's and especially your A6 since I was looking for a baseline for what it might run stock and after the tune. You looked pretty grumpy heading back to line so I decided to not go talk but if you saw a fat bald guy with tattoo's eyeballing you, that was me. I have no TCU at this point and depending on how it runs I'll either have the APR removed and go with GIAC, or stay with the APR and add the UC. I'm still pissy about not being able to map 100 and 104 octane.

[krwalkman]

Yep I agree with you Phantom. I've been in and around drag racing my whole life so I fully understand how important good 60 foot times are to putting up a good elapsed time. Here are the incremental numbers from my two runs on Friday night:
2.031, 5.608, 8.517 @ 84.47, 11.002, 13.093 @ 108.00
2.013, 5.587, 8.492 @ 84.95, 10.973, 13.059 @ 108.xx

Another reason I know traction isn't a problem, is because my car goes 0-60mph in 5 flat regardless of where I'm at. At a stop light, a highway on ramp, Bandimere, it doesn't matter. I've logged using both the vag com and the HP Tuner programs and if I'm at a standing start, it takes the car 5 seconds to get to 60mph. And this is even with a custom TCU tune that is shifting at 7100 instead of the stock 6200! The car just doesn't move from a standing start like it should. It feels like there is a restrictor plate or governor which is only allowing the car to utilize 75% or 80% of its power and the 0-60 time of 5 flat pretty much confirms it.

Hey Drag Race, have you figured out your issue with you A6 in a quarter yet? I recently started a thread with the exact same issues on my A6 and first noticed them at bandimere after going stage 2 and getting between 13.7 and 14.2. My numbers and mods are almost identical to yours. I especially struggle in the low end, cannot get my 60' below 2 seconds and my 0-60 to less than 4. With these mods I should definitely be less than 2 and under 4. I know the DA is rough at bandimere when it's warm out and maybe our cars are more sensitive to heat with the mods.

So far I can only attribute it to heat soak. I cannot launch my car when it gets above 85 degrees or so and when I have run it hard once or for more than 20 minutes of driving. On a cool morning I took it out with my Dragy and got 12.8 second quarter, but my 0-60 was still over 4 and only got 3 runs in before my launch control stopped working and the car felt bogged.

When ran for 25 minutes or so, or spirited for 10, I can tell it is then bogged down and much slower than it should be. My car is in the shop today at Berg for the third time (since I trust them) with them trying to help address the issue. Check out my signature, pretty much the same mods and all. At this point I am wondering if maybe the pump for the coolant isn't circulating fast enough with all of the extra capacity introduced with the heat exchanger. I am thinking of upgrading the pump as it appears P3U did and hoping that addresses the issue. Berg is also going to route some air from the front to the heat exchanger in hopes of forcing more air in. On that note, I wonder if a Honeycomb open grille would help...

[IowaRS7]

Correct me if I am wrong, but in all my runs, AMAX had no impact on my 60ft, but had profound impact at 1/8 and 1/4. AMAX only impacts fuel and timing at shift points, so it would have no impact at launch correct? Was the torque converter settings changed at all to impact launch rpm and boost with the TCU tune? There is mention of IATs and heat but any logging of trans temps? If the trans is getting too hot could that impact how the ECU responds?

[krwalkman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but in all my runs, AMAX had no impact on my 60ft, but had profound impact at 1/8 and 1/4. AMAX only impacts fuel and timing at shift points, so it would have no impact at launch correct? Was the torque converter settings changed at all to impact launch rpm and boost with the TCU tune? There is mention of IATs and heat but any logging of trans temps? If the trans is getting too hot could that impact how the ECU responds?

To be honest I wouldn't be sure on that. I know that the torque converter settings were adjusted for the launch by the TCU tune. I have not logged trans temps. I will look into getting this done. I never thought about the trans getting too hot. The car bogs down so quickly I didn't think it could be related to that.

[RSLRS71]

did you try the "driver mod' yet?

[krwalkman]

did you try the "driver mod' yet?

Haha Oh man, we got a funny one here. [down]

[dragrace8]

Hello krwalkman. No unfortunately, I still have the issue. But, my issue began when the car was completely stock so I don't think we're completely apples to apples here. For you, and anyone else new who might be reading this thread, I want to make sure my back story is fully understood. In 2018, I made over 100 quarter mile passes at Bandimere from April until the end of August. The car was completely bone stock. During these 100+ runs my E.T.s were between 13.64 and 13.98 depending on whether it was 50 degrees and almost midnight, or if it was 101 degrees during the middle of the day. I never once ran into issues even when hot lapping the car. In fact, at one event at the end of July, I made runs at 2:03pm, 2:15, 2:38, 2:48, 3:12, 3:32, 3:38, 3:53, 4:01, and finally 4:09pm, and all of them were between 13:84 and 13:90. Extremely consistent and I never had any heat soak, or tranny, or torque converter overheating problems.
From Labor Day through October I made 40 runs at Bandimere. The E.T.s were 14.11 through 14.30. The car had slowed nearly a half a second (and 2-3mph) from similar weather and density altitude conditions earlier in the year. Scanned it several times with Vag Com (believe me several times), no errors, no CEL, no smoking gun. My tires didn't just all of a sudden go bald. Bandimere didn't forget how to prepare a track. I didn't forget how to stage and race a car. I didn't have bad gas. I didn't change tires, thus affecting roll out. Everything was exactly the same yet my car was 5 tenths and 2-3mph slower.

All of the above happened while I was completely bone stock. I started reading in the Audizine threads about AMAX and thought maybe that's what happened. I read the AMAX threshold was 200. With all of the quarter mile runs I made it made sense I probably hit the 200 limit. I thought going to APR stage 2 (single pulley) with a custom TCU tune (raising the AMAX limit and moving shift points to 7000, (performed by Melen)) would clear all of this up and return my car back to normal. But it didn't. Sure the car is quicker and faster now as I run 13.0s to 13.40 (again, depending on weather and density altitude), but it's still a half a second slow. It should be running 12.60-13.00.

Whatever limit/threshold/governor/restrictor plate I hit when the car was completely bone stock has carried over post ECU and TCU upgrades.

[GetsomeA6]

Hello krwalkman. No unfortunately, I still have the issue. But, my issue began when the car was completely stock so I don't think we're completely apples to apples here. For you, and anyone else new who might be reading this thread, I want to make sure my back story is fully understood. In 2018, I made over 100 quarter mile passes at Bandimere from April until the end of August. The car was completely bone stock. During these 100+ runs my E.T.s were between 13.64 and 13.98 depending on whether it was 50 degrees and almost midnight, or if it was 101 degrees during the middle of the day. I never once ran into issues even when hot lapping the car. In fact, at one event at the end of July, I made runs at 2:03pm, 2:15, 2:38, 2:48, 3:12, 3:32, 3:38, 3:53, 4:01, and finally 4:09pm, and all of them were between 13:84 and 13:90. Extremely consistent and I never had any heat soak, or tranny, or torque converter overheating problems.
From Labor Day through October I made 40 runs at Bandimere. The E.T.s were 14.11 through 14.30. The car had slowed nearly a half a second (and 2-3mph) from similar weather and density altitude conditions earlier in the year. Scanned it several times with Vag Com (believe me several times), no errors, no CEL, no smoking gun. My tires didn't just all of a sudden go bald. Bandimere didn't forget how to prepare a track. I didn't forget how to stage and race a car. I didn't have bad gas. I didn't change tires, thus affecting roll out. Everything was exactly the same yet my car was 5 tenths and 2-3mph slower.

All of the above happened while I was completely bone stock. I started reading in the Audizine threads about AMAX and thought maybe that's what happened. I read the AMAX threshold was 200. With all of the quarter mile runs I made it made sense I probably hit the 200 limit. I thought going to APR stage 2 (single pulley) with a custom TCU tune (raising the AMAX limit and moving shift points to 7000, (performed by Melen)) would clear all of this up and return my car back to normal. But it didn't. Sure the car is quicker and faster now as I run 13.0s to 13.40 (again, depending on weather and density altitude), but it's still a half a second slow. It should be running 12.60-13.00.

Whatever limit/threshold/governor/restrictor plate I hit when the car was completely bone stock has carried over post ECU and TCU upgrades.


I raced last night and I'm having a hard time getting past 13.5 with an APR stage II (SC only) but I had it floored and was only getting around 2500RPM's at launch and would not go past that so I'm looking hard at the P3U tranny tune. I'll post my slips later tonight when I stop messing with the VCDS I got today.

[IowaRS7]

However, you made changes to the TCU beyond increasing the launch counter correct? Maybe you should flash it back to stock with only a change to that limiter and nothing else to see what happens.

[dragrace8]

I raced last night and I'm having a hard time getting past 13.5 with an APR stage II (SC only) but I had it floored and was only getting around 2500RPM's at launch and would not go past that so I'm looking hard at the P3U tranny tune. I'll post my slips later tonight when I stop messing with the VCDS I got today.

Yeah the tranny tune will make a difference. APR's dyno graph shows top power happening around 7000 RPMs so having the car shift at 6400 with the stock tcu is robbing some of the power. Also, make sure you shallow stage as much as possible. The extra rollout with 20 inch rims makes a big difference on my car.

[dragrace8]

However, you made changes to the TCU beyond increasing the launch counter correct? Maybe you should flash it back to stock with only a change to that limiter and nothing else to see what happens.

I see where you're going with this IowaRS7. Only change the one variable and then test instead of changing many. But, I'm launching now at 2800 instead of the stock 2500. I'm shifting at 7100 RPMs instead of the stock 6400, all in an effort to compliment the APR stage 2 tune. I suppose I could ask the guy who programmed the TCU upgrade (Melen) to set everything to stock except for the AMAX limit but I'm quite doubtful it will resolve the problem. With the lower launch RPMs and shifting at 6400 instead of 7100 I'm fairly certain the car would be even slower.

[fixedhat313]

I haven't read the whole thread but the title intrigued me so I'll share my experience. I started with 91 from EPL and SC pulley. I was extremely disappointed to see high 5's and even low 6's 0-60 clocked by recording on a 60fps camera. Then I decided I would go out of my way to get 93 gas so I could install the 93 tune. I immediately felt a pull that I had not felt before and clocked a 4.8 using the camera method. I got a Dragy and clocked a 4.34 as my latest and 4.55 as the highest.

[IowaRS7]

I see where you're going with this IowaRS7. Only change the one variable and then test instead of changing many. But, I'm launching now at 2800 instead of the stock 2500. I'm shifting at 7100 RPMs instead of the stock 6400, all in an effort to compliment the APR stage 2 tune. I suppose I could ask the guy who programmed the TCU upgrade (Melen) to set everything to stock except for the AMAX limit but I'm quite doubtful it will resolve the problem. With the lower launch RPMs and shifting at 6400 instead of 7100 I'm fairly certain the car would be even slower.

One would assume those changes would help for sure, but I am just proposing a scientific method to determine what if anything could be impacting the issue. The part that really intrigues me is the 60ft results. I have launched my car several times with pretty consistent 60ft times and not all runs did I engage AMAX, so my 1/8 and 1/4 mile were greatly impacted. I could be wrong but I really do not think AMAX impacts the 60ft time, which makes me really wonder what is going on with your results. Maybe you are spinning a bit and can't really tell because its not significant, but enough to give you the results you are seeing? Maybe with the increased launch rpm you are not brake boosting enough, and launching with less boost built up? I know you mentioned your 1/4 times went down when stock, but what were your 60ft times from run to run even after the change in results? Were they still consistent? Have your 60ft times only changed since the additional mods and TCU tune?

[GetsomeA6]

Best time from Wednesday.
R/T .126
60' 2.07
330 5.766
1/8 8.796
1/4 13.566
MPH 103.95

135617

[GetsomeA6]

https://s1378.photobucket.com/user/Getsome68/media/20190809_144058_zps0nvkt0jq.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

[4.2 prototype]

I don't have much to add to this issue other than I'm wondering if the mechanical side of things might be taking a toll, maybe the cats hate life now or maybe a small boost leak.

Other than that it's time to shove more air in and out at that DA lol. Porting/TB/DP time! I'd also take some weight out of the wheels and get a lightweight/sticky tire set for the track since you're there all the time.

[krwalkman]

So, as I posted before I too was having these same issues.

I finally got my 60' down and was able to get some decent times this last wednesday. I didn't keep my timeslips, but by the end of the night my best run was 12.688 at 110.8. My 60' was 1.84something. I was always having the issue of a slow start and it was killing my quarter time.
As we know, our cars are super sensitive to heat through the intake. I let my car really cool off between runs and when I first arrived and the slowest run I had was 12.833 with a 1.9something 60'. The Density Altitude for these runs, at the lowest (around 8:45 PM), were 9200'.

For the record before this, I went and couldn't get my times under 13.8 with all the same mods. The only thing that has changed since, is the supercharger oil. I had Berg just take a look at it and swap it just case, and they said plenty of oil came out, and it looked to be fine, then filled it with new oil. One other thing I did since my last trip to the drag strip was run a can of sea foam in through the throttle body to clean the valves in case that was an issue. I exhausted a bunch of smoke with that and I didn't NOTICE a difference, but maybe it helped.

Dragrace, we discussed this before and I know your car was in the shop, but let's go when you're up and running. I am thinking it is just the heat for you still. last week I bought the CWA-100 pump to replace the factory one and circulate coolant a bit faster with the heat exchanger and I am hoping that makes a difference too once I have it installed. Berg was telling me that for our cars we need a good way to force air through our heat excchangers since we have them essentially double stacked and it isn't allowing efficient air flow. They suggested an additional electric fan if the pump doesn't do enough. After that the only options are water-meth kit and/or killer chiller.

[Patrick Matte]

where did you buy the P3U TUNE ? Thanks :)

[krwalkman]

where did you buy the P3U TUNE ? Thanks :)

Hey Dolphin, P3U is a user here on Audizine, you can send him a message and he should get back to you and tell you what he needs. You will need an HP Tuners MPVI2 and 4 credits from HP Tuners to get this done. The rest I am sure he will fill you in with.